My tries at raising maroon clownfish

[mako56]

Well here goes first I got ahold of some clouded acrylic and made a 12 gallon tank. I thought I would use clouded because it seemed like most of you covered the side up any ways. For my first couple tries I am going to use Mike Reeds dry no bs fry food and see what happens. I got some jugs to do the green water and rot thing but I figured I would try this first. My clowns lay eggs every two or three weeks so I hope I will have allot of chances to get this right. Heres a pic of the tank.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_0364.jpg

[mako56]

I haven't gotten the fish to lay there eggs on a tile or something I can remove so it wait till they hatch and try to fish them out. heres a pic of the eggs the night of the hatch.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/JustBeforeHatching2.jpg

I was a little fired up that night and was checking on them more than I should of I think and might of caused them to hatch different than normal. My big lights go out at 11:00 pm and the blue ones at 12:00 AM. At 1:00 AM I shut down the circulation in the tank and turned on a night light at the top of the tank and waited. 2:00 AM and no babies so I turned off the light and tuned the circulation back on. I checked every fifteen minutes and at 3:30 AM I seen the first ones and shut everything down again and turned the light back on. I caught about a dozen or so and there were allot of eggs left so I turned the light off again and waited some more. After all said and done it was 5:00 AM before I gave up I got about 30 babies there were allot of eggs left but nothing more was happening. Heres a pic of one of the newly hatched babies.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/JustHatched.jpg

[Kathy55g]

Awesome!

[SEA YOU LATER]

Hi Mike, told you I'd be here I'm really looking forward to this thread. Keep up the good work and good luck. Mike L

[mako56]

Well heres day 1

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day1Small.jpg

Only 8 left.

[SEA YOU LATER]

nice pic what are you feed them the dry food or the rots?

[mako56]

Trying the dry food for the fist couple times gota give it a chance. I don't really expect to get this for a while but I am not giving up till I do. After a few tries I will do the rot thing.

[SEA YOU LATER]

Just keep at it and you'll get it, good luck again.

[DebsSisterFlo]

Good luck!!!

[spk]

Mike,

Glad to see that you took the plunge.
Things are really looking great.

Those pics of yours are great and I like the concept of the cloudy tank. That is really a cool idea.

Keep the pics and updates coming.

Good luck and looking forward to this journey with you.

Steve

[Kathy55g]

Hey Mike,
Nice Thread!
Who is Mike Reed?

[chungsl]

very nice and fine pic of your maroon baby, thx.
i also had a spwaning pair of maroon but gave a friend.
i hadn't ever raised them before because i knew nothing about breeding.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/14073maroon_eggs.jpg

[DebsSisterFlo]

that is a very nice picture and that is a gorgeous fish!

[mako56]

Thanks everyone.

Wow I never seen one with white stripes before cool pic chungs!.

Kathy he is a guy I order my fish food from he sells regular stuff like krill and myst just about anything but he is experimenting all the time with fish foods of his own. Haven't really sat down and figured out yet if its cheaper than buying it local because of shipping charges it might work out to be pretty close.

[SEA YOU LATER]

Mike can you see them eating it?

[mako56]

Well doesn't really pay because the first try is a flop now. Only one is left at the start of the third day and he didn't make it either but here is a pic of the second day there were six on that day. Waiting to try again.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day2Small.jpg


Its hard to say See Ya Later it looked like they were eating I need to get some kind of magnifying glass maybe to see it.

[RCS]

You should be able to see their guts filled with food if they're eating. That last picture looks like the larva hasn't eaten anything at all.

[mako56]

Well just looked in the tank and
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/JustLayedSmall.jpg

Now its try two I guess. I think this time I will try with fresh made water last time I use my tank water.

I will have to try and focus on there bellies next time RCS thanks for the info I will looking for that now. These two are egg laying fools so It looks like I will be getting lots of practice.

[ediaz]

I don't think the tank being white is going to work

Ed

[Fishboy42]

You sure? Some of mine are grey, and the fish don't seem to mind (have some GSM fry in one now). Even clear tanks work ok when I'm in a pinch and all larval tanks are full.

Awesome pictures Mike. I look forward to seeing your progress with these egg-laying fools! Once you get the rots in the picture, I think you'll be all set.

-Matt

[ediaz]

Clear might be okay, but the way white plexi glass reflects the light might be a problem.

We never had much succes when raising clownfish in light blue tanks, dark colors were preffered. The larvae just stuck to the sides and die, yields were low.


Ed

[Fishboy42]

Ah, ok, thanks Edgar, swimming at the sides isn't exactly ideal.

Mike, if you consider another tank, it's easy & cheap to paint a 10g white on bottom and dark on the sides (or even just construction paper) if you were to consider using something like this.

[ediaz]

Anything it's possible Matt,

I have a friend who pairs up fish in less than 10 gal. and other that raises larvae in glass uncovered tanks with no algae in the water. But that is not the norm. Since our friend here is having total loses you have to eliminate all variables affecting the hatch to get to the cause of mortalities.

Ed

[Fishboy42]

Yes, understood. I've raised ocellaris larvae in pickle jars before, but I wouldn't recommend it to...anyone! I wish I did take some pictures though...

[RCS]

Hey Matt, let me know when you have some GSM ready to go...my female is in desperate need of a male.

[Kathy55g]

You may wish to try the rotifers. Order some from Reed mariculture, and some of their rotifer diet, follow the directions, and you will have lots of rotifers very easily. it is very easy to feed rotifers, and it is really an appropriate food for the newly hatched larvae.

[Atticus]

Originally posted by mako56
Trying the dry food for the fist couple times gota give it a chance. I don't really expect to get this for a while but I am not giving up till I do. After a few tries I will do the rot thing.

I agree with Edgar that the white tank will make hunting rots more difficult. What makes it even more difficult is the complete lack of rotifers all together. :D

Maroons are not a species I would suggest straying from rotifers. If anything you should be looking for S strain rotifers as maroons are one of the smallest fry and can be very difficult to feed. My money is on improper food being the #1 reason for die offs. Get the food issue taken care of and then see if the white container will work.

[mako56]

WOW cool lots of imput THANKS. The tank is clouded because I got the acrylic thinking it was clear and when I got it home got ready to put it together to my surprise it was the cloudy type. I don't have anthing but time stuck in it so its no big deal to change it. They did spend allot of time on the sides. So the bottom should be white? I will just get some more acrylic and whip up another tank. Kinda looks lie the next hatch day will be when I am on night shift so chances are I will miss this one too. I gota come up with a piece of tile or something too. And I will be getting some rots maybe the dry food good when they get a little older.

[chungsl]

i also had tried dry food(cyclopeeze)as first food for oc. clown but total loss.
then use newly hatched bbs as first food, 25% survivial.
but i think day 0 maroon baby's month is too small to accept newly hatched bbs.

[Atticus]

Studies have shown black or cardboard colored sides have a higher fry survival rate. White actually scored the worst as the rotifers were hard for the fry to spot against it.

Your dry food will be a great addition around day 14 or later. By then there should be a few large enough to take it. Make sure to practice hatching baby brine as they will be vital for at least a week.

[spk]

Mike,

That is harsh about being on nights when the next lot hatch. How often are they spawning?

Steve

[mako56]

Thanks for that Atticus I will make a new tank gota have the best chances I can. Wow day 14 not to good for day one then there are two sizes the small stuff says between 100 and 200 microns.

And for rots next week I will be trying them also what do you suggest Kathy the kit for $75.00?

Steve they lay eggs at least two time a month and sometimes three.

[Fishboy42]

If you are looking for rots, you may want to check out aquaculturestore.com. They even have a very affordable kit with some needed materials (like a rot strainer) included. Nothing fancy, but it works for me. HTH

[mako56]

Well I built a new tank and covered it with black plastic. Got the rot thing going (lots to learn about this yet).:rolleye1:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_0447.jpg

Heres Ma and Pa with the eggs.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_0460.jpg

[rogerwells]

keep us posted on how it goes...i was also thinking of breeding maroon clowns

[SEA YOU LATER]

Yeah, keep us posted this should be very interesting and I wish you good luck. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!

[mako56]

Well looks like tonight is the night again but I will have to fish out as many as I can because they didn't like my tile this time. I hope I have enough rots. When they first started I could see them really good under the microscope but now what I see are just tiny little dots moving around. I am thinking these are babies but I never did this before so I am not sure. Going to put some in with the baby clowns any way they should be small enough.:eek1:

[mako56]

Well they hatched and I caught about 50 or so I would guess took some more pics (like they wouldn't be the same) but I will check them out tomorrow and maybe post them.:dance: :celeb2: Now we will see how long these live.

[Kathy55g]

Good luck!

[mako56]

Here are the pics for this batch.

Eggs just before hatching.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/EggsCroppedSmall.jpg

A little bigger.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/EggsCropped1Small.jpg

Babies just hatched.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/JustHatched1.jpg

A little more from the side.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/JustHatched2.jpg

[SEA YOU LATER]

good luck raising them dude.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/mlawrencemsc/ani_banner011.gif

[1jared1]

I had a question for everyone. I have been reading a lot of threads on raising clownfish and I've noticed that most, if not everyone waits until the fry hatch and then collect them. I was wondering why?

I had a pair of Maroon and a pair of Ocellaris clowns that were spawning in the same 55 gallon tank at the same time. I use to take the tile out that they would lay the eggs on and put it into a 10 gallon tank to hatch them (on the night of the hatch). I was wondering why more people don't do it this way. Which is the better way?

[mako56]

Hey 1jared1 nice to meet ya, if and or when I can get them to lay there eggs on a tile I will this trying to fish them out of the tank is a hassel but I checked today and it looks like I did get allot more than 50.

:rollface:

[mako56]

Well day two and there are still about thirty or so left here are some pics. Can you see any full bellies on these?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day2.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day2-1.jpg

[chungsl]

how about the length of newly hatched baby?

[spk]

Mike,

Way to go.

Merry Christmas too.

1jared1, I think that everyone tries the tile process, but the clowns have a mind of their own, and might not like the tile provided.

Kathy, has success with this as her friends clowns are very accomodating and lay on the tile all the time. Such obedient fishes....!!!!:D

Steve

[Kathy55g]

More like well trained owners!
:0
Cheers

[mobert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6342266#post6342266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mako56
Well day two and there are still about thirty or so left here are some pics. Can you see any full bellies on these?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day2.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day2-1.jpg

Really amazing pictures! Wish I could take close-ups like that.

It's been a while since I raised larvae but I kinda remember that the stomach's looked bigger than the heads when they were full. When looking from above there should be a definite stomach bulge.

[mako56]

WOW day three and there are still allot left.:bounce1: :bounce3: :bounce2: :dance: never made it this far yet.



http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day3.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day3-2.jpg

[mako56]

And they laid another batch of eggs today. Wish I could send them to you Kathy. And guess what not on the tile again but I guess these will be fish food anyway if these babies makes it that far.

[Kathy55g]

I wish you could send them to me, too! Your latest pix look like full bellied larvae to me! Keep it up, you are doing fine!
Kathy

[spk]

These are really cool pics. Not sure if this has been asked, but what camera are you using?

Can I stand in line too please? :D

Steve

[mako56]

Thanks everyone, don't think they would make it all the way to you Steve.:lol: I just got a Canon EOS 20-D with a 100 macro lens last month I am sure that if I knew what I was doing with it thw pics could be much better.

[mako56]

Day 4 looks like about a dozen left some have really nice full bellies and are swiming like crazy. Heres day 4.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day4-1.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day4.jpg

[Victoly]

I've gotta tag along ;) Nice job so far! BTW did you buy a mated pair or did they finally start getting along? I have 2 Clarkii and one jumped into the anemone within the first 30 sec. of being introduced to the tank. It has been defending that spot from the other ever since :(

[SEA YOU LATER]

nice pics keepim coming

[mako56]

Victoly just got a couple maroons and they paired up they were both pretty small when I got them. No more pics from this batch checked this morning and don't see any more alive :sad1: :sad2: must of did something wrong but we will try again next batch of eggs should hatch new years eve.

[Kathy55g]

Sorry to hear that, but keep trying! When you own the parents, there is always another hatch!

[mako56]

I found one healty baby, must of been hiding well I looked but I would still like to try and catch the next hatch if he stays alive. What would be a good thing to do with him?

[mako56]

Day 5, one left.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day5-1.jpg

[818]

one left wow!

Name him Lucky if he makes it through the growing:D

[Victoly]

Good luck with the next hatch.... The best part is you have an almost limitless supply of opportunities!

[Kathy55g]

Lucky is looking good!

On Saltwaterfish.com, there is a Guy named Guy who documented his first clownfish breeding, and had one Lucky left as you do. He named him little Nemo. :)

Lone survivors have great personality!

[spk]

Sorry to hear about the loss, but good luck with this one and the next batches.

Steve

[mako56]

Can I leave the one in the tank and add the new ones?

[jebar777]

tagging along! i have a pair of ocelaris that are starting to sex, so i want to learn as much as i can so i can hopefully learn to raise and feed the hatch.

[mako56]

Heres some pics of Nemo on day 6.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day6.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day6-1.jpg

Hi jebar777, we can learn together. Thanks for all the concerns guys and gals but I am still fired up got one left and he is lookin happy. Any ideas on what I can do with him when the next hatch comes new years eve?

[mtraylor]

Wow!

Great info and pics. I currently have a mating pair of clowns and actually missed the first hatch becuase I fell asleep. My clowns spawned for the second time on XMAS...I have my rots and green water brewing right now.

Long live Nemo....

I wonder why you are loosing so many? I'm sure I will not be able to keep one alive now.. Does the water go bad quickly as you feed them? How are you changing the water in the tank?

[mako56]

Nemo didn't make it. Mtraylor I am doing allot of things wrong I think. I did change some water but maybe not enough. I don't really know if I have rots I have allot of something but untill I get my new microscope I can't be sure. One thing for sure the little net thing that they sent with the kit would not catch what I have the mesh is way to big. I was just dumping some of the water from the jugs into the tank that is problably a bad thing too. It is cool to try and I don't like the failure even my wife feels bad. But we will try again on new years eve do some things a little different and see what happens. I don't have green water I have been using the food I got in the kit not really sure if thats good either. Just way to many experiments going on at one time I guess. Good luck on your efforts.

[mtraylor]

Oh no... Sorry to hear that...
I felt real bad when I went to bed and lost all the eggs that I was ooh so waiting on... WEll I got my kit from Florida Aqua Farms... They are very nice and very knowledgable...Great customer service. I got some net thinging to capture the rotifers in, its a green cylinder with a net in the bottom...but I dont know how well this works yet...I will know soon and tell you. They informed me to never pour from the water the rotifers are in because its too dirty and will kill the fish..

They wrote a book on raising clown fish and there is another book i"m going to go look for this evening called "CLOWNFISHES by Joyce Wilkerson". I have been doing allot of reading trying to get ready for these clown fishes and your documentary is great. Allot of things I wanted to try, you have been there and done that. Keep up the good work.

[jnowell]

Joyce's book is great. I also highly recommend Kmleah's greenwater method. Now that she helped me, my greenwater is thriving. I'm at day 10 with my first hatch, 25+ still kicking. I just switched to baby brine shrimp, so I think most of the hard stuff is over.

I'm new to this also, so feel free to learn from my mistakes in my thread too, "Clarkii Rearing (No Rotifers)". I dropped the "no rotifer" part after hearing the survival rates from dry food. My next hatch will probably happen tomorrow night, and since I have good cultures of greenwater and rotifers, I'm going to try for two batchs at once.

Good luck!

Jason

[Kathy55g]

I'm glad the method of growing phyto is working for you, as it does for me, but it is not really my method. Ediaz (Edgar) told me how to do it. I learned stuff from this forum too.

:)
Kathy

[jnowell]

Oops, sorry Edgar ;) I pay particular attention to his posts too Kathy, you just beat him to the punch with the phyto plan. I'll be happy when I've got more years under my belt so I can be informative (rather than an information sponge).

Soooo, thanks Ediaz, it works wonderfully!

Jason

[mako56]

I caught another fifty or so last night. Wierd thing all the eggs didn't hatch I looked tonight when I got home and there are still a few left. Maybe I will get some more but I don't have any rots to feed them anyways so its still the dry food test I guess. I did oder some instant algae boy is that stuff strange kinda like green oil. I froze most of it they say it will last a long long time that way and I ordered one of those collection cups and some more rot cysts so I should be ready for the next time. Mine are on a eleven day cycle. I can use this instant algae to start green water cultures if I want to too can't I?

[Kathy55g]

Unfortunately, instant algae is not alive. You can enrich the rots with it, grow the rots with it, use it in the larval tank to keep the rots nutritious, but....

The great advantage of live phyto is that when you add it to the larval tank, it doesn't die until it's consumed by the rots, so it keeps the rots nutritious, and helps the larvae find food like instant algae, but the difference is that it doesn't rot and foul the water, and it
helps to absorb ammonia!!!!!!

I've been using instant algae to grow and enrich the rots, but keeping a culture of phyto alive in addition to add to the larval tank.

Unfortunately, you cannot grow a culture from instant algae. It's dead. I've heard that it is very difficult to culture even DT's anymore. Best to find a friend with a live culture or order some. Then culture your own.

Good luck with those eggs, Mike! They will probably hatch tonight! Happy New Year!

[mako56]

Thanks for the info Kathy. After I get some stuff together here I will have to do it the right way.

[jnowell]

After I get some stuff together here I will have to do it the right way.

Gee Mike, that sounds just like my rearing attempts. :) Good luck with this hatch, and keep those pictures coming, they are incredible (I was a photo major in college, and your photos impress me). I'd kill for a digital SLR, my Nikon point and shoot isn't getting the job done.

With such beautiful parents, I bet the post-larval baby pics will be awesome. Only a matter of time...and work....and then more work....and...

Cheers, I be looking forward to the updates.

Jason

[mako56]

Well thanks allot jnowell the camera must do it all by it self cause I don't know what I am doing.:lol: :lol: The Canon 20-D with the 100 macro lens is pretty cool though just can't wait until I learn more about it. I have one cool pic I took of the ma and pa with there eggs not sure if I posted that one or not but that one was taken with the 17-85 lens that came with the camera. I got all this instant algea now so I will use it for a while and see what happens. But like I said might as well do it right just need to find some more room.:eek1:

[mako56]

One more question for today do any of you light the fry tank? Oh another batch of eggs laid today. I am going to take a pic every day till they hatch to see the process better.

[jnowell]

I usually just use ambient room light (no top on the tank) for the first two or three days, then I put one 15w light in the hood and see how they react (watch the temp too after adding the light). Most of the time, they stay towards the top, which is good. If they all go to the bottom, or shy away from the light, then I raise it up until it suits them. I use a 16-8 light cycle.

[kamilek]

Mike,

Pleasure reading your posts, fingers crossed.
Waiting for my eggs to hatch, but not ready for it. So far, I ordered Clownfishes by Joyce D Wilkerson.

One question: You tested dry food, why not frozen rotifers?

[mako56]

:lol: Thats my learning process I guess kamilek:lol: Oh welcome to reef central I would put up the fancy sign but I didn't figure that one out either yet. Good luck to you. I should break down and buy thay book too problably could of saved allot of money if I would of.:rolleye1:

[kamilek]

Mike,
What is the water temp in your main tank? What is the average time for eggs to hatch? Your send batch took 21 days (12/01-12/21) to hatched, is this correct? Next, took only 9 (12/24-1/01). I thought it’s 8 days on average, am I missing something. Asking, because I want to pull the nest out the night of hatch.
Good luck.
Thanks

[mako56]

No kamilek I think I was at work when the second batch hatched so I didn't count them because I didn't catch any thats why it was 21 days. Its not written in stone or anything I have been watching for a month or so now and they lay the eggs and 8 days after they usually hatch then three days after they hatch they lay more eggs and 8 days after they hatch. But the last time a little over half hatched on day seven (if I found the eggs on the day they were layed) and the other half the next night. Now they have more eggs they layed on January 2nd and should hatch on the 10th. I don't know like I said its doesn't seem to be a for sure thing. My last batch didn't make it either there were about 5 left this morning and they are all gone now. I think if I don't get the rots going in time I won't even bother catching them this time unless I can figure out what else I am doing wrong. My temp runs like 79 during the day with the lights on and 76 at night, the heater keeps it warm at night I think but the lights keep it warm during the day. In the summer it gets to 80-82 during the day and like 77-78 at night.

[jnowell]

Mine usually hatch 11-12 days after being laid, and mine are in plain sight, so I don't miss the spawn day. My tank runs about 77 degrees, but I am slowly raising it up to accomodate the spawners.

Mike, I'm hoping the temp in your larvae tank doesn't swing by 3 degrees a day too. I have one of those cheap Coralife digital thermometers ($5.99) on my larvae tank and it swings maybe .5 degrees (.2 degrees either way from normal, which is 79.0 degrees). These aren't the most accurate therms out there, but they will tell you how consistant you are. I use a cheapo 50W heater right above the airstone.

The rotifers really are the key Mike, I don't really think you have any other problems outside of nutrition. I bet if you had a bunch of rotifers in the tank the morning of day one, you'd see a vast improvement in survival rates.

Do you have any green water, Instant Algae, or anything to feed Rotifers? If you can keep them fed, I'd send you enough to start a co-culture in your rearing tank. As long as you CONSTANTLY kept the water cloudy with Instant Algae, DT's, or some other form of microalgae or rotifer food, they would probably reproduce faster than the fry can eat them.

I usually get my density up early, then add fresh grown nanno chloropsis about 3-4 times a day, the fry get fat, and the rotifer population sustains itself (I'm not talking 200 fry here, between 15 and 50). Then 8 or 9 days later, I switch them to newly hatched brine shrimp (easy and cheap) and I have 11 of them through metamorphasis (out of 50) and another 16 getting ready to start.

You could also start a Rotifer culture with some of them in another tank / bucket/ anything that holds water.

Jason

[mako56]

I will have to keep an eye on the temp but it does have a heater so i am thinking it stays prety close to the same temp. I have instant algae I was thinking I could use that and start a green water culture but now I found out no. I froze most of it in ice cube trays so I should be able to keep for a long time. It will work for now untill I get a green water thing going or if that would crash someday. WOW thanks for the offer I did order the pvc collector and seeing I was getting that I ordered the 3-500 l stain rotifer cysts from Florida Aqua Farms. Hope I did't screw that up too. I think I hit them all now Aqua Farms, Reed and Paul. I hope that will work. I am going to keep tring untill I get it so keep the ideas flowing.

[mako56]

I am asking another dumb question. I had these jars of rots going and I think when I harvested I wasn't thinking and took them all. Oh well that’s done I ordered some more but I kept the jars going now the water is turning green and when I look through it with my 20X microscope I see all these tiny green colored things swimming around could that be the green water algae?

[DebsSisterFlo]

I saw the eggs!!! Mike was so gracious to invite my husband and me over to see his tank. It is so gorgeous, and he has this microscope that sticks to the glass and I can't tell you how cool it was to be able to actually see the eyes of the babies inside of their egg sacs.
Oh, and I REALLY wanted to walk off with his camera! lol!!! Very nice, I'll have one someday.

Thanks again Mike!!! Keep in touch about the live rock!

[mako56]

Thanks Jess, was neat to have someone to show the tank too. Haven't heard a delivery date on the rock yet but will let pm ya when I find out. The eggs should hatch tonight or tomorrow night not even sure if I will collect them this time seeing I don't have any food for them yet unless I could feed them those little things I have growing.

[DebsSisterFlo]

I don't suppose they'd last long in the tank, even with a momma as feisty as theirs is! Oh did I mention how gorgeous the copperbanded butterfly was? I think that was my favorite fish!

[mako56]

Well lets see if this works.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/EggDays2Small.jpg

[Atticus]

VERY NICELY DONE!!!

[spk]

Mike,

Superb. These are reallu neat and informative.

Steve

[jaybro]

Agreed, 'very' nice picture set! Did you use a flash? Those eyes look silver from the begining!

And yes... I know absolutely nothing about photography. =)

[Kathy55g]

Wow, those are the best I've ever seen!

[mako56]

They are pretty cool but I know nothing about photography either. As you ca see they don't match at all gota try and do better. AND NOW I HAVE ROTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:bounce1: :bounce2: :bounce3: :dance:

[jnowell]

You da' man Mike! Who cares if you have previous photo experience, you have skills and equipment, that is truly amazing.

Glad to hear your rots are kicking too, you are ready now. Can't wait to see more baby pics :D

Jason

[mako56]

Thanks everybody I am going to see what it would look like with only a couple eggs in each pic. I tred using the flash but found it works better to light the eggs. And she laid more eggs today don't know if I will have enough rots in 8 days though.

[Kathy55g]

Don't know if you'll have enough rots?

Before you start, try to calculate how many you will need and what volume . Double that, and add 25 % for mistakes. Take that volume and divide it by 4 and that is the volume you need to start with. Make it nice and concentrated if you want.( I find that 150 rots per ml is a good place to be because it is easy to harvest 10 % of the larval tank for the right number to feed the larvae. But that is not yet.) air and feed.

Take out half of the volume of water and rots each day for the next 3 days. Replace the water volume with fresh saltwater each time. Your rotifers will at least double each day and you will be decreasing the population of older non-reproducing rotifers.

Then, for the next 3 days, double the volume by just adding fresh saltwater. Keep feeding as the water clears.

At the end of the 6 days you will have lots of rots, a good population of young ones, and they will keep multiplying for you. You can adjust the concentrations and volumes then as is convenient for you.

This worked for me last time.

Cheers,
Kathy

[mako56]

Thanks allot Kathy. I don't understand this part

Then, for the next 3 days, double the volume by just adding fresh saltwater. Keep feeding as the water clears.

Are the jugs not full to begin with or do you dump some out?

[Kathy55g]

Depends on how big the jug is that you start with. You can use any container you want. I have kept rots going between spawns in the bottom of a soda bottle, then expanded up to a 5 gallon pail. I do not necessarily fill the jug or bottle. I just control the volume of the rot soup and remove half or add additional volume as needed. If I need a bigger jug, I use one.

I forgot to say, after day 6, you need to keep harvesting rots/replacing the water about 30-50% each day if you want the population to be maintained.

Good luck!

(No jug jokes allowed, Ed.)

[jnowell]

Kathy, so about those jugs.....LOL - you didn't forbid ME from making any jokes, so I filled in for Edgar ;)

I see you finally got your screen name changed...woohoo.

Mike, I hope the rotifers are doing well, mine just went through a move to my new breeding setup (pics and thread coming soon) and they slowed reproduction a little...right after my hatch of course.

[km133688]

nice pics mike, I was looking for something just like this. If I get around to documenting anything I do, can I supplement a report I might to for my reef club with your egg pics?

Kevin

PS. I am going to try raising my current batch this week, so I will be watching you real close. I too will be starting with "dry" food. Although I am going to use the new Hikari frozen rotifers and frozen baby brine shrimp.

[mako56]

:lol: Don't follow me to close unless you want to see what you shouldn't do. I don't think I will have enough rots when this batch hatches either. Everyone makes this sound easy but I am having lots of trouble need some more experience. If you want to use them you can I don't really know what I am doing there either though and if someone else did they could do a better job of editing the pics.

[km133688]

yeah my first go at rots seemed to work well, but after that I have had no luck. I was using live phyto first time and dead feed other times though.

[DebsSisterFlo]

hey Mike, we were at Advanced yesterday and Adam was telling us about someone in Florida where they use actual ocean water, filtered, and they try to raise clowns... Adam said that these guys are scientists that should really know what's going on, and they had a 95% mortality rate. So it's not just you! You're going to get it right, I have faith in you! :D

[jnowell]

I couldn't agree more Jessica!

Mike, you'll get there too, and I hope I'm not one of the ones who made it sound easy! I personally think it's far from easy...but then if it was easy it would just bore me. I was quite shocked to get any through metamorphasis...heck, I was shocked to get them past day 3. The rots took me some time too, and I lost a good portion of the first try to that fact. The second try I lost all of them, I'm hoping for a good third try...we shall see.

So far, it's been nothing but a learning experience, but in hind sight, it's been a fun journey along the way, even with all the disappointments.

Hang in there...

[spk]

Mike,

as the English say, chin up. Everyone goes through the learning curve and will loose fish. But remember that each time you are successful, you are saving a wild caught fish somewhere.

You are doing an astounding job, and any chance that we can read of another experience is always great news.

Steve

[mako56]

Thanks people I should not of said everyone makes it sound easy must of been some kind of brain fart. Everyone makes it sound like a challenge which it is and I will get it sooner or later. I guess a person just get a little frustrated when things don'r go as you would like. I should know better with having the reef tank for almost three years now :mixed: I still have ph fluctuations from 7.85 to 8.15 between night and day. I even put in a $500.00 air exchanger to try and get more fresh air into the house. Oh well looks like the next hatch should be on Wednesday or Thursday but if those rots don't kick it in high gear soon there won't be enough.

[jnowell]

Mike, How often and how much are you harvesting rotifers? How often are you feeding. They should be in high gear by now, and don't forget that while you are harvesting, they will replenish to about the same numbers in 24 hours.

I pull 3-5 full "scoops" with my plankton collecter (same as yours) out of a ten gallon every day. The next day, I always have about the same density in the culture as I did the day before. I add phyto (or roti-rich, or IA) about 4 times a day, just enough to give the water a good green tint. They clear that water in about 4 hours, and I find that to be perfect. The water is usually slightly green except in the morning, I feed 7am, 12pm, 5pm, and 9 or 10pm. If I'm up late, I sometimes add a little more to get them through the night.

Frequent and regular feeding and harvesting is the key. Keep the culture clean in between these actions, and it should do well for you.

[Kathy55g]

When I harvest rots, which is everyday, I harvest the water along with them. then I replace the volume with fresh saltwater (actually used, but not by the rots) . That keeps the rot culture fresher, and smells better, and I don't need to restart the cultures as often.

[mako56]

I started with the 3000 - 5000 cysts thing I do seem to have a quite a few now. I will harvest some today and put them in the larvae tank today cause I think the babies will hatch tonight. Do you use water from your display to add water to your rots? I have them in four - one gallon jugs now, I tried putting some in the green water and tiny critters that just happened in my first try at rots and they are multiplying faster in there its coming along I think. Thanks for the help I need whatever I can get.

[mtraylor]

They say it might not be a good idea to use the water directly from the display because there may be some copepodes etc in there that you dont notice that can deplete your population by eating the rots. You can microwave the water to kill the stuff in there though..

I currenlty have some rots started about day 7/8 and I cant tell if there is anything living in there or not. If I decant the water off into the mesh, should you be able to see the rots then? I cant see anything in the green water

[mako56]

I have a 20X microscope that I have been checking them out with and just now my new 40x to 1000X came UPS and needs to warm up can't wait to see what those little things in the green water really look like.

[mtraylor]

Ok, so I guess you cant see them with the naked eye. When you filter them out on the mesh....do you see anything?

[Kathy55g]

I frequently see them at 10x....In fact I can catch tiny dots with my reading glasses....

[Kathy55g]

When I feed them nanno, I see green rots on the rot filter. Rotifer diet turns them reddish.

[mako56]

The rots look like little dust specks with the eyeball in the 20X you can see them really good swirling around with there green bellies. I am talking about the tiny things that started growing in the first try at me growing rots. They looked like dust under 20X I just looked at them with my new toy and it takes all the way up to 1000X to make them half the size of the rots at 20X. I don't have a clue what they are, they are oval in shape with a green tint under the 1000X they move fairly quick but under the 20X they just look like millions of specks slowly moving around. I didn't try filtering yet but this afternoon I am going to try.

[ediaz]

oval shaped , move quick , it may be ciliates

[mako56]

There are two size well three now I added some rots to the mix they seem to like it in there. But the medium sized oval things move really fast the little guys just do a little more than float around.

[seafarm]

If you use water from your reef to replace the water you harvest from your rotifer system, run it through a coffee filter first. That will keep your rotifer culture free from other organisms.

[DebsSisterFlo]

ediaz your avatar pic is gorgeous, just wanted to say...
Mike, I sure hope I see some babies this weekend? Now that you have that new toy you really have no use for that macro lense, so I'll just take that with me, ok? No, really!!! haha!!

[Kathy55g]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6535510#post6535510 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seafarm
If you use water from your reef to replace the water you harvest from your rotifer system, run it through a coffee filter first. That will keep your rotifer culture free from other organisms.

I do that, and usually, I bleach overnight and dechlorinate just to make sure.

[mako56]

So you put how much bleach in a gallon container? I got some of the Cloram-x how much of that?

[Kathy55g]

I bleach 1 ml of bleach per gallon of saltwater.

I use chloramX when I have an ammonia problem.

I use biosafe or biosomething for the bleach thing. 1 or 2 ml per gallon. I always test for chlorine after dechlorinating until I am sure I am dechlorinating enough. Pet stores have chlorine test strips--expensive but easy.

Sodium Thiosulphate also works well for dechlorinating, and probably is cheapest.

I got the Biosafe stuff for free at the last aquarium conference; ain't nothing cheaper than free. conference was not, however, free.

[mako56]

Now say when I harvest a one gallon container (notice not a jug) I dump half of it into the strainer then what? Dump the rest in a clean container being careful not to dump the junk from the bottom and then just toss the water from the bottom and the water I strained out in the toilet or something? I am scared of the sacrifice coming from the bottom for now but I guess after it gets going what's a few rots getting flushed. I think the babies are probably hatching as I am sitting at work on break. So I have plenty of time to make more rots.

[mako56]

Yep they hatched and none to be found this morning.

[Kathy55g]

Daily harvest:
I use a plastic coffee filter to screen out the big junk. I set this on top of the rot filter, and pour off half of the culture through the 2 filters. Rinse clean the coffee filter, letting the junk go down the drain, with tap water, and put away. Then I add back the same volume of warm fresh saltwater 20-25ppt that I previously took out of the culture. I then stick the filter with the rots on it into a container of 1/2 the culture's daily ration of rotifer diet and saltwater, in a volume just enough to cover the rotifers on the filter. Let this sit for 20-30 minutes to enrich them. Then pull up the filter and feed the rots to the larvae or the reef. The leftover rotifer diet from the enrichment container can be poured into the rot tank to feed the culture of rots. Rinse all containers and filters with tap water and air dry. About every other day I dissolve a tiny pinch (1/10 teaspoon) of chloramX in rotifer water and add to the culture. Air as usual.

Every 3 days or so:
Pour the whole culture through the double filter discarding the water and what collects on the coffee filter. Clean the culturing vessell with warm tap water and a piece of blue filter fluff, or get a fresh container. Rinse half or all of the collected rots back off the filter and put into the clean culturing container with fresh saltwater, and add food. Air as usual. If feeding larvae, enrich the rots reserved for this purpose and use the leftover enrichment to feed the culture as above.

HTH
Kathy

[mako56]

Well I got rots one small tank full and three gallon containers Fed some to my reef tonight. You guys really pulled me through now all I need is some baby fish I am home to catch. How much do you put in with the fry?

[Peter Schmiedel]

Mike,

may I high jack this thread as I am trying the same and we can combine our findings? I also have the yellow band version.

Frist try several weeks ago I was cought by surprise and did not have sufficient rots. Anway from the 20 test larve 2 made it until day 7. At that time I also had no premium brine so mal nutrition was an issue.

Next harvest was done last night and fry has been added into green water and selco enrichted rots have been added in fair amounts. Will be home in 2 hrs and can see what the current status is.

[mako56]

Cool Peter. I sure can use the help and I guess I should really see if the brine shrimp eggs I have will still hatch. They are kind of old. That's as far as I ever made it too but I never had any rots before I had eggs laid yesterday so maybe early next week we will be going for it again. Glad you are aboard.

[Kathy55g]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6564092#post6564092 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mako56
... How much do you put in with the fry?

Joyce Wilkerson recommends 8-15 rots per ml in the larval tank.

[mako56]

:lol: Now that will take me some cipherin. Thanks Kathy

[Peter Schmiedel]

Update from today, two surprises yesterday:

1. 20 % of the fry was dead 8??) but the rest is doining fine and eating. I assume this was the ones I ahd to sukc of with a hoss as the light ing in the larve trapp was not perfect. :(

2. Obviously only 50 % of the eggs hatched the night before, so this morning I could harvest the rest in my trapp :)

Rots and special brine (very small, with a lot of HUE - and an incredible price 50 gr 40 $) are ready for usage. in the afternoon I will try to feed the brine the first time.

[Peter Schmiedel]

The second hatching batch has been placed in a different tank. Makes it more difficult to feed sufficient but on the other hand decreases risk. And if I have one thing enough then it is tanks :D

I must built a device to filter off the BBS and rots which where not eaten before they loose all their nutritients. Thats the task for today.

As I am 40+ and have glasses it is hard to see if the babies have eaten food. Fry is shwimming activly and looks fine so far. But at day 2 this is not yet a challenge completed.

Found some shrimp larvae in batch one - must be L. ambonensis. From what I heard this shrimp is rather difficult to raise. Lwurdemani is a piece of cake and I am waiting that my last batch is setteling today is day 18 so only a few more to go.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Day 3 for batch one and the first time I can see round filled bellies :D Pays off to use the f***ing expensive brine eggs. Lesson learned start brine not before day 3. Still some of the fry is really small and skiny and does not look healthy to me.

Batch 2 is obviously feeding on the rots. Observations with the magnifing glass show hunting attempts but I am uncertain if they really do feed.

[Dman]

I've had fairly decent success with this:
1. Drop the salinity of the hatch tank to 1.016-1.018.
2. Put airstones in all four corners on a low, slow stream of air. (or use a round tank)
3. Don't put rotifers in the hatch tank until the morning/day after they've hatched.
Biggest diffference or the one that's made the biggest impact after about day 7 or 8 is my second food. I was using freeze dried CE but I had almost complete mortalities with it, now I'm using Otohime Size A with what I think is close to zero food related mortalities.
But once you get 300-500 cruising around in a 10 gallon tank they do a pretty good job of kick the crajp out of each other

Dman

[Kathy55g]

i wonder what was in freeze dried CE that killed them?

[Dman]

I have no idea, but I never had any luck using it with any of my clown species, 7 in all.
Dman

[mako56]

Hey thanks allot Dman. Where do you get that Otohime Size A from?

[Dman]

Mako56
Through REED MARICULTURE (http://www.otohime.us/). It comes graded by size and has taken a pile of hassles off my hands if you have multiple batches on the go.
Dman

[spk]

Ok,

Folks what the hell is CE? I am confused and thick this morning.

Thanks

Steve

[Dman]

CE = Cyclop-eeze (http://www.cyclop-eeze.com)
HTH

[mako56]

I am thinking of trying some of that stuff Dman. But $58.00 that is allot of stuff I would guess. Does it last a long time? Can you freeze it or something? I don't have any brine shrimp unless you count the thousands that are all over my main tank. Which brings me to another question Last night I was just making sure that my eggs didn't hatch unexpectedly on me and found this in the tank any one have any ideas?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_0817.jpg

Tonight is the night capture material, water and rots ready I also bummed the clownfish book from a local club member so I got some reading to do. Pretty interesting things about maroon Clowns sounds like I got pretty lucky.

[mako56]

I got a half hatch again last night. Broke my home made tank just before it happened had to put the babies in a pail until I could get to the store and get a new tank. No more iffy home made tanks. The ten gallon was only ten bucks how could you go wrong. Waiting for the second batch to hatch must of got around 75 last night.

[Peter Schmiedel]

I lost mine almost completly only a few left. No idea why ???

Next batch will hatch at the weekend.

[mako56]

Bummer Pete, the secret is to figure out why so we don't do that next time. Tonights hatch is being screwed up with a cleaner shrimp hatch there are thousands of them I can't hardly see the fish. Not to many so far anyways so I turned the pumps back on might clear some of them out.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Mike,

I believe my water parameter went bad as I could not let them swim in green water. I for had enough rots, but did I feed enough too ... rather to much ...

[Luis A M]

[i Which brings me to another question Last night I was just making sure that my eggs didn't hatch unexpectedly on me and found this in the tank any one have any ideas?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_0817.jpg

[/B]

It is a crab larva.Do you keep some hermits there?

[mako56]

Yep I have three different kinds of hermits, a couple Sally Lightfoots and a couple Emerald crabs. Thats kinda wild thanks allot Luis A M.

[mako56]

Well day # 4 and only lost about 10 of the half batch that hatched. Must be around 50 - 75 I would guess. I think I screwed up the hatch with to bright of a flashlight or turning the pumps off to early or maybe they just weren't going to hatch. I checked after there were no more babies coming and the old man was up in the anemone and not talking care of the eggs any more. The next night I only got about another ten and they quit again. Then they became fish food I think because I went to bed like 5:00 AM and there were still eggs but they were all gone when I got up.

[DebsSisterFlo]

I'm gonna see babies! I'm gonna see babies!!!

[dpieroni]

Hey MIke , which method do you use to cacht the babies in the main tank and trasfering it to the larval tank?
It is very dificult to get the larvae, they swim a lot and react to my presence.
They are tomato larvaes and I am using rotifers, but I do not know what happen but the larvae do not live after 1 day.
I was not using a tank with the sides in black.
And reading this forum I see that my larvae are quiet besides the walls of the tank so I can imagine that this is not correct...
I wll try the next time to have a white botton and the walls in black.
When do you feed with rotifers for the first time?
ow many rotifers do you feed?
thanks
diego

[mako56]

Hey Diego nice to meet ya. Don't get the idea that I know anything about this :lol: but I am learning. we can learn together lots of knowledgeable people stop in here to post good advice. What I do because I can't get my stubborn clown to lay on a tile is I watch the night they should hatch and when I start seeing the babies I put a small night light up in the corner of the tank away from where the eggs are so the light doesn't shine on the hatching. Then I turn my pumps off so far I have been using a one cup measuring cup and try to catch as many as I can like that then I got this pipet thing with my first rot kit and I put a piece of air line tube on that. I stick the air tube in my mouth to control the suction and I catch most of them like that but it is very time consuming. I am sure there is a better way but haven;t found it yet. I covered the outside of the tank with black plastic like landscapers use ( I used to do that at one time too) the bottom just sits on some white paper toweling. This is my first time with rots but what I did is the day after the hatch I just scooped some up and dumped them in the book says the babies shouldn't have to swim more than one length to get a rot. Mine was more like a half of a length I am using Instant Alae right now so I have been putting a little of that in to feed the rots to and so far I haven't had to add any more they must be multiplying in the tank. So far its working don't take all of this info to heart because I am still trying never had any babies grow up yet.

[Kathy55g]

Mike,
Hi, are you filtering out the old rotifer water before you add the rots to the baby clownfish tank? You want to get rid of the water the rots have been growing in.

I do the filter thing, and then I let the concentrated rots sit in a bowl of phyto for a 20-30 mins. They eat fast and fill up with phyto, then I filter them out of that soup and feed the rots to the larvae. I just rinse them off the screen with a little larvae tank water, and then pour them in gently. Then add live greenwater to tint the larvae tank green or make it a little cloudy.

I have found, like you, that the larvae tank does not need too many more additions as the rots like the larvae tank conditions and multiply faster than the larvae can eat them. But watch out if you get a really big number of clownfish larvae that hatch. They may be able to consume the rot population faster.

[mako56]

Hey Kathy, I feed the rots good then I took about 2 cups of the rots and water and poured them through the little screen thing they sent with that first kit I bought which probably gave me to many but I just emptied the screen in the tank. I put a little Instant Algae in every day and they must be multiplying in there because I haven;t added any more and it doesn't;t look like any are gone. I will try and take some pics today they look allot bigger and more colorful than they ever did before and no deaths today yet. Knock on wood. I got rots coming out my ears now I strain loads of them to feed my corals and they seem happier now too.

[dpieroni]

how is the night light are you using? what color?
is a generic incandecent light?
thanks
diego

[Kathy55g]

Great news, Mike! Go clean your ears....

[mako56]

Yep dpieroni just a regular old (looks like a candle) night light. But I ain't sure its not too bright.


Well going for the record here. Done with day six and no deaths today still over fifty I would say. Some day six pics.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_09561.jpg



http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_09601.jpg

[Kathy55g]

congrats, Mike! got decapsulated brine shrimp eggs going? You are almost there! This could be the big one for you! May the force be with you!

[DebsSisterFlo]

Oh Mike I'm so happy for you! I was thinking of those babies today and wondering how they were, glad I came to see a good report!

[mako56]

Thanks guys it was hard to go to work today hate to have a baby maroon clown crash. Started the baby brine shrimp yesterday so we will see what I got tonight. I did get some of that stuff That Dman was talking about they sell it in a 6 ounce container now so I thought I would try it. Crossing fingers and knocking on all the wood I can find.

[Mike de Leon]

kathy 55g you will perish!!!! The force is not currently with you , because it is with ME!!! the force is with me!!!
:strooper: :strooper:

[Mike de Leon]

lmao

[mako56]

No deaths yesterday. Could see little strips on some of them. My shrimp eggs musta been to old but I think they are taking to my small dry food.

[Kathy55g]

Exciting, isn't it?

[mako56]

Sure is Kathy now its day ten and no dead ones they are swimmong around like crazy darting here and there really cool. Took some pics last night you can start to see the stripe.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day910.jpg

[Kathy55g]

At this stage they are very hardy. You should have no problems raising them now. Just make sure you keep the water quality with no ammonia, and siphon the floor. Feed them well, and watch them grow!
Kathy

[Kathy55g]

Put some pieces of clean PVC elbows and T's in there for them to play around in. Very amusing!

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6701510#post6701510 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mako56
[B]Sure is Kathy now its day ten and no dead ones they are swimmong around like crazy darting here and there really cool. Took some pics last night you can start to see the stripe.

]

StripeS!I see two of them!:D
Nice,huh?.As always great pics!:)

[mako56]

I bought them a play anemone toy and a sponge filter would that be ok to put in there too? And I was wondering can I take the black plastic off the sides of the tank yet? As you can see I am a LITTLE fired up. And thanks again Kathy and all the rest of you for helping me get this far.

[Kathy55g]

You are more than welcome. It has been fun for me to see your progress.

I think you can take the black plastic off.

[ediaz]

NO, DON"T TAKE THE PLASTIC OFF, THEY'LL DIE OF PHOTO SHOCK!



































































Just kidding, it will be all right:rollface: watch your babies with pride.

Wasn't you the one that said nobody replied to your threads?

Good job!
Ed

[Kathy55g]

Ed
:fun5:




:wavehand:

[Bidadari]

Mike, well done! Good luck with those babies. I hope they make it.
I am going to try my first attemp on raising percula clown fries.
I think the eggs should hatch either tonight or tomorrow.
I got my rots culture going & have tons of rots right now.
1 curiousity question I have, what happen if I don't cover my hatching tank with dark cover & leave it clear/see through?

[mako56]

Bidadari thanks. It seems that they have a harder time seeing there food. I would just do it and experiment later if you want. It just sucks to blow your first time, second time, and third time. :lol:

And you TOO ED Thanks. Yep that was me but this topic is way interesting. I think I will go down and try and photo shock them a little. :bounce1: :bounce3: :bounce2: :beer:

[DebsSisterFlo]

Wow! Mike! Wow!!!
I am so super happy for you! Oh and you know, you're going to have waaay to many, so maybe I should take some off yer hands! lol!!! Keep those pics coming! Daily so we can watch them grow! :D

[jnowell]

Way to go Mike! I've been absent lately, and look what you did while I was gone, we told you it was a matter of time! AWESOME!

I'm starting up agin now too, after a short break to "fix" some things. Kathy, my Phyto is growing again :D :D :D

Congratulations, persistence pays off, doesn't it! I'm super happy for you, and I'm certain you are glued to the tank all waking hours like I was. Kathy said it, just feed them well, keep the tank clean, and watch them grow!

Jason

[Kathy55g]

How did you fix the phyto?

[jnowell]

Just tore it all down, bleached everything overnight, mixed new water with new salt and bleach, and used new de-chlor. I only started three 2 liters and all are looking great, one will be usable tomorrow.

My hypothesis is that I had turned the air off a time or two, and that let growing phyto go back up into the rigid airline, which eventually grew bacteria after the air was back on. I was wiping the outside of the airline with bleach everytime, but when I took it all apart, there was yellow gunk growing on the inside of the rigid tubes. My guess is that I was practically blowing bacteria into my cultures....that won't happen again! Thanks for all the advice. Still have 25 from batch 2 looking good, all have all their stripes now and are starting to get yellow in their fins and orange on their bodies. Little pigs!

Next set should be a winner...I hope ;)

Jason

[mako56]

Thanks jnowell. Glad to here you got your phyto thing figured out. Someday I will try that too the instant algae works fine but it is a bit expensive. It would be nice to have some frozen just in case though. So far at day 11 no deaths kinda weird but only lost about ten all together so far but I only caught about 75 I guess. They move way to fast to count or take pics but I got a couple here.


Some looking to start scraping again just like kids. :lol:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day1131.jpg

And one by the fitting to see how small they are/
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/Day1111.jpg

[Kathy55g]

Looking good!

[jnowell]

That's awesome Mike! They do look really good, it's all up hill from here.......now if I could just take pics like yours ;)

Jason

[mako56]

Didn't fair as well today lost about three and have a few more looking hungry. Must be that they all don't like the dry food put in a few more rots seeing none of my shrimp eggs hatched will have to get some for my next try. Otherwise most of them have full little round bellies almost looks like they could explode. Its all in the camera I just snap Jason.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Mike,

I have to admitt I am totally down now. Altough I feed super selco enriched rots mine are not at all changing size and color the same speed as yours. I have no clue what I do wrong?

How big is your larvae tank?
What do you use for enrichment?
Do you skim the larvae tank?

I am glad to see that yours make it that good and admire these pics but it is really disappointing me :(

[mako56]

Hey Pete don't feel to bad I ain't there yet either. My tank is a cheepy ten gallon cost me like $9.50. I think I have the L strain rots what ever that means and I have been feeding them with Instant Algae because I didn't figure out the phyto thing yet. but I put some rots in the tank with the babies and added some Instant Algae also to keep the rots fed and it seemed to work. No skimmer I just put in a sponge filter the other day but that isn't really doing much yet. This is my fourth try but my first really good one where I have been taught by the people here and I found a pal with the clownfish book so most of what I did was right. The next hard thing I see is the switch from rots to dry food. I don't have brine shrimp this time so I guess we will see how this works.

[mako56]

Hey folks got another update here I think I got it 17 Days and still over fifty left I have one or two die once in a while and it looks like they are not eating they have shunkin bellies. Just caught some more last night must of missed the big hatch cause I only caught about 25. I did catch some of those crab babies to so we will see what happens to them. Hers a couple pics.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_1177.jpg

And heres part of the gang.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_1185.jpg

[Peter Schmiedel]

Great Mike!

I only one left from Jan- 24th has since two days the coloration yours did show after day 11 :(

But I keep on going also this fish will never be "normal" I want to learn with it. The fish will probably end up as food for my sepia babies.

Next huge batch ready for hatching in the next days, but I have travels comming up and will be out for almost 2 weeks. So I dont try to raise them :(

[jnowell]

That's incredible Mike, way to go! You have made me decide that when I get ready to sell my babies, all the money is going towards a digital SLR! Still can't get over your pics.

Mine didn't hatch tonight, so I guess I have to wait..I'm too excited!

[MalawianDude]

taggin

[Peter Schmiedel]

My tow fish are nice an have coloration now, so bigest trouble seems to be over. I made the mistake to put them together :( they started fighting and I had to split again.

What surpirsed me is that they have white bars?? Does one know when they get the golden coloration as papa has:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/reefsafe/premnas_biaculeatus.jpg

[Dman]

MIke,
Looking great.
Bump up the air, once they get past meta they can handle the water flow and need the extra O2. I noticed a HUGE difference in their energy levels when I turned 'er up.
Peter,
I noticed that mine take as much as 10-12 months and as little as 8 months to start showing noticable yellow colouration

[Kathy55g]

good advice. I think it really helped with my bunch.

[Dman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6793892#post6793892 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kathy55g
good advice. I think it really helped with my bunch.

Ya, seriously.
I had no idea how much until I experimented (less experiment and more "let's try this"). The results were night and day.
I'll post a pic of one of my batches later on.

[mako56]

Ya Dman I did turn it up and added the sponge filter but I think I could add another air stone or maybe a bar. The do have plenty of energy that's why you don't see any pics can't get them to sit still long enough. :lol: Still have fifty or so left after they got used to eating the dry food haven't had any more deaths. Thinking about catching the next batch should be like Thursday or Friday. The last batch I caught lost the brand new heater I got and its replacement also must of been a bad batch of heaters or something any ways the temp was like 72 for a long time but there still are a dozen or so left in there. Got a different brand heater this time. Thanks for the advice.

[Kathy55g]

please tell us which brands so we can avoid them.....

[Dman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6797031#post6797031 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kathy55g
please tell us which brands so we can avoid them.....

Please do, but you might want to be careful here.

[r00onmac]

if were talking heaters for a second (not to get off topic) i have found the visi-therm stealth heaters to keep temps with less than a 1 degree swing either way consistantly... visi-therm has other models, but the stealth models seem to work the best... seems to be because of the aluminum tube inside shatterproof plastic instead of glass...

[Kathy55g]

Not only that, but they are black plastic, so no light to attract the larvae. And one can turn the knob and know that you have done that because there is a dial and a scale on them. I love them although I have heard that they sometimes don't work. I have not had that experience with the two 100W ones that I own.

[Atticus]

I have good luck with Tronic heaters.

[Dman]

Better late than.....


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/659mini-6_month_old_GSM_s_crop.jpg


Definately one of my better batch's

[Kathy55g]

THAT's a lotta clowns!

[Dman]

Thanks,
And seriously, since switching to Otohime as the primary second food source the majority of my WSM and GSM survivals are just as successful.

[mako56]

I took your advice and got some of that. They sell it in smaller quantities now and I got to say it seems to work great. I didn't even feed brine shrimp went right from rots to that and only lost about 3 or 4. Oh ya that heater was Aquatic Gardens from Petco but it must be some bad ones or something but I had two of them quit on me. Putting the tape on them wouldn't cause them to go bad would it?

[VWD]

Mike and Everyone else here on this tread, It is really great reading all this from start to end. I am having trouble with H.Riedi Seahorses, I am on my 2nd batch and only have 4 alive on day 8. The original batch was small maybe 40 or so. I have gained so much info from all of you. Jessica gave me the link and thank You Jessica.


Mike Job well done

[Kathy55g]

Tape should not make them go bad.
My last batch on Otohime for the first time use (from beginning day 6) is at day 11, most have headbands, and I have never had such an active, good looking bunch. I fed NHBS exactly 3 times.

Other things I did differently with this batch: twice daily siphoning and replacement with fresh saltwater on drip, one more airstone, bringing it to 3 seperate air sources.

It's my personal best, and there are at least 100 larvae/juveniles in there! Let's hope I don't blow it!

[mako56]

Thanks VWD I did do it but everyone here took me by the hand and fixed all the things I was doing wrong. Now that I have done it don't know what to do with them all. Our favorite uncle (Sam) takes way to much of my money so I am really considering making myself a new deduction and start a fish and coral farm maybe even have a guy I know set up a website to sell the stuff. If it all worked it would be so cool but if it didn't I could still of had fun with some of the money they take away from me.

Way to go Kathy !!!!!!!!!! I think I really like the Otohime too thanks Dman. There still has to be around fifty of mine still left they just fly around playing with each other. They are about 3/8" long now. Think I need to try and give them another photo shock session. :lol:

[VWD]

Your Welcome, Mike

[Feelers]

Hey Mike awesome job!,

I'm thinking of giving breeding clowns a go. I'm thinking of having 2 phyto cultures and a rot culture, and bbs when the need arises.
One thing is I'm in NZ and cant get the products you guys have access to like Otohime- will I still be fine?

What would you say were the important elements in your success? And what's your flitration/cleaning schedual on the fry tank? How did you set up your rot cultures ect?

Nice photos - its cool to actually see the fry in detail!!

Its great to see your progress. :D , no doubt I'll be asking many a question a wee bit down the line.

[Dman]

Feelers,
Try HERE (http://www.reed-mariculture.com/distributor/distributor.asp) and scroll down to Austrailia, see if he can help.

[Feelers]

Thanks Dman, do you think I'll be ok with out it? I'm not after max numbers - just doing it to see if I can, and to get some experience with aquaculture which is my intended career. (im a poor student haha)

I was thinking that rots and bbs fed on 2 species of phyto would be ok?
Why do you make the swap in foods? Is it just easier, or does the food get too small?

An article you guys might be interested in (specificially the brine shrimp enrichment thing) if you havent already seen it....
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/invert.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/invert.htm

One cool thing about breeding over here - the prices make it much more worth while than it sounds for you guys. They sell (I think) for around $80NZD each. So I would probably be able to get about 1/2 that.

What size do you guys think would be minimum for a breeding pair of these clowns? Since I'm on a budget I want small but roomy enough for them to be happy.

[mako56]

So you don't have a pair yet? That is the first big hurdle there are people that try for years to get a breeding pair. But I think its in your feeding. I feed my fish a mix of krill, myst shrimp, plankton, and blood worms not saying you need all of this thats just what I feed. I am by no means any kind of expert here but I think I got it figured out enough to make it work.

I didn't mess with phyto but I might someday I used instant algae and L strain rots. I caught the fry at night and put them in a ten gallon tank about half full of filtered tank water mixed with fresh water so the salt content was around 1.018. The next day I put in a bunch of rots and some of the instant alae. I clean the bottom of the tank when it gets dirty. The rots never run out as they must be multiplying faster than the babies can eat them. ( I only had around fifty or so babies). My brine shrimp eggs were to old and didn't hatch so I just fed the Otohime and some other kind of fry food I got from my other food supplier it looks almost like the Otohime. I would say I started them on this at day 8 but I left the rots in there too. To me this seems like one of the hardest things for the babies going from rots to dry food lots of people here just grind up flake food but I haven't tried that yet. I put one of those ammonia badges in the tank and watch it I think I changed about a gallon a day for like a week after day 8. On day 12 I put in a sponge filter and it seems to be taking care of the ammonia now. Its still a big experiment to me so we can all learn together this is just some of what I did.

[Feelers]

On the getting a breeding pair front, I met a guy who is keen to sell a pair(of oscars) that are doing the mating dance but havent spawned before. I was thinking a good diet(as you suggest) for those two and perhaps it might happen.
Well, I think I'll go the striaght phyto-rot-bbs-bs-flake route. I'll have quite a lot of time to be able to prepare the food, so it should be ok. I'm just worried that the phyto fed live food wont be enough without a specialised larvae food like the Otohime.
But I suppose I'll find out.... :)

[BlackOnyx]

what micron size Otohime are you guys using?

[mako56]

Size A BlackOnyx.

[mako56]

Well heres an update. Week six or seven they are all different sizes I moved them into a bigger tank and the were 63 of them. Hard little buggers to catch. I have two other batches going also one is just two days old and the other is about three weeks. I put one of the middle group in with the older ones and he seems to be fine there was thinking of just moving them all. Is that a bad idea? Anyways here is a pic, very hard to get one in focus now they just never stop moving and pose for me.:lol:

http://www.dropfiles.net/files/862/Week%206.jpg

[jnowell]

Looking very good Mike, I didn't have much luck combining my Clarks, but maroons may be different (I now have a pair of gold stripe maroons, so I may be picking your brain before long ;) )

If they are pretty drn close to the same size, and you have a big enough tank, it might work. I just had better luck getting the food to them in smaller areas. Let us know if you try it, i'd like to hear if you have better luck than me, I lost a bunch when I tried it, they fought like crazy.

Jason

[mako56]

I have seen your thread the clowns and there anemone are just beautiful.


:lol: Please don't pick to hard theres not much up there. :lol:

I have moved only one and he seems to be ok I am going to try another five or so and see what happens. They are all so scrappy.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Mike,

who many of yours are with irregular bands as the one on the pic? Reason why I am asking is that mine do show a lot of missbarring also I cant see a flaw on the parents.

[mako56]

Hey Pete, more of them are banded like that than have bands all the way around I am not sure what that means but I did read somewhere here that it has to do with stresses they put up with when they are getting the strips. My ma fish is miss banded but the old man's stripes look pretty good.

[mako56]

Heres a pic of ma.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/31094IMG_04321-med.JPG

[TamiW]

Beautiful big girl, I'm waiting for my lady to grow up so I can get her a mate.

[Tinemoon]

Hi everybody in this wonderful forum. :)

I would like to take this opportunity and introduce myself, since I have been reading here for a long time and have found soooo much important information. Especially in the "breeders forum.

My name is Martina, I am from Germany and I am trying to breed Amphiprion Ocellaris now for about three months.

My first batch has been the most successful so far. Appr. 45 have survived and are still with me - I just cannot bear the thought of selling them at this point :(

I still have lots of questions - since your way of feeding is a little different - except for the rots and the phytoplankton.


I will try to attach a pic of my first batch at appr. day 29

I am looking forward to posting here and hope I will still be able to learn a lot from all of you - Thanx :)

[oyvind]

Grüss Dich Martina!!
Nice that others from Europe also take part in breeding salt water fish!

[mako56]

Very nice to meet you. I haven't been doing this for very long but it is working pretty good. Anyways

http://www.reefcentral.com/images/welcome.gif

I will try to help with anything I can there were allot of very good people posting here with allot of info.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Wenn wir so weiter machen haben wir bald deutsche Threads hier *grins*

I am glad that we are internattional, make great fun the share expierence worldwide!

[Tuddy]

micron size Otohime

I think he was meaning is it 50-100 micron or is 100-200 micron

I have been feeding my baby bangai's Golden Pearl in the 100-200 micron.

This looks very simular to the Otohime.

Have a look and let me know what you guys think. I only managed to get 3 Bangaii babies from my reef tank but it is day 18 with no losses. only enriched artemia shrimp for the first 8 days now I feed them on day 1 to day 3 artemia shrimp along with golden pearl 100-200 2-3 times daily.

Golden Pearl
Available in Seven particle Sizes
(Note: The larger the micron number, the larger the particle size. A newly hatched brine shrimp is about 400 microns.)

Active Spheres Golden Pearls: 5-50 microns
Rotifer Size I Golden Pearls: 50-100 microns
Rotifer Size II Golden Pearls: 100-200 microns
(Rotifer/Artemia replacement)
Artemia Size I Golden Pearls: 200-300 microns
(Artemia replacement)
Artemia Size II Golden Pearls: 300-500 microns
Weaning Diet Golden Pearls: 500-800 microns
Juvenile Diet Golden Pearls: 800-1000 microns

Proximate Analysis
Protein: 60%
Lipids: 18%
Ash: 15%
Moisture: 8%
Vitamin C: 1000 ppm
Vitamin E: 400 ppm
Astaxanthin: 500 ppm

Cheers Andrew

[mako56]

Well I am having a few deaths lately I need to be better at giving them new water, but most seem pretty happy. Some are close to the 1 inch mark. I copied Kathy's version of the fry snatcher and all have to say is WOW THIS THING IS GREAT. Got the biggest catch I ever had with hardly any time involved. Thanks to everyone that had a hand in this contraption.

[Snarkys]

great thread

im also interested if anyone has tried the goldenpearls

[mako56]

Well sold the first two babies today.:( :) :( :) :( :) :( :) And it feels kind wierd but I caught another batch last night and with Kathy or whoever invented the cather you wind up with hungreds of babies instead of maybe 100 or less so its off we go. I am sure it gets easier RIGHT?

[nutshells]

wow.. This is very informative article. THanks

[spookybfc]

Hey Mako good job and congrats on the batch.
I would like to have a setup to hatch clown fish. I currently have one pair of Maroon gold stripe in my main tank and going to get another pair for a 30 gallon tank. If they start to lay eggs i want to try and raise them myself.
I was wondering if you could take a few pictures of your setup like the tank and filtration system so i know what to work on.
I have my Phyto growing and Ratifiers as well so feeding wont be a problem.
If anyone else out there has pictures of their setup i would like to see those too. PM me if you like.

Thanks
Leo.

[mako56]

Boy I thought this thread died. Thanks for the comments most of what I did was because all the nice people here took me by the hand and led me through the process. I still have some of the babies from the first hatch the pet stores around here will only give me 4 bucks apiece for them. I guess I will just let them have them for what ever I can get. It was a very cool experience and now I can say that I have done it there just isn't any market for them in my area it just isn't worth all the time and money that I have stuck into it. I am dreaming of maybe starting my own coral farm and then raising the babies might be better who knows maybe next year I will get that going. The other day I found some baby cardinals in my overflows I think I would have better luck selling them. If you read though this I was told that maroons were not a good choice but that's what I had and like I said I am glad that I did it so many people thought it was so cool to be able to pull it off I even had a lady at the pet store (a customer) shake my hand that felt really nice. I will get some pics for you spookybfc of what I did it was really pretty simple and if it was set up better it would not be so much work and then maybe it would be worth it I guess. I just don't have the spare time anymore.

[scottcc]

I have pair of maroons two years now and now eggs?... What am I doing wrong?

[mako56]

I know a guy that has like six pairs for at least that long and no eggs yet. I really am not sure I would guess that they must feel really comfortable. Nice home and a good diet I was just lucky I guess I wasn't even trying (maybe that’s the secret :lol:) and like I said now I have baby cardinals in my overflows go figure. If I was trying I would just feed them a mix of some good frozen foods.