Petco, where I dont go...Anymore!(img INTENSE)

[MAreefer1]

This is deffinatly not just a fish store, but a torture fishery, I visited two Petcos tonight in MA, and I was ASTONISHED! I found many VIOLATIONS of fish keeping, and when I questioned the staff, they were highly un-educated about salt water fish!

I asked some staff members a few questions ... supposobly trained to know all about fish, atleast thats what it said on there name tag,
_____________________________________________


Question: How often do you change the water In the salt water tanks?

Answer: " Iv worked here for 2 years, and I dont think we eva have changed the water."

Question(illigetimate, and just a test): How many yellow tangs can I Put in my ten gallon?

Answer: "I think 4 or 5 would look nice."( said with much enthusiasm):worried:

Question( you wont like the answer): Can I put this purple tang in my 30 gallon fresh water?

Answer: "shure why not, just as long its the only fish in the tank, I think."

Question: What kind of light do I need to grow these corals?

Answer: " Whats a coral?"
____________________________________________

Some Pretty SCARY pictures:



Can anyone give me an ID on this coral?
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9615/petcowheridontgo60065jo.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

These brown polyps were being kept under low low lighting!
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2687/petcowheridontgo60090re.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

Green Mushrooms

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9496/petcowheridontgo60107uc.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

TANG POLICE TANG POLICE HELP!!!
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4179/petcowheridontgo60174df.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

This is the other side of the tank above.
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6705/petcowheridontgo60184zx.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

These three fish were in the same 15 gallon tank TOGETHER!

The 3 in. Clown Trigger is WAY over Priced.

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3535/petcowheridontgo60211jz.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9641/petcowheridontgo60292tz.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img422.imageshack.us/img422/5793/petcowheridontgo60306re.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>






LOOK AT THAT ANGEL IN THIS PICTURE: ITS A 5 INCHER!
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/788/petcowheridontgo60172vg.jpg" border="0" width="389" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>





I know Im kind of ragging on Petco, but they def. should not be carrying those livestock in there stores when they obviously DO NOT
care about them the least bit. I took these pictures listening to the intercom announcmet:
"Here at Petco, We take great care in the health of our Pets"

Do you get my point yet, Does anyone have feedback or comments please feel free to leave any.

[lachrimae]

To be fair, I met one "fish guy" at PetCo that knew more about reefing than any of my LFS "specialists". I know that's not saying much but I was impressed that he recommeded not to purchase a Naso until it had sat there for another week or two while acclimating after the long trip in.

[Dubbin1]

Well most people know how bad Petco is but what are you trying to prove with the pictures? You see the same stuff in every other LFS as what you took pictures of. The prices you showed are right in line with what I see all the time at the LFS's.

[Amphiprion]

What can you do, eh? There is no real way to stop such an operation as long as the company continues to make money--whether it is at the expense of the hobbyist or not. Showing photos and complaining cant solve much, but never going there again (as in your thread title) will be the best course of action. This is not necessarily because they will lose business (as they will find a new customer as quickly as they lose one), but so you will not have to witness it again. But I agree, it is not a pretty sight and is distasteful to say the least.

[physicslord]

I'll say one thing for PETSMART, they sell the supplies but they don't sell any saltwater fish.

[Shawnts106]

To be fair, I met one "fish guy" at PetCo that knew more about reefing than any of my LFS "specialists".

Yeah, but that is rare and hard to find now "adays"...

These questions and answers are really hard to believe, geeze, unbelievable how uneducated people working for an establishment like that are!...

kinda like going to the doctor and asking what to do about a cough, and the doctor replys "whats a cough?"...
... ok, sorta!...

We will be having a petco built here in Oxford soon, and with 2 LFS only a mile or two down the ROAD!!!... I dont think the petco will hold up long at all...

[MAreefer1]

But the cruelty torwards the animals is horrible, and they are not healthy at all, do you see that at your LFS????????

I dont think so, there always well kept up, I have never bought from Petco and never will.

[CrazyLionfish]

I agree with Dubbin on this one. I have heard many many bad experiences of petco like what you're showing with your questions, but in the pictures I don't see any dead/sick fish and the prices aren't too bad, so not sure what you're trying to show from those either. The PetCo near me used to be ok, but is now horrible!! The fish used to look healthy their and I got an undulated trigger for $15 that has been doing great for 2+ years in my tank. But when I went their last week, not one fish looked healthy.

Did he really say you could put a purple tang in a 30 gallon freshwater? lol That seems too dumb to be true.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6367987#post6367987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shawnts106
Yeah, but that is rare and hard to find now "adays"...

These questions and answers are really hard to believe, geeze, unbelievable how uneducated people working for an establishment like that are!...

kinda like going to the doctor and asking what to do about a cough, and the doctor replys "whats a cough?"...
... ok, sorta!...

We will be having a petco built here in Oxford soon, and with 2 LFS only a mile or two down the ROAD!!!... I dont think the petco will hold up long at all...


These questions are true, I know they might seem unbeivable, but its the sad truth.:( :( :(

[CrazyLionfish]

Sorry by the time I typed that.. I think.. I see you've added captions for the pictures which helps. I think that first coral is a very sick looking bubble coral, not sure. I now understand the pictures except the last one, they could have sold that angel before you got there.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368003#post6368003 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CrazyLionfish
I agree with Dubbin on this one. I have heard many many bad experiences of petco like what you're showing with your questions, but in the pictures I don't see any dead/sick fish and the prices aren't too bad, so not sure what you're trying to show from those either. The PetCo near me used to be ok, but is now horrible!! The fish used to look healthy their and I got an undulated trigger for $15 that has been doing great for 2+ years in my tank. But when I went their last week, not one fish looked healthy.

Did he really say you could put a purple tang in a 30 gallon freshwater? lol That seems too dumb to be true.

UNFORTUNATLY yes it was true... she was so uneducated to be working in the fish department, maybe she should be working with the squeeky toys for dogs...:rolleye1:

[MAreefer1]

no Im sayin that the Angel is in the middle of the tank under the fake coral thingy, in the tank with the 6 or seven yellow tangs, 2 miger triggers, and a pink tailed trigger.

[CrazyLionfish]

Sorry my mistake, I see it now.

[Saltz Creep]

I once saw a yellow tang at Petco with no eyes whatsoever and the body was totally skin and bone. Rather than just putting the animal out of it's misery or giving it away, they were trying to make a buck off of it by selling it at a reduced price. That's just sick.

[MAreefer1]

Wow... Ya I seen something like that before, but with percula clowns, there were 4 DEAD clowns floating around the tank, eyeless, and almost totally white, and to top it off, being eatin buy 9 or 10 other clowns in the tank!

[Worldwithin]

There is a LFS near me that makes Petco look like the best fish store in the world.... No pictures available, but just imagine a7 - 8 inch emperor angel in a 10 x 10 cube. The tank was the length of the wall, but divided up into many smaller areas to keep the fish away from each other. This poor guy had just enough room to turn around, and that was it. Top that off with over medicated water (basically yellow water), and you have yourself a LFS that has no concern for its livestock. If it were not for the fact that I am unable to house that poor little guy, I would have taken it home to give it a real home, not just a friggen box to live in.

I wish there was somewhere that one could go to and complain about the conditions that some of these stores provide for these fish. I would comment to the owner, but I have a feeling that they really don't care. (I won't get into details as to avoid offending anyone). The only option that I can come up with is to inform local reefers to avoid the shop and spread the word.

I just about get sick when I go in there to see if there is anything I can save from them.

:fish1::hammer:

[tdman3627]

Hey i work at a petco in gainesville FL, i got hired there because i know a lot about fish. Our department is way better looking than the pics you posted above. Most of the time with the fish overcrowding is because of some retard up in the corporate office. I have almost been fired three times by a big wiq from getting in there face about the pushes of fish they send us. As far as prices go we are cheaper than any of the lfs's in gainesville, and our fish are all healthy. We dont have any corals in our tanks because i wont let our manager order them or ill quit lol. They pretty much let me call all the shots. I would take pics but we arent allowed and i dont know how you got those pics lol they are supposed to stop you so you dont go make a petco sucks website. Anyways thought I would share a little bit, not sure if it helped.
Ryan

[rizkeeper]

petco can be bad, but I don't see much wrong with those pics...other than the brown GSP....

No LFS is going to put 3 small yellow tangs in a 200g tank.....it's product in and producto out at all LFS, petco or not....

I've seen way way worse at Petco and other LFS....

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368302#post6368302 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tdman3627
Hey i work at a petco in gainesville FL, i got hired there because i know a lot about fish. Our department is way better looking than the pics you posted above. Most of the time with the fish overcrowding is because of some retard up in the corporate office. I have almost been fired three times by a big wiq from getting in there face about the pushes of fish they send us. As far as prices go we are cheaper than any of the lfs's in gainesville, and our fish are all healthy. We dont have any corals in our tanks because i wont let our manager order them or ill quit lol. They pretty much let me call all the shots. I would take pics but we arent allowed and i dont know how you got those pics lol they are supposed to stop you so you dont go make a petco sucks website. Anyways thought I would share a little bit, not sure if it helped.
Ryan


How can we get more people like you up north?

[rizkeeper]

petco can be bad, but I don't see much wrong with those pics...other than the brown GSP....

No LFS is going to put 3 small yellow tangs in a 200g tank.....it's product in and producto out at all LFS, petco or not....

I've seen way way worse at Petco and other LFS....

I don't think your interview summary is too accurate...very hard to believe

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368373#post6368373 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rizkeeper
petco can be bad, but I don't see much wrong with those pics...other than the brown GSP....

No LFS is going to put 3 small yellow tangs in a 200g tank.....it's product in and producto out at all LFS, petco or not....

I've seen way way worse at Petco and other LFS....

I don't think your interview summary is too accurate...very hard to believe


Well if you visited this fish store you would believe, they hired employees totally unqualified for the job description!

It wouldnt be too hard to remember answers like that... If the person who I asked was qualified then I would have looked stupid asking the question about the 30 gallon fresh, but I took my chances in search of the truth about Petco...

[Andrew]

They can keep alot of tangs in a smaller tank because the tangs won't be there for long before they are sold. Flamming lfs isn't a good idea. If you don't like the lfs then don't go to it.

[reefshadow]

The first coral is a badly receded bubble coral. Probably a goner.

There are so many problems with most Petco's, where to start?

First, they have a regional manager who oversees many stores and makes sure things are run according to the corporate "plan". Even a skilled aquarist working in the fish department has little leeway on what products can be ordered or used. Thus they are not up to date on decent equipment or techniques. The petco in my area had to wait a couple of months before they could have corporate fix their already crappy skimmer in the sump chamber at the bottom of the marine system. Upgrades on lights, pumps, skimmers, etc. are not allowed.

If the aquatics manager or a specialist is not available you have someone from another department to "help" you. For a novice hobbiest this is bad news.

Corporate HQ will buy lot orders of fish, many times in the thousands. They are then distributed to stores across the states. The manager at our Petco has complained many times about receiving way too many fish of a type not needed such as 20 perculas when there were already 15 in the store. The aquatics manager can make orders of needed fish but many in the shipments are sent without a request. The last few shipments that came into our area store were at about 60 degrees as well. They bag and freeze any DOAs or casualties and do not take a financial loss on them, thus there is little pressure to improve things.

At least twice someone in the store has left the FW top off valve open overnight, flooding the marine tanks and killing every fish and invert in the system. Corporate won't let them put a lock on the sump/top off chamber.

They will sell obviously sick and dying, unhealthy fish. Reduced price? That's a laugh. Quarantine? Hehe. Doesn't happen. Not at our area store. Corpaorate will not allow them to set up a real display or a quarantine tank. All the marine tanks are one system so all fish and inverts are subjected to the same conditions.

Best policy is to try not to add to the problem by buying their live animals or products. In an area like ours it is hard though, the nearest real LFS is 2 hours away.

They should not be in the business of selling ANY live animals AT ALL. It's funny because a point of pride with them is that they do not sell puppies or kittens. I suppose smaller animals like the birds, rodents, fish and reptiles just don't rate.

Beleive it or not, most of the knowledgeable employees feel a sense of frustration as well. Their hands are really tied in alot of ways.

I wrote a letter a couple of years back to corporate HQ detailing what I see to be big problems. I received no reply.

I guess I wasn't suprised.

[Kent E]

I can top this! I once went into Petco and ALL THE FISH WERE DEAD. The entire stock was killed, massive wipeout.

I still shop there, tee hee.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368564#post6368564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefshadow
The first coral is a badly receded bubble coral. Probably a goner.

There are so many problems with most Petco's, where to start?

First, they have a regional manager who oversees many stores and makes sure things are run according to the corporate "plan". Even a skilled aquarist working in the fish department has little leeway on what products can be ordered or used. Thus they are not up to date on decent equipment or techniques. The petco in my area had to wait a couple of months before they could have corporate fix their already crappy skimmer in the sump chamber at the bottom of the marine system. Upgrades on lights, pumps, skimmers, etc. are not allowed.

If the aquatics manager or a specialist is not available you have someone from another department to "help" you. For a novice hobbiest this is bad news.

Corporate HQ will buy lot orders of fish, many times in the thousands. They are then distributed to stores across the states. The manager at our Petco has complained many times about receiving way too many fish of a type not needed such as 20 perculas when there were already 15 in the store. The aquatics manager can make orders of needed fish but many in the shipments are sent without a request. The last few shipments that came into our area store were at about 60 degrees as well. They bag and freeze any DOAs or casualties and do not take a financial loss on them, thus there is little pressure to improve things.

At least twice someone in the store has left the FW top off valve open overnight, flooding the marine tanks and killing every fish and invert in the system. Corporate won't let them put a lock on the sump/top off chamber.

They will sell obviously sick and dying, unhealthy fish. Reduced price? That's a laugh. Quarantine? Hehe. Doesn't happen. Not at our area store. Corpaorate will not allow them to set up a real display or a quarantine tank. All the marine tanks are one system so all fish and inverts are subjected to the same conditions.

Best policy is to try not to add to the problem by buying their live animals or products. In an area like ours it is hard though, the nearest real LFS is 2 hours away.

They should not be in the business of selling ANY live animals AT ALL. It's funny because a point of pride with them is that they do not sell puppies or kittens. I suppose smaller animals like the birds, rodents, fish and reptiles just don't rate.

Beleive it or not, most of the knowledgeable employees feel a sense of frustration as well. Their hands are really tied in alot of ways.

I wrote a letter a couple of years back to corporate HQ detailing what I see to be big problems. I received no reply.

I guess I wasn't suprised.

Wow...thanks for your input, I have a much better understanding of the corperate side of the story, but I still feel that condition should improve(which they never will), so your right, just dont feed the fire, thats buring down a house.

[reefshadow]

Flamming lfs isn't a good idea. If you don't like the lfs then don't go to it.

Agreed, but Petco is not an LFS. It is a huge corporation.

An LFS cares about the health of their livestock because their livlihood depends on happy customers and repeat business. They specialize in the husbandry of fish. Even the most hole in the wall LFS I have seen far outstrips Petco.

Petco cares about being in the black. Bottom line. I can guarantee they don't get there by fish sales.

[MAreefer1]

true true, but I dont understand why so many people still go to petco.

[stevebydac]

I saw a similar thread on another website two days ago and got so upset I wrote an email to them telling them about their poor husbandry. I also mentioned that if things didn't improve at my local stores I would report them to the ASPCA. Here is their contact info:

http://www.petco.com/Content/ContactUs.aspx?PC=contactus&Nav=166

[reefshadow]

I don't either, MAreefer :(

I think though that Petco is often a jumping off point for hobbiests. I had never seen a real marine aquarium but I fell in love with the clownfish when I went there for something totally unrelated. Before I knew it I had bought a 29 gallon tank, 1 Azoo powerhead, a HOT magnum filter, crushed coral substrate and a piece of tufa rock, 15 watt No fluorescent. I then stocked according to advice. 2 perculas, a small YT, 5 damsels and a LMB. Predictably, everything died within a few days. I wonder how many potential hobbiests stop there thinking they can't do it?

I think Petco snares many brand new marine aquarists.

Thanks for starting this thread, I think it's an important issue.

[Kinetic]

wow, those petco pictures look better than the petco's in my area.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368709#post6368709 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefshadow
I don't either, MAreefer :(

I think though that Petco is often a jumping off point for hobbiests. I had never seen a real marine aquarium but I fell in love with the clownfish when I went there for something totally unrelated. Before I knew it I had bought a 29 gallon tank, 1 Azoo powerhead, a HOT magnum filter, crushed coral substrate and a piece of tufa rock, 15 watt No fluorescent. I then stocked according to advice. 2 perculas, a small YT, 5 damsels and a LMB. Predictably, everything died within a few days. I wonder how many potential hobbiests stop there thinking they can't do it?

I think Petco snares many brand new marine aquarists.

Thanks for starting this thread, I think it's an important issue.

Yep...sometimes it looks too drawing in, and with the large big and tuff looking corporation that Petco is, new hobbiests will start out there on the Wrong foot, with untrained employees,and end up getting discouraged when nemo dies because someone told them at Petco that he could go in a glass bowl with "one eye" the gold fish( sarcasm, hopefully has never happened), that is a setback for marine aquariust everyhere.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368693#post6368693 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stevebydac
I saw a similar thread on another website two days ago and got so upset I wrote an email to them telling them about their poor husbandry. I also mentioned that if things didn't improve at my local stores I would report them to the ASPCA. Here is their contact info:

http://www.petco.com/Content/ContactUs.aspx?PC=contactus&Nav=166


Do you notice how they adress what the email is about:

A:Question/Suggestion
B:Compliment
C:CONCERN


wh can't it be a COMPLAINT... did they ever respond to your Concern?:rolleye1:

[fakename]

1) That sales person you are jumping all over, and fooling with your 'clever' questions, probably works very hard for minimum wages. Why are you suprised that some high-school aged, minimum wage employee does not have in depth reef aquarium knowledge. That employee is not even paid enough to have their own reef aquarium.
Minimum wage does NOT attract skilled employees.
2) Unfortunately lots of aquarium stores, even "good" stores, give terrible advice, and try to sell product you do not need.
3) While it would not be appropriate for tangs to LIVE in that tank FOREVER, it is probably an appropriate holding tank until they are sold.....at least on par with what is standard in the industry.
4) Yes PetCo is a terrible store. It's hard to imagine that anyone on this board seriously shops at big box stores like that! My guess would be that their business is almost totally restricted to impulse buying first timers.......

Aaron

[Orangeman]

Reefshadow, you think a LFS doesn't care about being in the black? All businesses have to make money or they go out of business. That said, I didn't see bloody murder in the initial photos except maybe the coral. You saw several tangs in a small tank. Did you see several large tangs in a small tank? Fish in ... fish out.

But the employee answers were seriously messed up...

[kidzatheart]

$109.99 for a 3 inch clown trigger is high. I bought my 3 inch clown trigger NOT on sale for $25.00. All i could do when i read the questions was laugh although its sad. We dont have a Petco here in South Carolina where i live. Reading this thread makes me appreciate our LFS so much.

[reefshadow]

Reefshadow, you think a LFS doesn't care about being in the black? All businesses have to make money or they go out of business.

That was my point, maybe I didn't state it very clearly. Of course
LFS's care about being in the black. FISH are their livlihood. (thus the F in LFS). PETCO, however, is NOT an "lfs". They don't make their profit off fish and invert sales and their business does not depend on presenting a good image with their fish department. They make their money off of pet supplies.

Also, FWIW, Those pics don't look so bad and I didn't say anything about them except to point out that the first one was a receding bubble coral. But IMO there is a big problem with Petcos corporate tactics and policies. They should not sell animals, period. They have problems in all their animal departments. The design of the reptile system is bad too. The rodents are often overcrowded and have wet tail, and they sell very sensitive birds that are definately not for novices.

Employees at minimum wage with poor training and incentive just cannot keep up, and corporate HQ won't let them anyway.

[grimmjohn]

From the inside looking out () : )
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=674799&perpage=25&pagenumber=3

I second the underpaid () : )
I work about 40 hours a week and I'm on track to make a big'ol 1K a month...that's what I get for trying to make a difference :rolleyes:
If I'm not in the store and/or at the aquatics and reptiles dept. then they go to hell and God knows what you'll get told...unfortuantly when I'm in the store I'm more likely to be stocking or running little errands or the cash register than where I applied/hired to be *sigh.*

The pics don't look worse than any LFS I've been to, around here the clown trigger would go for $80 though. If you've never seen a coral skeleton at a LFS you haven't gone enough () : )

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[Ricky@3rdshift]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368564#post6368564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefshadow
The first coral is a badly receded bubble coral. Probably a goner.

There are so many problems with most Petco's, where to start?

First, they have a regional manager who oversees many stores and makes sure things are run according to the corporate "plan". Even a skilled aquarist working in the fish department has little leeway on what products can be ordered or used. Thus they are not up to date on decent equipment or techniques. The petco in my area had to wait a couple of months before they could have corporate fix their already crappy skimmer in the sump chamber at the bottom of the marine system. Upgrades on lights, pumps, skimmers, etc. are not allowed.

If the aquatics manager or a specialist is not available you have someone from another department to "help" you. For a novice hobbiest this is bad news.

Corporate HQ will buy lot orders of fish, many times in the thousands. They are then distributed to stores across the states. The manager at our Petco has complained many times about receiving way too many fish of a type not needed such as 20 perculas when there were already 15 in the store. The aquatics manager can make orders of needed fish but many in the shipments are sent without a request. The last few shipments that came into our area store were at about 60 degrees as well. They bag and freeze any DOAs or casualties and do not take a financial loss on them, thus there is little pressure to improve things.

At least twice someone in the store has left the FW top off valve open overnight, flooding the marine tanks and killing every fish and invert in the system. Corporate won't let them put a lock on the sump/top off chamber.

They will sell obviously sick and dying, unhealthy fish. Reduced price? That's a laugh. Quarantine? Hehe. Doesn't happen. Not at our area store. Corpaorate will not allow them to set up a real display or a quarantine tank. All the marine tanks are one system so all fish and inverts are subjected to the same conditions.

Best policy is to try not to add to the problem by buying their live animals or products. In an area like ours it is hard though, the nearest real LFS is 2 hours away.

They should not be in the business of selling ANY live animals AT ALL. It's funny because a point of pride with them is that they do not sell puppies or kittens. I suppose smaller animals like the birds, rodents, fish and reptiles just don't rate.

Beleive it or not, most of the knowledgeable employees feel a sense of frustration as well. Their hands are really tied in alot of ways.

I wrote a letter a couple of years back to corporate HQ detailing what I see to be big problems. I received no reply.

I guess I wasn't suprised.

I myself work at the local Petco part time to suppliment my income to buy my Sw equipment fish etc...

The above statement is very true in many ways. I help out in the aquatics when the "specialist" is backed up or has Sw ?'s or needs help w/ Sw issues.

I have finally worked my way into the consulting process when it comes to ordering fishes, and I have also taken on a project of changing out the CC substrate to Live sand. However this will be slow as they will only allow me 1 bag of sand per month so 1 small tank at a time and then 2 months wait for the bigger ones.

I do get frustrated, and I am by no means an expert, but I am more educated than most emplyees at my store about SW.

[reefshadow]

You guys are the exception to the rule and thanks for sticking it out. You can help make a difference.

:)

[donski]

I usually won't go near a store that sells anything but fish. I've seen much worse than the photos here. And as far as employees, at the big dog, cat ,fish ,bird and reptile store...most are just happy to have a job, but there are some people out there (usually at a smaller LFS than bigger multiple pet stores) who really know their sh** but are way underpaid.

[stevebydac]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368792#post6368792 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
Do you notice how they adress what the email is about:

A:Question/Suggestion
B:Compliment
C:CONCERN


wh can't it be a COMPLAINT... did they ever respond to your Concern?:rolleye1:

No response yet. In fairness to them, I sent it two days ago, and few companies respond quickly. We'll see...

[MAreefer1]

I cant wait to see there response

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6369314#post6369314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky@3rdshift
I myself work at the local Petco part time to suppliment my income to buy my Sw equipment fish etc...

The above statement is very true in many ways. I help out in the aquatics when the "specialist" is backed up or has Sw ?'s or needs help w/ Sw issues.

I have finally worked my way into the consulting process when it comes to ordering fishes, and I have also taken on a project of changing out the CC substrate to Live sand. However this will be slow as they will only allow me 1 bag of sand per month so 1 small tank at a time and then 2 months wait for the bigger ones.

I do get frustrated, and I am by no means an expert, but I am more educated than most emplyees at my store about SW.

Its a start...slow and steady,

[MAreefer1]

Another issue still needed to adress is how diseased there fish are. Petco is truning aound and selling these fish, even infested with disease!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=5767100#post5767100 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tom_Nev
In the area I live there are 3 Petco's (and only 1 real LFS which isn't that local and of dubious quality at best). Here's my problem, I've been in each of the Petco's several times over the last few months. EVERY time I've been in, in each store, the marine fish are INFESTED with parasites and diseases. Additionally, they commonly have fish dying or dead in the tanks.

Yesterday, I went in to one of them and spoke with the attendant. They just received a shipment of fish that day (earlier in the day). A number of the newly arrived fish were already infested. I'm talking about 1 powder blue tang, a half dozen bursa triggers, 3 scopas tangs, some tomato clowns, 2 ocellaris clowns and a dozen varied damsels (At LEAST). I asked the attendant (short form), "what is going on with the fish, every time I'm in here they fish are infested and dying". She says, "I know it's very sad. Corporate won't even let us treat them, but sometimes we try to anyway. We just got some new ones today and they were really stressed out, some already had ich". This store is the best of the three with regard to the condition of their marine fish.

I went into another today. Half the tanks empty (I thought whew!). Then I see a volitan lion bloated and dead in the corner of one tank with a pair of niger triggers lying next to him panting.

This is despicable. Anyone else see anything like this at Petco? I'll be writing and calling them to complain LOUDLY, as well as suggesting they either get it right, or get out of the marine business. I had given it a few months to see if it was just an aberration, buts it's not, it appears as if this is business as usual. I have seen at least 4 shipments of fish, in each of the three stores (12 total), each end with similar results (once in awhile a particularly hardy specimen makes it a month).

If anyone else has seen this, I hope you'd also write, call, whatever (more voices is likey to make more of an impression)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...25&pagenumber=3
___________________________________________________

[mikeatjac]

All LFS stores have to be in the black if they are to stay in business. I am lucky to have many in my area. If I don't like one I tell them why and spend my money else where.
If you want to make a difference, then effect their bottom line.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6369755#post6369755 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mikeatjac
All LFS stores have to be in the black if they are to stay in business. I am lucky to have many in my area. If I don't like one I tell them why and spend my money else where.
If you want to make a difference, then effect their bottom line.

Well said, its true (im sayin it again but), dont feed the fire.
LArge corporations are slowly taking over This country, and im not to fond of it. Another instance is Walmart, Dont even get me startred about there Fresh water "FISH CARE," there so bad, its beyond anything... but big companies like Petco, and Walmart, are becoming The base of a future where, the Producers control what the consumers get, no longer a consumers game, we go to Walmart now because its cheap, and the prices seem to good to be true, but just wait 5-10 years, and watch how there company will grow and many other buiness will be abolished, it will sadly become the,
(sarcasm)--->"united states of Wlamsts," <---(sarcasm). Walmart seem dormant now, but it is slowly creeping up on us.:eek:

[dc_909]

I worked at Petco in Temecula,CA for 5 years running the fish department and I can say that Petco DOES NOT practice very good animal care. I have seen many mass dieoffs and cruelity do to lack of knowledge. You have to take into consideration the people who work there. Most people who work in Petco dont know much about the livestock and the corporate big-wigs are in it for the money NOT the health and longevity of the animals. I know for a fact!

[bruffin]

I visited an LFS once and there was a 300gal marine tank with two yellow tangs, a Trigger, and a GROCERY STORE LOBSTER on the bottom! Seriously. It still had the rubber bands on it's pinchers! This is what tops it off, though: THE FILTRATION WAS A TINY LITTLE BIO-WHEEL FILTER!!!

[VWD]

I don't work at Pet cp , But have in the past met some folks that know fish and corals that do. Not all are doing a good job but some are, I have been to small LFS that are not any better.

[Ebisan]

I have yet to see any LFS put any care in the fish they carry and sell. They are in it to make money and make a living. It's a business. Of course, some stores are better than others but I still see fish crammed into small tanks at the 'best' stores. Fish in, fish out. I don't shop at Petco. I really wish things could be different with all the pet stores. Makes me sad when animals suffer.

I don't belong to PETA nor do I support them in any way. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for abolishing animal cruelty but I just don't support their methods. But they do try to get the word out. I don't want to link it but google "kentuckyfriedcruelty" or "dog cat fur china" and you will cry at the things you will see.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Give me a break. I dont think youll find any pet store willing to give each yellow tang it's own 9834502843 gallons or whatever they suposedly need. ITS A STORE! And honestly, that tank does not even look that crowded to me. If that is a 5 inch angelfish then that is not that small of a tank. As far as prices go, I bought my 4" majestic angel for $125 from a LFS. Live Aquaria sells 5" Majestics for $119-$145 and 3" Clown Triggers for $139. So pretty much I have no idea what you are talking about price-wise.

No comment on the employee knowledge. I am not going to defend that - you've got me there.

P.S. Petco has the nicest looking clowns I have yet to see in anyones tank, hobbiest or store. They also happen to be the cheapest I have seen anywhere.

[moogoomoogoo]

What's wrong with Petco is whats wrong with America! Money drives everything. Consumers( usually uneducated, looking for instant gratification) spend money. Look inside Walmart or Kmart or Target. Almost everything is made in China. Why- because instant gratification Americans won't pay more for quality, that would also put jobs in their own towns. This mind set will ultimately cost us much more than all the terrorists. OK I'll shut up now.

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6369162#post6369162 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kidzatheart
$109.99 for a 3 inch clown trigger is high. I bought my 3 inch clown trigger NOT on sale for $25.00. All i could do when i read the questions was laugh although its sad. We dont have a Petco here in South Carolina where i live. Reading this thread makes me appreciate our LFS so much.

Considerring that a diver risked his life to get that clown trigger, I'd say thats cheap. The number of divers that have died due to collecting little clown triggers (they're deep) is staggering. No other MO fish has such a death trail. There's a village in PI with almost no men left due to them being a baby clown trigger hotspot. Great odds for a single guy, but horriable loss of life for something now being sold for $25 :( Not to mention a cheap clown trigger is most likely been cyanided as they're one of the top cyanide "target" species.

[Ricky@3rdshift]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6369729#post6369729 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
Another issue still needed to adress is how diseased there fish are. Petco is truning aound and selling these fish, even infested with disease!


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...25&pagenumber=3
___________________________________________________


I watch the SW fish very closely. When I see some stress, or ich I usually try and search all he tanks to get a observation tags on them. Lately we have been keeping less fish so I am hoping we will have time to straighten the tanks back up with the substrate change.

[Ricky@3rdshift]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6370931#post6370931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by moogoomoogoo
What's wrong with Petco is whats wrong with America! Money drives everything. Consumers( usually uneducated, looking for instant gratification) spend money. Look inside Walmart or Kmart or Target. Almost everything is made in China. Why- because instant gratification Americans won't pay more for quality, that would also put jobs in their own towns. This mind set will ultimately cost us much more than all the terrorists. OK I'll shut up now.

DING DING DING DING DING DING!!!!

We have a Winner winner chicken dinner!!!

I totally agree with this statement!!!!

We as americans are some CHEEP BASTARDOS!!!

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6370908#post6370908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LobsterOfJustice
Give me a break. I dont think youll find any pet store willing to give each yellow tang it's own 9834502843 gallons or whatever they suposedly need. ITS A STORE! And honestly, that tank does not even look that crowded to me. If that is a 5 inch angelfish then that is not that small of a tank. As far as prices go, I bought my 4" majestic angel for $125 from a LFS. Live Aquaria sells 5" Majestics for $119-$145 and 3" Clown Triggers for $139. So pretty much I have no idea what you are talking about price-wise.

No comment on the employee knowledge. I am not going to defend that - you've got me there.

P.S. Petco has the nicest looking clowns I have yet to see in anyones tank, hobbiest or store. They also happen to be the cheapest I have seen anywhere.
I posted the price of the majestic angel...because it was nearly dead, coloration gone, and its eyes were infested with some disiease, it also had Ich, did your LFS sell you your majestic Angel for 125 looking like that?

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6371023#post6371023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
Considerring that a diver risked his life to get that clown trigger, I'd say thats cheap. The number of divers that have died due to collecting little clown triggers (they're deep) is staggering. No other MO fish has such a death trail. There's a village in PI with almost no men left due to them being a baby clown trigger hotspot. Great odds for a single guy, but horriable loss of life for something now being sold for $25 :( Not to mention a cheap clown trigger is most likely been cyanided as they're one of the top cyanide "target" species.

Gresham, have I ever told you how much I love your posts...best info on the industry around.
Oh wait...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=688446&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
I guess I have told you () : )

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6370931#post6370931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by moogoomoogoo
What's wrong with Petco is whats wrong with America! Money drives everything. Consumers( usually uneducated, looking for instant gratification) spend money. Look inside Walmart or Kmart or Target. Almost everything is made in China. Why- because instant gratification Americans won't pay more for quality, that would also put jobs in their own towns. This mind set will ultimately cost us much more than all the terrorists. OK I'll shut up now.


It is true... on the way home not just a few minutes ago, Me and my mother were listening to the radio, and a comercial for Welches Grape Juice came on, we listened to it, and Regous Filmin was talking about how great it was, the same great taste you grew up with, and with the Antioxidents and such "its good for your heart", be as my mother is( the typical consumer), as soon as the commercial was over, we pulled into the gas station and she came out with 3 gallons of welches grape juice.

Another issue needed to be adressed:

its called the impulse consumer, when someone goes to a Petco and sees how good those CLOWN FISH look, they dont think about all the work and care that little Nemo needs, so they dont think or plan, or even consider what the condition or health the fish is in... and they wont even bother to ask the underqualified employees( not all are, but most), they just buy buy buy, for instant graftification...then Nemo dies.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6371248#post6371248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by grimmjohn
Gresham, have I ever told you how much I love your posts...best info on the industry around.
Oh wait...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=688446&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
I guess I have told you () : )

Cheers,

grimmjohn



That is true...people do go to great risks to recover fish and corals... now it is even harder to collect such specimens.

The fastest grow phenomenon is LR aquaculturing... Its much better than Collecting LR off the coast and destroying reefs, but you still need alot of Real lR to sead the growth of this "base rock", and this is a long and tedeous process, they have to dive to gather the LR, and its pretty dangerouse considering the Sharks that populate most hotspots for LR... but thats why LR can get a little pricey...once you collect the seading rock, you have to invest TIME & money to create the aquacultured LR, it takes about 2-8 years to sead and promote good growth of Inverts and other micro-orgonism that make LR truely LIVE-Rock.


Heres a video link to an early 90s documentary about Acuaculturing corals, And LR... Pretty interesting its a good thing to check out...

http://windowsmedia.microsoft.com/download/

[beeker]

well most of the people that work in LFS's and places alike don't make more than 8 bucks an hour at most and well at that rate they probably don't know ish about saltwater because they are not finding the information on their own(IE: because they don't get paid enough to care)

also the store itself probably doesen't have anyone that comes in to train people for the types of animals they keep...it is all word of mouth care advice which is normally really bad advice...unless it's a dog or a cat something that everyone has/knows about saltwater fish are like tarantulas sure people will by them and keep them but most likely the care requirements and needs will be done poorly and most likely any pet like this will die eventually.

[grimmjohn]

If a clownfish gets somebody started in reefing then it's all worth it IMO () : )
Also, we need to remember that not everyone is going for RC's TOTM...most people just want a FO with a clown pair and a damsel or two and some fake coral...I'm not gonna tell them that that's not worth it, or that I think the plastic sucken ship is cheesie and they should get some real corals. I sell them a tank, some sand, filter, salt, hydrometer, thermometer, test kit, and a heater, load them up with info, give them a web link or two, tell them I'll be at the store if they have questions, and tell them to come get some fish a few days.
LR, skimmers, MHs, massive CA/Alk dosing...we take them for granted here, but most people don't need them if they follow a few basic husbandry rules that are no less difficult than your average FW tank.
LS has more than enough bacteria to handle a decent load, nitrates are less of an issue cuase of the FO and low lighting, and if any algea grows they more than likely will think it's pretty and if not it's easy to take care of since it's not embedded in LR. With no LR/corals your SW lasts lots longer and doesn't need 20 gallons of kalk a day or 20mls of B-ionic, not that the fish care that much anyway as long as the pH is decent, which is easy in a FO. Basically, most FOs just need some FW every few days, well within the abilities of most "impulse consumers," and if one of them becomes a member here, or decides that they want to upgrade and go reef then kudos all around.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6371354#post6371354 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beeker

also the store itself probably doesen't have anyone that comes in to train people for the types of animals they keep...it is all word of mouth care advice which is normally really bad advice...unless it's a dog or a cat something that everyone has/knows about saltwater fish are like tarantulas sure people will by them and keep them but most likely the care requirements and needs will be done poorly and most likely any pet like this will die eventually.

There are training booklets that all aspiring "specialists" have to read and take a test on..covers the basics of maintanence and husbandry. Everything in the store also has a coresponding "care sheet" that buyers can take home with them. There is also a hotline to a district animal care specialist to help with any concerns/Qs and a district animal care guy comes around every so often to make sure things are going kosher.
Tarantulas for instance, decent heat, decent humidity, 5 or 6 small crickets a day, water always clean and full, complete tear down, clean and rebuild of the enclosure every week.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6371399#post6371399 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by grimmjohn
If a clownfish gets somebody started in reefing then it's all worth it IMO () : )
Also, we need to remember that not everyone is going for RC's TOTM...most people just want a FO with a clown pair and a damsel or two and some fake coral...I'm not gonna tell them that that's not worth it, or that I think the plastic sucken ship is cheesie and they should get some real corals. I sell them a tank, some sand, filter, salt, hydrometer, thermometer, test kit, and a heater, load them up with info, give them a web link or two, tell them I'll be at the store if they have questions, and tell them to come get some fish a few days.
LR, skimmers, MHs, massive CA/Alk dosing...we take them for granted here, but most people don't need them if they follow a few basic husbandry rules that are no less difficult than your average FW tank.
LS has more than enough bacteria to handle a decent load, nitrates are less of an issue cuase of the FO and low lighting, and if any algea grows they more than likely will think it's pretty and if not it's easy to take care of since it's not embedded in LR. With no LR/corals your SW lasts lots longer and doesn't need 20 gallons of kalk a day or 20mls of B-ionic, not that the fish care that much anyway as long as the pH is decent, which is easy in a FO. Basically, most FOs just need some FW every few days, well within the abilities of most "impulse consumers," and if one of them becomes a member here, or decides that they want to upgrade and go reef then kudos all around.

Cheers,

grimmjohn


mostly agreed...but unfortunatly...some of those "impulsers", im not saying any names...think that Nemo can go with there "pretty" chinease fish in a bowl, i was sort of adressing how unaware most people are going into Petco, that keeping salt water isnt "exactly" like FW.


GOOD POINTS THOUGH grimmjohn!

[grimmjohn]

Everyone that knows Nemo should also know that he swam around in the ocean () : )
I've had to tell a few people which is which, but the chances of a SW fish getting out the door destined for a FW tank are slim to none...I'd say it's higher at a LFS, where that knowledge is more likely to be assumed than questioned. The chances are Zero on my watch ;)
It's not "exactly" like FW, but for a FO, it can be pretty darn close...easier than keeping cardinal tetras alive, or a planted FW tank () : )

Something that seems to be forgotten is that petco doesn't win by selling dying fish or SW fish for FW tanks...there is a 14 day guarentee!! You could keep bringing your fish back forever as long as they died within 2 weeks and your ammonia isn't sky high. So petco would rather not have their fish die in your tank, whether or not the person that bags your fish for you knows enough to head that off at the pass is another matter () : )

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[MAreefer1]

too bad theres no gaurentee for there saltwater( which is too expensive)

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6371618#post6371618 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
too bad theres no gaurentee for there saltwater( which is too expensive)

That is true unfortunatly, best to let those die in the store.

[Ebisan]

There are already too many things in this world to be concerned about. How a fish store operates is just a spit in the bucket. No matter what you do or say won't change a thing. It just causes mental anguish.

[MAreefer1]

well its better to discuss it than keeping it to yourself...but you have a point, there are many other things that we take advantage of in this technological era the 21 century.

[fish_NEMO]

Hi

If they are keeping their live stock in poor condition contact the RSPCA and tell them, they will put the store and franchise in order with the fines that they could get...

[LobsterOfJustice]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6371249#post6371249 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
Another issue needed to be adressed:

its called the impulse consumer, when someone goes to a Petco and sees how good those CLOWN FISH look, they dont think about all the work and care that little Nemo needs, so they dont think or plan, or even consider what the condition or health the fish is in... and they wont even bother to ask the underqualified employees( not all are, but most), they just buy buy buy, for instant graftification...then Nemo dies.

What are you even talking about? You think this only happens in Petco? What solution do you propose, shutting down all fish stores? Come on, does anyone else think this is getting a little rediculous?

[MAreefer1]

So... thats your opinion, Its good to get a topic like this "out there" once in a while, I dont think anyone is going to really go to drastic measurments...

[ERICinFL]

If you are having a problem with a local PetCo, FishCo, Fish-er-ama, etc., simply write a letter of complaint to your local Better Business Bureau and encourage all your friends to do the same. The BBB is a great tool in the battle against shoddy business practices and it is a very under used resource. Now, that being said, most people don't bother to check the BBB's website before impulse buying, but if enough complaints are recieved, the BBB will notify the company of the issue and put them on notice. Also, I've found in the past, that actually writing and snail mailing a letter to a company, actually get's a more thorough response than an email. As stated before though, we are an instant gratification society and we want results now. Patience is a virtue in trying to change mentality and in the example of PetCo and crappy LFS, we'll need lot's of it.

[fish_NEMO]

Ok so you think that the info that they are giving out to nebies is ok? did you read the questions and the answers that they gave to them? also no thank is big enouf you can always give your fish more space, even if you are selling them!

dont take this the wrong way


and to the coment do you want to shut the company down, in my opinuin (cant spell) YES if thats their knowledge and care then YES

[grimmjohn]

The BBB is a tool unfortunatly a lot of the time, you can often buy your way to a good rating.
"Hey Petco, you have a lot of complaints against you and we're gonna have to give you a bad rating unless you join the BBB and pay your dues...Oh you will join, that's great, send us your check and we'll give you five stars."

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[fish_NEMO]

WHAT?

[GreshamH]

Where's your confusion lay Nemo? Grimmjohn's post is crystal clear to me.

[MAreefer1]

whats BBB?

[grimmjohn]

better business bureau

[ficklefins]

Ok, I will admit that I didn't read all the posts here but I will give you some info from my opinion.

My Background. I worked at PetSmart in Rockville for a few months in the small critters section. I can truly say that I would without a doubt go back for FW fish. The people in "THAT STORE" really care about their animals. The fish, hamsters, birds, and reptiles are really given great care. Now moving to the local Petcorporation.

There was a petco about 3 or 4 blocks from our location. I was getting into saltwater fish so I thought I would visit the location because it was across the street from a LFS in our area. When I got there I met a really nice guy who knew a good amount about SW fish and inverts. He told me that he was fighting the manager to not buy any more anemones for the store. He told me that he even offered to give the store his PC lights for the store setup but they reffused. In the end the store stopped getting anemones and switched to only fish. If you confronted him in a personal way he would tell you not to buy anything from the store, but that was only a front for those in the know! He had really good intentions with the livestock that came in but he said he was limited by management.

In the end you have to realize that these stores make more money off those who buy dry good items. If 1 in 10 buys a fish then they will make their money back in fish losses. While some petcos have employees that are uneducated there are those where the knowlegeable have their hands tied by management.

I will not rule out a local petco for fish because they do bring in captive bred fish. But I will ask first if I can buy fish in their shipping bag before they hit store waters.

[MAreefer1]

good Idea about buying from the shiping bag..does anyone know when PETCO norm. gets there shipments in? or does it vary from store to store?

[Ricky@3rdshift]

Ft. Smith Arkansas stores always gets fish in on Fridays. occasionally tuesday. Howevere as I mentioned before Petco only pays for UPS Ground shipping hence the cause of some of the ich problems.

[MAreefer1]

O aigght thnx for the pointerr

[LauraCline]

The best and only way they will get the message is through the bottom line. The only way their bottom line will be affected is if people stop shopping at places who do not care for their animals. I've read several posts where people said they visited a horrific LFS and purchased fish to "save" them or "give them a real home". In reality all they have done is give an irresponsible shopkeeper a tidy profit as well as clearing out space for another fish to be shipped in and he cycle stats all over again.

[MAreefer1]

agreed, no more saving the little ones, just let em' run outa buisness

[lovelyepona]

Having run a reptile petshop (manager) I can etll you the markup on animals is at least 200%. Fish tend to run 800%. Now there are exceptions to every rule.

I have been inot petco here numerous times (buying crickets for my reptiles). They're reptile care isn't good either.
Though there is a guy here that is educated (perhaps overly so) on both reptiles and SW. LOL he had me confused talking about the different DSB and how they were effective.
He is only allowed to do so much. He tries but as one person you can't fight a corp.

[Fishfirst]

heheh, my friend, there is a large debate on whether DSB are effective :) however, I find that both SSB and DSB work.

[donta42]

you think thats bad, theres an lfs in san jose that keeps about 15 plus yellow tangs in a single 40 g. and they dont seem to ever sell.

[Ti]

Just to be fair to petco,
I've been to a LFS where the employee threw a clown into a trigger tank and watched get killed for entertainment.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6516260#post6516260 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ti
Just to be fair to petco,
I've been to a LFS where the employee threw a clown into a trigger tank and watched get killed for entertainment.

Thats inhumane and wrong!

[LFSmarineguy]

I do the ordering for my store and one thing people have to understand is that this is a business. I'm not defending petco, I think every single one should be smited from the face of the planet as an example. However, due to the volume and types of fish that we carry we cannot setup every tank to conform to the rules of fish keeping as most people know them. These fish are in the tanks for a very short amount of time compared to your tanks at home. In my store the fish are separated and kept with compatible species but the number of fish in each tank is way over the "limit" due to available tank space. We do daily water changes and cycle through our systems weekly. Many in store systems are a lot larger than you might think just by looking at them. The volume of water helps to keep it as stable as possible allowing for the number of fish we keep. Our sick fish are kept in a quarantine system 1/4 the size of our saltwater dept. which is pretty large. I will not order certain species and will not sell certain species to just anybody. PETCO is a price club for animals. Go in there, buy what few supplies you can get there, and if you have a hospital tank feel free to buy something if it looks healthy. To look at a huge chain like that and hold them to the same quality as another petstore is, well, completely retarded. It is what it is. There are stores you can go to out there that have employees who know what they are doing and can help you out finding the right fish or invert. You can't walk into any store and expect to see 200 tanks all conforming to what you perceive as "ideal". You will never see a full grown Sohal Tang or Miniatus Grouper swimming in a 1,000 gallon tank in a store. For the few days that the fish is in the store a 125 or even a 75 is fine. I have 5 Moorish Idols right now in a 75 all eating flake and mysis and nori. Most people can't get that done in their home tanks so before you go knocking LFS's just because remember there are some of us who are doing everything we can to make sure the fish are going to make it and are happy. You just have to put everything in perspective.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6527136#post6527136 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LFSmarineguy
We do daily water changes and cycle through our systems weekly.

you might upkeep your system...but PETCO definatly does not...there is still a major dif.

[mybug]

Fortunately in KC there are three very good LFS that I know of. I use them for fish and inverts. I bought my lights mail order. I typically buy my supplies mail order but on occasion I'll buy local and if I do the chains Petsmart and Petco are the place to go.

I've seen LFS in town that don't care for their fish. It isn't just the Petco's of the world.

On that subject, when surfing I came across what appears to be a great LFS growing business franchise in Ohio. I found it very interesting.

Aquariumadventure.com.

check it out, it's interesting I've never been to one of their stores but looks like they have the right idea on compromise between LFS and chain.

If I were to win the lottery that would be a fun franchise to consider so I could quit my present corporate job.

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6516260#post6516260 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ti
Just to be fair to petco,
I've been to a LFS where the employee threw a clown into a trigger tank and watched get killed for entertainment.

I had a coworker do that once. He was lucky, I was off that day...he only lost his job ;)

[MAreefer1]

wow...what ppl will do for kiks

[MAreefer1]

wow...what ppl will do for kiks:(













EDIT:sory about duoble post...computer lag, and I was ggetin frustrated so I clicked post button twice

[Charles99]

Write a letter to the corporate office.

I've wandered into a Petco in my area, and viewed some pretty scummy tanks. I didn't dare quiz the staff... haha.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6562189#post6562189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Charles99
Write a letter to the corporate office.

I've wandered into a Petco in my area, and viewed some pretty scummy tanks. I didn't dare quiz the staff... haha.

you would have been dreadly dissapointed

[MAreefer1]

I stopped by Petco again yesterday to pick up some salt, and I met someone who seemed to know alot about SW. He said that he only worked at the store one day a week, and often tries to pursuade his managers to improve the SW system.

[grimmjohn]

Been at petco since November and guess how many SW fish have died under my care (outside of baby clowns and baby damsels...sorry there just ain't nothing you can do..3 or 4 outta a batch of 50 ain't bad at all)...none...if it made it over night the first night in was in the tanks..then it was alive until I sold it () : )

Notable Funnies: Coworkers putting a ~$30 Naso label on a ~$70 PBT, putting more than one dwarf angel in a tank, putting hermits in the same tank as a hawkfish, and putting a $6 scooter label on a $12 lawnmower...LOL () : )
Luckily I interviened before any damage was done in all cases () : )

Anyway, Cheers,

grimmjohn

[acroporid23]

death to petco LOL

[XeniaMania]

I've written to Petco to complain about their conditions. I even bought a fish as a rescue. I think they do it to make ppl like me buy their fish. To top it off, I think one of their girls were trying to sound smart to me by saying she uses a refractometer at home, but she couldn't identify the tang I was looking at.

[MAreefer1]

lol...I think the staff that I was asking were "trying to act smart too"

[Reefjunkee]

SAD

[Seadogs]

Atleast with Petco, you can complain up a chain of command. Not that I think it would do much good, but it may make a difference. On the other hand, there are two LFS's here that specialize in SW. One is beautiful, the other, well let's just say that I'd sooner shop for fish at Petco! I swear, this other store had what looked like a 2' Spotted Wobbegong (I'm new to SW, but it looked just like the picture in my Marine Fishes book!) in a 55 gal that had water so green you could only see the fish when it was pressed against the glass! And that's just the first tank! This store is just a LFS, so who do you complain to when the owner's the one running the store?

[MAreefer1]

Petco's issue with Petco is Corporate, and they have many other products in there store, and many stores...thats why they havnt been taken down by a few angry hobbiests...on the other hand, a LFS might suffer if the surrounding hobbiests did not visit.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6744951#post6744951 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by acroporid23
death to petco LOL
agreed

[::PixelFish::]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6985408#post6985408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
agreed

If you agree with this then why did you go to Petco to buy salt?

It's just puzzling how people get all upset about how Petco treats their animals but because their caring for animal welfare stops at their wallets, they keep on shopping there because Petco is cheap.

Petco is the same as a puppy/kitten mill. Working there and shopping there is supporting animal cruelty.

[wfrost]

I use to be on the hate Pet-Co team, but ive seen some LFS that make Pet-Co look like saints. yes I know that most of their employees dont have a clue, thats retail visit a Wallmart, a Lowes, Home Depot etc.. and find a different story. Also remember when you complain about a bunch of tangs in a 20 gal tank or corral unser 20 watts of light that if it stays there more than a week its a slow sales week. My .02 cents worth its not a perfect world.

[EricBrian]

I went to Petco today to buy a back up heater. While there I looked at the tanks. There was one small tank with 2 eels in it and one plastic thingie which they could not use for cover.

It was soooo sad.

[shrug1013]

so true!!

[Lord Voldemort]

I would like to add my opinion. First of all most of the fish are there TEMPORARY. Second, it's all about where you go. I bought my fish from there once and guess what? They asked me like the excact opposite of the first post on this thread. They asked how big the tank was, is it SW, and tankmates. A little weird.

[GTI2.0t]

I am the aquatics manager at the Petco 2 miles from my home. Hearing some of your stories saddens me. It appears that a few bad apples can ruin the whole tree. I don't seem to have any of the problems mentioned here at my store. Yes occasionally we have sick fish, and yes occasionally fish do die. If you have ever kept fish as a hobbyist I am sure that has also happened to you.
If this does occur, say one damsel comes in with ich, I will put up a sign on the entire system that houses that fish(our systems consist of 12 about 15 gallon tanks and 2 about 30 gallon tanks, about 240 gallons total with a 20 gallon sump) and I will begin treatment and not sell a single fish from that system until everything looks better. I am not allowed to use any medications(which is fine with me). The way that coorporate would like us to deal with ich is 50 percent water changes daily until signs of ich are gone. This might help some but does little to help the fish that have it. Don't tell anybody but I do hypo. I just do it I don't need to contact some bigwig and ask him how he wants me to deal with a problem. I am the one there, these fish are in my care, I hold myself responsible for their well being and I will utilize the most effective means to do this.
Part of the problem lies in the fact that there is usually only one aquatic specialist in an average store. What happens when I am not there? Sometimes, employees give bad advice, or sell a fish to someone who had no business buying that fish. This has stopped happening since I have implemented a few policies(my own,not coorperate). I have posted compatibility charts for salt and freshwater fish, I make a list weekly of uncommon fish we don't normally receive and I list their needs and care requirements. I make sure all fish are properlly labeled and I do have a cellphone that I encourage anyone to call if they have questions when I am not there.
I also have been to some Petcos that looked pretty bad. I don't purchase items there and I will do my best to make something up to get some of there fish transferred to my store. The last thing I want is to allow them to sell sick fish or even support them by purchasing dry goods.
I have found that the key to success at my store is simple. Only order species I know I can properly house and care for. I could care less if customers come in and say " Comeon when are you gonna get something cool in". I simply say there are plenty of tank raised clowns, dottybacks,cardinals and the like to choose from and those are all very cool fish. The most expensive and exotic fish I have ordered in a year was a clown trigger. Came in about an inch longer and an inch taller than a pack of marlboros
((sorry its the only thing I had in my pocket at the time to hold up to the glass for reference....cough...cough...cough). After acclimating him(yes I drip my fish although p&p does not include that) I was happy to see that he was looking very healthy. I was a little nervous at first cause clown triggers have always been my fav agressive salt fish and I didn't want someone to sell him on my day off to a jack*** with a 55 gallon tank. But I left a note on the desk about him and hoped for the best. 2 days later he was still there and I was back to work. A customer showed interest in him, I put an under observation sign on his tank, observed and personally fed him for 7 days called him, told him he was eating fine and looked great. He came in that day and bought him. I gained a lifelong customer, and a clown trigger gained a LIFELONG home in a 220 with a dragon moray(thats it).

I suppose by now you can probably notice that I don't really have a point in this post. I am just simply embarassed by some of the stories I have heard and I just want to say that I can assure all of you that the fish at my store, in my fish department, under my care, are doin just fine. :smokin:

[hgbarwick]

i live in tampa florida and the PETCO thier is awsome. THier fish and corals are all healthy and thier are no overcrowding. SO mabey not all petcos are bad

[XtrmCHoPZ]

I live in CA, and every PETCO I have ever been to is trash. sorry to say it but its true. All the fish ALWAYS have parasites ( ich, oodinium, black ich, you name theyve got it ). The tanks are always overcrowded. Almost every time I go in there I see fish eating eachother. Their corals are garbage and their fish are worse. They should stop selling SW fish ALL TOGETHER!!!!!

[Fishfirst]

I have to agree... I've been to all but two or three petcos in WI and I haven't found one I'd ever buy livestock from. Hole in the head and ich seems to be the biggest problem in every store I've been to.

[JotaDe]

I have been to several good PetCos here in the bay area and have met many very knowledgeable employees who could put most LFS employees to shame.
Conditions of the tanks are varied, in the same store I've seen good looking tanks and poor. I have no idea what it depends on.
To say the "company" blows as opposed to an individual or individual store is wrong though IMO.

[EricBrian]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7253891#post7253891 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JotaDe
To say the "company" blows as opposed to an individual or individual store is wrong though IMO.

So when the company says that the employees can not treat sick fish, that is ok?

[JotaDe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7253908#post7253908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EricBrian
So when the company says that the employees can not treat sick fish, that is ok?

Since I've had relatively good expieriences at PetCo I "have" to say the company "blows" because of someone elses experience?

[GTI2.0t]

In no way does Petco say we can't treat the sick fish, they just have ways they want it done. The main reason for that is that a store that has an untrained staff(aquatics managers fault)would misuse medications. They would just go ahead and start dumping stuff in and hoped the fish got better. As we all know improperly medicating the fish is probablly worse than not medicating at all. There policies for treating disease are: for ich in freshwater, it is a salt treatment that will eliminate all signs of ich in 4 or 5 days(it works if done correctly), and for ich in saltwater they want you to do daily 50% water changes(time consuming, not feasable in a high volume store when you have two, 247 gallon salt systems and one 30 gallon barrel for mixing salt water) I have personally used hypo on one system a few months ago when a copperband butterfly came in with ich, and my fault I didn't notice until the next day. It worked.
In my opinion it depends on the aquatics manager. If this person stays on top of water quality then treatment procedures would be immaterial as you would have no disease in the first place. And don't order delicate species unless you are confident you can care for them. Just cause its on the list, has a cool sounding name that you can't pronounce,and you have never seen one before, doesn't mean you should order it. Every once in a while a fish appears on the availability list that I am not familiar with(mostly freshwater) all I do is write the name down, look it up in a book at the store, if it is not in any of them I will research online when I get home. If it is something I feel confident ordering, and it is still available next week I will order a few. If it was only on the list that one week and I missed out cause I was researching it, oh well.

[Poorcollegereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368000#post6368000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
But the cruelty torwards the animals is horrible, and they are not healthy at all, do you see that at your LFS????????

I dont think so, there always well kept up, I have never bought from Petco and never will.

Well, we dont have a petco around where I live, but my LFS is worse than any Petco horror story. The cram Ritteri, BTA, LTA Condys and other anemones into the same tanks. Im talking about 10-15 in a 20 gal tank, with alot of other creatures and two RO florescent lamps. Even their mangroves dont last very long. Even then the have RTN coral labled as "rescue corals". Quite frankly, if you dont get to the LFS before they introduce the item into their tanks, you will have a longer recoup time, if they survive at all. Its amazing to see Rock Anemones (Aiptias... sorry cant spell that one) covering their LPS and SPS specimins. I dont know, I think a Petco might be better so atleast my LFS cleans up it's act.

Heck, a bad LFS almost want me to start a LFS with better ethics

[yeame]

LOL this is a joke I have gotten alot of things at alot of pet stores and petco isnt that bad compared to alot of lfs and now every one needs to go to petco and save a fish give me a break it happened to me got my sohal tang out of a 15g tank on sale for 35.00 lets see a lfs do that not that I like petco but most of the lfs up in maine suck

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6780052#post6780052 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
lol...I think the staff that I was asking were "trying to act smart too"

Honestly, I live in MA, and I've had higher success rates with fish from PetCo (almost always the brighton store) than any other shop around.

As far as fish goes, I'm about 6/6 on fish bought from petco still being alive, whereas I'm 0/3 from Skiptons, 1/4 from Tropic Isle, 1/2 from Aquarium Gallery.

The fish at the LFSes look healthier, but maybe thats the problem. Maybe I give them more of the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I think the only difference is that the LFS are savvy enough to pull out the dead fish.

Do you really think care matters that much when most of the fish are being sold in a day or two?


(Just for reference to the above statement:
Petco:
2xOccellaris Clowns(alive)
1 Bangai Cardinal (alive)
1 Coral Beauty (alive)
1 Cirrhilabrus Cyanopleura (alive)
1 Cirrhilabrus Solorensis (alive)
Skiptons
2x YWG (both dead, wasted away.. cyanide caught?)
1x Cirrilabrus Cyanopleura (wasted away...same?)
TI
1xYWG(dissapeared overnight)
1xCirrhilabrus Exquisitus (alive)
1xCirrhilabrus Rubrimarginatus(Never ate)
1xFlasher wrasse (wasted away)
AG
1x Halicoeres Iridis (alive)
1x Flame Angel (never ate))

[mjdlonghorn]

Petco doesnt care about the quality of their livestock. The only reason why they stock live saltwater fish is to get people interested in the hobby. When people see the pretty lionfish they have in stock they decide by buy the hardware. That is where petco makes money selling the actual aquariums and filters etc. I dont think petco is any worse than some LFS. I saw one LFS in town that had a 4" flagfin angel in a tank about 8" x 8."

Although, I should say that I have bought some very nice damsels and arrow crabs at petco.

[darkwaterdevil]

all of there saltwater tanks are run to a central sump same with fresh and its all waterchanged there same with one of my lfs. i dont think there great at all there stupid but the fish quality isnt bad because of them go in there every day and i bet you that the fish will sell fast all of the fish come in like that from the distributor. im not defending them. i work for a lfs so there the competition

[Ursus]

The fact of the matter is, Petco is not a specialty shop, so the employees and conditions aren't going to be perfect. Some will be better than others. The Petco closest to my house has knowledgeable staff and the fish look decent. However, the one on the other side of town is not as good. The only positive is they move the fish to customers pretty fast. Of course, then it's up to the un-educated first time owner.

[IPowderBlueTang]

We don't have Petco , but have Petcetra and sounds like the same attitude putting a med size 3-4 inch PowderBlue tang in a 5 gallon tank and its there for several months so far because they want $149.00 for it and the other LFS are selling for $59-$79 for the same size.
The person working in the fish Dept is wondering why it came down with Ich for the 3rd time in 3 months!
They also have a large Naso 5-6 inches in a 2 gal tank and there is all stress marks on the Tang like white camouflage marks front to back!
The employee ask me if an coral beauty can be put in with a Powderblue Tang and get along and I said they should in a marine tank and the employee put the coral beauty with the powderblue tang in the 5 gal.
They have a Brown grouper there for 3 years and can't sell him and they feeds the grouper all the dead goldfish everyday. They wonder why it won't eat flaked food or frozen. The grouper will spit pellets out of the tank if they try to feed it pellets!

[tkeracer619]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7227247#post7227247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GTI2.0t
I am the aquatics manager at the Petco 2 miles from my home. Hearing some of your stories saddens me. It appears that a few bad apples can ruin the whole tree. I don't seem to have any of the problems mentioned here at my store. Yes occasionally we have sick fish, and yes occasionally fish do die. If you have ever kept fish as a hobbyist I am sure that has also happened to you.
If this does occur, say one damsel comes in with ich, I will put up a sign on the entire system that houses that fish(our systems consist of 12 about 15 gallon tanks and 2 about 30 gallon tanks, about 240 gallons total with a 20 gallon sump) and I will begin treatment and not sell a single fish from that system until everything looks better. I am not allowed to use any medications(which is fine with me). The way that coorporate would like us to deal with ich is 50 percent water changes daily until signs of ich are gone. This might help some but does little to help the fish that have it. Don't tell anybody but I do hypo. I just do it I don't need to contact some bigwig and ask him how he wants me to deal with a problem. I am the one there, these fish are in my care, I hold myself responsible for their well being and I will utilize the most effective means to do this.
Part of the problem lies in the fact that there is usually only one aquatic specialist in an average store. What happens when I am not there? Sometimes, employees give bad advice, or sell a fish to someone who had no business buying that fish. This has stopped happening since I have implemented a few policies(my own,not coorperate). I have posted compatibility charts for salt and freshwater fish, I make a list weekly of uncommon fish we don't normally receive and I list their needs and care requirements. I make sure all fish are properlly labeled and I do have a cellphone that I encourage anyone to call if they have questions when I am not there.
I also have been to some Petcos that looked pretty bad. I don't purchase items there and I will do my best to make something up to get some of there fish transferred to my store. The last thing I want is to allow them to sell sick fish or even support them by purchasing dry goods.
I have found that the key to success at my store is simple. Only order species I know I can properly house and care for. I could care less if customers come in and say " Comeon when are you gonna get something cool in". I simply say there are plenty of tank raised clowns, dottybacks,cardinals and the like to choose from and those are all very cool fish. The most expensive and exotic fish I have ordered in a year was a clown trigger. Came in about an inch longer and an inch taller than a pack of marlboros
((sorry its the only thing I had in my pocket at the time to hold up to the glass for reference....cough...cough...cough). After acclimating him(yes I drip my fish although p&p does not include that) I was happy to see that he was looking very healthy. I was a little nervous at first cause clown triggers have always been my fav agressive salt fish and I didn't want someone to sell him on my day off to a jack*** with a 55 gallon tank. But I left a note on the desk about him and hoped for the best. 2 days later he was still there and I was back to work. A customer showed interest in him, I put an under observation sign on his tank, observed and personally fed him for 7 days called him, told him he was eating fine and looked great. He came in that day and bought him. I gained a lifelong customer, and a clown trigger gained a LIFELONG home in a 220 with a dragon moray(thats it).

I suppose by now you can probably notice that I don't really have a point in this post. I am just simply embarassed by some of the stories I have heard and I just want to say that I can assure all of you that the fish at my store, in my fish department, under my care, are doin just fine. :smokin:

Can you make some suggestions to corportate about treatment. I bug the girls here at the local petco atleast once a week. There story is that they do not order fish that coast sends them what corporate wants. The recent fad at my local petco is to have 5-7 yellow tangs, a couple scopas, and other assorted tangs in there little 20g. they all have ich, even though they have 2 systems, they wont do hypo, instead they dump tons of chemicals into the tanks.

Another policy they have is not remove a fish untill it is 100% dead. Who cares other than the fish were it dies, in a cup or a petco tank is about equivelent.

Thank you for making your petco a better place. To bad the other 99% share nothing in common with your store and continue killing fish as I type.

BTW: I shop there on occasion for cat food and salt if it is on special. I have a petco devoted qt tank, 1.5 months ago i rescued a yellow tang from there "awsome" 20g tang tank. I picked the one who was nipping at the rocks and who looked like he had a chance. He has yet to recover, I believe he will make it though. Really sad for the begginer who has no idea and purchases there stuff from petco. They will never be succesfull, and probably quit.

One more thing, If you suggest to them any changes I wouldnt say you do hypo, b/c that means half of your system is down and corporate will probably fire you for helping the fish and reducing there capacity to sell fish.

[tkeracer619]

Maybe if you show your succes rate with fish survival, sales rate, and profit since you dont loose 75% of your fish to your heavily stocked and diseased tanks.

They might learn that fish CAN live in there stores for more than 3 days and that they don't have to push so hard to get them to the end owner.

[tkeracer619]

I could just keep posting and posting and posting.

How about you just give us top guys e-mail addresses.

[tkeracer619]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368279#post6368279 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Worldwithin
There is a LFS near me that makes Petco look like the best fish store in the world.... No pictures available, but just imagine a7 - 8 inch emperor angel in a 10 x 10 cube. The tank was the length of the wall, but divided up into many smaller areas to keep the fish away from each other. This poor guy had just enough room to turn around, and that was it. Top that off with over medicated water (basically yellow water), and you have yourself a LFS that has no concern for its livestock. If it were not for the fact that I am unable to house that poor little guy, I would have taken it home to give it a real home, not just a friggen box to live in.

I wish there was somewhere that one could go to and complain about the conditions that some of these stores provide for these fish. I would comment to the owner, but I have a feeling that they really don't care. (I won't get into details as to avoid offending anyone). The only option that I can come up with is to inform local reefers to avoid the shop and spread the word.

I just about get sick when I go in there to see if there is anything I can save from them.

:fish1::hammer:

Who cares if you offend someone. If they do it.... expose them. They know what goes on and so should the public. Title it This LFS is worse than Petco, tell the owner about the thread, and say you agree with what is says. That you had to come see it for yourself, and wont be comming back. If they dont care they might at this point since there busness rep is on the line. Personally let him go out of busness, your quality lfs will benifit from it.

You do know how many people are members to RC right.

[grimmjohn]

Since January 1st 2006 my petco has sold about $2300 in SW fish...and our shrink is around 20%...which means that about $460 worth of SW fish have died in the store during the past 18 weeks or so. That comes to about $25 worth of dead SW fish a week. That is equal to about 6 damsels a week dying..or one small yellow tang...or a false perc and two damsels...or nothing dying for three weeks and then a powder blue tang coming in beat to hell and then dying one day later...and we keep around $1000 to $1500 worth of SW fish in the tanks at any given time. And we sell about $125 worth a week...some weeks just 2 damsels..some weeks $500 worth.

Right now in our store:
Betta - 60
6 clarkiis - 16
1 B&W perc - 40
6 cardinals - $20
6 firefish - 14
2 Pink Anthias (squamipinnis) - 18
10 false percs - 16
2 strawberry psuedos - 16
2 small snowflake eels - 18
1 medium snowflake - 30
3 saddleback clowns - 16
7 tomato clowns - 16
1 keyhole angel - 19
1 small regal tang - 40
1 small naso - 35
3 yellow tangs - 25
1 sailfin tang - 30
1 black trigger - 20
1 coral beauty - 25
1 small koran - 43
1 threadfin butterfly - 19
1 racoon butterfly- 30
about 25 damsels - 4
1 dog face puffer - 30
2 maroon clowns - 16
2 lawnmower blennys - 18
===about $1200 worth of fish...that's a pretty average stocking list...and out of that $1200 worth of fish in our tanks this week...$25 worth will die..on average. Most likely 6 damsels..can't do nothing with'em.

Tell me about another saltwater fish store that soundly beats that...anyone? I understand that some mega store is gonna have $10,000 worth of fish and so more will die..but at the percentage level? Anyway..I think we're pretty damn good.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[tkeracer619]

Well put, now get the rest of the stores to follow suit and we will be all good. There are a few of you petco employees who care and to you my hat is off.

My local one was great when I moved here, now its pretty bad. The employees are nice and try their best but 90% of the fish in the display have ich b/c they cant do anything about it other than pour treatment into the tank. The yellow tang I brought home last from there came down with ich, black ich, and some white moth ball looking growths all over him while he was/is in qt. That is not healthy and he was the best looking tang out of 10 in the store. With a month of formalin dips, freshwater dips, and hypo I think he is coming around. At least you can't see through him anymore. It's honestly pathetic.

[Fishfirst]

at my lfs, we have a 5-10% loss of fish period. That includes saltwater/freshwater/ and brackish. 20% is a bit average for the coorparate folks and isn't good at all.

[tkeracer619]

20% = 1 in 5 die. I must have misread that yesterday. Still for petco 20% is pretty darn good. I dont think my local one pulls that off.

[grimmjohn]

The 20% is dollars, not fish..I think I explained that pretty clearly *shrugs.*

I checked and in 4.5 months I have killed
1 PBT -- $77-- came in looking like crap, died within 24 hours
1 dwarf lion -- $18-- came in looking like crap, died within 24 hours
1 half black angel --$25 -- never ate
1 black false perc -- $40-- no idea
2 false percs --2X $16 -- no idea, not bad out of 2 shipments of 24
1 yellow tang -- $25 -- no idea
That comes to about $225, which leaves $235 in dead damsels...about 58 to be exact...which comes to what? About 3 a week? Out of the 12-24 damsels that I order every week?
I went to a LFS this morning and they had just as many damsels in their tanks as we do..but they had 4 dead ones in there too..along with several waffer-thin PBTs and hippos.
So, minus damsels, I've killed less than 10% of the /dollar/ amount of fish we've had in the store.

Anyway...7 fish...fish that nobody could have saved...and 3 or 4 damsels a week...a LFS can have 3 or 4 damsels out of 24 die a week and it won't affect their percentages becuase they are not so dependant upon damsels...they can sell $2000 worth of tangs and angels etc...a week and so those 4 out of 24 damsels don't even register...but that doesn't mean that those 3 or four out of 24 don't die there too.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[Orca33]

Holy Crap after reading all the post, I feel I need to put in my two cents. First off to the employee who works at Petco you are far and few between, and I am sorry for what I am about to say.
Petco is quite possibley the most horribly ran store I have ever been in. I live in Dallas Tx, and yes I am blessed to have a few reall really good LFS to choose from. I go to Petco when i feel like I am having to good a day and feel I need to be brought back down LOL. No really I sometimes go there to get supplies i.e. dry goods such as dog food. Everytime I go there everyone looks so depressed, you have some creepy fat slob running the register, oh and they always have at least five cash registers but only one of them running so there is not chance of getting out of that hell hole in a timely manner. The whole corprate chain pet store is probley ran by terroist, and yes I compleatly understand how things go. I got canned at Petsmart after setting up a 1000 dollar hospitol tank in back to care for sick fish. I did it mainly to **** them off cause I hated how the animals welfare was of no importance to them, and same goes fro petco. But with Petsmart aside Petco is a whole nother level of crap. If there was any part of the indrusty that hurts the Ecosystem it would probley be Petco,more animals lose there lives there than the whole world combined. (ok that might be slightly overblown.)
Down here in Dallas we have quite a few diffrent Petcos to choose from, they are all equally horrible. Ignorant employees, crappy livestock, ugly store, stupid managment, and above all else poorly ran. I pray for the day Petco goes out of bussiness.

[Pillz]

well after reading this I guess i should say some stuff. I dont think it has been metioned, but Petco has actually been fined multiple times, and Has actually been banned from some states from carrying any large exotic birds. They have multiple Animal crulty lawsuits against them from people walking into there back room and seeing how they keep there animals.

They are too cheap to buy cages for there extra animals so they plug up sinks and use them as cages, now even this could be passed over and seen as not that big of a deal, but not when there sinks all leak and pretty much the animals inside either drown or die of hypothermia from getting wet then not having anything to keep them warm.

As far as there fish section i dont believe that they should even try carrying saltwater. Due to low pay and how easy it is to get a job without any exspirence they really cant do it right. Im sure PETA has already started something with these guys and there fish section.. It probably wont be long before they start getting banned from carring all sorts of other animals.

[highquality]

wow! ive been raging over some stuff ive seen at petco for about 6 months now. i wondered if it was just me. the corals are always on a constant decline. some fish stores here in n.c. keep corals in terribly low light. ive even walked in a lfs that never tends to sick or wounded fish and seen a clown being nipped and harrassed to the point where it could barely swim. i moved it to an empty tank with my bare hands. it was connected , so smae water quality and temp, but how hard was that. could have been done days ago!

[highquality]

and the last thing i would want is one of the petco employees ( not the fewq good ones) bagging a fish for me..

[witfull]

many years ago, during a transfer, i needed some extra cash,,i applied at the local petco. i have been a LFS employee, LFS manager,livestock wholesaler, and done net capture collecting....

what do you think they told me?

i was over-qualified for the position.

i think that says it all~

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7443184#post7443184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pillz

They are too cheap to buy cages for there extra animals so they plug up sinks and use them as cages, now even this could be passed over and seen as not that big of a deal, but not when there sinks all leak and pretty much the animals inside either drown or die of hypothermia from getting wet then not having anything to keep them warm.


We can order as many store use AGA 10 and 15 gallon tanks as we want...for free...we have about twelve 10 and 15 gallon tanks where we keep animals that are up for adoption or sick or are overstock. These animals are meticulously cared for...each cage has a care sheet detailing why the animals are in the "wellness room" and what meds/food etc... they should be receiving and when. This sheet is signed every morning and evening by the person who tended to the animals. If they are not signed off on then the manager on duty is subject to immediate termination. If the care sheet is signed but action was obviously not taken then the person who signed it but did nothing is subject to immediate termination.

Friday we were visited by our "Regional Animal Specialist. (RCAC) " The store is graded on a 1-100 scale on how well we care for our animals. We get docked 2 points if there is algae in a fish tank. If there are more than 5 dead goldfish or more than 2 dead tropical fish per section then the manager is in deep crap and could very easily get fired. Keeping an animal in the sink would be insta-firing. Scoring lower than a 90% puts the store and all managers on probation...corporate then comes down hard and checks in more frequently until the problems are taken care of, or new people have to be brought in. My aquatics section has always scored 100.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

P.S. don't make me laugh with PETA alligations...Their heart may be in the right place..but I can't take any organization that wants people to release all their ferrets, ban fishing as "Underwater torture," and considers OUR hobby as cruel and unusual very seriously and I must admit I doubt their sanity. Their agenda is to not have ANY animals EVER sold in ANY petstore.

[Pillz]

grimmjohn- This wasnt an attack on you.. Nor was this soley about your store.. IM talking about the stores in my area. Im saying there there hasnt been one petco that I have been to that has a decent small animal or fish setup. Just the fact that petco will by reptials off of non business breeders to sell should scare you.. I dont think any animal that has the potential to be over 3 ft long and live 20 odd years should be sold without knowing exactly where it came from..

as for peta, they may be stupid. But There also huge and shouldnt be shrowned at since they have the power to cause Huge problems with this hobby or any other hobby.

Thats good that your petco stays clean.. i would like to come there just to see.

[Dactyl]

thats nothing. come to florida where you have tons and tons of fish stores with tanks full of native species theyre just raping from the wild and selling for profit. its really a shame.

[grimmjohn]

Pillz,
I didn't take any offence, and I hope I caused none as well, I was just trying to give an account of how things /should/ work at a petco i guess..I know there are plenty of bad ones..hell, ours used to be plenty bad way before I got there..our SW shrink used to be around 50%...Our "inventory" still has several fish that have "vanished'' in it...either they were ordered and then died and were not keyed out..or an employee helped themselves..this includes a $150 clown trigger, queen angels, regal angel, purple tangs etc...needless to say, EVERYONE that worked in the store prior to me being hired was fired...I have worked in this petco longer than anyone else currently employed there.
Back to the inventory...now I'm kinds screwed cause to "clean house" I should "key out" those fish to take them out of our inventry...but doing that would make me look bad cuase our shrink would go through the roof and corporate would be on my manager and I like stink on **** for "killing" hundreds of dollars worth of stuff...even if we explained that all that happened previously and the other guy got fired for it, it would still be a huge black stain on paper and in the computer and every graph ever printed out about our store again. Err.

cheers,

grimmjohn

[loveclowns]

I went to a Petco in Gadsden, Alabama, in April just to look. The clownfish were OK, but they had a regal blue tang that was in its dying moments. It was covered with ich. I felt so bad for him.

[SerranidTerror]

I used to work for Petco as well but have moved into a much better part of the industry. I've pm'ed grimm a few times and he is a fantastic guy- so I definitely would never attack him. So this is on Petco not him.

I tried my hardest to get our store to set up quarantine tanks in the back, breakroom, and wellness room. I was usually pretty sucessful at convincing fellow managers that this was a good idea but of course the stupid RCAC's would say this is not protocol and "I do not approve." So kudos if your RCAC let you set up 10 and 15 gallon store use tanks and kudos to your DM if they let you order soooo many tanks and other store use items because my store was alotted NOTHING! (We had a tiny budget)

I also think the grading of the store is major BS. Sometimes I feel they focus a bit more on things like algae than health of fish or whatever critter. I mean it is cool they will do "care alerts" and also come back more often if you score low. However I have seen this scoring system used as a tool to oust managers and promote "hand selected" ones.

I dunno, the company does have/get some good ideas but as far as carrying them out-they flat out never give the stores the tools to do so. Unfortunately Grimm's store is one of the very rare exceptions in that company I guess. Had I not gone in the direction that I am going in now I would have applied for an RCAC position with the company and perhaps made a bit of a difference in "protocol." But in the meantime we have the forum to complain on and your local shops to shop in :D

[mnmsea]

my daughter worked for petco from the age of 16 to 20. This is actually where she developed her love of salt water fish. She taught herself by reading alot and her manager is salt water aquarist, so he taught her also. She came to be their expert and had regular customers. We still have a clown that she adopted from a customer taking down his tank. From her love and starting with a very small tank, and much trial and error...Now I am hooked!. And no, no one but her and the manager could actually help a customer with a saltwater question. she only worked part time (going to school, so only worked on school breaks), so she ended up getting frustrated and will NOT work in fish now. I have to agree that perhaps Petco should not sell salt water fish, as it takes a great deal to learn what it takes to keep a salt water tank. But, I can't knock Petco too much as that is how I ended up with our beautiful tank in progress!

[BMW///M3]

Wow,

I think it's about time I chime in....
I'm going to start off by saying I'm not siding with either party's opinions on this matter. I will openly (and proudly say) I am also an aquatics manager of a petco in Concord NC. In recent years I have been employed by a few different LFS's so I see how each store approaches fish keeping/retail. I have painfully read through this entire thread and taken notes as to what different people have said, what pictures have been put up, ect. To be honest, one of the reasons I took the job as aquatics manager (or C.A.S) is so there won’t be a continuance of gripes about petco, at least not about my store. I was hired on the spot by the GM of the store due to his need to a knowledgeable fish specialist. I have been in the hobby for years now (over a year in saltwater). When I arrived at my store the FOCAL (acronym for a display tank) had been set-up by another aquatics manager at the other Charlotte Petco and my jaw hit the floor when I saw it. There were 12, yes 12 LARGE angels (asapher, scribble, koran, emperor, ect) 15 DIFFERENT types of clowfish 3 fake rocks and 9 flake plants which were only about 6 inches tall. Needless to say I felt kind of panicked my first day on the job. All but one of the angels died due to stress from the 75!!!!!! Gallon tank they were in. I then took everything out of the tank, ordered 75lbs of L.R. put 130W PC's over the tank, and slowly started turning it into a reef tank with the inhabitants of 2 clowns, 1 purple tang, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 clown goby, 1 orange spotted goby, 2 peppermint shrimp, 3 cleaner shrimp, 1 fire shrimp, 30 hermits, 45 snails, 1 bar goby, 1 carpet anemone which houses the clowns, 1 LTA anemone, 3 green polyp toadstools, 10 polyp rocks (brown, yellow, green), 3 mushroom rocks, 1 large bubble coral, ect. The tank has been over healthy for 7 months now.

Now, on to my livestock. No where in my tanks will you find any powder blues, browns, ect. None of my fish have any type of ich, lymphosysts, ect. I have only lost ONE saltwater fish in the last 4 1/2 months who was sick on arrival. I do 30% water changes EVERY week, put ph buffer in, add any trace elements needed to keep my corals healthy. My water parameters are as follows

Fish System
Temp: 78
PH: 8.2
No2: 0
No3: 0
Alk: 300
Ca: 470
SG: 1.023

Coral/Invert
Temp:77-78
Ph: 8.3
No2: 0
No3: 0
Alk: 300
Ca: 500
SG: 1.024

My corals are all kept under T-5 HO's, I still have YET to loose a coral in 6 months, as we are very limited to what we can order (polyps, leathers, mushrooms, Zoa's). None of my fish have any type of ich, ever. If they do, I was given permission by my GM to set up a QT tank in the break room, I have nursed a fox face, a coral beauty, and a yellow tang back to perfect health after 3 weeks being in QT. A 20G which I run hypo salinity on at ALL times, with a 2 hours slow drip acclimation.

In my fish section probably the most exotic thing you will see are a blue tang or a yellow tang, both of which are in a 40L which is 4 feet, so they have plenty of room to swim, they all get fresh nori 2 times a day. We are required by corporate to keep so many fish on hand, so in the 40 I have to kept about 6-7 tangs or I will loose my job. Do I like doing this? Absolutely not, have any of them fought or died due to stress, absolutely not! The yellow tangs and the scopas tangs actually school together. My fish that do stay in the store for more then 2 weeks learn to hand feed some of the scoaps and blue tangs will eat right from my hand.

When ANY of my saltwater fish come it they get drip acclimated, sure, it takes 5 hours to do all of them, but it's done the right way

Who do I sell to? Whenever ANYONE wants to buy any type of saltwater fish I grill them to make sure they will be a responsible owner, and the fish will be comfortable in it's new environment. For example I won’t sell a blue tang to anyone who has a tank under a 90G. I wont sell a yellow tang to anyone who has less than a 55. If someone wants to buy corals I make sure they have the proper type of lighting to keep it alive.

If anyone in NC is near the charlotte area come to the concord mills petco and see the tanks/fish for yourself, I grantee you will be impressed. I am a hobbyist myself, and really care about the health of my animals, and who they go home with. I hope this rant has had some impact on some the members of this board to show that not ALL petco's are bad.

[DamnDamsel]

I stopped by Petco again yesterday to pick up some salt, and I met someone who seemed to know alot about SW. He said that he only worked at the store one day a week, and often tries to pursuade his managers to improve the SW system.



Reading the topic of the thread followed by this post was a classic:)

I have never been in a LFS that did not have some trouble going on in one tank or another.

There are some people in this hobby who have mastered it, but the rest of us make mistakes too.

[White Tiger]

One time I asked at Petco "Is it possible to fit 3 full grown niger triggers, 1 full grown humu humu, and 1 full grown lionfish in a 50g tank?"

The response was "Definitly, infact, you can fit 5 full grown triggers with a full grown lionfish with no problem!"

Another time I asked "Can my humu humu live with 2 cleaner shrimps peacefully?"

The response was from a Petco guy was "Yes! There should be no problem."

Luckily, most of those people were not saltwater specialist as I soon found out. However, one saltwater specialist at my local Petco said yes to my triggerfish question!

There is perhaps only one trustable saltwater specialist at my local Petco.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7519875#post7519875 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SerranidTerror
However I have seen this scoring system used as a tool to oust managers and promote "hand selected" ones.

That is very true.
Instead of the animal care audit though they usually use the big 50 page store audit...they ONLY do that one if they want to fire the manager..cuase they have to score a 70% on it...and apparently there is not a petco in the world that can pass it..so then they can fire the manager.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[FishGuttz]

Before reading it, I thought this thread was about our responsibility as reefers to care for marine animals in a humane way. If we all agreed to do so, we would force these fish stores to change there ways. Here's how:

1. Buy fewer or no items from stores that mistreat animals.
2. Buy fewer or no wild caught animals.
3. Tell the stores that you intend on doing this.
4. Support self sustained reefing by initiating area frag swaps.
5. Alert authorities about the mistreatment of marine and/or other animals in LFS.

Anyone care to add or detract?

[DrBegalke]

Nothing is humane as leaving the animal in its natural habitat.

[Shark722]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368302#post6368302 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tdman3627
....Our department is way better looking than the pics you posted above. Most of the time with the fish overcrowding is because of some retard up in the corporate office....
Ryan

I work at the local Petco here too, I do have to second what is said here... Any fish sale that Petco has, they have to stock for. Basically, that means if tetras are on sale, you get 150 of them that you dont want on top of the 50 you usually order... so you will sometimes end up with all of those in one or two 50 gallon tanks. My store has a so-so salt section, not all of the employees know about the sw. Sales are usually followed by a 'push' order which usually consists of many fish you don't have room for. Anytime clowns are on sale, we generally will get 24 of each, Tomatos, Perculas(False), Clarkiis, all from ORA. As far as inverts go, I wish we didnt carry them as they are in poorly lit tanks. Also the manager here that orders them is dumb, and orders 'what looks cool' not what will sell.

[grimmjohn]

There is nothing wrong with splitting them up...we only have ~10 gallon FW tanks so I split the 150 neons up between 5 or 6 tanks...I split the normal 50 neon orders into 2 or 3 tanks. Seems to prevent the problem of them all dying within 24 hours.
I do that with angels too...we have to order 24 at a time so they get split into 2 or 3 tanks to keep them all alive too.

I did just order a red sea puple tang though (my first) and they come from another company (not Seagreast but CIS international)..so this other company apparently just "rounded out" my order (apparently the tang alone did not make the minimum order limit so they just sent me whatever they wanted to get my order up to the limit instead of calling or something) with 3 other random organisms...a juvi emporer snapper, and 2 "lobsters" of some sort...kinda ticked me off..cuase I can't see these guys selling very fast..though ya never know....but normally when an order doesn't make a # limit the order just gets auto-cancelled.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[nomadnumber29]

It isn't surprising to see pictures like this. I used to work for a lfs and we had a similar set-up. 2 huge wall units divided up into fish and inverts. The bad part is that the animals aren't expected to be there long, however many times they are there for weeks. which leads to them becoming more stressed, and since it was all one system every animal was effected. The sad part is that most chain type of stores have this set-up and unless everyone boycots these stores it will continue to happen. But is this really realistic? no... it isn't.

[firefishbrain]

Like every sort of corperate company, quality is realitivly low. petco is in just for the money. I only go there if I can't find some eqipment at some lfs's. I wourk at a lfs and we actually have to do some setups for petco, it's hmiliating...

[Sea Ninja]

I used to deal with Petco on a daily basis and let me tell you they should scrap their fish department. I was the one they would call in to do the maintenance for them.

[Billybeau1]

Well as long as this thread is going, I might as well share my story.

Walked into a new Petco in my area this morning. First thing I see is a 40 gal tank with the lights off and the niger trigger is up at the top gasping for air and turning on his side. A closer look revealed that nothing was running in the tank and it was terribly cloudy. I see a guy stocking shelves (looked like an Asst Mgr type) and I say to the guy. "You might want to check out that tank in the front, your about to loose a trigger." He says not to worry, the lights on the tank go on at ten oclock. I said "I dont think you understand, the pump in the tank is not running. The fish is running out of oxygen." He walks over with me to see the tank not running at all. He quicky discovers the electric going to the tank is not working and gets another cord and plugs the tank in. I walked out shaking my head.

You think the least a store owner can do if hes gonna sell fish is to check his tanks first thing in the morning.

The only thing is I feel good about saving a fish today. Such a shame. Such a shame. :(

[xtm]

I came across this "underground" LFS in Pasadena this morning. I was driving by and decided to take a look - it was one of those super crowded LFS that sells mostly parrot foods and hamster beddings, so I said screw this. When I turned around, I saw the most shocking thing ever - a "Yellow" Tang housed in a betta bowl!!! I kid you not. It was horrific scene, it wasn't even yellow anymore.. it was pale white and uber thin. It makes Petco look 50x better

[ziggy222]

you should'nt have told anyone the tanks were turned off.at least the fisah would be put out off their misery.i have to show my woman this thread tonight so she can tell you about 30 dead fish a day and the things she saw there before she quit.she showed me their set up once.they used a tidepool filter with nothing in it.the water just flowed through and one hour a month they ran carbon.all the fish were fed seaweed.every fish i ever bought there died within a week.she was'nt aloud to give advice,so she had to watch as customers were told incorrect advice.being ignorant is one thing but she was'nt aloud to help them.well i'll let her add to it since she's the one that worked there.

[White Tiger]

"...30 dead fish a day..." (ziggy222, 2006)

And they are still not bankrupt?

[ziggy222]

they don't take any loss on those fish.their either written off,or refunded

[ziggy222_lady]

i worked at a petco in my area for a month and i quit due to the poor care that not only the fish got but the very delicate animals such as the birds got as well. i myself personally "scooped" out atleast 30 plus fish a night. they are idealy supposed to be "scooped" every hour but are usually left until the end of the night. their SW section is very small and very sickly. i felt so bad for all the fish that were just left to die in tanks with lava rock and no carbon running. they told me when i asked them what kind of filter system they had set up that it was just a regular setup and that they ran carbon once a month for like an hour!!! the skimmer they had was overflowing and not setup correctly. i watched a blue spotted puffer die slowly over a period of a week due to poor conditions. had i had the room for the fish in my tank i would have taken it home with me, as i only had a 5 gal setup at the time i couldnt do anything but tell the head of the fish dept about it and ask why they hadnt done anything about it yet. this is the real kicker though...... the head of the fish dept, the so called expert in aquatics wasnt familiar with SW at all!!! she was a FW specialist and had no clue about any of the SW fish that she was keeping!!! when i informed her that she needed to take all the lava rock out of the SW tanks she told me that it wasnt going to hurt the fish b/c she had it in the FW side and those fish were all fine......NOT TRUE. most of the fish i scooped out were FW. they have about 6 SW sections and the rest are all FW. i no longer shop at petco nor do i tell anyone i know to go there. it just isnt worth buying a fish that will most likely die on you a few days after getting it home because they arent taking care of them properly. it makes me sick to think of all the poor fish that they kill due to incompitance. and as far as them getting reimbursed for the fish, you put them in a little black baggie and someone comes at the end of the month and picks them up and they get credit for the dead ones. which i guess makes it easier for them to loose so many and not go bankrupt. it is my opinion that petco should just close down their aquatics section of the store and stop killing fish, unless of course they want to actually hire ppl who know what they are doing and want to keep the fish alive!!!

[ziggy222_lady]

and while im thinking about it....... they didnt feed the fish the right foods either, EVERY FISH got seaweed even the fish that ate meaty foods like puffers and triggers. how did they expect to keep the poor fish alive and healty?

[ziggy222_lady]

ok as i read through the threads i have to say something else about the wonderful world of "petco". they were selling fish that were sick. there was a whole tank of neon tetras that had ich and they were just treating them and selling them at the same time.... not telling the customer that the fish was sick just gettin it outta the store. then they use the same net to sccop the sick fish out as they do the rest of the fish. so the ich spreads to other tanks. and they never QT any of the fish they get , the fish go from the bags they came shipped in to the tanks and get sold "as is".

[billsreef]

The dead fish put in the little black baggie are actually sent out for cremation to keep the PETA folks happy. They don't get credit for them. The only credit they get on dead fish is Dead on Arrival's. No wholesaler would or could give them credit on fish that die after delivery. BTW 30 FW fish cost them less than $10 when they are primarily swordtails and common tetras. That is why they don't go bankrupt. More money walks out of a store that size due to "five finger discounts" in a day. It's just chalked up the cost of doing business. Sadly it's live animals being affected.

[AngeloM3]

1st off........... the ONLY stuff i ever by from petco or petsmart is equipment (heaters, veggie clips, some foods etc...)

2nd unfortunatly they do have to keep sick fish there until they are FULLY dead! My brother works at a PETCO (he and other Fish Dept Reps have EXTENSIVE SW knowledge) and they get the animal rights activist picketing outside and stuff like that all the time. So to please everyone they HAVE to keep the fish until they are floating around belly up.

My brother has made plenty of suggestions... like to seperate sick fish or have QT tanks set up... but CORPORATE PETCO doesnt see that as being necessary

Just my $0.02

[ziggy222_lady]

i would like to say that maybe not all the petco's out there are as bad as some but i wouldnt work there again if they paid me twice as much. it just isnt worth it to see animals die. there was NO SW specialist just a FW specialist. im not bashing all of the petco stores, dont think that is what i was doing. i agree that in some places they probably do have ppl there that know their ****. just saying that the one i worked at and the few i have been to did not have such ppl.

[Chad Vossen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7287851#post7287851 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
Well, we dont have a petco around where I live, but my LFS is worse than any Petco horror story. The cram Ritteri, BTA, LTA Condys and other anemones into the same tanks. Im talking about 10-15 in a 20 gal tank, with alot of other creatures and two RO florescent lamps. Even their mangroves dont last very long. Even then the have RTN coral labled as "rescue corals". Quite frankly, if you dont get to the LFS before they introduce the item into their tanks, you will have a longer recoup time, if they survive at all. Its amazing to see Rock Anemones (Aiptias... sorry cant spell that one) covering their LPS and SPS specimins. I dont know, I think a Petco might be better so atleast my LFS cleans up it's act.

Heck, a bad LFS almost want me to start a LFS with better ethics
i work at a LFS and my boss crams all kinds of anemones in a 18x18 space. i often seperate the anemones the best i can but they move and get messed up.. PLUS most of the anemones are pure white and he sells them as if they were perfectly healthy. his fish selection is fine. all of the fish are in tanks that are treated with copper power. it works is all i can say about that.
he has a reef tank that he sells live rock and corals from, well he thinks running the skimmer is a bad thing and runs it 1 day per month and his shipment of live rock which was covered in caroline algae quickly turned into green rocks.. his corals dont do much better either. actualy on a second thought, i hate my boss lol. he acts like he knows all but after all i have learned and experienced, i know he is an amature.

im moving out of state and plan to take up a job at some petco because of the decent pay and my interest in the job. i think i can improve the conditions if they are poor.

[White Tiger]

"they were selling fish that were sick. there was a whole tank of neon tetras that had ich and they were just treating them and selling them at the same time.... not telling the customer that the fish was sick just gettin it outta the store." (ziggy222_lady, 2006)

The Petco in my area quarintines fish that are sick. Furthermore, they actually will not sell you a fish that is sick.

[ziggy222]

armagedon48 i don't know what you concider decent pay, but the petco out here pays minimum wage.unless your planning to be the regional manager i think you'll be in the poor house.in my neighborhood,if your not making $15 an hour you won't be able to afford a one room apartment.my neighbor is a doctor and lives in a house trailer.

[angels mcgee]

Did you guys here, petco was bought out by a private company

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7782077#post7782077 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by angels mcgee
Did you guys here, petco was bought out by a private company

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=885592

;)

[MAreefer1]

wow, thats suprising, maybe things could change...

[MyCatsDrool]

Hi there!

One of my good friends is the aquatics and reptiles dept manager at my local petco.

This is how corporate petco is/was before the very recent takeover.

He has oodles of fish care experience, having at once time run a business with his family on tank setup and maintenence in NYC. In fact, I trust him to baby sit my fish when I am out of town and often go to him for GOOD advice.
He is NOT allowed to medicate a sick animal.
He is NOT allowed to removed and quarentine a sick animal
He is NOT allowed to modify stock, in the store or what they are/will receive.
He is NOT allowed any control over their diet
The list goes on and on. He has to simply watch helplessly while fish die.

However, he does work hard to educate the customers who purchase the fish. He has broken rules on occasion, and done what he felt was right.

The petco employees in the store are usually not responsible. The corporation is. Their rules are VERY strict. It makes my friend miserable most of the time. He is working on creating enough customer base and money to start a biz of his own down here.

[johnnybravo234]

I used to work at one and sometimes id remove "dead" fish and bring them home to my quarantine until they were well enough to be taken to my lfs hehe... I couldnt stand the place they should go burn in hell.

[tkeracer619]

Went to the petkiller yesterday for some cat treats and some fish food. My jeeps not so well after an accident so I didnt want to go far.

they had 3 perculas that have rotted away jaws and fins. Thier whole body looks like its rotting with them alive. I tried to take some pictures. They would be good for this thread.


I used to try to get deals from petkiller but man thier tanks must have just been in great shape when I moved here. They need to loose the salt water section.

[tkeracer619]

you would figure with as many hits as this site gets per day. And this thread is on the front page of the responsible reefkeeping for months that.... someone in a suit would figure it out already. I vote for worst corporate managment. Go back to school petco suits, your not doing a good job, at all.

The problem could be an easy fix but you want nothing of it.

If I had the money to buy petco out. They would all turn into skate parks for kids in honor of all the fish you have killed.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7762428#post7762428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ziggy222
they don't take any loss on those fish.their either written off,or refunded

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7763057#post7763057 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
The dead fish put in the little black baggie are actually sent out for cremation to keep the PETA folks happy. They don't get credit for them. The only credit they get on dead fish is Dead on Arrival's. No wholesaler would or could give them credit on fish that die after delivery. BTW 30 FW fish cost them less than $10 when they are primarily swordtails and common tetras. That is why they don't go bankrupt. More money walks out of a store that size due to "five finger discounts" in a day. It's just chalked up the cost of doing business. Sadly it's live animals being affected.

Way less than $10...most of the deaths per day are $.01 comets...and swordtails...and $.50 fantail goldfish...and $1 W.S. guppies used to be really bad till I started using IO to keep the guppy/molly/platy.swordtail system at half natural SW strength. What hurts the most is when a big blood parrot cichlid or a saltwater fish bites it out of the blue. Most individual petcos don't really seem to mind their fish profit or loses, one close to here is about $1000 in the hole for the past 18 weeks, but I run mine to make sure we make a profit and don't lose fish cuase I care about shrink and deaths etc...anyway, good post billsreef.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7761196#post7761196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ziggy222
30 dead fish a day and the things she saw there before she quit.she showed me their set up once.they used a tidepool filter with nothing in it.the water just flowed through and one hour a month they ran carbon.all the fish were fed seaweed.every fish i ever bought there died within a week.she was'nt aloud to give advice,so she had to watch as customers were told incorrect advice.being ignorant is one thing but she was'nt aloud to help them.well i'll let her add to it since she's the one that worked there.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7762944#post7762944 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ziggy222_lady
and while im thinking about it....... they didnt feed the fish the right foods either, EVERY FISH got seaweed even the fish that ate meaty foods like puffers and triggers. how did they expect to keep the poor fish alive and healty?

Dude, fix it! You can feed the fish anything in the freezer or on the shelf (or in a tank in the case of puffers, triggers, oscars etc.. ;) )! You can order all the filters and carbon pads you want for free from the online supply system (and we run carbon 24/7 unless I'm medicating). "Wasn't allowed to give advice?"Then what were they being paid for? My petco doesn't have any room for somebody that doesn't know anything about at least one of the animal departments..and if they know it then they better share it or they are pretty much worthless.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7762937#post7762937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ziggy222_lady
i worked at a petco in my area for a month and i quit due to the poor care that not only the fish got but the very delicate animals such as the birds got as well. i myself personally "scooped" out atleast 30 plus fish a night. they are idealy supposed to be "scooped" every hour but are usually left until the end of the night. their SW section is very small and very sickly. i felt so bad for all the fish that were just left to die in tanks with lava rock and no carbon running. they told me when i asked them what kind of filter system they had set up that it was just a regular setup and that they ran carbon once a month for like an hour!!! the skimmer they had was overflowing and not setup correctly. i watched a blue spotted puffer die slowly over a period of a week due to poor conditions. had i had the room for the fish in my tank i would have taken it home with me, as i only had a 5 gal setup at the time i couldnt do anything but tell the head of the fish dept about it and ask why they hadnt done anything about it yet. this is the real kicker though...... the head of the fish dept, the so called expert in aquatics wasnt familiar with SW at all!!! she was a FW specialist and had no clue about any of the SW fish that she was keeping!!! when i informed her that she needed to take all the lava rock out of the SW tanks she told me that it wasnt going to hurt the fish b/c she had it in the FW side and those fish were all fine......NOT TRUE. most of the fish i scooped out were FW. they have about 6 SW sections and the rest are all FW. i no longer shop at petco nor do i tell anyone i know to go there. it just isnt worth buying a fish that will most likely die on you a few days after getting it home because they arent taking care of them properly. it makes me sick to think of all the poor fish that they kill due to incompitance. and as far as them getting reimbursed for the fish, you put them in a little black baggie and someone comes at the end of the month and picks them up and they get credit for the dead ones. which i guess makes it easier for them to loose so many and not go bankrupt. it is my opinion that petco should just close down their aquatics section of the store and stop killing fish, unless of course they want to actually hire ppl who know what they are doing and want to keep the fish alive!!!

I agree that lava rock doesn't look the most natural, but in a system like the MARS I don't see anything wrong with it? Phosphates? A no issue. Silicates? No issue. A 10 gallon reef with a weekly water change? I'd leave it out, but in the MARS I can't imagine it hurting anything. We just got a big push of tangs and I threw some into the tanks to give everybody a place to hide and I haven't seen any problems yet...now that tufa rock is worthless...a few weeks in the tanks and you can crumble it up in your hands.
You wouldn't scoop out so many dead fish if A) you didn't keep so many of so many different things on hand, and B) you didn't order what doesn't sell and just sits in the tanks until they die.
'I watched a puffer die over a week due to the poor conditions.' That death is on you man. There's a wall of medications, all the water and IO you could use for water changes, carbon pads are free, the skimmer is easy to tweak and clean, freezer full of food etc...Assuming of coarse that the fish could be helped in the first place...which is a very big assumption and in that case it's not anybody's fualt. It is too bad that the fish CAS doesn't know SW, but it sounds like you could help out...they hired you and you know what your are doing and want to keep fish alive right?

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7767393#post7767393 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AngeloM3
1st off........... the ONLY stuff i ever by from petco or petsmart is equipment (heaters, veggie clips, some foods etc...)

That's the whole point, About 2.5% of my stores weekly sales come from FW fish, SW fish, and aquatic plants..combined...tanks, heaters, food etc...make up a lot more...as a comparison, premium dog food (Hills, NC, Euk etc..) make up about 25-30% of our weekly sales...guess what the suits care more about selling.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7767393#post7767393 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AngeloM3

2nd unfortunatly they do have to keep sick fish there until they are FULLY dead! My brother works at a PETCO (he and other Fish Dept Reps have EXTENSIVE SW knowledge) and they get the animal rights activist picketing outside and stuff like that all the time. So to please everyone they HAVE to keep the fish until they are floating around belly up.

My brother has made plenty of suggestions... like to seperate sick fish or have QT tanks set up... but CORPORATE PETCO doesnt see that as being necessary

Just my $0.02
Another great employee. Picketers won't keep fish from dying and ferrets from living in their own ****, but your borther and his friends can.
Personally, I don't like leaving them in there to die..they look like crap and everyone asks what is wrong and points them out...If you can scoop it out with your hand it's probably too far gone. The store keeps a bottle of Finquel in the safe, I took it out and put it under the sink, keep some mixed up, supposed to be the most humane, but the freezer or a good smack get them just as dead just as quick.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7782333#post7782333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=885592

;)
It hasn'y actually gone through yet..shareholders are supposed to vote really soon though..haven't seen/heard/felt any changes though...well there has been a really big push to decrease fish shrink, of cuarse I'm a few steps ahead of the game there :P

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8224185#post8224185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MyCatsDrool
Hi there!

One of my good friends is the aquatics and reptiles dept manager at my local petco.



I guess that's what I am, Team Lead in charge of the aquatic department and all of the live animals in general...my nametag literally says "The Guru." ;)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8224185#post8224185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MyCatsDrool

This is how corporate petco is/was before the very recent takeover.

He has oodles of fish care experience, having at once time run a business with his family on tank setup and maintenence in NYC. In fact, I trust him to baby sit my fish when I am out of town and often go to him for GOOD advice.
He is NOT allowed to medicate a sick animal.
He is NOT allowed to removed and quarentine a sick animal
He is NOT allowed to modify stock, in the store or what they are/will receive.
He is NOT allowed any control over their diet
The list goes on and on. He has to simply watch helplessly while fish die.

Someone mentioned this earlier and I started a few months ago, but I too now run copper safe in my SW system 24/7..so what if I can't sell $20 worth of inverts a week..I'm dang sure to not be selling any sick fish (): )
You can order as much coppersafe as you want from the store online supply system (OSS) for free...it comes in gallon jugs, you can also store use anything on the shelfs...though besides coppersafe the only thing I've found worth using is Maracyn if you get a cyano outbreak.
We can don't have a QT tank, though I've heard some stores do have them set up in the back...no LFSs around here QT either...between the copper and the maracyn my tanks are sterile anyway. SW fish don't really get sick in my tanks, they're either DOA, dead within 24 hours, or die at some random time after looking fine 20 minutes before hand.

You can modify stock and what the stoer recieves down to the fish. Yes the fish are supposed to be planogramed and you're supposed to have so many of this kind of fish and that kind of fish...but nobody is gonna call you on it...The biggest factor of me turning my store around when I took over the fish dept. was to not just walk down the row and blindly order whatever looked a little low...I went into Polaris and found what we sold and what died and what we made money on and what we didn't and actually used reason when I ordered. I called our wholesaler Seagrest Farms in Florida and got Dot (a very nice lady) to fax us their real availability list every week and I get to try out new things and if they work then I keep them and if not then I try other things..like florida flagfish, I was sure they were gonna sell when I told people that I had a relativley peacful cichlid that ate algea and only cost $2...but I was wrong...and there's so many fish on the planogram that I don't order anymore...but there's lots of nice fish that aren't on the planogram...My petco is one of two stores within 150 miles where you can get Amano shrimp, Black and purple emperor tetras, cardinal tetras, congo tetras, true siamensis flying foxes, kribs, german blue rams, frontosas, etc...
It is true that the store will get a push of fish from time to time that you have no control over, half of the time i think the petco buyer must just owe somebody a favor becuase the fish are always from some other vendor and they are usually smaller and sickly and almost always end up hurting my bottom line in shrink. The pushed fish are always on sale so they are usually gone pretty quick, but when they die it still coun't against you at full retail :P...But it's easy to find room for the extra fish cuase you got so much extra room from not ordering all the crap that doesn't sell...like gold mollies...no petco in America makes money from golden mollies (or black swordtails, or small black moors)..it's not worth keeping them in the store to sell 1 out of 12 over a four week period while the rest die off...so there are some extra tanks right there to put something else in (red tuxedo platies and creamsicle mollies, double swordtails, and extra large comets, in my case, all good sellers.)

Again you can feed them anything in the freezer or on the shelf. (At the top of the "dead list (unsellable merchindise form)" there are a few lines for "store use" just take it and write down the sku, there is a budget though so be judicious) You can order also order all the flake food, frozen bloodworms, frozen krill, frozen silversides, and nori for free from the OSS and Polaris (the nori comes by the pound! Have you ever seen a pound of nori...it's the size of a large dictionary!) WIth all that store use stuff and a shelf pulled bottle of formula 1 pellets there's not much that i haven't been able to feed...of cuarse I don't order impossable to feed stuff either though..like a few of the more finiky butterflies for example.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8224185#post8224185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MyCatsDrool

However, he does work hard to educate the customers who purchase the fish. He has broken rules on occasion, and done what he felt was right.
The petco employees in the store are usually not responsible. The corporation is. Their rules are VERY strict. It makes my friend miserable most of the time. He is working on creating enough customer base and money to start a biz of his own down here.

Word...The best thing he can do is run the fish dept. like it's his own little pet store..Since I started doing that everything has been for the best. Do what I did, make yourself indispensable and you can do whatever you want, being a team lead doesn't hurt either.

It's like I mentioned earlier...the people are complaining about the corperation, when they are the one's watching it happen.
One of my employees actually called the head office to complain about the care of the guinea pigs, there was a sick one in the wellness room and apparently it's cage litter hadn't been changed in a few days. So my store got this nasty head office email and had to jump through all these hoops...becuase this employee complained becuase HER JOB hadn't been done, WTH?
She was like "I didn't mention it to ya'll cuase I thought I would get fired." And I was like, for what? Doing your job? Anyway, our store has never fired anyone, dispite our best interests.

Anyway, Cheers,
Grimmjohn

PS, I'm working on being the only petco in AR to be able to sell coral and LR, woot!

[billsreef]

John,

That buyout vote is only a mere formality since Devine, Meyers, et al own the controlling shares ;) They did the same thing with the same investment groups several years back when the stock crashed big time. Interestingly the top dogs sold large blocks of shares just before the quarter report came out that triggered the stock crash.

BTW, you should consider yourself lucky with what your store and district management let you do with your fishroom. Some districts and stores are run in such a way that you would have your head handed to you for pulling items off the shelf or not following the planogram.

[ziggy222]

i'm not buying it.your gonna get fired if you continue saving animals .mark my words grimmjohn,you will get fired or will quit very soon.people that care about animals and fish don't last long there.go in any one of their stores and open the door under the saltwater tanks.there you will see a tidepool water filter with a biofilter in it with nothing else,no sand,no plants,no carbon,nothing else at all,and thats for all the tanks in that wall.i urge anyone to look for themselves,its not like they will arrest you for looking,they will just ask you to please close the door.but no one will even notice you looking most likely.that has been the case in all 3 of the stores i've been in the monroeville,pa,north hills.pa,and cranberry.pa.to say anything else is to lie or not know any better.also before i go,i just wanna say that wether or not they change owners has nothing to do with the animals care.it would be sold as an existing buisiness and run the same.in fact i may question the persons morals that would step in and save or buy a store that was run as such.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8390205#post8390205 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
John,

That buyout vote is only a mere formality since Devine, Meyers, et al own the controlling shares ;) They did the same thing with the same investment groups several years back when the stock crashed big time. Interestingly the top dogs sold large blocks of shares just before the quarter report came out that triggered the stock crash.

BTW, you should consider yourself lucky with what your store and district management let you do with your fishroom. Some districts and stores are run in such a way that you would have your head handed to you for pulling items off the shelf or not following the planogram.

That's what I get for getting my news from the Petco Portal Store homepage ;)

Yeah, I know I'm lucky, I read back through my posts from like a year ago and am amazed at all I've accomplished and how my tone has changed...but if I did it then anyone can. When I started really playing with our planogram we had one of the most hardcore district managers in the company...one visit he mentioned it, I told him I just stopped ordering what died and didn't sell, he went into Polaris, checked it out, and never said another word to me as long as the tanks were clean when he visited. And the new DM is a transplant from the furniture industry, he's a really nice guy, just doens't know about the animals. He just goes down his animal care checklist when he visits and that's the end of it..."Tanks free of algae..check, Two plants and a rock in every tank..check, Millet in the bird cages..check etc..."

yeah, I'm carefull about the store use, cuase there is a store/district budget, I only store use wardly flake, ciclid pellets, formula 1, and some maracyn if there is a cyano bloom. Doesn't come close to the amount we store use in Carefresh bedding every month. Everything else I can order over the OSS for free or really cheap with the stores monthly store use budget


The RCAC really knows her crap though and she is also very hardcore...and she has never said a word about the planogram issue...just hands out the 100s on the animal care audit () : ) ...if you order over your limits then you will get some inquiring emails from the DM and RCAC, but that's the end of it. The last time they were both here together I recently had turned the biggest center section of our plant/koi tank into an awesome planted community display tank commplete with one of my spare metal halides (hey, I look at the tanks at work more than mine at home...so that is now MY tank, it's got cardinals, emporers, corys, all the best plants we get in etc...), The DM and RCAC both thought it was beautiful, expecially when I told them that our plant sales have quadrupled since I set it up. We get complements on it every day...and I recently emailed our RCAC about me setting up a 30 cube with a skimmer and another metal halide for a SW display tank too, so that we can sell LR and corals (my SW tanks are coppered to hell :P ) I'm already the best SW petco in AR, and being the only invert/LR store would put me on the next level.

I haven't gotten a response yet though...hopefully it doesn't get me fired...i went back through all the fish order/fish sale numbers for every store in AR for the past 18 weeks...figured up the wholesale cost of everything every store ordered and then compared it to the sales to find the "best" petco in AR...over the past 18 weeks my total profit is only a few hundred dollars less than the top SW sales store in the state...and that store is in Fort Smith...which A) doesn't have 2 very nice reef stores within 15 minutes of them (4 within 40 minutes...the Ft. Smith store only has Just Fish, which should hardly be competition, and then it's an hour drive to the next reef store) and B) That store averages 60K a week in total sales...my store averages 32K a week (petsmart across the street, ft. smith doesn't have one)...So I hope I pointed all this out rather gently to her and she ends up giving me the OK instead of the boot.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8393768#post8393768 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ziggy222
i'm not buying it.your gonna get fired if you continue saving animals .mark my words grimmjohn,you will get fired or will quit very soon.people that care about animals and fish don't last long there.go in any one of their stores and open the door under the saltwater tanks.there you will see a tidepool water filter with a biofilter in it with nothing else,no sand,no plants,no carbon,nothing else at all,and thats for all the tanks in that wall.i urge anyone to look for themselves,its not like they will arrest you for looking,they will just ask you to please close the door.but no one will even notice you looking most likely.that has been the case in all 3 of the stores i've been in the monroeville,pa,north hills.pa,and cranberry.pa.to say anything else is to lie or not know any better.also before i go,i just wanna say that wether or not they change owners has nothing to do with the animals care.it would be sold as an existing buisiness and run the same.in fact i may question the persons morals that would step in and save or buy a store that was run as such.

Ziggy, in Nov I will have worked there for 1 year...I'm very familiar with the filtration system, there should be carbon in them, not that it is gonna be too bad if there's not, there is a skimmer on the SW tanks, and I've got the auto-top-off doing a 20% water change on all the tanks every few days..what more do you want?
That biowheel ensures that every fish in the tanks could die and rot and you still would probably not see an ammonia or nitrite spike, and the ATO ensures that the nitates never get over 20...


Cheers,

grimmjohn

[ziggy222]

i don't know what store your at but the ones listed did'nt have auto top off systems or skimmers.like i said,and i saw it myself and my girl freind worked there and showed me,the only filter was the bio-wheel.in case you have'nt been listening ,all those good things you are supposedly doing at your store are not allowed in any of the ones i've visited and are a firing offence.oh and if you are another one of the stores putting lava rock in your sw tanks,pleaseeeee stop it.there are minerals in those rocks that don't belong there.you are slowly poisoning your fish to death.they will die in about a mouth wether its in your tank or the customers,some will make it but barely.you would'nt want to be poisoned and neither would your fish.

[GSMguy]

ok this is worse than anything i have seen in any petco but petco is to blame.
my local mexican food joint its an el canelo. anyway they have always had a 120g saltwater fish only system about 6 months ago i went in and they had a makeshift divider in the tank with a 14 inch blue spotted grouper now i go in last week and the tank with the grouper and damsels now hasa grouper damsels and comet goldfish koi oscars and plecostomass i tried to explain that they will all die the tank looked like some one was making a live fish soup they did not understand the difference all their fish com from PETCO its not about the good stuff that happens in petco but a local aquarium store might not have let something like this happen im sure they are all dead i will never go back to see it made me sick

[reefman23]

I too used to be an asst. manager at Petco and all I can say is that NOT ONE of the managers at the store level EVER WANTED to even carry the fish. There is nearly no money made from the sales of fish (salt OR fresh). I think the main reason that PETCO's corp's want to continue to carry the fish is that they assume in some way that it will help sales in the aquarium and fish supply sections. Also, I dont know how these PETCO's can afford to stock the expensive fish and such that I see in these pics because you are only allowed to purchase something like 1.5x the sales from the previous week. So if you only sold $30 in saltwater fish in the previous week, corporate only allows you to buy $45 in saltwater fish from the breeder. And of course the associates are going to be much less knowlegeable than they should be. Anyone with a good aquatics background who goes into a PETCO to apply for a job is going to be automatically turned off by the sights of most of Petcos tanks. 90% of the people who work at petco are there because it is a job that gives them a paycheck. 10% work there because the really care for animals and they really like what they do.

I have to agree though that you could walk into any LFS and see some of the same things that you see at Petco. No store can afford to PROPERLY house a fish while in their care. They are only holding the fish until they can sell it to somewho who CAN house it properly. THey arent going to have a dozen 50 gallon tanks to house a dozen tangs. They are going to put half a dozen in two different tanks.

Anyways... dont buy your fish from petco, and spread the word to others as well, and hopefully some day petco will make the decision NOT to carry fish anymore... that is the best you can hoe for.

Jesse

[anarchtech]

I was thinking of going to the Petco in Cleveland, Tn. If a fish is $40.00 in the local stores it's $17.00 at Petco, seems like anyway. Thanks for the warning I probably won't do that now, price isn't everything.

[GSMguy]

you live in cleveland and you want to go to petco you onl want to go to salty critter nowhere else

[sharla1234]

BOYCOTT PETCO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[ziggy222]

what we ought to do is start a thread about good stores in different areas.for my area i have to say Under The Sea is absolutely the best store.Cranberry Twp.Pennsylvania.does this sound a little better than talking about petco?idk about everyone else but talking about that store gets me a lil down.i'd rather talk about the good stores cause some stores do go above and beyond.

[Rewd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8389814#post8389814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by grimmjohn
That's the whole point, About 2.5% of my stores weekly sales come from FW fish, SW fish, and aquatic plants..combined...tanks, heaters, food etc...make up a lot more...as a comparison, premium dog food (Hills, NC, Euk etc..) make up about 25-30% of our weekly sales...guess what the suits care more about selling.


Another great employee. Picketers won't keep fish from dying and ferrets from living in their own ****, but your borther and his friends can.
Personally, I don't like leaving them in there to die..they look like crap and everyone asks what is wrong and points them out...If you can scoop it out with your hand it's probably too far gone. The store keeps a bottle of Finquel in the safe, I took it out and put it under the sink, keep some mixed up, supposed to be the most humane, but the freezer or a good smack get them just as dead just as quick.


It hasn'y actually gone through yet..shareholders are supposed to vote really soon though..haven't seen/heard/felt any changes though...well there has been a really big push to decrease fish shrink, of cuarse I'm a few steps ahead of the game there :P



I guess that's what I am, Team Lead in charge of the aquatic department and all of the live animals in general...my nametag literally says "The Guru." ;)


Someone mentioned this earlier and I started a few months ago, but I too now run copper safe in my SW system 24/7..so what if I can't sell $20 worth of inverts a week..I'm dang sure to not be selling any sick fish (): )
You can order as much coppersafe as you want from the store online supply system (OSS) for free...it comes in gallon jugs, you can also store use anything on the shelfs...though besides coppersafe the only thing I've found worth using is Maracyn if you get a cyano outbreak.
We can don't have a QT tank, though I've heard some stores do have them set up in the back...no LFSs around here QT either...between the copper and the maracyn my tanks are sterile anyway. SW fish don't really get sick in my tanks, they're either DOA, dead within 24 hours, or die at some random time after looking fine 20 minutes before hand.

You can modify stock and what the stoer recieves down to the fish. Yes the fish are supposed to be planogramed and you're supposed to have so many of this kind of fish and that kind of fish...but nobody is gonna call you on it...The biggest factor of me turning my store around when I took over the fish dept. was to not just walk down the row and blindly order whatever looked a little low...I went into Polaris and found what we sold and what died and what we made money on and what we didn't and actually used reason when I ordered. I called our wholesaler Seagrest Farms in Florida and got Dot (a very nice lady) to fax us their real availability list every week and I get to try out new things and if they work then I keep them and if not then I try other things..like florida flagfish, I was sure they were gonna sell when I told people that I had a relativley peacful cichlid that ate algea and only cost $2...but I was wrong...and there's so many fish on the planogram that I don't order anymore...but there's lots of nice fish that aren't on the planogram...My petco is one of two stores within 150 miles where you can get Amano shrimp, Black and purple emperor tetras, cardinal tetras, congo tetras, true siamensis flying foxes, kribs, german blue rams, frontosas, etc...
It is true that the store will get a push of fish from time to time that you have no control over, half of the time i think the petco buyer must just owe somebody a favor becuase the fish are always from some other vendor and they are usually smaller and sickly and almost always end up hurting my bottom line in shrink. The pushed fish are always on sale so they are usually gone pretty quick, but when they die it still coun't against you at full retail :P...But it's easy to find room for the extra fish cuase you got so much extra room from not ordering all the crap that doesn't sell...like gold mollies...no petco in America makes money from golden mollies (or black swordtails, or small black moors)..it's not worth keeping them in the store to sell 1 out of 12 over a four week period while the rest die off...so there are some extra tanks right there to put something else in (red tuxedo platies and creamsicle mollies, double swordtails, and extra large comets, in my case, all good sellers.)

Again you can feed them anything in the freezer or on the shelf. (At the top of the "dead list (unsellable merchindise form)" there are a few lines for "store use" just take it and write down the sku, there is a budget though so be judicious) You can order also order all the flake food, frozen bloodworms, frozen krill, frozen silversides, and nori for free from the OSS and Polaris (the nori comes by the pound! Have you ever seen a pound of nori...it's the size of a large dictionary!) WIth all that store use stuff and a shelf pulled bottle of formula 1 pellets there's not much that i haven't been able to feed...of cuarse I don't order impossable to feed stuff either though..like a few of the more finiky butterflies for example.


Word...The best thing he can do is run the fish dept. like it's his own little pet store..Since I started doing that everything has been for the best. Do what I did, make yourself indispensable and you can do whatever you want, being a team lead doesn't hurt either.

It's like I mentioned earlier...the people are complaining about the corperation, when they are the one's watching it happen.
One of my employees actually called the head office to complain about the care of the guinea pigs, there was a sick one in the wellness room and apparently it's cage litter hadn't been changed in a few days. So my store got this nasty head office email and had to jump through all these hoops...becuase this employee complained becuase HER JOB hadn't been done, WTH?
She was like "I didn't mention it to ya'll cuase I thought I would get fired." And I was like, for what? Doing your job? Anyway, our store has never fired anyone, dispite our best interests.

Anyway, Cheers,
Grimmjohn

PS, I'm working on being the only petco in AR to be able to sell coral and LR, woot!

John,

I'm in the same boat as you. Just about everything you describe about your Petco is how mine is. It's NOT the corperation at all, it's the people who work in the bad stores that give this company a bad name. And there are a lot of them. Lucky for us we both seem to work in a place where the people are decent. I love my coworkers--we're all animal nuts and our manager is the most anal retentive person under the sun when it comes to the animal care and in a business like this that's the ONLY way to be otherwise the animals suffer. The criteria the RCAC's and district managers follow for their animal care audits is very strict. My store gets 99's and 100's on almost every visit.

I read Petco employees complain all the time about not being able to feed their fish anything good or medicate them. I don't understand any of this. I have an entire shelf on the bottom of our frozen food freezer for my "stash" of food that's JUST for our SW fish. I "store use" everything and anything and I very their diets up all the time. And for meds I always have a supply of various antibiotics and industrial strength melafix on hand at all times all ordered off the "portal" supply system. The only exception to that is Quick Cure. Apparently Petco doesn't use that to treat Ich but we got special permission from our RCAC to store use it since it's the only stuff I trust.

Lucky for me when I took over our fish department it was after the former specialist who had been there for 9 years (since the store opened) had moved up to a managment position. I had nothing to clean up as it was a great place to get fish prior (one of the only stores in my area I would shop at). Although I don't really need her expertise on fish themselves, I do have the incredible benefit of her 9 years of experience on how to run a department like that. It's extremely helpful.

On the flip side, we have a store that's about 10 minutes from us that just opened. Been going thru all sorts of problems since day 1. Poor management, lack of hours, incredibly lazy employees, etc etc. Of course the fish have suffered big time. Their current fish specialist is cleaning things up a bit but he still has his issues. He worries more about their display tanks then the actual fish for sale, refuses to "store use" any food except the crappy Wardley's brand flakes the store orders because he's worried about shrink (what happened to animals first?).. etc. It's a real mess.

[grimmjohn]

Hehe, "Shrink,"what's worse...a pack of frozen food that we paid $.50 wholesale for, or a SW fish that we paid $12 for?
Sounds like the store they opened up recently in Rogers, Arkansas...look in Polaris at their SW numbers after they first opened...it was very bad...but they've really picked it up recently and haven't lost much.

Glad to hear that your store is doing well and you're enjoying your job () : )
(9 years!! Dear God, I love my store and all, but wow)

I've actually taken some time off cuase grad school and my masters thesis is taking precedence over working 40 hours a week (I was opening the store at 7AM, going to class, then closing the store at 10, then working most of the day Sat., ordering fish and animals on Sunday, then working 5 or 6 hours at a dedicated reef store on Sunday as well.) So hopefully everything is still going well. Tommorrow will be the first week I haven't ordered the fish in a long time.
I may or may not be back next semester, depends on my schedule. I've also got some internships in the works at either the audubon society, Arkansas Game and Fish, or US F&W for more money and a future...if I had the opportunity to become managment in the area any time soon then it would be a different story, but I don't.
My 1 year anniversery would have been in 4 days, guess I'm still an employee, but I'm gonna stay off the schedule indeffinetly. and if they let me go they let me go.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[MAreefer1]

wow, I have alot of reading to do. I havnt been keeping up with the thread lately

[sndwave80]

I worked at a Petco in Wisconsin for nearly 9years. From what I have read users: Reef Shadow, Fake name, and Ficklefins understand what goes on in the type of stores. Many of the employees that are employed have a high turn around rate. During my time there my only Fresh water/ Salt-water information was what I received in training. The information was well put together, but very basic fish husbandry and product identification. I would pick up new information from other customer that would come in.
I didn’t get most of my knowledge until I starting reading many of the books on my own time. Which Petco has a program where they allow the employee to borrow many of the books and return them. This only works if you run into an employee who wants to know and understand more. When you think of the store on your area it may have 15 tanks running all on one filter system. I ask the same questions about the tank sizes and the aquatic life that is in them. The tanks are not that large due to space and the fish are not to be there for long periods of time. I did/do encourage customers to come in on delivery days and purchase them while they are still their original bags. This is less stress on the animal.
In my location several others and I had an active voice on concerns with in our store. And yes it take several weeks to months to see change. But things did change. The best an individual can do is voice these concerns to the general manager and point out the advice you may have or the advice of the employee who’s trying to make change.
The person who started this thread may have had good intention on pointing out flaws in a system or just add to growing problem in the pet industry. But did you inform that employee of your concerns about their answers? I would think, No. So in turn you have just added to the problem nothing more. There was a thread that said Petco should just kill animals if they look ill. That is an unlikely solution as it breaks many state laws that these types of businesses have to follow. Not to mention PETA strongly frowns on this type of action.
This could go on for some time but when it comes down to it. You as individuals need to help those in your area. We now have a Petco, Pet Smart and three local fish shops. I don’t pretend to know it all but I am sure to give my input when needed or assist another customer who is in need. I enjoy my 120g salt-water tank and our local Salt Water Club. Our club voices concerns and helps to educate other staff and people in our area. You should use your knowledge to do the same. This is about the life we intend to keep, not pointing fingers.

[syrinx]

Its not uncommon for a high volume pet store not to do much in the way of water changes. What you tend to forget is they are doing constant partial changes with each fish they sell. You see the fish go home in bags of water that have to be replaced. One of my systems would lose 20% of its volume on a busy day!

[Rewd]

syrinx, I don't know about any LFS you go to but the Petco I work at ever last one of our freshwater systems runs on a constant 24/7 freshwater drip.

Not to mention at the push of a button a 20% water change can be performed on the entire system automatically. It really helps with keeping nitrates down in horrible overcrowded tanks.

[mistermikev]

Wow we got some people stirred up in here! Just thought I'd point out that as responsible and knowlegeable reefkeepers every one of you should go to petco. that's right, go there.
go there and politely and patiently talk to an employee and subtly drop some hints about what they are doing wrong. If you just walk away and don't return... several parents who's child whatched nemo will partonize the shiznit out of them and end up killing livestock. Just a thought.

[johnnybravo234]

You need a raise GTI2.0t

[pepsimax]

I used to work at a petco! I was a Team Lead, Fish Manager and Reptile Manager. It was very hard to just keep the system running. Powerheads going out all the time lights going out. But it is doable they never used to give me any money for the dep. So i would just take stuff and write it off. Lights, powerheads , food everything. I even took the dividers out of the tanks to make them bigger just cut the silicone for the dividers I did this for the reptiles to. I even made a reef tank. Not supose to but what are they going to do fire me o well. thats what I was thinking. I made a reef tank with 6 lights blue and white, re plumbed the system to run off the big sump with mutiple returns for good water flo, live rock and corals even put a skimmer on it. But as soon as I left they crashed the hole saltwater system about a month later had to ship everything to a new store. They even crashed the FW system all they carry now is guppies, and gold fish the lights dont even work it the hole system. They even crashed the plant tank and it only has one pump. I cry every time I go in there and see what they have done.

[ziggy222]

why'd you leave?

[pepsimax]

I got another job that pay was higher and better hours. And no working on holidays.:D

[hayes180]

After reading this post, my problem is how about the dogs and cats or other animals? Do you think that they are treated any better?

Also, its like buying a disk player from China made by 8 year olds. One care as long as the price is good. High horse aside it is up to people like us to not buy anything from these profiteers and buy only from true respectiful dealers.

[saltycreefer]

Just dont go into petcos!!!!!!!!!!

[JokerGirl]

It's not just a problem with Saltwater fish... its a problem with ALL their livestock.

Their birds come from the essential of a puppy mill for birds (usually missing toes from inbreeding or developing behavioural problems like feather plucking).

Their freshwater are usually horribly bred (not to mention their fresh/brackishwater puffers which they try to feed flake so they are so skinny they are more head than they are body), and of course all the saltwater issues that have been brought up.

I refuse to shop at a petco/petsmart unless its absolutely necessary. For years both have been saying that they will not be selling birds anymore because of the great care it takes to properly care for them and keep them happy. They still do, and probably always will.

[GSMguy]

petco could be the best pet store ever if they just spent a lil more to make sure the fish are healthy

[ziggy222]

actually every fish i ever bought at petsmart lived and was healthy.of cource they don't sell saltwater fish,just the supplies.every fish i ever bought from petco died no matter what i did.i never bought freshwater fish from them though.its now been a year since i've bought for either.i buy my supplies from petsuppliesplus and buy my fish and coral from underthesea.

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8661835#post8661835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JokerGirl
For years both have been saying that they will not be selling birds anymore because of the great care it takes to properly care for them and keep them happy. They still do, and probably always will.

Actually Petco stopped selling "large" birds, i.e. Amazon's, Macaw's and Cockatoo's. That decision had absolutely nothing to do with "the great care it takes to properly care for them and keep them happy". It was a agreement with PETA in order to get PETA to take down their PETNO website and stop picketing Petco's. Simple as that.

[Random Aquarist]

Why don't we just raise enough money to buy all of Petco's stock. We will own Petco and change it.

[MAreefer1]

Its a good idea, but just not plausible. Petco is worth hundereds of millions, if not billions.

[reefman23]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8661835#post8661835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JokerGirl
Their birds come from the essential of a puppy mill for birds (usually missing toes from inbreeding or developing behavioural problems like feather plucking).

You better read up before you start talking about things that you know nothing about. You cannot generalize ALL petcos as having "puppy-mill" breeders because not ALL petcos use the same breeder. Each region has it's own breeder that they deal with... this goes for the small animals, reptiles and fish as well. There is not ONE breeder for all petcos... this wouldnt make sense for reasons such as shipping, etc. Most of the 12+ petcos that I worked at all had very healthy birds from a VERY good breeder. Same with the small animals and reptiles. I DO think it was a good thing that petco agreed to stop carrying large birds because they simply dont have the time or the payroll to pay someone to spend ALL day with the bigger species to give them the proper attention that they need.

Jesse

[dolphinman213]

the coral u asked about is a pearl or bubble coral

[MAreefer1]

lol, thats funny, ur one of few who has actually said anything about the corals.

They shouldnt be carrying corals at all. For one thing, they dont have the proper lighting at all, and secondly they certainly dont care for them.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8756328#post8756328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
lol, thats funny, ur one of few who has actually said anything about the corals.

They shouldnt be carrying corals at all. For one thing, they dont have the proper lighting at all, and secondly they certainly dont care for them.

Thats not true with all of them. SOme of them have great lighting. These stores are a chain. THeres huge variation. Some are better than the LFS, some are worse.

[MAreefer1]

I agree with you there, I should have mentioned that. Not all Petco's are horrible like the sterotype describes, thats something that should be realized.

good point.

[samuels]

i've been to some good ones and some shady ones.. it depends on if the fishkeepers are knowledgeable or passionate about their jobs.

[lllosingit]

I haven't read the other 8 pages but I will say this.
My local store used to be poorly run.....Now they have someone who really seems to know what they are doing and it shows.
I would never have bought from them before but now I think the livestock looks better and seem healthier than some of the other local stores.

[kyrie_eleison]

I could tell you guys about a couple worse stories about Petco than that and that was last month alone. I don't know...I get the urge sometimes and feel like looking at what Petco stocks. I had a lady at Petco one time say it was okay to put two yellow tangs in a 10 gallon once. Man, if you guys saw the tangs they had there; they were like...those creepy scary movies where the hauntings included deadfish skeletons swimming around in putrified water and staring at you through the glass like you were some kind of meal.

What they should do is employ 2 or even 3 very intelligent and experienced aquarists (I MEAN PAY THEM SOME SERIOUS COIN) to handle the responsibility of such a serious task.

I don't know why anybody here would support Petco for any reason. I have never bought a single fish from that store and I probably never will. I strongly urge everyone here to do the same.

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8849985#post8849985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kyrie_eleison


What they should do is employ 2 or even 3 very intelligent and experienced aquarists (I MEAN PAY THEM SOME SERIOUS COIN) to handle the responsibility of such a serious task.



they could do that, or they could pay some everage joe 7.50 an hour and save the money. They have no respect for the living organisms they sell ( most petcos, not all)

[ziggy222]

actually i think at petco 7.50 is serious coin lol.or hey,idk but this just a suggestion.maybe put in a filter and use idk maybe some carbon in it.thats the black gravely looking stuff that absorbes poisons from the water.don't just dip it in there once a month either,i mean leave it in there.i've seen what petsmart and a few other stores use and its alot more than an empty tidepool water filter with nothing in it for the whole wall of tanks.oh and another suggestion,it may be a good idea to not take employees off the schedule for suggesting to use carbon and take out lava rock from the tanks cause all the fish are dead.my girlfriend reelly needed that job.

[rtstrat01]

I think its funny how you peolpe are more worried about complaining about petco and petsmart, they are all the same, have you looked at an online suppliers livestock, they probably treat theres the same, whether its fish, or birds or even puppies, the industry as a whole has issues and to sit here and complain is worthless to me, find a store you like that treats there livestock properly and go there, dont come on here and make this forum into a b**ch fest, no one is ever going to be able to solve the problems of the way lifestock are treated, whats next we going to have a 15 page forum on why you shouldn't eat usda beef, its all redicuales to me, if that store is so bad, which from the pics doesn't seem like it, then go talk to the store manager, but your not going to fix anything, all these people care about is how much that fish will line there pockets, not what happens tomorrow, and that even goes for the best of the lfs, who cares if your back tomorrow to buy another fish cause you put it in fs when its sw they just care that they moved the product out of the store. WE WILL NEVER CHANGE IT, use this site to help young hobbiest to know what they can keep and educate them, thats the only way, i was once that guy who had three tangs in a 58, but now i know better, and to say when you started you didnt would be a lie. Its an industry, and you will never solve the "unhumane", or what ever liberal term u want to use to describe it, treatment of FISH, after all thats all they are, lets not put them on the same scale as people. My local petco saleman is who got me into the hobby and helped me to grow throught the first crashes and the fustration of getting my tank running, now i have a nice reef that is my pride and joy in my front room. don't use this forum to drop to there level.

[kyrie_eleison]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8956870#post8956870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ziggy222
actually i think at petco 7.50 is serious coin lol.or hey,idk but this just a suggestion.maybe put in a filter and use idk maybe some carbon in it.thats the black gravely looking stuff that absorbes poisons from the water.don't just dip it in there once a month either,i mean leave it in there.i've seen what petsmart and a few other stores use and its alot more than an empty tidepool water filter with nothing in it for the whole wall of tanks.oh and another suggestion,it may be a good idea to not take employees off the schedule for suggesting to use carbon and take out lava rock from the tanks cause all the fish are dead.my girlfriend reelly needed that job.

ziggy,

7.50 is poverty...especially here in California. No experienced/knowledgeable aquarist is going to work for that.

rt,

You work at Petco?

[rtstrat01]

no i dont, the whole retail industry is a pity to me, on the employee side, I will never bust my balls again for what they pay. besides, this hobby is hard enough on desent wages, much less minium wages retail will put out.

[kyrie_eleison]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8963336#post8963336 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rtstrat01
no i dont, the whole retail industry is a pity to me, on the employee side, I will never bust my balls again for what they pay. besides, this hobby is hard enough on desent wages, much less minium wages retail will put out.

Well...I thought it sounded like a biased opinion. Oh well. Carry on.

[rtstrat01]

Explain how you thought it was biased please

[Rosseau]

If the conditions for these tangs and triggers is so bad then let them overcharge. People are probably more willing to neglect a $1.29 guppy than a $130 trigger. More likely the high price will encourage consumers to research and care for the animal. (or simply prolong its time sitting in the store.........)


I jumped from the first page to the last, sorry if the debate on that one is closed alreay.

[fishyz]

I was at a Petcetera and they SHOULD NOT be allowed to sell any salt water fish! Their tanks are WAY to small, and thier prices are outrageous! They don't even know what the real names of the fish are (a mandarin goby was called a lawnmower blenny). They don't feed the fish proper foods(every fish gets the same flake food) I saw an anorexic picasso and I felt soooooo bad for it. When I saw that trigger, I felt like talking the the owners of the store and talk some sence into him/her.

[Rosseau]

What city are you in ?

I was recently disgusted with a petcetera also.....

the floor staff working asked me if an anenome was a plant or an animal

[reefshadow]

Thats not true with all of them. SOme of them have great lighting. These stores are a chain. THeres huge variation. Some are better than the LFS, some are worse.

There are a few of the newer Petco "picses centers", that have sufficient lighting for corals, but there are only a few of these stores compared to the 100's that are not even close to being a decent environment for corals. This is a very rare exception, so it is incorrect to say there's huge variation from store to store.

[ronald7410]

yeh i like this thread, i actually go to petco and petsmart just to ask questions and [violation] around with the workers. its funny how they are so uneducated and uncertain about what they sell, pretty sad.

[waif]

yeah almost as sad as what your doing

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8971900#post8971900 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefshadow
There are a few of the newer Petco "picses centers", that have sufficient lighting for corals, but there are only a few of these stores compared to the 100's that are not even close to being a decent environment for corals. This is a very rare exception, so it is incorrect to say there's huge variation from store to store.
wuts a petco picses?

[jaymz101]

pisces is greek for fish.

Why are folks surprised that Petco doesnt care for their fish correctly? Everytime I log on to this forum, someone new is rantingt and raving about the conditions and pricing of fish and corals at Petco. DONT GO THERE!! Simple as that. Stop buying at Petco and they will stop carrying saltwater fish because it wont be profitable.

In the mean time, please stop the mock surprise, the huffy "Well I nevers", and the photo albums of your visit everytime you go there. What are you doing with a camera in Petco anyway. At least stop posting about it. Please. The same goes for Petsmart.

These are dog and cat stores. Go toi a specialty shop where yopu will find healthier livestock, and better and more knowlegable service.

[Rosseau]

yes we can use our dollars to decide what the stores do, however as a counterpoint, if we stop posting about these things I don't think that helpds anybody.. perhaps the "Responsible Reefkeeping" forum should be erased as well?

[Nanook]

I think this thread has run it's course.

closed