Reforming the worst of our trade;an agenda

[cortez marine]

Training cyanide fisherman as if results reallly mattered;

If it is true that coral reefs are in trouble and that the international marine ornamental trade is complicit, then it must also be true that acting appropriately and quickly to reform this situation is imperative.
For many years, NGOs have had a love-hate relationship with this industry. They blame it for destructive and non-sustainable practices and then they themselves assume the burden of field trainings that produce year after year results so small that no one in a business culture could reform with....let alone hundreds of collectors and dozens of exporters and importers.

Career and professional collectors and dealers in marine tropicals take many years to learn the secrets and the tricks of the trade. Policies and procedures for collecting and handling fishes cannot be taken lightly and glossed over and being proficient cannot be learned so easily.
Preparing oneself to train divers and handlers thru Interviews with real collectors cannot possibly be taken seriously as substitute for genuine talent and ability, The policy of not involving experienced professionals from within the trade to develop and actualize field training programs have produced now years of disappointing results in what we heard in the mision statements was a race to save coral reefs from the trade.

If there is a crisis on the reefs and if the trade is a part of that, then how can slow motion results be acceptable?
I submit to you that if this trade is to be held accountable for its practices after a decade and more of these 'NGO initiated reform programs' then the status quo of reform and conversion schemes must also be held accountable for their failure. They have failed together.

I submit to you that the industries several thousand fish collectors can be converted to sustainable collecting methodologies much quicker and cheaper then what we have been conditioned to believe.

1. Phase one; Net training and handling must come first.
Fish collectors are the point of the spear in the entire chain of custody and in all the issues arising from the question of reefs impact.Therefore, what will get them off of poison fishing and crowbar collecting, killing fishes needlessly thru lack of decompression and bad handling needs to be frontloaded .The basic skills transfer to get them off killing coral for a living is not so involved a training project.
However, it becomes too involved and complicated if burdened upfront by the conditions imposed by too much paperwork, surveys and certification schemes.
This is not to say that there cannot be reef surveys, certification schemes and paperwork later...but to lead with that has alienated and discouraged nearly everyone involved that counts most...the divers!
After Phase one....the conditions and qualifiers desired by the scientific community will not only be much easier to achieve but more readily accepted by fisherfolk.
Conditioning all progress upon acceptance of these schemes has sabatoged the entire program and always will. The mission must be split and skills transfer cannot be dependant upon so much else to go forth at the same time.
Theoretically...it might make sense to kill two birds with one stone...but the actual effect has been to scare away the birds.
2. Training must be commercially competent.
Many fisherman may seem less aware by our standards, but they can spot non-commercial behavior a mile away. In fact, it is we who have been unaware and have erroneously believed that converting fisherman is easy. It may become easier if they are first impressed with the trainers ability to actually train them by virtue of his own abilities. Training by substitute teachers, by proxy, by the manual and by trade outsiders....with inadequate materials does not work very well.
On the other hand, commercial people trained by commercial people with correct commercial netting materials for commercial results may work very well indeed!
Commercial trainings take place often for commercial purposes. When divers are needed in Mexico, Tonga or Vanuatu for example, They are trained by others who can dive, collect, handle and produce results superior to themselves. This garners a respect beyond just the personal and allows for rapid-fire results on a time table.
Netting material is generally a small component of commercial trainings. Its inclusion is simply routine. However; for what ever reason, NGO trainings have been notoriously berift of the right hand net and barrier netting materials and have suffered mightily because of this.
In Bali and the Philippines, some divers have seen several trainings but no netting. The netting, minimized by the outsider was absolutely essential to the diver to carry on the conversion.
The refusal or failure to supply the requisite nets has handicapped many years of 'training programs' and discredited them in the eyes of the fisherman. This simply has to stop if anyone cares enough to be effective.
Phase three;
Training fisherman for sustainable practices and for superior produce should be both cost and time efficient.
There is a perrenial legend of a gravy train of cash being milked from the trades unfortunate issues...and has ruined alliances and unity of purpose to the cause. The trade is not united behind NGO initiatives and this has a lot to do with it.
Again, in commercial training... cost efficiency is critical and there is never time to lose.
Get in, get it done, follow up w/ supervision til it takes and get on with the weekly flow of product. A commercial mindset on these matters is important as it gels with the fishermans view of things as well.
He is his own enterprise. He must produce results or suffer the consequences in a short time frame.
Divers tend to be primarily focused on their income , basic needs and food supply. Commercial training speaks to that. Training for the divers own priorites will actually encourage him and make him far easier to get good results out of...now and later if you wish to return to enlist him in survey research and certification administration.
However, there is no better way to discourage most divers [ and dealers for that matter] then to come to them, tag on your own agenda and say "Behold, I bring you more paperwork!"

Imagine if you will, a thousand divers converted from cyanide fishing to netsmanship first.
Imagine then, how the issues of reef management and survey work, certification notions and improving the fishermans lot in life can then benefit.
Pegging an all or nothing blunderbus approach to the entire movement has stalled it and more coral reef has been poisoned died daily while we stuggle with the politics of this and the conflict in that. Making fishermans reform a Western environmental issue, a funding gravy train and a great divider between business and the NGO community has been a disaster for the environment. Anything hoped to be certified, fine tuned better, documented or surveyed fell victim to the simple failure to connect with and enlist the sectors involved towards a common purpose..
NGO administrators priorities cannot be all their own in this struggle. They must take the blinders off and see what makes divers respond, co-operate and stay the course and what will make dealers support them.
Dealers and business people, like divers live by the imperatives of cost and time efficiency, productive results, better fish and cash flow. Learning to mesh with these other priorities will allow far greater results for everyones agenda and the coral reefs will finally get the lighter touch they need. Afterall, if its not sustainable proposition, what is it? No one makes a living, profit or a calling off a dead coral reef.
Sincerely, Steve Robinson

[jaime baquero]

Steve,


I am glad to see how gentle you are in this thread when talking about the NGO community.

It is true that the relationship between the industry and NGOs hasn't been as it should be. We know very well why that happened, it goes back to the early 90's when NGOs working in the Philippines split and created their own programs, the industry saw that as a competition and didn't know what program or organization they should support, many just did nothing. Also, I should say that by then (early 90's) aquarium hobbyists and the industry in general didn't know how serious was the problem.

During your time in the Philippines you did a good job, you trained a good number of fisherfolk. Those trainees became trainers teaching hundreds of collectors in the country how to do things right. The Filipino collectors are the best in the world, they have been teaching other collectors in different countries how to do it.

Handling and holding fish after collection is an issue that requires special attention. It has been stated since the early 90's that a considerable mortality rate is due to poor handling and holding of net-collected fish at community level.

However, net training by itself is not the answer to the problems in countries such as the Philippines and Indonesia (major suppliers of marine ornamentals). In the case of these two countries, full conversion of cyanide users can only be assured when the whole of those in the aquarium industry, including collectors, middlemen/women, exporters, importers, hobbyists, foreign suppliers of cyanide, law enforcers and the government is involved i in the process of change.

Documented experiences tell us that the problems affecting conservation are not purely technical and, hence, require solutions involving a combiantion of social, economic, and scientific strategies.

Jaime

[cortez marine]

He writes;
"full conversion of cyanide users can only be assured when the whole of those in the aquarium industry, including collectors, middlemen/women, exporters, importers, hobbyists, foreign suppliers of cyanide, law enforcers and the government is involved i in the process of change."

Since the WHOLE OF EVERTHING AND EVERYONE will never FIRST become online with anything.....you would condemn this to never being solved.
What if Ghandi and Martin Luther King thought that way?
What if any one we ever respected in history belived that you first had to unite all in common cause [ huge task] and THEN solve the problems???
History has shown that visionaries lead the way and soon it becomes more familiar and finally more acceptable to the public.
Geez, if all disparate factions were to unite so easily, why waste it on tropical fish? Lets just end world hunger and secure world peace first.
Steve

[jaime baquero]

The lack of willingness and commitment of the Filipino central government is one of the main reasons why attempts to solve the cyanide problem in the Philippines have failed, or more recently is taking too much time to see concrete results. The Filipino government must be involve in the process of change. The central government is the direct responsible of protecting the natural resources within its coastal waters. Collection of marine ornamentals in the Philippines is not regulated. Most of the work is happening to barangay level, where local authorities and the same fisherfolk are getting organize, but without the support from the central government. The BFAR is part of the picture but has not the human resources to enforce the law within the thousands of islands that form the archipelago.

Filipino central government has relied on the work of NGOs to solve the cyanide problem (used during collection of marine ornamentals). No doubt that cyanide is one of the causes of coral reef destruction in the area.

For those of us that have had the opportunity of visiting "holding facilities" at community level, in the Philippines, we know that most of the unnecessary mortality happens to this level. No government entity is checking on it, this has serious consequences on the reef since more fish have to be collected from the reef. A considerable quantity of fish are wasted because the lack of acceptable holding facilities and adequate handling practices at community level.

I think that in order to survive this fisheries should be regulated. The central governemnt of the Philippines should be part of the solution.

The Filipino government is only one of the players in this situation. There are also responsibilities attached to collectors, exporters, importers, wholesalers, retailers and finally the aquarium hobbyists. Each one of these players has to be active in the process of change.

So far the responsability has been on the shoulders of NGOs. Those same NGOs are the ones accused of inaction and lack of results. Personally, I do not think is fair.

Jaime Baquero

[jolt26]

Thank you for your interest in my country.

I have seen it myself. Diving, snorkling, with NO fishes but some little damsels. 95% of our reefs are destroyed, and a major culprit is the demand for our marine fishes and corals. Right, it is unregulated here, hence, an precise figure is not available, but approximately six million fishes disappear from our oceans.

Net-caught or not, we've been overfished. That is why my stand here is a temporary ban, or a moratorium, in fish collecting. Maybe three to five years, just allow the fishes to reproduce and thrive again. While the moratorium is in effect, we can train the collectors to use proper methods.

This is of course, easier said than done, but I think, is the most ideal in our current situation.

Local NGOs is having a hard time. The Philippine Government has TOO MUCH problems to deal with, I guess. What we can hope for is foreign assistance perhaps? Like a member here in RC said to me, he and other hobbyists in the Western world is responsible for the demand that led to overfishing and cyanide fishing. He'll gladly help in whatever means possible.

Again, thank you for your interest. All great deeds are started from small ideas.

btw, jaime, are you Filipino? your name sounds Pinoy :)

[cortez marine]

demand...in the West does not make the commodity clearances and the export process by itself.
All countries have a 100 % say over what they allow to be exported....
BFAR has not dropped the ball though....they never carried it!
I worked for them as a consultant for over a year. It was the most dysfunctional agency imagineable.
Letting foreigners come in a play games with the serious problems in the fishing sector was a denial of duty and responsibility.
The current director, Malcolm Sarmiento has relaxed...and looks towards retirement ...peacefully.
All countrys have to determine their own destiny and not delegate so much to foreigners even more out of it then they!
Steve

[jolt26]

oh well, such is the corrupt bureaucracy here. its like, everybody knows what's happening, yet, they play blind or stupid or both.

[cortez marine]

Jaime writes;
"The lack of willingness and commitment of the Filipino central government is one of the main reasons why attempts to solve the cyanide problem in the Philippines have failed,..."
Agreed...
then writes;
"The Filipino government is only one of the players in this situation"....
Huh?
The government is the power, the final authority and where all the stamped and signed documents come from to authorize the activity.

Imagine a country shirking its responsibility to run its affairs by just " letting Joe do it."
The truth is, the Bureau of Fisheries delegated to its own to handle the "tropical fish issues" and that guy was on the payroll of two foreign NGOs in a row totaling 8 years of non performance...and letting the NGOs in question handle the issues.
This person finally resigned when the latest NGO, [ his employer] pressured him to lobby the director to force exporters to become 'certified' or lose their export permits.
This level of political pressure and coercion from a foreign "non profit" group was too much and too illegal so he resigned.

Now, free of its 'Rasputin', the director of the Philippine Bureau of Fisheries is more free to think for himself!
Steve
I used to work for him as a consultant and understand what really happened only too well. The guy who resigned was my best friend and ally in the exposes of the cyanide trade back in the 80's.

[jaime baquero]

jolt26,

No, I am not Filipino. I am from Colombia, but living in Canada for over 23 winters! We have the same "roots". I met very nice people in the Philippines.

One thing that I can not understand is why the scientific community in your country is silent regarding the use of cyanide for the trade of marine ornamentals and the food fish trade. I understand the regular citizen has other priorities and doesn't know how serious is the problem.

It is the responsibility of your government to create laws and enforce them. The scientific community is the most important tool the government has to take action.

The ones that control the trade of marine ornamentals in your country are Filipino exporters with plenty of money. They do have huge exporting facilities in Manila and are connected to large importers in the United States.

It is up to the filipino people to ask the central government why the do allow this eco-cidio to happen.

jaime

[jaime baquero]

The social, economic and political context in the Philippines is what makes impossible to find a solution to the problem. The same applies to Indonesia.

Since the late 80's isolated efforts mainly from NGOs have been the only response trying to find solutions to the problem. What I'm trying to say is that each player, including the Filipino government, has to be on board in order to obtain long lasting results.

Aquarium hobbyists should encourage and support dealers selling net-caught fish, the same applies to higher levels of the chain getting to the base of the trade, the fisherfolk. That's the ideal situation, but seems that no many people care. Sometimes, I wonder myself if something as for example a boycot could have some impact.

This sounds as a broken record. Since the late 80's very little has changed.

[jolt26]

Cortez, relax. I don't want to comment on our government anymore. let's just say I have sort of given up on them doing changes. So I'm looking else where. NGO seems to be only after grant money. So where would I look? yes, the reply ablove!

"Aquarium hobbyists should encourage and support dealers selling net-caught fish, the same applies to higher levels of the chain getting to the base of the trade, the fisherfolk. That's the ideal situation, but seems that no many people care. Sometimes, I wonder myself if something as for example a boycot could have some impact. "

Yes, us, aquarium hobbyist can make a difference. Let the government do its stuff, if it doesn't, well, tough luck. If it does, better. But maybe we can do something. Yes, jaime. A boycott could definitely work. Stop the demand, you stop the supply.

[GreshamH]

And how prey tell do you think the several thousand divers, most with families to support, will feed their families during this "US boycott"? Just what will boycotting MO do for the LRF (live reef fish...and dead :mad: )trade in Asia? Think they'll stop using cyanide, bombs and other like methods of destructive fishing practices if the MO trade halts in PI? I think just the opposite will happen. The market is HUGE in LRF and I bet you the bulk of the "boycotted MO divers" will end up working the "darkside" of the LRF trade.

[jolt26]

they are already at the darkside of the trade.

as with our crackdown on illegal logging, we provide optional livelihood for illegal loggers.

again, if no one wants to buy PI fishes, then what is their reason for collecting them? they certainly cant eat them instead.

[seafood luver]

I submit (if I may) that capitalism may be the only realistic solution to this argument.

It's up to the consumer on both the wholesale and retail levels to make educated and responsible purchasing decisions.

If a consumer on the retail level purchases poorly collected animals from a retailer, they will soon look for another source (or quit the hobby).

If a retail pet store is selling poorly collected specimens from a wholesaler/importer, then his/her customers will stop buying specimens from him/her. That will lead to the retail outlet (either on-line or bricks & mortar) to find a different supplier (or go out of business)

When the Importer/Wholesaler realises that his sales are dropping due to selling poor quality animals, he will then find a different exporter/collector (or go out of business)

Soon after, there will be no (or low) demand for the specimens collected by un-ethical methods.

But I see no hope for this to completely solve this problem. There will always be a demand for CHEAP fish and inverts from inexperienced hobyists, newer importers/dealers, and discount websites and wholesalers wanting to make a fast buck.

As long as consumers demand inexpensive fish and inverts there will be a place for the "bad guys". They, after all, fill a need in the market.

The hobby is not the sole reason for the destruction of the reefs, there are many other reasons and the aquarium hobby is a minute almost non-noticeable percentage of the cause. It's just the easiest one to corner and blame.

Once again, I think it's going to be up to the consumer to effect this problem on a large scale. After all, how many times will they waste money on specimens that are just going to die? Ultimately they will learn their lessons and begin to pay more for ethically collected and healthier specimens.

[cortez marine]

Once again, I think it's going to be up to the consumer to effect this problem on a large scale.
ALWAYS HAS BEEN

After all, how many times will they waste money on specimens that are just going to die?
FOREVER...AS ALWAYS HAS BEEN

Ultimately they will learn their lessons and begin to pay more for ethically collected and healthier specimens.
NEVER HAVE....NEVER WILL.
The consumer side will never assist the resolution of this thing as it would mean going against everything they truly want;
Cheap...variety...ASAP!
After those mandates...environmental stuff has never had a chance and never affected the market enough to change its direction.
Retailers know full well that the mass market is actually going the opposite way. The evolution of the big box chain pet shops has dumbed down the hobby and the eco-politics of it as they are berift of any clue as they head into the enjoyment of cheap, temporary color for their living rooms.
Steve
PS.
Oh, it can be solved...and has been in many communities in the Philippines and Bali. Thats the battlefront and it will go forth without the US consumer playing much of a role.
It is exactly the callousness and the insensitivity of the Western Consumer that has convinced key foreigners that they are alone in this fight and it must be for local good and local reasons that they carry it.
The caring consumers...including you guys should not overestimate your tiny numbers.

[jolt26]

"The pressure to get more fish from the reefs is likely influenced and dictated by the prevailing cheap price of aquarium fish in the local market.. some examples

A collector gets 12 pesos ( U.S$ 0,30) for a Coral Beauty
A collector gets 10 pesos ( U.S$ 0,26) for a Naso Tang

The exporter price for a Coral Beauty is US$3.00
The exporter price for a Naso Tang is US$$2.50

Shipping cost for a Coral Beauty is around US$5
Shipping cost for a Naso Tang is around US$9
These shipping cost are from Manila to Toronto or Montreal

The retail price of a Coral Beauty in Ottawa is close to US$35 and US$53 for a Naso Tang"

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/j_baquero_022199.html

This is from Sir Jaime Baquero. Yes, cheap, variety, ASAP! Things you can only get here in the Phils.

"The caring consumers...including you guys should not overestimate your tiny numbers."

almost a million cosumers in the US alone? that is not TINY. millions of fishes are collected from our reefs yearly.

"The hobby is not the sole reason for the destruction of the reefs, there are many other reasons and the aquarium hobby is a minute almost non-noticeable percentage of the cause. It's just the easiest one to corner and blame."

Yes, not the SOLE. But it IS a reason.

"As the world’s largest importer of coral reef organisms, the United States has a major responsibility to promote nondestructive, sustainable harvesting practices."

www.nmfs.noaa.gov/habitat/ead/Readi...reefspecies.pdf

[cortez marine]

The CARING consumers...including you guys should not overestimate your tiny numbers.
I said the CARING consumers numbers were tiny!
This is a very old fight....25 years or so actually and consumers have never cared enough to effect changes in their retailers buying patterns.
Steve

[jolt26]

if that is the case, and the government is not doing anything, the NGOs are ineffective, then I guess we're doomed then.

[cortez marine]

Oh, it can be solved...and has been in many communities in the Philippines and Bali. Thats the battlefront and it will go forth without the US consumer playing much of a role.
It is exactly the callousness and the insensitivity of the Western Consumer that has convinced key foreigners that they are alone in this fight and it must be for local good and local reasons that they carry it.
New NGOs are whats needed, thats al.
Steve

[jolt26]

Thanks. NGOs that will solve the problem, and not just go after freakin' grant funds. Maybe I can start one...

[dizzy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6424779#post6424779 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jolt26
This is from Sir Jaime Baquero. Yes, cheap, variety, ASAP! Things you can only get here in the Phils.

"The caring consumers...including you guys should not overestimate your tiny numbers."

almost a million cosumers in the US alone? that is not TINY. millions of fishes are collected from our reefs yearly.

www.nmfs.noaa.gov/habitat/ead/Readi...reefspecies.pdf [/B]

I find it interesting that the million consumers in the US figure was used back in 1999. A recent survey 2005 by the American Pet Product Manufacturing Association (APPMA) found there are currently 800,000 households keeping marine fish. Borneman's recent article Coralmania claims the industry has grow 30% a year since 1999. I'm confused. :confused:

[jolt26]

surveys have "margin of errors." given two conflicting surveys, i'd go for the median, which is 900,000. still very huge, right? being an LFS owner, you think this is true, profit-wise?

[dizzy]

If you divide 900,000.00 by 3,000 estimated number of stores that sell marine, that equals an average of 300 customers each. I guess it depends on how many of your 300 are doing much stocking. In smaller towns like ours that 300 customer figure is a reach. I think the 800,000 may be pretty close. It is a sizable market, but discount internet and garage operations have driven profit margins quite low, considering overhead and loses. There is also the big box factor. I can assure you it ain't the goldmine for most, that some would lead you to believe. Others may be doing quite well. For me it's kind of hard to want to sell as much as I possibly can considering all the truth I know.
Mitch

[fishermike]

How can the consumer tell the difference between ethically caught fish and those that are done so unethically? I have several tank raised fish in my aquarium but I also have two fish that were not. I, as a consumer, have absolutley no way of knowing how those two fish were collected. I can only rely on my LFS owner to purchase from ethical wholesalers but how does he REALLY know how they were collected? I feel that it is the local governments responsibility to control collection practices otherwise, no one really knows what methods were used.

[knowse]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6424896#post6424896 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cortez marine
The CARING consumers...including you guys should not overestimate your tiny numbers.
I said the CARING consumers numbers were tiny!
This is a very old fight....25 years or so actually and consumers have never cared enough to effect changes in their retailers buying patterns.
Steve

Amen to that Steve,
I see it over and over. NOONE wants to pay for ethicly caught fish. They want cheap fish.

What's that old saying, "You get what you pay for.":rolleyes: and since everyone wants cheap well... you get dieing fish.

I prefer this one, "Say what mean and Mean what you say!" There's a mantra for the NGO's. We'll never llive to see the day, tho.

[AJ31655]

What people on here say about the average US fish buyer is true. They could careless about quality. If it's cheap, well then they can buy 3 or 4 until one lives, if it expensive, then it's just not worth the risk. And as for the NGOs, changind things in the US would take an NGO far bigger than our hobby could muster, the reason for this is simple, even if they advertise in all of the aquarium related magazines, stating what needs to be done and why, I would bet that MAYBE 5 of our stores customers would see it and of them I would be surprised if one even cared. Without GOVERMENTS on both sides of the Pacific working together to do something I don't see anything changing. Granted I live in a somewhat redneck little college town so it might not be the best group of people the draw a conclusion from, but thats what I see. And to be honest, the whole working at a LFS store thing has somewhat turned me against the hobby as a whole. I don't think you could get private comanies to all boycott certain countries that import fish, but you might convince The Hawiian Rep., ED Case to do something like it. He wants to make wild caught fish illegal until the go through species by species and make them legal again. While I don't agree with that, I might like to see certain countries banned possibly.

[AJ31655]

double post.

[cortez marine]

Or...existing groups with new leadership.
The MAC organization has squandered as much money as goodwill on this thing while reefs continued to decline.
Like any group, its only as good as its members and especially its leadership.
A new coach [director] is sorely needed like any football team that never wins.
Steve

[jaime baquero]

In the case of the Philippines and Indonesia there are enough proofs to conclude that the central governments are not willing neither committed to tackle the problems related to the collection of marine ornamentals. This trade is responsible "in part" for coral reef deterioration in those countries. Without leadership from the central governments nothing is going to happen, the problem is going to get worse and radical groups are going to act to fix the problem the hard way.

We have seen how issolated efforts from NGOs in the last two decades haven't been effective. The transfert of technology has been made, hundreds of collectors have been trained to use nets instead of cyanide. However, the solution is more complex than simply net training.

It is an environmental problem that requires a social and economic approach.... is here where the leadership from central governments is a must.

Central governments must protect their natural resources by regulating and enforcing laws.. It is not NGOs responsibility, NGOs are there just to help.

Jaime

[cortez marine]

So...if hundreds of collectors have been trained to use nets instead of cyanide....then the coral killing is less.

If all of them were trained well, then still less coral would be killed and the emergency diminishes.
Then...one could seek social justice and economic improvements without being tethered to the coral killing issues as is the case today.
However...it is the cyanide issue that gives the alarm and the PR punch that raises the cash for these groups to squander.
They fail the training issues and move on to others they are more comfortable with.
The idea of waiting for central governments to move appropriately on any serious issues is the same as giving up.
If you've given up...then whats the point?
Steve
This can be solved by honest commercial trainings partnered with honest NGOs.
Integrity and sincerity has always been the crux of the issue.
The faking of reform while obsessing over grant money, turf and power has ruined the real potential set in motion years ago by more honest players.
Lead, follow or get out of the way.
Steve

[jaime baquero]

I have not doubts that hundreds of collectors were well trained. As I have said before, and in many occasions, you did a good job while in the Ph (many years ago). Filipino collectors are the best in the world, they have been training collectors not only in the Philippines but also in other developing countries. However, the industry in the Philippines has not recompensed their willingness and commitment to use environmentally friendly methods when collecting fish. Fish collectors in the Philippines have been sending clear signs to the industry, but this industry has not reacted.

To the lack of willingness and commitment of the central governments in Ph and In, we have to add the lack of willingness and commitment of the industry itself. The demand from hobbyists and retailers has been the same, they're looking for cheap fish. the Ph and Ind are supplying the industry with at least 65%-70% of those cheap fish. Issues as fish quality and collection methods haven't been a priority, neither has been a priority the wellbeing of poor fish collectors, meanwhile the coral reefs are being overexploited by collectors who have to collect as many fish as possible to satisfy their families needs. They do have to travel farther away from their homes looking for new grounds where they could find fish. They go away from their families for extended periods of time, this, has negative consequences on the social structure of the communities.

Economic incentives to collectors by the industry along with small scale social programs implemented by the central goverments in the Ph and In are essential to solve this environmental problem.

Without willingness and commitment from both sides(industry and central governments) the status quo will prevail with serious consequences for the coral reefs.


I have had the opportunity to work with the different levels of the trade from the collector to the aquarium hobbyists in North America, more specifically in Canada. I was involved during many years working with a Canadian NGO helping to find solutions to the cyanide problem in the Philippines. I have not been in Indonesia, but according to people that have been there and know the situation in both countries, they have stated that the cyanide problem, handling and holding in Indonesia are worse.

Since the early 80's issues as collection, handling and holding as well as unsuitability of some species has been denounced... but the industry has done "almost" nothing. We are still talking about cyanide use which is being used not only in the Ph and In but also in other developing countries where regulation and law enforcement do not exist. We also know that very little has been done to tackle handling, holding at community level (majority of collection communities), and we see that the industry is offering to hobbyists fish that do not survive in captivity.

More than 25 years hopping that things are going to change. Many conferences, speakers, and "experts" talking about issues related to the industry and its impact on coral reefs... but little change.

In the Philippines fish collectors are poorer than they were 25 years ago and coral reefs are in worse shape than then. Fishing grounds have been overexploited and some species are not found were once abundant.

Personally, I do not think that the status quo is an option. I'd rather to see something radical happening in the Philippines and Indonesia.

[cortez marine]

See new thread on MAC losing favor with dealers...

[bookfish]

As 1 of only 4 exporters of marine fish from Tonga I feel that I should wade in. All Tongan fish are net-caught and my company has even brought in experts to train our divers in non-destructive catching techniques. All the fish Bolt mentioned as available only from the Phillipines are available here and although we pay our divers on salary, the export price is the same or less. I have had many conversations with wholesalers who far prefer our fish to PI fish due to the survivability factor. This is ensured by attention to the livestock from the time of catching, decompression, holding systems, feeding (yes, we do!), packing and shipping. Particuliarly in Europe, Phillipine fish are gaining a very poor reputation for survivability, and given the export price and high freight cost to Europe, many have stopped buying from the Phillipines.
The market we can't compete against however is the massive sales of cheap damsels from the Phillipines to the US. But, we don't care and simply offer higher quality fish to those that care to buy them. Also, the 5 export permit holders here (one does inverts only) have formed an association to help each other and assist the Govt. in forming laws and regulations for our industry. While it's not a regulatory agency or a replacement for one, it does keep the global reputation for Tongan products high just by peer pressure. As far as how to help the Phillipines, I'm not sure, but I know they continue to lose market share, maybe not in the US, but elsewhere.
One difference is that the Govt. here seems to take their responsibility to provide protection for marine resources fairly seriously and that could be the key difference.
More of my insane ramblings on the subject are here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/CAHomepage.htm
Thx-Jim

[jaime baquero]

bookfish,

Thanks for sharing your business experience. I am glad to know that you guys are doing things right and as consequence mortality rates are low. Seems that fishefolks in Tonga get a better benefit form the trade than the folks in Ph.

Almost nothing is positive from this trade in the Philippines. It is a real mess, fish collectors are poorer, fish populations are depleted, coral reefs have been damage because the use of cyanide, mortality rates of collected fish are high and as consequence more pressure is put on coral reefs to collect more and more fish.

No doubt the willingness and commitment of Tonga's government is capital to protect and manage the coral reefs.

I agree, exporters in the Philippines are lossing market share, meaning that collectors are getting less for their fish and have to collect more and more to satisfy their basic needs. This has serious consequences on the coral reefs and fish populations.

The industry in North America and everywhere else "should" have the moral responsibility to stop this non sense.

Best regards

Jaime

[cortez marine]

Jim wrote;
"All Tongan fish are net-caught and my company has even brought in experts to train our divers in non-destructive catching techniques."

Why thanks for the mention Jim.
Working with the guys there was great and both Tongan divers and Filipino imports sure can put together a ton of fish in a hurry with only nets.
My only residual concern is that they ;
1] Continue to disdain the use of crowbars [ a long and nasty habit ] to collect fish with, especially flame hawks...
2] continue to decompress the fishes, especially pictilis anthias, starkii damsels and genicanthus angels.

If they are supported and followed up on ...these guys are the best!
It was joy to work with them and I hope the lessons stick!
Sincerely, Steve