Petco Inhumanity

[backlash]

Thought I'd post a copy of the email I just sent to petco.



"Hello,My name is Brent ----------.I am contacting you concerning the conditions which certain species are kept in your stores.I am fairly new to the saltwater/reef aquarium hobby,but I have done enough research to know the do's and don'ts of fishkeeping.
I am appalled at what I saw in your --------------- location.They had recieved a new shipment of marine fish, and they were packed in tiny holding tanks like cattle at a slaughter house.Certain species can't survive this kind of abuse.Tangs, in particular are very intolerent of such treatment. I saw about 25 tangs in one very small holding tank. I felt pity for them, as they were literally killing one another in such tight confines.Tangs, or sugeonfish, are also mainly herbivores, and they were all emaciated from lack of food.I know that it was a new shipment of fish that they just received, however you are also responsible for knowing where these fish come from, how they are caught, how they are kept and how they are handled.Out of my desire to try to "save" some of these fish, I purchased 3 tangs to bring home to my established reef aquarium.The "associate" employee who came to "assist me with my purchase" is very unqualified to handle any saltwater fish.She promptly got a small net, and began thrashing about in the aquarium, trying to catch the fish,and in the process obviously injured several fish. After about 10 minutes of doing this, I asked if I could assist her ( and try to catch the animals in a way that would be humane and not stressful.)She responded that she could get in trouble if she let me help.I immediately began to regret my decision to buy these fish, as I realized that I was supporting the capture and harsh treatment of more fish to replace the ones that I "rescued".
I'm happy to say that 2 of the 3 are making a recovery and appear to be very happy.However one specimen- a small Naso Tang-did not recover from the harsh treatment.
I would like to ask that you please be more conscious of what you are doing to these beautiful creatures. The keeping of these wild caught animals is not easy,and is not to be taken lightly.You, as a corporation are of course concerned about the bottom line- making a dollar.But there is a responsibility that we all have to make sure that we do all we can to be humane to these animals and make sure that they live long,healthy,happy lives in captivity.
If you wish to continue selling marine fish, you should at the very least, make sure the animals are handled and cared for PROPERLY while at and before they get to your store; educate your employees and handlers about these animals and how to do their job in a proper manner, i.e. keeping fish in seperate tanks, handling,and feeding them. Better still, replace the small holding tanks with larger tanks so the fish won't be so stressed while at your store, and educate the consumer before considering a purchase.Or pehaps you should reconsider your venture into the marine livestock business.
Untill some steps are taken to remedy the situation, I will not step foot back in your facility. Whats more I will make everyone else I know and some I don't know aware of the problems I have seen.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Brent ----------"

[snowridr]

If you really want to get some where with this, send it to specific people such as CEO, COO, Regional/District Manager etc. Cant say if anything will really change, but you will at least get a bit more attention.

[soulja221]

has anyone ever contacted peta?

[jallard]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6416794#post6416794 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by soulja221
has anyone ever contacted peta?

Peta are you kidding..........Peta dosen't approve of any captive fish or animals for that matter. What would that do to help?

[backlash]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6416732#post6416732 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snowridr
If you really want to get some where with this, send it to specific people such as CEO, COO, Regional/District Manager etc. Cant say if anything will really change, but you will at least get a bit more attention.
Give me a link or an adress and I'll send it. They don't exactly list a complaint dept. on their web site.
You know, if they kept their puppies and birds in the same conditions, someone would be in jail.

[snowridr]

your best bet for finding that info is check out their investor relations area of their website. the top people will be mentioned there, as far as regional/district managers, call the store and say you want to send a email or card the bosses boss ( you could lie and say for something great if you think that will help - other wise they may try blocking your access to them)

[MAreefer1]

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>






snowridr

[Blown 346]

Good luck with trying to change them. They dont care about what they carry except for the money they bring in like stated. They will probably just throw the letter away and not give a car in the world.

[JENnKerry]

Brent, that was a great letter. I really hope it goes somewhere. But I have one word for you........corporation. They really don't care about anything except making money. It's the mom and pop LFS' that care......the small time ones. I know exactly how you feel. The only thing we can do is not shop there.

Last week my wife and I went into one because one of her students gave her a $20 gift card for PetCo for Christmas. We bought a few small toys for one of our birds. Of course, we walked over to the saltwater tanks just to look and were absolutely horrified. I won't go into detail but I will say that I had to leave immediately.

Good luck with your letter. I really hope it does go somewhere.


Kerry

[George_Marine]

I´m so glad there´s people out there like you, that take a second to think on all the bad stuff we can be causing to ecosystems and organisms by buying to these type of stores. I´m sure that what your doing is worth it since many of us will be more careful in where we buy ous fishes and other organisms.

Every time someone asked me where I buy my fishes, I always send them to responsible LFS (Not many by the way) this way the other LFS won´t sell much until they understand what a hobbyist expects regarding to organisms health.

:eek1:

[mcox33]

You might also point out the fact that with proper care, their profits would go up due to less loss due to dead fish. They pay wholesale for every fish, coral whatever that arrives. If they had less loss due to proper care then the bottom line would still be bigger at the end of the accounting cycle. Not to mention they would then have quality livestock which would bring in even more customers as we reefers usually tell our friends, neighbors or anyone else we meet that the store or that store has quality livestock, just as we pass the word on which stores do not have quality livestock.

JM .02 worth

[Gabi480]

they do not care I used to work for them, all they care about keeping low staff with low hours and crapping on there employes. Don't even bother trying to send that letter unless you know some coprate d**k that has a way to go behind some's back to move up there coprate latter. Coprate wh***s that could give 3 poops about animals.
Gabi

[electrokate]

I think it's admirable that you want to save some of these fish but for every one they sell they will order several more (since they kill several for each one they sell). The one here is atrocious, brooklynella is literally dissolving the fish on one rack and the other is packed with ich and fungus covered tangs, cowfish, wrasses, angels, eels, lions etc. All but 2 clowns are dead, and they are shredded and laying on the bottom. It's horrible. Buying the fish is a bad bad thing because it encourages them and all they care about is the sale, you won't get your money back after the associate scrapes all the scales off one side of the fish trying to net it... they don't know squat about fish for the most part and a friend with decades of fish experience went to work there for christmas, they put him in charge of tearing up boxes and cleaning in the back room because they don't want real aquarists on the floor-they would refuse to sell the fish. Telling a customer not to mix hostile species or overcrowd a tank is called "downselling" and grounds for termination, thus our local store sold a lady a queen angel for her 10 gallon freshwater tank, another lady bought 100 fish for her 10 and a guy bought an anemone, 2 clowns, a naso and mandarin for his 10. They don't care, they are not allowed to put qualified people on the floor because those people wouldn't make such high dollar sales.
Best bet is to stay out of there, or bring a friend who can restrain your impulse to rescue. I know several people steal them too, they stick the fish in their pockets and buy something small so they can be seen checking out. I have no comment on that... (: If you bring a friend you can do what I do. Loudly proclaim "WOW, WOULD YOU LOOK AT THOSE SICK FISH!!! You can't cure THAT with ANYTHING and it will wipe out your WHOLE TANK!" Repeat for as long as you can stand it.
I usually get driven out by nemo screechers, the little kids who scream GIVE ME NEMO!!! to their parents at ear splitting sanity destroying tones. This from someone who keeps a parrot and enjoys being in front of the speakers at punk shows.
They usually start crying when they see nemo there.
Kate

[sundance1]

PETA is a JOKE! If it were up to them we would have NO pet stores and NO aquariums.Just commit yourself to NEVER set foot in that store again and try to convince others to do the same.

[::PixelFish::]

If you go to www.petcocruelty.com you will find links where you can e-mail your letter to.

Believe it or not but you will recieve a reply back from Petco. I did this and got involved in a long back and forth e-mail 'relationship' with a Petco regional manager and he even called me at home to talk about my concerns.

He visited the store and they were going to make changes and he offered me a Petco gift certificate which I refused because I'm more concerned about animal welfare than what I can get from them.

I don't shop at Petco because they have horrible animal husbandry but I had to go in there once when my tank burst a seam and Petsmart didn't have the size tank that I needed. This was after they had made changes at the Petco but when I had quick look at the saltwaterfish dept, they had dead fish and sick fish floating in the tanks. Same old same old.

[electrokate]

Yeah, I have raised a ruckus via email a couple times with petco and petsmart and in the cases where I checked they did immediately improve a few things... temporarily. Petsmart is NO BETTER though. If you love birds you won't love them. They also sell fish that get to be 15 inches long for 10 gallon tanks. Both stores should be prohibited from selling any livestock.
I think if PETA really wanted to get things done they would buy all the stock in such companies they can get til they have a majority and then vote to eliminate livestock. Nothing gets mountains moved like being in the boardroom.
But yeah Peta doesn't give a rip about fish, especially freshwater. A lot of them call themselves vegetarian while eating fish.
I commend you for turning down the gift certificate! Sometimes I buy birdseed there just because I can't get it elsewhere without a 30 minute drive. Small towns suck. I have a monday night meeting next door to Petco, if in the mood I go in and educate their customers (: But I have to also admit I haven't seen any horror in there I haven't seen at most independent stores. One box store in Portland OR had desicated iguana corpses (plural) on display as for sale, the staff didn't even notice the places where the flesh had rotted off or the odd poses they assumed when they fell. But there was an independent store in Portland that had dead birds all over the place, rotting. The latter got shut down, the former got a remodel and expansion.
Kate

[TimBob]

Petco by me recently started carrying corals too. They have leathers, Zoas and Mushrooms on chunks of live rock. They toss these rocks into the fish tanks with normal output flourescent and none of them look good at all.

Their marine fish are always in bad shape and the corals in the tanks look equally as bad.

Unfortunately, by "saving" their fish and corals you increase their sales numbers which makes them order more fish/corals to kill. When I am in Petco (which isn't very often) I just look in the tanks and walk away shaking my head at the poor guys that I know will end up dead most likely.

Worst I saw was a 4-5" Naso tang swimming frantically back and forth in a 10 gallon tank. Sad.

[MAreefer1]

"rescuing" the fish does not help at all...its just making space for them to cram a few more pruple tangs or clown fish into a puney 10 gallon:(

[Gwoardnog]

Honestly, can a Petco sucks thread get stickied so there isn't a new Petco sucks thread every 2 hours?

[electrokate]

I think a sticky petco thread is a great idea! Except we might be sued... (:
Kate

[Gwoardnog]

Stupid courts.

lol

[ERICinFL]

I think if enough people wrote letters, change might happen... slowly, but it might (and that's a big might). Strong work on the letter backlash, I'm in the process of composing my own. :) I try to detour my friends from shopping at the local "KillCo" because of their treatment of both fish and reptiles. It's sad that big business doesn't take an interest in actually caring for their livestock.

[Ploppers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6506054#post6506054 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sundance1
PETA is a JOKE! If it were up to them we would have NO pet stores and NO aquariums.Just commit yourself to NEVER set foot in that store again and try to convince others to do the same.

I agree PETA is a complete joke. I went to the Vans Warped Tour and PETA had a little booth set up. They were giving some propaganda filled DVDs to any kid that would sign some petition. They weren't even telling the kids what they were signing it for. It was just "sign here and get your FREE DVD." That's one way to make it look like people are on PETA's side. :rolleyes: I thought it was kinda funny they were there seeing that Vans was the main sponser. Vans maker of LEATHER shoes. :rollface:

[rocketman2005]

i agree with Sundance1 never go in the store and try to stop everyone buying saltwater from going in there also, they can't loose money forever before they'll quit

[Pandora]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6521630#post6521630 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAreefer1
"rescuing" the fish does not help at all...its just making space for them to cram a few more pruple tangs or clown fish into a puney 10 gallon:(

Not only space, but you are also contributing to their bottom dollar... and $$$ profits are all these companies will really listen to. I cynically do believe that companies and stores such as these will never go out of business. There will always be uneducated impulse buying consumers who come in looking for Nemo or something to match their curtains. But anyone who's devoted enough to stick with it and start to learn even a little bit about this hobby wouldn't go back to stores like that. Sadly, we're not a very large part of the population, there are a LOT more impulse buyers out there.

That being said, I personally don't go to Petco anymore, even for their dried goods or cat supplies, mostly because I find the other sections disturbing.

[maloga3]

Keep up with the good fight!!!

-We've all got to be aware of marine life rights- its our responsibility as keepers of these beautiful creatures

[Travis L. Stevens]

People were mentioning PETA..Forget PETA...they won't do anything for the responsible hobbyist except destroy the hobby. Try contacting the ASPCA and the Better Business Bureau. Sure it's not much of a complaint to them because they do offer you everything (responsibly or not) and give it to you, but their quality of stock is sub par and in need of a new business outlook.

[tkeracer619]

The petco in my area isn't nearly as bad as the experiances you have stated. I have yet to see a dead or sick marine fish. They dont really overstock the small tanks compared to what i have seen in the local petsmart. Some people here feal the same way about the local petco as the rest but im not biased.

Every creature should have a chance to live and regardless of not buying the fish because they buy 3 more, they are going to buy 3 more anyways. If 3 die 3 die, if one sells then they made a few bucks and you saved a life. This is how corporations generally operate and it sucks but its reality. Send letters of concern they help.

That said I am new to the hobby and am starting my first marine tank, i'm picky so most of my fish will come from a lfs but if I come accross a 40 dollar fish for 5 bucks and there not sick i'm probably going to get one or two.

No reason to flame just an opinion

[Pandora]

I don't think the ASPCA is going to be much help either. I used to volunteer for them, and they do next to nothing with fish; they don't even have facilities for most herps.

[Agnes]

I have to agree about Petco. I also wrote (emailed) them some time ago when I first got into the saltwater hobby. They got a new store manager and all but 2 people quit. I wrote them that they were going to lose their customers if it continued. Well, I'm happy to say they moved that manager. But I'm sad to say the guy HE hired is the new manager.
I guess the up side of all of this is they no longer even have their salt water tanks! And the fresh water fish are always sick, about 17 out of 20+ tanks are always quarantined. Guess where people are going for fresh water fish now....Wal Mart! Boy, things just keep getting better. Actually the Wal Mart tanks "look" good but the prices are sure high for them.
All of this has been really good for the one LFS in town. They are getting most all of the business.

[speckled trout]

Don't contact "peta". They are completely against pet "ownership". They do not believe that anyone should be in the possession of any type of animal or living organism. It's against their doctrine. That's why I get a kick out of it whenever a "celebrity" acknowledges "peta" and how much they love the organization. What a joke!

[SerranidTerror]

I guess I'll jump in here because I'm a manager for a Petco (hopefully for not too much longer) One thing I have to say is training for the "aquatics" department is terrible. I read through the handbooks, which there are 6. Only one has actual useful information- the others focus on customer relations and so forth.

My saltwater department is definitely not perfect but I like to think of it as better than most petcos. I spend a lot of time back there with my fish- especially since I have kept some for a month or two before they find a home. But if I didnt work there I really don't know what would happen there. I stress and stress the importance of all the work THAT MUST be done back there on a weekly basis. I even lead a night crew weekly to put out the bulk of the stock in hopes that they will focus on animal care.

In my store the problem lies in the fact that all the girls like the cute fuzzy animals and they stick to taking care of them. The guys are forced to mainly work stock or similar work, which leaves me alone in the department. After months of complaining they hired me a pupil that would hopefully help in bettering the lives of the fish. He's moving along great but unless I am the manager on duty he is forced to do other work despite him telling whoever is on duty that I left him maintenance tasks.

And I too think my company does not care for fish. Here's what I don't understand. If my, say, district manager pays me a visit. She will go around and inspect all the departments and grade our animal care. If she walks to the reptiles department and the leopard geckos have no meal worms I lose points (despite that those worms crawl out of the dish or the geckos will eat loads of those on a daily basis anyway.) But if she walks by a saltwater tank and I have a tank with some skinny tangs in them shes not going to take points away for that and them having no Nori seaweed available, no shes going to say oh my gosh you have salt creep on the corners of the tank. Its just not fair.

I try my best to do what I can for my fish. I only work so much per week and most of my time is spent explaining to people why you can't keep 10 goldfish in a bowl or calming down customers who are ****ed because all 20 fish in their 10 gallon tank died. I'm not defending my company by any means...as I agree they "want" top notch animal care while constantly cutting our hours all the time demanding better customer care as well and focusing on how much money we make. The only thing they give me to feed for the fish is crappy wardley flakes. I've ordered some other frozen foods for them but they never come in so I just pull what little frozen food we have off the shelf and use that.

As far as complaints they do get heard. I do see the complaints pop up in my e-mail at the store. The problem can sometimes lie in that the management may just not care, which seems to happen a lot at the "Killco" (I prefer where the pets go...to die) thats a few miles from us. So that may be one problem you may run into.

Theres a few other problems as well. Sometimes corporate will tack on extra fish onto your order which ****es me the hell off. Actually I would say a good bulk of my saltwaer deaths occur from these "extra" fish because they send waaaay too many or they are fish that I just can't take care of...or some that they get "price breaks" on but the fish come shipped in so terrible there's really nothing I could do for them except maybe put them in a nice Tricaine Methanesulfonate bath to put them out of their miseary. I've told my regional manager a couple times to back off with these orders as I know what I'm doing. I told him not only am I familiar with the fish and have a BS in marine bio, but I'm very in touch with my customers and I know what sells even down to what fish we are dirt cheap on and undercut our competitors on.

I wouldn't mind discussing/complaining with you guys some more if you want me to. And for those of you wondering why I still work there...it's a long story and I'm hoping some of my interviews work out
:D

[frags4u]

This is not the first time PETCO and Petmart has gotten this BS. The reason my petstore can not have dogs is the cost for the dang licencse. They got in trouble for not taken care of dogs and goverment raised dog licensce and now a one man store like me can not have dogs since licensce is so nuts they raised it almost 250 percent and I can not afford it anymore. DOWN WITH CHAIN STORES AND THEIR BS and I thought this before I got my store now I really do

[jawaiianmon]

petco and petsmart really blow. Thanks for giving them some feedback. My feedback is not going there.

[chocolateblnt]

Wow I love to read about people who HATE Petco! I went to my local Petco in Sunnyvale recently to purchase my sump tank and of course went by the saltwater section out of curiosity. Horrible things I saw ... I could talk hours about what was wrong ... but it's redundant because they will never acknowledge our knowledge and respect for saltwater animals.

Props to SerranidTerror for the extra effort and care at the Petco you work at... the SW gods will reward you :D