nitrate

[zzman]

120 gal tank, 150 lbs live sand, 150 lbs live rock, skimmer working well - tank has been running approx. 1 1/2 years.

Lately I have had a problem keeping mt calcium level up - (240)
I have noticed my limited amount of corals are looking a little weak. (mushroom corals look good)

My nitrate 3 level has slowly rose to 40 ppm.

Only 3 small fish ( 2 tangs ans a sand sifter) in tank.
brown alge growing on glass

Any idea how to counter act this nitrate 3 problem ?

Alk - 3.0
S.G - 1.023
Am - 0
PH - 8.0

(10 gal sump)

Thanks in advance - RZ

[BlueCorn]

[moved]

[Dubbin1]

Have you been keeping up on your water changes and do you have a refug?

[Paintbug]

what type of filtration are you using?

[zzman]

I Have a carbon canister filter but was advised when I bought the set up that with the large amount of live sand and live rock, I didn't even need a filter

I change 6 gal. a week and have never missed a water change in almost two years.

I use only r/o water and have an inline light (kills bacteria etc)

Thanks for the reply - RZ

I also was told I need no type of oxygen (bubble line etc) in the tank because of the sump.

[IslandCrow]

Overfeeding, perhaps? What and how often do you feed your fish? Do you notice whether or not they eat everything you feed them? Also, what kind of a cleaning crew do you have in there (hermit crabs, snails, shrimp, etc. . .)?

[Dubbin1]

I would step up the water changes to 10% weekly to help get them down. What kind of sump do you have? Is it a wet/dry? If so then right there is your problem.

[zzman]

I have (i believe) a wet sump - the water constantly flows from the tank down into the sump (over bio media) and then is pumped back up into the tank.

I have always fed frozen foods, such as shrimp etc. I may be over feeding - that is very possible.

The fish (only 3) are always eager to eat and do eat when I add the food.

The have hermit crabs and snails in the tank

Thanks again for the time - RZ

[Dubbin1]

The bio media is where the problem is. Remove it and keep up on your water changes.

[Paintbug]

i think we found the problem. bio media is known to cause nitrates. the bactria that breaks down the nitrites to nitrates cant break down the nitrates to nitrogen gas. i would recommend slowly removing the bio media. maybe 2-3 cupfuls a week. any sponges need to be cleaned weekly at a min. on my wet/dry there is nothing left in it. no bio-balls,sponges, nothing but the filter pad. thats just to catch larger junk from the water. that has made my system quite loud however. if that would be a problem you may want to try other ways of lowering the nitrates. dont just try pulling everything out at once!

do you have a skimmer?? a good skimmer will help with lowering the nitrates as well.

wet/drys are great for a FOWLR or FO setup, however they are nitrate machines, in a reef where most corals are real sensitive to nitrates, they are not good. im planning on settup up a refugium soon myself. they are the way to go with a reef IMO. fuges are a great way to export excess nutrients from the water.

with the calcium problem what are you using to raise it? have you check the magnesium level?

[zzman]

I do appreciate all this help - I have read a little in the past about removing the bio balls and replaceing with vegetation. Being fairly new to all this I was worried about changing what the fish store set up.

I have never checked for mag and don't have test equipment for that - I will have to get on that.

I add calcium by Kalkwater (drip), I let it get to low and now I add almost around the clock but the levels have been very slow to increase.

I have lost some corals and don't want this to continue.


- RZ

[Paintbug]

i would definately check the mag levels! however i dont think the calcium is low enough to cause the corals to die. its probablly more from the nitrates.

[Fast Fred]

X-nay in the bio-media. Up your water changes to 10%-15% per week. Keep us posted.

[rjwilson37]

Over time your bio-media becomes a nitrate factory in a saltwater setup and being the tank is a year and a half old that sounds like what is happening. Removing the bio-media and maybe get some LR and Macro algae in there to help in reducing nitrates rather than the bio-media producing nitrates.

[badpacket]

snip

[zzman]

01-13-2005

I did another partial water change and added some new bacteria to see if that helps out - little by little I will remove the bio balls from the sump.
Thanks to all for the help - RZ

[WaterKeeper]

Good moves on your part. Short of feeding your fish Tums, I'd look over Solving Calcium Problems (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm). You also might consider adding some fresh LS to you bed. Just enough to seed it with some of the sand organisms that may have departed over time.

[dastratt]

I'm wondering what the phospates test at. Do you know what your phosphates are at?
This is why I ask:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm

[Myrphie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6491904#post6491904 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zzman
added some new bacteria to see if that helps out

I'm guessing by "new bacteria" you mean a product like Cycle or something along those lines? While the usefulness of such products is debatable, the fact is that the only bacteria which will actually metabolize nitrate are anaerobic bacteria. Without an anaerobic environment for them to grow (typically a deep sand bed) your options for reducing your nitrate are pretty much water changes and vegetation.

Hope this helps...

[PatMayo]

I don't think I would bother with the "new bacteria", I don't think that is the issue. But I do agree with waterkeeper that you may need to renew the critters in your sand bed. Get rid of the bio balls as most have stated and personally I would change 15 to 20 gallons of water each week for a while.

You may want to spend some time in the chemistry forum to learn more about the ALK CAlk dosing methods and problem solving.

Regards,

Pat

[zzman]

I have printed out and will read the articles provided to me regarding the phosphates and calcium problems. I may have caused all of this, about 2 months ago I had an outbreak of ick. I tried to remove the fish (at that time 5 fish in tank) but could not catch them due to the large amount of live rock. I medicated the tank with knock-ick. I'm not sure if this resulted in problems I can't see like bacteria in the sand and live rock dieing. Anyway, the Ick is gone and now I am trying to correct any water problems that I have.

I do not have a phosphate tests but will get some. I have brown algae that grows on the tank glass (not alot) and do not seem to have near the algae growth i did when the tank was new.

I will contiune with the water changes until I figue out whats going on - My corals ( mushrooms) look great, but always have. The others open and close each day, so I don't know if this is causing them a problem or not.

Thanks again -
If I were this bad at my job, I would not have one !

[PatMayo]

Here is another great article that will prevent huge problems in the future.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

Regards,

Pat