View Full Version : can i still have stray voltage?
i lost 3 tangs in past 3 years due to LLD, which can be caused by stray voltage. i have a ground probe in tank which plugs into outlet? can there possibly be any stray voltage still? i want to try another tang but am nervous, and i have a case of STN, which the only thing i can think causing it may be stray voltage. i have 6 MJ1200's in tank and 2 heaters in sump. i was thinking of adding another ground probe, but i don't know if that would make a difference.
also by where the ground probe plugs into wall, i just looked at it and noticed there is a wire before plug which looks like it is a ground wire. i don't remember seeing this when i bought it. is it necessary to have the probe plugged in AND wrap this wire around switchplate screw? why is there a plug and wire? i'm not good w/ electricity.
Dubbin1
01/12/2006, 10:53 PM
If you are not having any problems with any other life in the tank then I would say that you do not have any voltage in it.
well i had 3 tangs on excellent diets, get LLD and die. i also have a case of STN on an acro, as well as a few other sps in the past. what about the extra wire? do i need to tie around switchplate screw in addition to plug in outlet??? what about a second probe in sump???
orchidsnfish
01/12/2006, 11:14 PM
is it necessary to have the probe plugged in AND wrap this wire around switchplate screw? why is there a plug and wire? i'm not good w/ electricity.
No. You do one or the other. Not both. I only know because I just put one on my tank lastnight and I read the directions :) . Just two different options on how to ground it.
Angela
bump, would placing an extra probe in sump be overkill? can it help at all. 1 in tank and 1 in sump???
kevin gu3
01/13/2006, 11:43 AM
Stray voltage? Whats that?
If you ground the water and there is a voltage source won't you complete a circuit and generate not-so-stray amperage?
no idea, maybe someone who knows eletricity can chime in.
G_cuvier
01/13/2006, 03:43 PM
Stray voltage causing HLLE, (Head and Lateral Line Disease, which I believe is what you mean by LLD), is one of the presumed _possible_ causes of the disease.... It is _far_ from being proved to be the cause. Inadequate diet, odd water conditions, stray voltage and several other causes are all potential causes but anecdotal evidence to date both proves and disproves each and every one.
If you have implemented measures to eliminate the stray voltage then it is probably not the cause... It's something else.... Unfortunately I am no brighter than everyone else so I can't help you much further than that. Vary the diet, (heavy on the veggies some people claim to be useful), you have the strayy voltage taken care of, keep up the water quality and then it's up to you....
Final Disclaimer:-
Even with the worst cases of HLLE, of which I have seen some pretty horrific cases, the fish often live for years. It is generally accepted that HLLE is not a killer of fish though if other things are wrong it may be contributory.... You might want to proceed from that point of view.
PS0305
01/13/2006, 03:51 PM
Saturday night, I am going to be sitting at a table with a bunch of Electrical Engineers and Instrument/Control Techs (Dad's dept) for his birthday. If you shoot me an email with details (none of these people have fish tanks), I'll get a table wide poll. :P
Wiskey
01/13/2006, 03:53 PM
Ok, if you have stray voltage, and then ground the tank, all you have now is a compleate circit, just grounding the tank does not get rid of the leaking electricity. (this can be caused by a bad pump craked heater ect, we are not talking about static electricty here)
The benifit of a ground probe is only if you have a GFI plug, in that case the stray voltage will leak to ground and pop the GFI. If you have a GFI and a ground probe, and the GFI does not pop, it is safe to assume you don't have stray voltage.
HTH,
Whiskey
RobbyG
01/13/2006, 04:03 PM
Are you sure the electrical socket that your ground probe is plugged into is actually grounded? One of those cheapo 3 prong ground test units should verify that.
If it is grounded then the next test would be to use a digital voltmeter and put it on a low AC voltage setting like 30 volts scale then put the ground probe of meter on grounded surface and the positive one inside the tank water, if there is stray voltage you will get a reading. If you get no reading switch meter to DC mode and check if any DC voltage is leaking. BTW while doing this test try it with and without the titanium ground probe installed that will show if there is any voltage that it is being absorbed by the probe.
G_cuvier
01/13/2006, 05:25 PM
If I might "butt" into this conversation
originally posted by Tiger Shark - Think about it.... :rolleyes:
Final Disclaimer:-
Even with the worst cases of HLLE, of which I have seen some pretty horrific cases, the fish often live for years. It is generally accepted that HLLE is not a killer of fish though if other things are wrong it may be contributory.... You might want to proceed from that point of view.
I have seen fish that have erosion across the entire upper half of thier face to the point where you can't be sure if you are looking at the skull or not on several species of Pomacanthus Angelfish and Acanthurus Tangs. The damage to the lateral line has been similarly extraordinary yet I know those fish have lived for several years before expiring.
HLLE is not normally a killer of fish, (he says, again). You should look to other issues as the killer of your tangs rather than blame stray voltage as the problem.
If you really want to know if you have stray voltage in your tank put your hand in with bare feet on the floor. Then cut your hand very gently and put your hand back in... You will know if there is any stray voltage in there.... It's a whole different feeling to a salt sting.....
So, for those of you who want to keep discussing elec"trick"ery, feel free... But you are discussing an issue that isn't an issue..... really!
polywise
01/13/2006, 05:52 PM
DMK,
regardless of what is causing the stress to your fish, if you still feel that the ground probe is a good idea (I always use one), you need to look at the probe. If it came with a ground wire to be screwed into the plug plate, use it. that's how it works. I will be willing to bet that the prongs that go into the actual plug are plastic and serve no other function other than bringing the ground probe to a proper area to hook up with the actual ground for your house electricity
G_cuvier
01/13/2006, 06:01 PM
OK.... I give up again....
Damn, there are so many people here that know it all it isn't true!
Does anyone read around here.....
HLLE IS NOT CONSIDERED A FATAL DISEASE...... :mad:
polywise
01/13/2006, 06:30 PM
G_cuvier,
I wasn't talking about the HLLE -- It was more for peace of mind of the guy (DMK) who was going to have his hands in the water from time to time and how he might want to hook up a device that he has for his aquarium............
so i should screw that wire on plate screw. i don't remeber if prongs are plastic or not.
polywise
01/14/2006, 07:14 AM
yes -- that makes the ground probe work. The screw on the plate actualy screws into the metal of the plug, which is grounded into the electrical box.
RobbyG
01/16/2006, 04:08 PM
The two power prongs are plasic but the ground center pin is metal and there is no need to screw on the wire if the ground pin on your plug is properly grounded. I recommend you do for redundancy but it is not going to solve the problem if the whole electrical plug box is not grounded.
polywise
01/16/2006, 04:17 PM
RobbieG,
If the center pin is metal, that's correct ! --- Now you have me thinking, I am going to check mine tomorrow when I go to the office. I thought my entire plug was plastic.....
dandydan
01/16/2006, 04:26 PM
Electrically speaking, yes I am one,
Quite often electrical sockets are added to where a Tank will be installed and more often not properly,
I would suggest that you borrow a Earth loop impendence meter and have your earths/grounds checked for starters.
A tank does make a pretty good earth plate and can have a decent build up of Static.
Consider also its normally on an insulated wooden cabinet ( unless wet ) and most of the electrical equipment is Glass or plastic. Whether it has anything to do with LLh I dont know.
In one of my (too many 'helpfull' books, someone has actually stated that corals grew better,, Fish were happy and throwing parties with the Tank/Water grounded.
Bieeeee
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