anyone getting good macro shots under $500 [Archive]

DerrickBrown

01/18/2006, 05:39 PM

The A95/A80 are great cameras. Both equipped with a 7.8-23.4mm lens, both offer a 3x optical zoom range equivalent to a 38-114mm lens on a 35mm camera. Aperture ranges from f/2.8 to f/8.0 depending on the zoom setting, and can be manually or automatically adjusted.

The cameras are actually twins except for two main difference. The A95 has a slightly larger LCD screen and has a 5 megapixel censor.

Honestly, the extra megapixel size (4.1MP to a 5MP) isn't enough difference for the human eye to even recognize. If you are looking at one of these, the A80 (if you can find one) will be cheaper than the A95. I do however like the slightly larger screen on the A95 (1.8") compared to my A80 (1.5"). Other than the screen size, they are identical. Same firmware and lens.

I print 8x10 photos all the time on my A80 and they look awesome to say the least and take lovely Macros also.

Good luck with your decision on all the cameras on the market.

I simply decided on a maker, then picked a model made by them. That seem to be easier than going through all the different models on the market.

Emster

01/18/2006, 06:58 PM

I believe the A620 is the new version of the A95(correct me if I'm wrong). I am thinking of getting the A620, will it take good macro shots? Can you zoom in to the back of the tank and get an up close shot of a coral. With my old camera if I zoom in it won't be in focus. Thanks for any info.

jackson vile

01/18/2006, 07:36 PM

Another thing to remember is that this camera was made for close shots, but also has atatchable lenses for say macro shot specificly.

It is a realistic camera, for the price there is no camera that can beat the image quality.

For me I did not want to have to lug around some big A$$ camera around my neck.

With this camera I simply put it into my shirt or pant pocket when done, this is the most realistic camera.

Let's face it the best things that happen in life are speradic and can't be planed for.

Realisticly I can carry this camera all the time, however no one is really able to do that with a rebel or 10D or what ever, with out a hole heck of a lot of fuss.

I know a lot of people with expensive 1k-10k cameras, and guess what? They stay at home.

I am able to catch all of my lifes moments with easy they can't and most often don't bother as a result.

Unless of course you are like most American's with money; will to make poor impulse buys just because they have the money:lol:

DerrickBrown

01/18/2006, 08:11 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6532924#post6532924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Emster
I believe the A620 is the new version of the A95(correct me if I'm wrong). I am thinking of getting the A620, will it take good macro shots? Can you zoom in to the back of the tank and get an up close shot of a coral. With my old camera if I zoom in it won't be in focus. Thanks for any info.

I don't have any experience yet with this camera, but from all the specs. I would say Yes, the A620 should take great photos in regular and Macro modes.

Jackson Ville, I agree. The A80/A95 are two of the best cameras made ever made for under $500. I have had mine for a few years now and still love taking photos with it. The option of being able to add different lenses puts these cameras so far ahead many of the other cameras that competes with it. I believe the A620 has this feature also. I have to admit though, I am looking forward to getting a digital SLR though. Much higher control over all the features individually for those who can utilize the features manually but these cost over $500 easily.

smellfishy

01/18/2006, 09:39 PM

Anyone with experience with the Canon powershot S80 in comparison with the above mentioned A80/A95?A620?

DerrickBrown

01/18/2006, 11:09 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6534312#post6534312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smellfishy
Anyone with experience with the Canon powershot S80 in comparison with the above mentioned A80/A95?A620?

I did some research for you on the S80 and found out some info. It has a 5.8-20.7mm (35mm equivalent is 28 - 100mm). The lens on the S80 does have a lightly wider lens on the zoomed out section but does not zoom in as far when compared to the A80/A95's 7.8-23.4mm (35mm equivalent 38 to 114 mm) and the A620 has a 7.3-29mm (35mm equivalent 41-131mm ).

Read here for more info on the S80:
S80 Photos and review (http://www.megapixel.net/reviews/canon-s80/s80-samp.php)

With the lens set to the wide angle, the S80 is able to focus on a subject 4cm (1.6 in.) from the front element of the lens. When the zoom is set to the maximum telephoto, the S80 can focus on a subject that is between 28 and 30 cm from the front element, capturing a horizontal field of view measuring approximately 10 cm (3.9 in).

With the zoom at the wide angle end, the S80's macro images easily reveal barrel distortion as soon as some straight element in the subject is positioned near the long edges of the frame; unlike images captured at the telephoto end, which are effectively distortion-free.

Read here for more info on the A80/A95
A80/A95 photos and review (http://www.megapixel.net/reviews/canon-a80/a80-samp.php)

Macro focusing distances for the A80 are between 5 and 45 cm (2 and 17.5 inches) in wide angle and 25 to 45 cm (9.75 to 18 inches) at the telephoto end of the zoom. The macro field of view is completely free of distortion in wide or zoomed view.

**Notice how the photos of the A80/A95 are a little more sharper than the S80 although it is a 8MP compared to the 4 and 5 MP. This is a clear example that more megapixels does not indicate that one will have a sharper image. This has become a sales tactic now that the manufactors have set to sell more expensive camera.

Read here for more info on the A620
A620 photos and review (http://www.megapixel.net/reviews/canon-a620/a620-samp.php)

On the A620, at the wide angle end a bit of barrel distortion can be seen, but it dissipates quickly if the zoom is moved past the widest angle. Not as bad as the S80. With the Macro mode the PowerShot A620 is able to focus on a subject that is from 1 to 45 cm (0.4 to 18 in.) away when the zoom is set to the wide angle end, and from 25 to 45 cm (9.8 to 18 in.) at the telephoto end.

I like all the cameras above, but if I had to choose one between the S80 and the A620, it would be the A620 for the sharper images that it produces compared to the S80. The S80 produces a somewhat soft image. Both will do the job, but I think the A620 will do a better job.

These are my opinions only and your eyes may see things totally opposite from me.

Hope this helps.

Emster

01/19/2006, 08:53 PM

Derrick, This is just the info I have been looking for, thanks for explaining it to us new people. Do you know of a good macro lense to buy for these cameras and do they just make the image bigger? I'm trying to understand exactly what they do.

DerrickBrown

01/19/2006, 09:32 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6541643#post6541643 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Emster
Derrick, This is just the info I have been looking for, thanks for explaining it to us new people. Do you know of a good macro lense to buy for these cameras and do they just make the image bigger? I'm trying to understand exactly what they do.

No problem, glad I could help.

Which camera are you leaning toward? Each camera can't use the same lens. Focal lengths vary and that determines which lens to use.

I.E. - A canon A70 can't use the same lens as a A80, but the A95 and the A80 can use the same lens. There are some instances where a lens from another camera can be used, but only if the focal length is set accordingly to produce a focused image. Stepper rings and or spacers normally have to be used in these situations. That is getting into more than needs to be explain here though, but I can try to help you as much as I can, but I need to know which camera you are referring to before what lens is recommended.

Macro lens magnify the image seen. A reversed 50mm f1.4 lenses will produce a great macro image (roughly a +20 diopter), but so will a +10 diopter lens. One will magnify the image greater and that determines which lens is right for you.

The photos below were taken of a $20 with a dime to show the comparision.

A80/A95 macro native image (no attachments)
http://www.lensmateonline.com/Macrosamples/tnA80Nativec.jpg

A80/A95 macro image with a reversed 50mm lens attached
http://www.lensmateonline.com/Macrosamples/tnA80+17Reversed.jpg

Ofcourse, in the full high resolution photo, you can see the ink markings and see the texture of the paper in great detail. This is just an example of what is possible with different lenses.

Derrick

Emster

01/20/2006, 05:29 AM

I think I'm going to get the A620. I want to be able to take a close up photo(like the second pic) of a coral that is near the back wall of the tank(18"). Is that possible with this camera?Thanks for all the good info.

DerrickBrown

01/20/2006, 01:51 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6543552#post6543552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Emster
I think I'm going to get the A620. I want to be able to take a close up photo(like the second pic) of a coral that is near the back wall of the tank(18"). Is that possible with this camera?Thanks for all the good info.

Before you read this, I want to apologize for the size of this post. Making you move right and left to read this, but you'll see why I did this.

Ok, I think it is important to understand exactly what Macro means, not to say you don't know, but just to clarify.

MACRO - Abbreviation of macro-photography. Extreme close-up photography which requires either a lens able to focus close-up or an adapter, so as to reach close to a 1:1 ratio.

The key works are "Extreme close-up"

The A620 is indicated to be able to take a macro photo up to 18" away from the source, but you must remember you would have to be in full tele zoom for this and you still won't be able to get the detail that I think you are trying to get at 18" compared to a shorter distance of say 1" away. Some people often use telephoto lens along with macro lens when they are trying to get good macros when the source is away from camera somewhat. Normally macros are taken within a few inches of the object. In this case usually the front of the tank with the object just on the other side of the glass. You will have to take an image through several different mediums also. Air, glass, then water which all have different properies which cause light to bend differently. Wait that is getting too techinical.

The second image in the above post of the $20 bill was taken a lot closer to the object than the first image. Distance of 1" compared to 10" for the first image. To get a very good detailed macro at 18" away from the object, you will more than likely need a telephoto lens to go along with the macro lens to compensate for the distance which unfortunately requires more money out of your pocket. Telephoto lens aren't very cheap either depending on which lens is bought. I.E., A 1.75x tele lens will be a little cheaper than a 2.4X lens usually. Ofcourse, there are exceptions to everything.

For macro lens for the A620, do a search for a Raynox DCR-250 Super Macro Filter for around $56. I really like this lens. It is a +8 diopter lens. The second photo in the above post of the $20 with the reversed 50mm lens is roughly +20 diopters. Don't feel like you're not going to be happy. You're not going to find a add on lens that is going to give you a +20. Several other items are needed to make that +20 setup work. A +8 diopter is very good for what you may need to do. A +20 can be too much magnification at times and a lower magni is needed then.

Here are some photos of the +8 macro compared to a native (no attachment) A80 Macro in full resolution for your enjoyment. This shows the true photo unaltered.

Native A80 Macro at 10"
http://www.lensmateonline.com/Macrosamples/A80Nativec.JPG

+8 Macro lens at 1.2"
http://www.lensmateonline.com/A85microcomp/a80dcr250maxzoom.jpg

Get a Macro lens and use it for a while. Then decide if you need more zooming magnification. You may not need additional zooming and then again, you may. I can't say for you. It is all personal preference there. I will help you further then if you need help with selecting a Telephoto lens. If you understand this, you'll see why you may need a tele lens later on though.

Hope this helps,
Derrick

Just for kicks, here is the 50mm reversed in full res at 1".

http://www.lensmateonline.com/Macrosamples/A80+17Reversed.JPG

Emster

01/20/2006, 07:19 PM

Okay, I understand it much better now. Thanks

deansreef

01/21/2006, 05:27 AM

the which camera to get is such a hard decision, thanks for this great info

DerrickBrown

01/21/2006, 08:38 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6550640#post6550640 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by deansreef
the which camera to get is such a hard decision, thanks for this great info

This is true.

It is probably best to set a budget as a first step. A budget with a latitude of a couple of hundred dollars might be easier. Then the easiest way to find a camera is to select your favorite camera maker, then select a model from them. However, you do limit yourself some. The best advise I could give anyone is to take your time and make a wise choice in the end when you pull out your Ben's.

Ask yourself these questions when deciding on a new camera. (not in any particular order)
1) What is the main purpose of the camera?
2) How many features do I need?
3) Do I prefer a simple use point and shoot camera?
4) Is a zoom critical for your needs?
5) How much do I want to spend?
6) What size photos do I want to print?

If you need zoom, totally ignore digital zoom specs altogether, these are simply cropping systems and the same results can be obtained from any image editing program. Concentrate on true optical zoom the camera offers. Look for optical zooms of 3X and above. Also look at zooms that cover a range of 35mm to 105mm, these offer a reasonably wide angle and telephoto range.

While a bunch of features are nice to have, the most important criteria is the image quality of a camera, after all, what good is very high resolution and fancy features if the image quality is just so-so? The image quality of any camera is also the most difficult to gauge and is not guaranteed that the camera with the highest resolution will have the best image.

I showed this above. Look back at S80 info above. It is a 8MP camera, but the A80 (4MP), A95 (5MP) and A620 (7MP) all have better images produced. As I mentioned, many times before to others. The Megapixel Race is a sales tactic laid out by the camera makers. This sales approach has gotten many people in the country to buy a camera that they really didn't need. Most people print 4x6 and 5x7 photos with an occassional 8x10 photo. I am able to print an 8x10 easily with my 4MP A80 with absolutely no problem. Remember, the higher MP will allow you to print larger images, say 14x17 or 24x24, but what normal person does on a frequent basis, plus most home photo printers only print up to 8x10. Professionals or those who sell and make a living from shotting photos do and a higher resolution camera would probably benefit them more, but for the average "Joe", this is unrealistic. The sales person may not be willing to tell you all this and just try to push a 20MP camera on you with the statement, it provides you the best image quality possible. This is true and false at the same time. Best image on a larger print, but image quality may not be good from the start. The truth is, my A80 4MP produces a better image than the S80 8MP. That is a doubling in megapixel, but lacks in image quality. Which would you want?

The truth is, a 4 MP camera will show very little difference than a 6 MP or 7MP and even a 8 MP on some photos up to a certain size. The 6,7 & 8 "should" be more defined when cropped or zoomed in on your computer to see the pixels, but for a normal photo in the real world of a 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10 compared to each other would leave you wondering which produced which image. This doesn't mean to run out and get the lowest MP you can find, but this does mean, you don't have to have the highest MP on the market to produce a very high quality photo.

However, although a 8MP is definitely more resolution than you really need for an 8x10 print. There is one aspect a higher MP would be beneficial to you. That is cropping. People do tend to underestimate the importance of cropping to improve their photos. With higher megapixels, you can crop away a lot of distracting detail, yet still end up with a very nice-looking 8x10 print, but you need to have good image quality from the start and this goes back to selecting a camera with good image quality, not just a high MP count.

Do your homework. Once you have done your part, you'll fell much better about your purchase knowing you've done all your homework and research.

Happy searching.

mokujin22

01/24/2006, 12:03 PM

what an awesome post! thanks for the great info! i think that i'm about sold on this line. :) :) :)

Emster

01/25/2006, 06:17 PM

I was just thinking the same thing,lots of good info for new people.Okay, I have been online looking at canon lenses for the a620.Is the Raynox dcr-250 comparable to the canon 58mm 250D close up lens and do I need an adapter to use them. Thanks

DerrickBrown

01/25/2006, 10:53 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6586447#post6586447 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Emster
I was just thinking the same thing,lots of good info for new people.Okay, I have been online looking at canon lenses for the a620.Is the Raynox dcr-250 comparable to the canon 58mm 250D close up lens and do I need an adapter to use them. Thanks

Ok, they are both great lenses, but they are different. The Raynox DCR-250 (2.5x) is roughly a +8 diopter lens (no more than a +10) and the Canon 58mm 250D (1.5x if I remember correctly) is a +4 lens. So, the Raynox is almost twice as powerful as the Canon lens. My personal favorite is the Raynox DCR-250, but some say it is too powerful and in all honesty, that is true in some instances, but I really like the Raynox DCR-250 a lot. You could use a Raynox DCR-150 which is also a 1.5x like the Canon lens, but I think you may be happier with the Raynox DCR-250. It is personal choice with lenses.

Yes, you will need a Conversion Lens Adapter for the A620. Lens Adapter LA-DC58F or an equivalant for the A620/A610 and other G-Series cameras from Canon will be needed for any add on lens used for those cameras.

Camera -> Lens Adapter -> Add on Lens (Macro, Wide Angle, Fish Eye, Tele Lens, etc..). In that order.

You could stack lenses also. I.E. - Telephoto lens with a Macro lens. The photo below is a photo only of the lens adapter without an add on lens. The add on lens screws into place or snaps into place as the Raynox does.
http://www.lensmateonline.com/newsite/adapters/CanonA620A610/a620_300px_grey.jpg

LA-DC58F about $22
http://smart-shop.biz/cgi-bin/shop.pl?SearchIndex=Blended&Operation=ItemSearch&Keywords=ladc58f

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000B640KO.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Raynox DCR-250 about $40. (Cheapest price I've seen for this item)
http://smart-shop.biz/B0002YBXBY/Raynox_DCR-250_Macro-Scan_2.5x_Super_Macro_Conversion_Lens_with_Snap-on_Universal_Mount_for_52mm_to_67mm_Filter_Diameters..htm

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/275182.jpg

A80 Camera with the appropiate Lens Adapter and a Raynox DCR-250
http://www.nagnag.jp/digitalcamera/cameras/a80/images/a80-dcr250.jpg

Canon 250D 58mm about $85 (About the average for this item)
http://smart-shop.biz/B000050M6M/Canon_250D_58mm_Close-up_Lens_for_A610_A620_G1_G2_G3_G5_G6__EOS_SLR_Cameras.htm

http://www.onecall.com/ImageCache/Canon_250d_300x250_s.gif

Raynox DCR-150 about $38 (About the average for this item)
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=raydcr150&catid=4012&store=

http://www.1oel.com/comersus/store/catalog/RAYDCR150.jpg

For comparision purposes:
Canon 250D (1.5x)
http://muenx.net/img/swus/picture-0016.jpg

Raynox DCR-150 (1.5x)
http://www.raynox.co.jp/actualimage/90isM-150MacroFlower-1.jpg

Raynox DCR-250 (2.5x)
http://www.raynox.co.jp/actualimage/90isM-250MacroFlower-1.jpg

Remember, the 1.5x lens can take a very nice shot if you are close to the subject being shot. The 2.5x takes amazing photos, but it can be too much magnification at times for some.

Just so you know, I absolutely hate Frogs/Toads, but I had to do what I had to do to help you out. LOL... I know,weird huh?

Hope this helps,
Derrick

DerrickBrown

01/25/2006, 11:19 PM

Ok, I couldn't help it. Here are a few more images for you. I wasn't sure if I explained the 1.5x lens enough or in good enough detail. To clarify things, see the information below.

Canon 58mm 250D Notice the difference in image size once the subject distance was shorten.
http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/photos/bug_on%20_yellow_flower.jpg

Raynox DCR-150 Notice the difference in image size once the subject distance was shorten.
http://www.raynox.co.jp/actualimage/digital/comparison/c750uz/c750uz-dcr150-flower.jpg

Raynox DCR-250 Creme of the Crop. Notice the difference in image size once the subject distance was shorten.
http://www.raynox.co.jp/actualimage/digital/comparison/c750uz/c750-dcr250-flower.jpg

The DCR-250 is nice, but you can you see how it can over magnify the image. Regardless, the Raynox DCR-250 is still my favorite.

Happy shooting,
Derrick

01/27/2006, 09:58 AM

This is a great thread with some great info. However, I'm still a little confused and my brain is all mush!
I have a Canon powershot A80, and when I started doing research into the macro lense, the only one they showed was "52mm close-up lens 250D"
Is this my only option for a macro lens, or are there other brands, that may be less expensive, that would work with this camera? I basically just want to know what I need to buy!
Thanks in advance for any input or suggestions you can give me!

DerrickBrown

01/27/2006, 04:02 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6600949#post6600949 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CH
This is a great thread with some great info. However, I'm still a little confused and my brain is all mush!
I have a Canon powershot A80, and when I started doing research into the macro lense, the only one they showed was "52mm close-up lens 250D"
Is this my only option for a macro lens, or are there other brands, that may be less expensive, that would work with this camera? I basically just want to know what I need to buy!
Thanks in advance for any input or suggestions you can give me!

I'll try to keep this short as possible. The A80 can use other lenses/filters as long as they are the correct diameter for the adapter. The A80/A95 uses a 52mm, but the A610/A620 uses a 58mm, so the same size lens can't be used without additional equiptment. i.e, stepper rings and/or spacers.

Canon will only push their lenses (more expensive usually) as you would imagine. Ford isn't going to push a Chevy product. Although the tires and wheels on one may fit onto the other.

The equivalent lens adapter for the A80 normally is a 52mm like the OEM Conversion Lens Adapter LA-DC52D. There are some places where you can get a 37mm that will allow 37mm lenses to be used or you can use stepper rings up and down for the size needed.

Below are images of a A80 with an OEM LA-DC52D adapter and different types of lenses. The most important item is not the lens, but the adapter lens that the lens attaches to. After this has been done, then chosing a lens that is a high quality lens. If the correct length is not right, the the image will be fuzzy (distortion). You can have the most expensive lens on the planet with the wrong adapter and the photo image will look like crap. I'll show more on this at the end of this post.

A80 with LA-DC52D Conversion Adapter
http://www.nagnag.jp/digitalcamera/cameras/a80/images/a80-adapter.jpg

A80 with Raynox DCR-250
http://www.nagnag.jp/digitalcamera/cameras/a80/images/a80-dcr250.jpg

A80 with Kenko LD-183T
http://www.nagnag.jp/digitalcamera/cameras/a80/images/a80-dcr720.jpg

A80with Kenko LD-20T
http://www.nagnag.jp/digitalcamera/cameras/a80/images/a80-ld20t.jpg

None of the lenses shown above are made my Canon, but they work fine. The Raynox DCR-150 and Raynox DCR-250 are my personal favorites for macros for the A80. They are cheaper than the some. You could also look at the Hoya and Tiffen brands also. I recommend any of the 3 choices. They all are good lenses.

Here are examples of using the wrong adapter. The wrong adapter has a different focal length for the camera. i.e, A70 isn't the same as the A80.

A80 with incorrect adapter
http://www.lensmateonline.com/A80%20Teleconverters/Tiffen372xcornercropwos.jpg

A80 with an correct adapter
http://www.lensmateonline.com/A80%20Teleconverters/Tiffen372Xwithspacercrop.jpg

I always seem to get diarrhea of the keyboard on these forums. :lol:

Oh well...

:dance:

01/27/2006, 04:32 PM

Ok, that helps a ton. at least I can go into the camera shop and not feel like a cmoplete idiot. I also don't want to spend a ton, so in your opinion, the Raynox lenses are good, and at a much better price, correct?
I'm assuming, as long as I get the canon brand adapter for the A80, I should be good to go, right? Then just find a decently priced lens.
Thanks again for the great info! I think you just saved me some money! LOL

DerrickBrown

01/27/2006, 05:00 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6604040#post6604040 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CH
Ok, that helps a ton. at least I can go into the camera shop and not feel like a cmoplete idiot. I also don't want to spend a ton, so in your opinion, the Raynox lenses are good, and at a much better price, correct?
I'm assuming, as long as I get the canon brand adapter for the A80, I should be good to go, right? Then just find a decently priced lens.
Thanks again for the great info! I think you just saved me some money! LOL

Ofcourse, anything can be made complicated if that is your intent as some camera shops unfortunately do to their customers. Some try to talk over your head so to speak to make you feel you need something you don't, but you've got the basics down.

Yes, you are correct.

A80 + LA-DC52D + High Quality Lens = Great Photos

It's that simple.

I like the Raynox (DCR-150 or DCR-250) macro lenses since macros are usually what's used in Reef photography. This with the Canon LA-DC52D will be no more than $80 usually. Surfing the net usually gets you better prices also, just use your common online caution as you would with any store online. If you aren't comfortable, don't buy from there. See what others have to say about the store if possible.

Be sure to show us some photos once you get everything setup and going.

hmuenx

01/28/2006, 01:44 PM

Just so you know, I absolutely hate Frogs/Toads, but I had to do what I had to do to help you out. LOL... I know,weird huh?

I am not sure whether your dislike for toads is more weird than the fact that you placed a deep link into my web page (http://muenx.net/) without asking me for permission. Although I am not particularly proud of that image, I would still prefer to be asked before other people make use of it.

(I am sure now. Your dislike for toads *is* very weird.)

DerrickBrown

01/28/2006, 04:38 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6609831#post6609831 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hmuenx
I am not sure whether your dislike for toads is more weird than the fact that you placed a deep link into my web page (http://muenx.net/) without asking me for permission. Although I am not particularly proud of that image, I would still prefer to be asked before other people make use of it.

(I am sure now. Your dislike for toads *is* very weird.)

Hmuenx, I apologize for anything I've done to you, but I've never been to your site. Exactly what photo are you talking about?

Please show what link you are talking about?

Thanks

I just visited your site in the above link and there are some amazing photos there, but again I've never been to your site.

**Update**
I see the frog link is to your site, but I didn't get the link from your site as I have never been to your site. I honestly can't remember where it came from. I'll ask the moderator to remove it. I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

01/28/2006, 05:21 PM

Ok, I found a Tiffen 52mm 3 piece set (+1, +2, +4) on Amazon for $35.00
and they have the converter for $15.
This sounds like a pretty good price to me. Do you think the tiffen are decent enough to buy, especially for a first time macro set?
I could always upgrade later.

Also, in my research, I found a 37mm adapter for the a80.
Is there a difference between using 37mm lenses and 52mm lens? Obviously the 52mm is bigger, but does this have any effect on the actual picture?

hmuenx

01/28/2006, 05:30 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610725#post6610725 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DerrickBrown
I see the frog link is to your site, but I didn't get the link from your site as I have never been to your site. I honestly can't remember where it came from. I'll ask the moderator to remove it. I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

No worries, I justed wanted to make the point clear that using an image requires explicit permission, and the way you included the image in your post is commonly considered as 'use'...

DerrickBrown

01/28/2006, 05:44 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6611013#post6611013 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hmuenx
No worries, I justed wanted to make the point clear that using an image requires explicit permission, and the way you included the image in your post is commonly considered as 'use'...

Thanks

DerrickBrown

01/28/2006, 05:50 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610961#post6610961 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CH
Ok, I found a Tiffen 52mm 3 piece set (+1, +2, +4) on Amazon for $35.00
and they have the converter for $15.
This sounds like a pretty good price to me. Do you think the tiffen are decent enough to buy, especially for a first time macro set?
I could always upgrade later.

Also, in my research, I found a 37mm adapter for the a80.
Is there a difference between using 37mm lenses and 52mm lens? Obviously the 52mm is bigger, but does this have any effect on the actual picture?

The Tiffen lens are good and that is a decent price for them.

37mm and the 52mm difference is size mainly. The 37mm won't block the view finder as much as the 52mm would if that is important to you also. The 37mm won't block the autofocus beam also as much. The 52mm is more common for lenses though. There are a some nice 37mm sizes out there also.

Really just depends on the size you want to go with.

BeanAnimal

01/29/2006, 05:03 PM

I hate to veer off topic here, but the exchange above (albiet polite) is something that seems to come up a lot lately, or at least has the potential to come up more often.

It appears that hmuenx watches his server logs to determine what pictures are being viewd. He must have seen a few dozen (or more) hits on his toad image and found this site as the referer. I would imagine he then sigend up at RC so he could post his disaproval.

However, the qestion then becomes that of "use" or rather "fair use". The is a very vague part of the copyright law with regards to interpretation and intention.

My observations:
The image was not TAKEN from the site (I.E. no local copy was made), and the image is a live link to the site (as evidenced by the URL to the image. The image was posted on a website with a public domain name, public url and images that are viewable by the public. There is no obvious disclaimer, terms of use or any other indication that these images are copyrighted or protected. Furthermore, the fashion that they were used in here at RC was not for profit, financial gain or other similar use. The image was used as an example in a conversation.

I do not condone the theft of copyrigted images or material. However, there are HUNDREDS (if not thousands) of images posted here and likely downloaded and stored on peoples desktops, web pages or other spaces. It's just something to think about.

I understand why hmuenx dropped in and posted, but consider the "threat" kind of petty of not unfounded (at least based upon my understanding of image use and rights).

If somebody knows more about the specifics that would apply here, could they please fill us in (even if another thread needs to be started). I think clarification would be a great help to most of us that are not in the know.

hmuenx

01/31/2006, 07:42 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6617720#post6617720 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
However, the qestion then becomes that of "use" or rather "fair use". The is a very vague part of the copyright law with regards to interpretation and intention.

Lets have a look at the technical details. The toad image is located on the page

http://muenx.net/img/swus/page-0016.html,

where you can see some information and navigation elements. In particular, this enables the visitor to identify and contact me with a few clicks in case of questions or remarks. However, only the URL of the JPEG image included in this page has been used in this thread with any additional source description, rendering the visitor entirely unable to identify or contact me.

When you are quoting references to add substance to your statements, it is common to mention the specific author and title. This is usually considered as 'fair use' and, for example, scientific work would not be possible otherwise. Just including the direct image URL in the post without any additional references is entirely opposite to this and is usually not considered acceptable.

In the rather unlikely case that there is no other way than directly including one of my images in other work, I am quite willing to discuss appropriate terms. For example, the health office in my home town is allowed to use one of my images without any charges (but they properly asked before).

I am a bit surprised, though, that I have to discuss this because I thought that these aspects are quite obvious. Since I found a number of similar uses of my images on other sites, I will probably go for the less polite but more efficient technical solution to disallow access to images to all unknown referrers.

(I am still wondering why somebody could not like toads. That's very weird.)

hmuenx

01/31/2006, 07:45 AM

double post, please ignore :)

BeanAnimal

01/31/2006, 08:24 AM

I fully understand your point of view. I certainly had hoped that somebody would have some input on the legal aspects of situations such as this. In other words is the situation a "legal issue" or one of "polite conduct".

You may be suprised, but then again you deal with images on what seems to be a professional or artistic level and therefore concern yourself with such matters. I have a feeling most people that use images either illegaly or inpolitely (in a situation like you find here) do so out of a lack of understanding about the legalality or the etiquette associated with such use. In my eyes there is a big difference between what you find here and a blatant theft of an image for commercial purposes.

If you would like the image removed from the link, we can easily have a staff member edit the post. Locking the images to unknown refers is your right and likely your best course of action if you intend to keep casual web surfers from linking your pictures.. In my opinion it will serve no real purpose and those who steal images for commercial use will still steal the images anyway. This is however my opinion and is only worth as much.

Thank your for your response. I would also add that after browsing your site, you do have some very well composed photos. Nice work.

DerrickBrown

01/31/2006, 09:05 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6630428#post6630428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hmuenx

(I am still wondering why somebody could not like toads. That's very weird.)

My phobia may be uncommon in general, but there are phobias for everything believe it or not. I'm sure, there is something everyone doesn't like or has a phobia with even if they don't know it because they haven't been exposed to it yet. It is human nature. My fear of frogs is no different psychologically than someone being afraid of heights (Acrophobia), spiders (Arachnophobia), cats (Aclurophobia), etc... I hate when it rains during the spring, summer and fall because they come out and hop and jump all over the place or when you try to cut the yard around a wet/moist area. I have a hard time going to my LFS because they have the aqautic version there also for sale, but I overcome the anxiety and go into the store. I just hate all the little b..tards. Excuse my expression. I am able to control my fear for the most part, but a true phobia is hard work to overcome and most times it is never overcome, but simply dealt with. My wife and family joke with me about it all the time, so I have a good sense of humor about it, but they know I really don't care for frogs at all. Just your photo alone makes my skin crawl. If you don't have the phobia, you couldn't understand it. That is why I know to have a sense of humor about it because it really is silly and very uncommon, but the human mind is very complex. You know it is harmless, but yet you hate it and fear it.
Phobias are very real and affect some to the point of them not being able to function in society properly.

Batrachophobia is the fear of amphibians, such as frogs, newts, salamanders, etc.

I'm not exactly the above. Mine is strictly frogs.
Ranidaphobia - Fear of Frogs

See the link for more.
http://www.phobialist.com/reverse.html

WOW.. This is really off the macrophoto subject of the thread. Enough of this conversation. Back to photos for me.
:rollface:

hmuenx

01/31/2006, 11:34 AM

Hopefully, this is my last off-topic contribution before I leave you guys to your underwater pastime. ;)

@BeanAnimal

I agree, the only way to really stop unauthorized use of images is not to show them on the Internet. I guess, though, that the casual surfers directly linking, usually unaware of what they are effectively doing, are the majority of those who are using images without permission.

Thank you for the kind words about the photos.

@Derrick

Actually, I thought that you just do not like toads. The one shown in the image is about the size of your thumbnail. Really cute. I am irrationally afraid of heights, so you do not have to tell me about the existence of phobias...

BeanAnimal

01/31/2006, 01:25 PM

thanks for stopping in and good luck with your pastime as well.

DerrickBrown

01/31/2006, 05:53 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6631934#post6631934 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hmuenx

@Derrick

Actually, I thought that you just do not like toads. The one shown in the image is about the size of your thumbnail. Really cute. I am irrationally afraid of heights, so you do not have to tell me about the existence of phobias...

haha... fear of heights is very common. Atleast you are in the majority. haha...

I went back to your site from the link you posted and I must say, you really do have some very nice photos. Amazing actually.

What camera system are you using if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks

hmuenx

02/01/2006, 05:26 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6634975#post6634975 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DerrickBrown
I went back to your site from the link you posted and I must say, you really do have some very nice photos. Amazing actually.

What camera system are you using if you don't mind me asking?

Thank you for the positive feedback, it's appreciated! I am using a Canon EOS 10D digital SLR, with lenses from 11 to 400 mm...

DerrickBrown

02/02/2006, 06:17 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6643621#post6643621 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hmuenx
Thank you for the positive feedback, it's appreciated! I am using a Canon EOS 10D digital SLR, with lenses from 11 to 400 mm...

I've been seriously looking at some Digital SLR including the Canon EOS Digital SLR but couldn't decide. I think your photos have really narrowed that searched down to only one for sure now.

Haha, thanks alot

jsbzmcdaniel

02/04/2006, 03:46 PM

DerrickBrown,

Sent you a PM!

jsbzmcdaniel

02/04/2006, 06:51 PM

After reading this post I went out a bought a Cannon A620. Now all I need to do is get the macro lenses and I should be set. Can someone using this camera let me know the settings they are using for reference?

Jim

maroun.c

02/06/2006, 09:15 AM

Sorry if i missed something here, but why would someone run into the trouble of getting all those adapters, lenses,...
also as you state a bad choice of adapter even with a good quality lense would lead to suboptimal quality images.....
Also i guess lens prices would add a considerable sum to the price of the camera and adapters as we're talking in the P&S buget here.
I had very decent macros with a Nikon coolpix 5700 it's a bit old now but yet it's a very efficient camera for macros. i've taken some very nice pics with it. i'm sure it would cost less than 500 usd in the states nowadays. you could go for the 8700 or 8800 but that will be at an added cost.
the 5700 is 5.2 Mp accepts an external flash if needed, it will focus at 3 cm in macro mode. yes 3 cm. 8x optical zoom with 3x digital zoom. also the lens is the equicalent of 33-330 so its overall a great walkaround camera good for scenery and great for macros
and with the zoom and the decent number of pixels yo could achieve a decent imagae magnification as well as print.
also it offers manual, shutter and aperture control.....
i suffered with it because of slow focus and shutter lag and bad focusing in low light as it doesn't have an autofocus assist lamp. so it didn't do so great with action shots, but those are no problem with macro.
I got a D70s and even when i buy a macro lens for it i'll keep my 5700.
how would you compare macros with it to macros with the setup youre describing? do you think adding an additional macro lens over an attachment ring.... would offer better quality because yo are using a macro lens?

02/06/2006, 01:17 PM

Well, I finally got my adapter and lenses, and I've been practicing all weekend!
I still have some work to do. I have a hard time getting it to focus right, get enough light, proper color, etc, etc. Just getting all the settings right is difficult for me

This shot of Digitata turned out fairly well, a lot better than before I had the close up lenses anyway. I wouldn't call it an award winner or anything, but I don't know how much I can expect out of my A80!

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/35591IMG_5054_reduced.JPG

This clownfish would be a great shot if he was in focus! It's still not bad, but I just can't seem to get the fish shots to come out clear.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/35591IMG_5025_reduced.jpg

Comments or suggestion appreciated!

DerrickBrown

02/06/2006, 06:37 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6678857#post6678857 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CH
Well, I finally got my adapter and lenses, and I've been practicing all weekend!
I still have some work to do. I have a hard time getting it to focus right, get enough light, proper color, etc, etc. Just getting all the settings right is difficult for me

This shot of Digitata turned out fairly well, a lot better than before I had the close up lenses anyway. I wouldn't call it an award winner or anything, but I don't know how much I can expect out of my A80!

Not bad CH, which lens did you use on those? Tiffen?

DerrickBrown

02/06/2006, 06:48 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6677440#post6677440 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by maroun.c

how would you compare macros with it to macros with the setup youre describing? do you think adding an additional macro lens over an attachment ring.... would offer better quality because yo are using a macro lens?

A macro lens will magnify the image even if it is already nice. So if you have great native macros already, a macro lens should make it that much better (closer) and vice versa. If the image is not good to start with, it wouldn't get better and only get worse. I don't think anyone ever said that the macro lens would make an image better with a substandard camera. I think that is what you are talking about.

BTW I never use the digital zoom on my camera or any digital camera. It only distorts things. The optical zoom is all I would use. It gives the best image IMO. The digitalimage is merely a cropped section of the image which is never clear and often grainy. It would be better to obtain a camera that has a higher optical zoom than one with a higher digital zoom.

I haven't used your camera so I'm unable to give a comparison.

02/06/2006, 07:33 PM

I used the Tiffen, and I've been using all three of them stacked to give me a total of +7. I still don't entirely know what I'm doing, but I'll just keep fiddling. I have trouble figuring out where to set the focus on the macro setting, it seems like I'm setting it farther away than the object really is. For example, I use the optical zoom to zoom in, and then in the manual macro mode, I have to adjust it to about 2ft before it's focused right.
I don't know if this makes sense or not, but I'm still just working out all my settings.

broe33

02/06/2006, 08:04 PM

how about the fuji f11? i hear it has a better iso and a faster shutter speed, is that important but haven't been able to find a lens adapter for it.

i have been looking at getting the Cannon A620, but see alot of things still about the Cannon A95. I know the 620 is higher mega pixel but my main concern is for the macro.

Is there a consensus at all?

maroun.c

02/06/2006, 10:42 PM

Totally agree on the Digital zoom. i don't recall using it. However what i intended to know was that if you have decent macro with your camera lens alone, can you still improve them by attaching an additional macro lens?
I'll post a few macros i took with mine, their not the best this camera could achieve but do you think i can get much better results if I used your setup? I already have the ring that goes from the camera to any additional tele or wide angle lense, and i will be getting a macro lens for my D70s do you think it's worth buying the adapter ring to fit this macro lens on the 5700 and try some pics or would hte macro lens alone on the D70s give better quality?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Sand%20anemone/DSCN4412.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/ZOO/Picture103copy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/ZOO/pic1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/ZOO/zoo4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/ZOO/zoo2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/ZOO/pic3.jpg

maroun.c

02/06/2006, 11:01 PM

and a few others that i like

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Mushroom%20anemones/9b239c98.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Flash%20Photography/Picture079.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Flash%20Photography/Fireshrimp.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Flash%20Photography/leathernoflash.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Flash%20Photography/koletang.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Flash%20Photography/fireshrimpbicolor.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/pods/Picture153copy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Star%20polyps/Picture095.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Maroun/Star%20polyps/Picture099.jpg

trmiv

02/07/2006, 02:50 PM

Glad I found this thread.

I have a Canon A70 that I've had for awhile. I've been tempted to get a new camera to take better macro pics, but do I need to? Really, even though it's only 3.2mp, the camera serves its purpose for me. I'd love to get some nice macro shots, but I can't really afford to get a new camera right now.

Would purchasing a macro lens for this camera be worth it, or should I just save for a new camera? If I do get a macro lens, is there anyway it could be used on a newer canon if I get one later on?

Emster

08/10/2006, 09:18 PM

There is some very good info and great pictures in this thread, just wanted to bring it up from the dead to try and help some people.

maroun.c

08/12/2006, 04:19 AM

Funny I forgot having posted on this thread before and was about to answer after I reread page 1.
Anyway another suggestion would be to pay just a bit more and get a DSLR like the D50 or D70, I'm sure prices will drop now that the D80 has been announced then get the cheap but sharp lens (50mm 1.8) and get yourself a couple of closeup filters. you would have exceeded the budget by more than 2-300 usd but at least you would have a body that would allow you to directly moove into more professional stuff by getting 2 more lenses. and forthe time being youwould have a great lens for portraits, in addition to some using it as walk around lens ( I don't) and also with the cheap close up filters you would have acceptable macro capabilities. After thatone could buy the kit lens (unless you got it with the body (for a much lower price so I suggest getting it with the body) then a flash and a tele after that and finally a decent macro lens if one realizes he's into macro and voila a perfect near professional setup.
Bottom line everyone (at least with serious intentions about photography) will move into DSLRS eventually especially with the prices dropping due to severe competition (the Sony DSLR is for less than 700 usd and expected to drop, Nikon D50 is cheap and decent body to have, Canon DSLRs are not that expensive too...)
So basically I would suggest buying things slowly however not buying something that will be totally limiting like a point and shoot. I'm not saying it won't give decent results however if you buy a Dslr body you only have to get additional lenses over time however with a P&S you still have to begin from the start by buying a DSLR body.

IBASSFSH

08/13/2006, 01:14 AM

Do they make adapters like that to fit the Canon Powershot S20? Until I can come up with the cash to bnuy a new one thats what I have.

smokez01

08/14/2006, 10:50 PM

very good information on this thread, thank you so much! it is definatly helping me to choose a camera

mcox33

08/24/2006, 07:40 PM

I have the Canon Rebel XT Digital and just bought my husband the Canon PowerShot A540 and His takes some really great pictures as well. And his camera with extra lens, filters and camera bags was just under $400.00 . It was New sealed in the box. E-Bay Rules. LOL

Emster

11/05/2007, 08:01 PM

I just came back to this thread it has so much good info. I'm still looking at new cameras and thinking of the canon a720is or the 570 is. I believe they are both under $200.00 each and both of them can add on lenses.

Emster

11/05/2007, 08:20 PM

Just wanted to share some of my pics in this thread.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1120989

These were taken with a cheap point and shoot Olympus FE-110 with no lens adaptors. I can't wait to get my new camera.

Shooter7

11/09/2007, 11:21 PM

Thanks a lot for bringing this thread back up. Just spent awhile reading the whole thing as I'm currently looking for a camera myself in the same price range as the OP. My mind has been getting clouded by all the info on dpreview, as well as the temptations of cameras like the rebels and D40's. I just want to have a camera that is good for general family pics, but I would like to get some really good close up pics of my corals ranging from a few inches inside the glass to around 18 inches from the front glass. A lot of info here regarding the add on adaptors and lenses as well. I'm trying to figure out what would best do the job for me, with me not spending more than I really need to. For example, the new G9 is looking nice, but a hefty price tag for a P&S, and I'm wondering if I might do just as well or even better with a cheaper camera and add on lenses. I'm actually still getting really good general pictures with my Nikon Coolpix 3200, but can't do squat with tank shots much.