Naming Zoanthids?

[smp]

Sorry if this sounds inflammatory to anyone, but what's the point of naming zoos?
Personally, I hate half the names and when I keep seeing very nice looking zoos being referred to in cheesy ways it hurts me!
Also, there is so much confusion half the time about what is what that it makes it almost moot.


What's wrong with simply describing them? Green skirt with peach centers .. etc
seems simpler, no?
I guess at one time it was special zoos that got named, but now every single type has 4 names and people are inventing names for their zoos left right and center.
Anyways, if I'm wrong feel free to straighten me out.

[Dubbin1]

Fancy names make people feel better about what the have :) Really though, naming them makes it easier to ID.

[smp]

That's what I mean.
I don't think it's easier to ID, I think it complicates it.
The names are based on the colour .. why not just call it a "purple zoanthid", or "green skirt, green center" or whatever, that's more descriptive than half the names I see out there.
I'm gonna name my favourite zoos in my tank "whiny bastards" :D
(after me)

[Dubbin1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6511587#post6511587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
That's what I mean.
I don't think it's easier to ID, I think it complicates it.
The names are based on the colour .. why not just call it a "purple zoanthid", or "green skirt, green center" or whatever, that's more descriptive than half the names I see out there.
I'm gonna name my favourite zoos in my tank "whiny bastards" :D
(after me)

Well since there are many purple zoas that are completely different from other purple zoas then your way won't work. Same goes with every other color.

[AIMFish]

If anyone is familiar with FW plecos there is a neat way they have those classified, other than thru scientific names. It's the L system. You could say I have an L-34 and I'm looking for a L-29, then everyone could go to there book and see the exact specimen you have and what you want. I agree on the common names being more confusing, with everyone just making there own there is no consistency. Someone that has enough authority in the subject of zoo's just needs to sit down and code each one and make it the standard by which all are judged and recognized. If someone does this it would have to use Z #'s of course!!

[smp]

I don't know. I have 7 different types of zoos in my tank and the desire to know what people are calling them has never presented itself. I just call them all 'pretty'.
What I'm asking, if I'm asking anything .. is how is it useful to ID them?
I understand wanting to ID whether it's a palythoa or a zoanthid or you know, for the sake of knowing how to care for them, but anything further than that.. ?
The ID tells you what colour it is, which you already know just by looking at it .. does it tell you anything else?
I guess I'm missing something.
Again, I'm not trying to be a bastard, it's just an innate characteristic :(

[Dubbin1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6511705#post6511705 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
I don't know. I have 7 different types of zoos in my tank
Oh thats why you don't understand it. You have to have more then 10 different types before you want names for them :D

[whodah]

here is why i like naming zoas (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=741278&highlight=whodah). :D

[smp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6511866#post6511866 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by whodah
here is why i like naming zoas (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=741278&highlight=whodah). :D

Thanks, good post and Calfo's article was a good lunch time read.
I didn't consider the whole trading scenario, that's definitely a plus on the side of naming. I still don't like half the names I see though :P
Also, I'm now out on a mission to name my own Zoos .. "Whiny Bastards", I just have to find some that aren't named yet that look appropriate :D

[Dubbin1]

LOL in the last 2hrs you went from being a "Whiny Bastard" to naming your zoas :lol:

[smp]

Hey, I just thought of another reason that naming zoos might be important .. I'm curious where my zoos come from!
I've always liked to know where any animal that I keep (and I've kept lots) comes from, that's part of the interest for me. I'm gonna go see if zoaid.com mentions this...

[smp]

Okay here's a perfect example of a beautiful specimen with a super annoying name!!!

http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=pnGallery2&func=main&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=879

no offence to anyone that may have named it .. (intentionally anyway)

[smp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6512413#post6512413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
LOL in the last 2hrs you went from being a "Whiny Bastard" to naming your zoas :lol:

Guilty.

Okay, so I don't see any of the zoos that I have over at Zoaid.com.
Is it safe to assume that I can bastardize away?

[MUCHO REEF]

With all due respect, and I mean this as nicely as possible, there are many reasons why I am against naming zoos. I'm not cutting anyone down for doing it, and I wouldn't say one bad thing about anyone who does. Here's what I have seen over the past year that supports my stand along with why I feel the way I do. Naming zoos is great for the people who enjoy it, but I just happen to feel completely different about the whole name game, here's why.

1. I have actually watched 2 reefers argue over the name of a zoanthid. I mean they almost came to blows over, " A NAME". Why? I won't call the name in question, but Reefer A thought he was getting one thing, and Reefer B sold him something that wasn't what Reefer A thought it was. A week had past when Reefer A was told by Reefer C that the colony wasn't what Reefer B told Reefer A it was. Now here's the funny thing, both Reefer A and B, couldn't keep anything alive in their tanks. Both knew nothing about husbandry or water Chemistry. Both of their tanks looked like a swamp, diatoms everywhere, cyano on the substrate and thick green hair algae, yet here they were arguing over a name. Both had killed at least a dozen colonies of exceptional zooanthids.

I have spoken with one or two reefers in this forum, who can't get their zoos to multiply, their zoos continue to lose coloration, they have poor expansion, their zoos are always sick or simply collapsing on a weekly bases, yet they argue with me over the name of a polyp. Now I know I'm going to get my throat cut over this, but this is the truth. I'm into educating, ldiscovery, learning and sharing the knowledge that will promote a prospering system. I know it's fun to name them, but far too much emphasis is being placed on a name, and not on education. I've yet to see weekly discussions to enlighten the forum on what someone has discovered, experienced, how and what they did to consistently improve the appearance and overall health of their collection. I've yet to see what common or new and innovative "things" someone has tried that has improved the health of their zoos.

2. A name is what is being used both online and in LFS to rip a lot of unsuspecting reefers off, including a lot of newbies. I have seen it more times than I can count. I have watch LFS tell an unsuspecting reefer, " OH, these are the real deal. They are call Kamikaze Reds, they are extremely rare and very very expensive. But I'll cut you a deal. 10 polyps for $ 80". This is what the name game has done. Now here's the killer, the zoos weren't even red, they were orange, under heavy actinics, but the buyers was hyped by the sellers word game. I know that naming was a positive thing, but others have used it for gain. Others find it simply enjoyable to name them, and that's cool. However, at the same time, there are reefers who won't take a hot minute to read or research what it takes to maintain a happy and healthy zoo colony. I don't understand that. Now I know if my name was Calfo or Dr. Photoperiod, someone would see what I'm trying to convery. And no, there's not an arrogant nor cocky bone in my body. From my heart I just want us to be able to grow, keep, cultivate and propagate consistantly healthy corals. This is where I think the real focus should be directed.

3. Naming zoos would be great if there was a universal nomenclature ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/nomenclature ) that designates them all. That will never happen, therefore, you will always have reefers arguing over a name, reefers being ripped off because of a name as well as misrepresentation.

4. It's one of the reasons I stopped selling zoos. I sent 4 frags to L.A., a few years ago. I sent pics before hand along with a detailed description. Once they arrived, I was questioned about the names of the zoos. My response, well since I didn't discover them, I didn't feel the need to assign a name. His reply, well he said the first frag was a "Moody Blue", the second was a " Kawasaki Orange", I forgot the two other names. He never mentioned the deal that I gave him. He never said thank you, he never even noticed that I gave him twice the number of polyps at no extra cost. Bottom line, he was more concerned with the name, than anything else. Two weeks later, he emailed me. He stated not only were the zoos I sent him looking bad, but all of his zoos were in trouble. I sent him a list of 10 things to check. Everything was fine, then I ask a few more questions, and told him to get a volt meter. Sure enough, he had crazy stray voltage. It was at this time that he noticed his fish were hiding. He placed his hand in his take and -Bizzzzzzzzzzzzz....electricity. He lost everything as it was present for some time. He didn't notice it because he used rubber gloves when he worker in his tank. And to think, he placed more emphasis on a name, then he did on the stray voltage which wiped out his tank.

5. Finally, a couple years ago, I had this crazy color growing in my tank. I sold one frag to a local reefer. Within two weeks, someone had attached my name to the title and name of this morph. Yes, it was called "Mucho's - - - - - Zooanthid. LOL

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, it's just my opinion and my opinion alone. Naming zoos is fun and the names are very unique. I simply choose to focus on other areas that will sustain the zoo keepers long after all the unique names have been exhausted.

Great site Whodah.

Mucho

[whodah]

lol - well, i'm not gonna disagree that i like some zoa names better than others...

i'm more of a 'testarossa' namer than a '911' namer myself ;) (not that i dislike either car of course!)

but hey, i'm guilty of naming the 'is it nippy in here? (http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=pnGallery2&func=main&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=771)' http://whodah.com/smilies/icon_lmao.gif

as for the origin: when supplied, the origin is definitely added! an example:
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=pnGallery2&func=main&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=920

(note the 'Origin' of 'Bali')

eventually i'll make those that do not have origins listed say something like:
Origin: Unknown! contact me if you know!

similar to the few named zoas that don't have the original namer listed. (i.e. the 'eagle eyes (http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=pnGallery2&func=main&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=80)' - no clue who named them originally!)

lastly - of course you can call whatever zoa whatever you like as can anyone else! :D

if yer asking about putting them up on ZoaID.com - there's only a few easy criteria (descent shot, no name overlapping, etc.) and
then they'll get put up! there's a 'Submit a Zoa' link on the left hand menu. enjoy! :)

[whodah]

hey mucho!

all friends here, right? :) i remember you saying we can disagree and still be friends! :)

1. sounds more like a problem w/ reefer A and B then a zoa naming problem...

2. sounds more like a problem w/ a dishonest vendor than a naming problem... they could do the same thing by saying "the rare super duper bright red ones! i swear, this is the only red one like it!", no?

3. not gonna disagree there w/ a universal naming system! it's a good idea! IMHO a little less fun, but i'm not opposed to it at all. someone posted that it would be nifty to see a universal diagram on how to name them based on color - i'm currently working on such thing and will hopefully have several people help me w/ it as well. perhaps then we can come up w/ a standard and a fun name? :)

4. again - more like a problem w/ the reefer then a zoa naming problem...

sooooooooo many of these naming problems are ignorance (NOT meant in a demeaning way!) or dishonesty. but i argue this: w/out naming it 'safecracker', these dishonest acts would still exist - just by stating "the uber OMG rare you must have to complete your life's purpose red and blue ones!"

thoughts? hit me back! :D

/edit: wanted to clarify the term 'ignorance' in a non-demeaning way!!!

[MUCHO REEF]

Not really, LOL. The bottom line is, more focus is being placed on a name, and not enought focus or education on keeping them alive and well. The point with # 1 is this. Reefer A was calling it one name, reefer B saw it referred to on another site as another name. They weren't necessarily arguing over the zoos, they were arguing over the names they were given in reference to them.

Regarding # 2, a name is so often used for hype, I'm sure you know that. I wasn't referring to the LFS, I'm more concerned with the newbie who was ripped off as he or she became hyped over a NAME. The same with # 4, THE NAME, the name is his only concern, nothing else. His focus was having a NAME of something he saw somewhere online. Why? So he could say he had it in his tank also.

LOL, sure, we can agree to disagree, and I'm glad we can do it like gentlmen. And yes, LOL, we're still FRIENDS good buddy.

Mucho

[whodah]

friends: w00t! i knew that going into it, just wanted others to see that so they know we're not at each others throats, heh! :) nothing but <3

so - take naming out. blam, gone. no more naming. what zoa is that? the red one. cause it has no name. :)

do we still agree that there will always be the latest and greatest hottest coral out there? (setting aside whether you personally think there is or should be... i'm asking in general. the latest acan, the latest monti, the latest zoa...) i'm saying that there will always be the latest and greatest 'purple and green' zoa whether it has a name or not.

let's assume we do agree - or at least approach it from that angle a sec (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong btw!). people post a pic, or sell a zoa in a flattering way and people, like wildfire, desire the 'purple and green' one. thus demand goes up, prices go down... er wait... prices go up... ;)

so - dishonesty goes away? people start focusing more on their tanks rather than their acquisitions? people start focusing on the care of the animals more and less on latest hot 'purple number 2' zoa?

i just think that 'naming a zoa' gets too bad of a wrap. whether it's named or not, i personally think these other issues would exist.

and don't mistake this for me discrediting the need for focusing on tanks, well being of livestock, propogating, etc.. just that naming zoas rather than an exclusive color description is not where the finger needs to be pointed for these problems IMHO ;)

[Jovreefer]

Ok...I'm gonna have to side with naming them. I think just like whodah says, its so much easier to discribe them with a name. I would never buy something just for the name though, and if people do then they are going to be setup for alot of disapointment in their life. I went to a fellow reefers house to get a frag of Fire and ice zoa's (lets face it...they are stunning, name or not!) and getting there I told him they were definatly not fire and ice...he got very mad and then GAVE me the whole colony, he did not want them because they were not "fire and ice" I thought they were very nice...name or not...took them & re-named them fire in the sky. Was he crazy for giving them up because they were not what he thought....YES, you should have the zoa because you like it not a name. Was I crazy for re-naming them...I personally dont think so, I think the name fits :)

Also look on the SPS side of things...people pay $100+ for a frag of anything from Tyree when there is identical pieces out there for lots less. Its not just us zoa people who name things :p

[smp]

Mucho kind of described my initial concern ... mine is more general.
Hype, just like with clothes.
You can buy a hooded sweater with no logo on it for 20 bucks .. it's all black and looks nice, 100% cotton .. good stuff!
You can buy a hooded sweater with a logo on it that is otherwise the same as the previous one and it'll be 60 dollars.

The people who buy the 20 dollar sweater feel like they have an inferior product. The people naming both the zoos and the sweater are the same, they are increasing importance.
If some newb doesn't see his zoa on Zoaid.com then he thinks it's not special.
The problem isn't just the naming, it's the attitude that our culture has to value .. people can't just like it because it's pretty, they have to feel like they have something that other people don't. Creativity and freedom of thought is what's lacking, naming isn't the problem it's the symptom :)

I wear unbranded clothes BTW :D

[smp]

And tonight when I get home (if I remember to) I'll be taking a snap of some of my zoos and naming them over at Zoaid.com .. just to prove how arbitrary it all is!

And no, in my previous post I wasn't alluding that people who name zoos are driving the price up for personal gain, but that does happen as a side effect.
I got a frag of REALLY REALLY nice green (like flourescent) zoos just yesterday, I don't know what they're called but they were cheaper than another frag the guy was selling that was purple and not as nice. It's weird, to me .. the nicer zoos were cheaper, why???
It's our screwed up perspective on value.

[MUCHO REEF]

Something I learned in Economics 101 many years ago. Supply & Demand, it will always be there.

Yes, there will always be the newest, the latest and the greatest. There's a new one coming in the next couple of weeks/months. Just wait, you'll hear all about it, LOL.

Maybe I shouldn't say that I am against naming, I just think there are more important zoo related issues that zoo keepers should be just as if not more concerned and preoccupied with. I keep envisioning a reefer somewhere saying, "this is a pic of my "Dynomite Reds" that I use to have. I couldn't keep them alive, but I have pics and a name for them". I just see things differently sometimes, that's all. No harm done.

I think there's a question in the zoo forum now about a name.

You're right Jovreefer, it's easy to describe them with a name. Only if everyone in the country is using Zoaid and using the same names. I've seen so many zoos on Zoaid with different names in different regions of the country. That's all I'm saying. If the Nomenclature was consistant throughout the world, which we know will be impossible, I might think differently. But what do I know, I'm just a reefer, LOL.

Great disscussion though, I'll allow you guys to have the last word here. Thanks again, and it was good to have a healthy discussion and share our opinions like men.

Mooch

PS,

"Also look on the SPS side of things...people pay $100+ for a frag of anything from Tyree when there is identical pieces out there for lots less. Its not just us zoa people who name things "

I agree, but unless I dive to the floor of the deep blue and discover the first one of anything for the first time, I can't place my name on it. I can say that I found them, but I can never say they're "Mucho's Gilligan Island Green Zoanthids", LOL.

Chow

[Jovreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513579#post6513579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF

Great disscussion though, I'll allow you guys to have the last word here. Thanks again, and it was good to have a healthy discussion and share our opinions like men.

And WOMEN! ;)

[Jovreefer]

I have to disagree with the "if it has a name its gonna be more expensive" statement. I've not seen many zoa's on zoaID actually sell for more than if they were not named. Except maybe Reds, true blues, & PPE's, I admit...I sell them...and its not a cheap price tag (not nearly the $250 for 2 polyps :eek: as seen on ebay but still high) They are higher price because A) they are hard to find & B) they grow slower than a snails pace and I think both command a decent price tag.

I think thats the main concern for people with naming things, they think that because they have a name they are gonna be really expensive. When really....even if the hard to find & slow growing colors were not named, they'd stil have a high price tag. There probably would not be AS many newbies Rushing to get the latest fad coral, so not AS much demand...but I dont think it would really effect the price of the hard to find colors at all.

All just my personal oppinion here :D

[whodah]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513334#post6513334 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
If some newb doesn't see his zoa on Zoaid.com then he thinks it's not special.

they should submit it! there's no discrimination on the site other than a clear shot and a unique name! :) i've had to ask a couple peeps to reshoot because nobody can identify by name or pattern a blurry zoa, heh! and numerous submissions i've sent an email back saying: they kinda look like ______ which are already on this site. do you agree? and if so, i'm uber happy to add your pic to that zoa as it's extremely beneficial to see how they change/morph under lights/tank-parameters. if you disagree, i'll add it as a newly named zoa.

so far - this hasn't failed and i've gone both ways based on their reply. the only error (that i know of) is possibly the keddsredds in which i'm getting in contact w/ the picture submitters to iron it out.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513364#post6513364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
And tonight when I get home (if I remember to) I'll be taking a snap of some of my zoos and naming them over at Zoaid.com .. just to prove how arbitrary it all is!

are gorilla nipples (http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=pnGallery2&func=main&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=180) not proof enough? :P ;) i hope your intentions are not to belittle the site...


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513579#post6513579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF
Maybe I shouldn't say that I am against naming, I just think there are more important zoo related issues that zoo keepers should be just as if not more concerned and preoccupied with.

that i 100% agree with! :D

and wanted to mention that i'm hoping ZoaID will offer a lot more to this end in the future! although a small start, i think the predator/imitator gallery portion of ZoaID is a small example of this.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513579#post6513579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF
Great discussion though, I'll allow you guys to have the last word here. Thanks again, and it was good to have a healthy discussion and share our opinions like men.

please reply if you have more to say! i too think this is a very healthy discussion! :D

on a related note: i'm personally ALWAYS open to more ideas on the topic! the idea mentioned above about coming up w/ a universal naming system i thought was awesome! i put ideas into place all the time that i don't think are good nor agree with - but keep an open mind as to their benefit and/or what the public wants vs. what i want myself. i've asked a few people for help and a some have helped, some politely declined - which is totally fine! but i'm always open to new ideas and implementations of those ideas.

as always, i'd also like to say that i'm not trying to defend the entity ZoaID.com (even as webmaster). just defending naming zoas which of course is intimately intertwined w/ ZoaID.com - hence me pointing out the distinction. :D by no means am i a zoanthid expert, heck, i'm a n00b. just a guy who knows how to program ;)

[smp]

Since when was making a web site "programming"?
:P


I like the name "gorilla's nipples".
Thing is, if those ever appeared in an LFS here in Toronto, Canada .. they wouldn't call them that.
I'm on board with the consistency sentiment expressed by Mucho is basically what I'm saying.

[whodah]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6515060#post6515060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
Since when was making a web site "programming"?
:P

oh no you didn't, OH NO YOU DIDN'T!

ha ha! fair enough! ;)

[CoralNutz]

I don't want to get really into the discussion as I can see good points on both sides. So just two comments from me. :)

1. IMO, not EVERY zoa/paly needs to, or should be named. I cannot beleive how many threads lately with titles like this, "Do these have a name" Seems like every other thread lately and lots of them seem to be just common zoas that IMO, don't really warrant a name. I realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and am not trying to imply that anyones zoas are better than anyone elses, but do brown zoas with tan mouths and a little green on them really need a name? :lol:

2. There should be way more consistency with the naming. IMO, there are lots of doubles that are the same thing under different lighting. There are some that are completely different species of corals listed as the same name. I think all zoas submited should include a picture with tank lighting and a picture with camera flash so you can get a truer representation of what colors truly are. 20K and actinics mixed with digital photography can be very decieving. Maybe you need to come up with some high council of zoanthid naming elders or something. :lol:

[smp]

Maybe you need to come up with some high council of zoanthid naming elders or something. :lol:

DIBS!
I got my first frags like six whole weeks ago! I'm SO IN ON THIS!!!

[surfnvb7]

wow, so many great points here....

i'm kinda torn b/w both sides though.

1- its fun to name zoas, name them whatever you like blah blah blah.

2- i'm sorry if this offends anyone, but seriously.......some people are either so blind, or so ignorant when trying to match colors of certain polyps so they can name their zoas. alot of this misconception can be from computer monitors and digital cameras that don't represent the true colors our eyes perceive.

3- although, here is my BIGGEST gripe. alot of people are trying to pass off similar looking zoas as named that don't look like anything like what the real ones were named after. (whether this is intentional or unintentional...its a big problem).

most notably, we have seen it on some interenet stores, and people selling them in the selling forum.

my biggest issue, is some certain LFS who are trying to name them, then UP the cost of them big time b/c they think they have something "rare" that came off of one of their supplier shipments that looks "similar" to what X-employee saw on this forum where people were saying this polyp is worth Y-amount of dollars. In some cases, the zoas they named and were trying to sell didn't look anything like what the named zoa polyp looked like on zoaid or in this forum.

4- I have seen different LFS sells zoas differenty. luckily, my local store sells all zoas colors the same price, its purely based on the number of polyps. this obviously has to do with how the supplier sells them to them.

the best way i have seen a LFS store sell zoas, and even when they have some more of the *rarer* variety, is to just name them by color. and if blue zoas are in short supply but high demand in the area, they justify a higher price accordingly (i have no problem with this). common ones for a certain area are a cheaper price, again designated by color, NOT by name.

i've even heard a store manager admitted, that there are so many different color varieties of zoas coming in from suppliers, that naming them all is almost impossible, and pretty much pointless to go to all of that work to make more money, while decieving customers. people that have no experience in this forum, or any forum for that matter, are going to buy a zoanthid based on the color, not the name....

thus, even though the naming gimmick is fun for the experienced hobbiest, the marketing/business people have taken off with this so they can make a profit off of it which i think is sad.........but that is the way of the times apparently.

with all of that said, for now on.......the only things i will name are "People Eater" type of polyps. which are so easily distinguishable by the green mouth.

other than that, I don't care what safecrackers are, or purple hearted whatevers......cuz i think i have zoas that are much nicer than those anyways.

no offense to you though whodah, i still love your site, so much eye candy to look at. just don't assign any monetary value to each zoa or things will get sooooooooo out of control. :lol:

with all due respect to whodah, and whether some people want to hear this or not........the naming issue HAS driven up prices of some things since I've been watching for well over a year. therefore, i think we need to all sit back, and justify if having fun by naming these zoas (for the hobbiest enjoyment), is really worth the exploitation of our hobby (which the business people are obviously taking advantage of).

I for one, think this hobby is already expensive enough, and I don't think people in this hobby should be taken advantage of by this kind of price gouging practice.

and lastly, if a zoa, or any other *rare* coral comes along and has a name given to it, it should be named after that person, that way that particular strain can be tracked so you KNOW you are getting the real deal. I'm thinking of examples like the "Atlantis Aquarium Superman Danae", "Tyree Limited Editions", "Garf Bonsai"........see what I'm getting at?

safecracker zoas were named after a person, unless you got them from that guy, or got them from a guy who got them from him, YOU DONT HAVE SAFECRACKERS.

i'm sure everyone has opinions, but in all seriousness, this makes the most logical sense to me. sorry for the long rant, everyone got theirs in so i felt left out :lol:

[surfnvb7]

Whoda – here is my suggestion to “re-vamp” the system that has started a lot of controversy.

I think, that instead of just making one general pages of zoas, and naming each one some creative name….do a bit of restructuring so to speak.

Break them down into subcatagories, group all varieties of blues into one category, then green, then reds, then purples, then yellows etc etc etc.

Then show all different kinds of zoas that have a primary color under that subcategory. Then you can give them whatever names/aliases people have come up with under that zoa. So if someone lists a certain zoa under the “blue” category, people can list all of the kinds of crazy names under that picture that they came up with for their own zoa(s) that looks similar to that picture.

Other categories (that are far more interesting IMO), are categories that are based on how many different tones of color are in a zoanthid. Like a group for 3 toned zoanthids, 4 toned zoanthids, 5 tone zoanthids etc. and again, post a pic of a zoa, and then others can post similar pics of that zoa and give multiple names for that zoa. You can obviously repeat pics of zoas from the previous color coded categories in here.

The point here, is to take the emphasis off the naming of the zoas, and instead placing the priority on the types of color combinations.

Lastly, you can add some “special” categories, such as…

Since sooooooooo many people seem to ask “what is a people eater” and get it soooo confused, create a group for those that lists all different kinds of people eaters. Show a picture diagram that shows what the green mouth looks like, versus just a small green center. And again with the option of each picture of a people eater having different names or aliases listed below.

Lastly, create a “HOT” category, reserved for zoas that are very HOT and in high demand on the market right now, and that have been named after a certain individual (if given permission, Tyree / GARF / Atlantis to name a few examples). Make sure to note that this zoa is a specific strain, and if you did not get it from this person, or a person who got it from this person, than you don’t have it. (using the safecrackers example). HOWEVER, this category should be used with very high restraint.....or else every zoanthid on zoaid will end up in this category, as I can vouch for everyone when I say "I WANT THEM ALL!!" ;) I'm thinking things like, PPE's, PHE's, Tubs Blue Zoas (THE REAL DEAL)......Zoas that have become truely famous after a year or more, and not just some short fad or a colony that only one person is holding on to and never trading.

So again, different zoas have such slight variations, to which there are sooooooooo many look-a-likes now out there. We need to be able to separate the look-a-likes out from the true strains that came from a specific person. I think using a picture, or group of similar pictures of the same zoa, and listing a large list of aliases is the only way to keep people from either intentionally or unintentionally trying to rip-off a hobbyist. So, again, naming is fun…..and lets leave it at that………the true point of buying a zoa should not be based on the name, but on the color…..therefore creating a picture dedicated to included aliases and look-a-likes, seems only fair to counter this problem.

I hope this helps, sorry……just had to get it off my mind.
I think this would be a great alternative, and would satisify both parties so people can name whatever zoa and its look-a-like whatever they want, but with that showing all of the aliases, while also keeping a good structure showing what types of color combinations are more promanent than others.

I agree with everything MUCHO has said here, and I have a strange feeling he would kinda like this method also... ;)

[whodah]

interesting ideas and reading! i'd definetly need a 'high council of zoanthid naming elders' to implement such things, ha!

in all seriousness: excellent ideas, and the 'elders' idea i like too! i like the idea of spreading the 'burden' around like that, heh!

i was thinking on the commute today on the 'universal naming system' to where a group of peeps, the 'elders' as we're joking about would each independently describe the zoa as per pre-set criteria.

say there's 5 'elders' or whatever.

compare the 5 independent descriptions and come up w/ a concensus. in the case of conflict, majority rules or something.

i was starring at my zoas last night and was thinking that this is no trivial matter...

mouth (like in PPE)
center dot (like in gorilla nipples)
rings (like in eagle eyes)
dust (like in mohawks)
speckles (like in .... oh, one doesn't come to mind immediatly, but know....)
skirts - multicolor, striped, etc.
splotches
lines
...

it'd be a fun task! :D

[JnS]

with respect to everyone.....


naming some premium zoa's that not everyone has is not bad, but I agree with a lot of others that not every zoa needs to have a name.

common zoa's are just that common.

manipulate the color with lights and making a new name just does not do it for me......just seems like a marketing ploy to me.

also to say any one site or any one person knows about every zoa out there is just plain ignorant.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Just an FYI

When I got a chance to visit a big named wholesalers to do a little shopping, all of the zoa's were in one bin. Same price for each rock no matter what the color was or how big or small. They just don't break it down that far as some people do. And they did have some of the "named" zoa's in the tank. ;)

As for naming them, if you feel you must, then go ahead. The only "problem" I have with placing any type of name/LE/Rare type of moniker is that people will then use that to up the price and take advantage of people.

Come on people, these all came from the ocean at one point in time so calling them something dosen't really mean much. If you have to add a name/LE/rare to it just to sell it, then in MY OPNION, your just out to make a fast buck.

Also I've seen in my own tanks how zoa's will change colrs under differen't lights. Example is some pink centered zoa's I got one day. In my main display, 220W of atinic PC and 175W XM 10K MH they were a nice lavender colored. When I moved some into my growout sump w/ 150 W Phoinex 14K DE MH, they were a nice peach colored. Big difference in colors. I also had some that the guy I got them from called them bullseyes that darkened up a lot when moved to the sump.

As for my Zoas, I have some of the "named" ones and some that aren't "named" but look a lot better. As for the selling or trading of them, I'd rather trade you one for one than sell them. That way I can get more variety in my tank. If I have to sell, It's usually 1 buck a poylop, no more, no less, no matter what the color is. But that's just me. ;)

I enjoy my tank and don't mind shareing what I have been able to grow. Heck, I even held a Xmas raffel at our club meeting and made sure everyone left with at least 2 zoa frags from my tank. :D