View Full Version : Flame Angel with Popeye. 3rd day. Is it terminal Doctor?
01/16/2006, 05:54 PM
I have a newly acquired Flame Angel (about 2") that has been in QT for a little over a week. On Sunday, I discovered it has popeye and it is cloudy. I administered Epsom Salt to start recovery. On the third day, it doesn't appear to have improved. I did even mor and most feel it is bacterial and not caused by injury.
This morning I saw he was 'stuck' to the power filter intake but freed himself easily. He is acting normally and eating normally. But seeing him stuck to the power filter didn't look encouraging.
So my question is: After a fish gets popeye (bacterial), how long before the fish will suffer serious or non-reversible consequences?
I know today I need to get the proper meds, but can it be the end for him already?
Water parameters are good, but nitrates were 20ppm before a 50% water change yesterday. I've been changing water 10-15% every other day.
Dammit Jim! Get me a doctor and let him last just a little longer!
I don't know that there's a fixed answer to "how long". However, since it's in quarantine and you feel it's not improving, an antibiotic is probably the right answer. I suggest Maracyn-Two or nitrofurazone.
I don't worry about nitrates in QT, but you should monitor ammonia carefully.
01/17/2006, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the reply SAT. I went to the LFS and they sold me the japanese version of Malachite Green which is obviously for parasites and not for bacteria. Glad I had the g/f research what it was before I adminsitered it. I ordered some Maracyn 2 from the states but I can only hope it gets here quickly.
I can tell the fish is uncomfortable with it as he will always have the good eye facing the front of thr tank to see who is there. He is still eating very well and looks good. I am still not sure what to think of the incident of being stuck to the power filter intake.
01/18/2006, 12:15 AM
Sorry to hear about the eye!
Usually Flame Angels are strong enough to keep from getting stuck in an intake. How strong of flow do you have? Perhaps you could throttle it down so the little guy doesn't get overworked?
01/18/2006, 01:13 AM
I know someone out this is advocating the use of epsom salts for popeye. That treatment is for freshwater fish. Epsom salt is magnesium and saltwater fish already have a large amount of it in the water.
Injury to the eye due to netting is often the cause of popeye. If the eye is not cloudy then it may be just swelling that will resolve with time. A large water change with well aged and aerated saltwater is often all that is needed. If the eye is cloudy then it may have a bacterial infection. An injury to the eye can lead to a bacterial infection. Don't net fish.
The fish getting stuck to the pump concerns me because it indicates that the fish is weak and may be ill. It is encouraging that the fish is eating and behaving normally. Have you considered that the water pump may have too much flow for the fish?
Maracyn-Two is a good choice of antibiotic for eye infections, but you may see the swelling go down in a few days. Popeye can be caused by things other than injury and bacterial infection, but the eye usually does't swell up in just a day. If the popeye came on suddenly then I would tend to think it is from injury.
01/18/2006, 01:44 AM
Thanks for the replies! From what I've read, Maracyn II (2) seems to be a popular product used for popeye. I do hope it gets here very soon. My g/f tried looking all over Japan but we couldn't find any.
I watched the fish for about an hour today after school. The eye has not improved but appears worse. The fish is almost blind in that eye. Will gently bump into things (into glass, heater cord, power filter intake, magnetic acrylic cleaner). The other eyes look perfect.
Here's something I noticed. It now appears that he has a white (cloudy) disk over his eye. I wish I had my camera to take a picture, but I will tomorrow. The reason I say a cloudy disk is that the center point has a very white dot. I figured if it was IN the eye, the outer eye would still look smooth, but in this case, it comes to a point at the dot. I almost want to reach in and run my finger over his eye to pop the disk off (but I won't).
Are there sharp objects in the tank? Well, yes. I took some small broken pieces of LR and added it for him to pick on. Well, when I did a 10% water change today, I noticed there are a few VERY sharp edges. I feel bad I didn't check this before adding it.
The power filter is a Millenium 2000. Not very powerful at all. I think he might have gotten a fin caught in the screen while he was scrounging for food.
Thanks for the help everyone! Will you keep you all updated. As soon as I can search again, will see if a white disk has been seen before or if it is part of an injured eye recovery.
01/18/2006, 01:50 AM
The popeye came on quite quickly actually. Maybe 1 day...2 days it was full blown puffy and cloudy. Today it appears (see above reply) . different so maybe it is just recovering.
01/22/2006, 12:34 AM
Well, I came to school today to do another 20% water change and this time, the angel was stuck to the power filter intake for good. I pulled her away, she did a few final surges, and that was it. I put her in a ziplock with some tank water and placed her in the freezer.
Some observations on the final days:
Eating well, however didn't care for food that had been in the tank for more than 30 minutes (I would vacuum it out)
Really favoring the good eye (would always have the good eye facing the front of the tank)
Didn't forage for food as well.
Hid behind power filter lip near surface a lot.
Looked really skinny the day she passed away.
Ammonia and Nitrites were both 0...Nitrates around 10ppm. 15-20% water change every other day with aged synthentic water.
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