dc4 and x10

[rus]

is it possible to run x10 and a dc4 from an aq3 if you are running them on different circuits


thanks -Russ

[rus]

any ideas on this?

[kattner]

yes, plug the x10 into the "out" plug on the DC4 so it daisy chains to the X10. You have to hook the DC4 to the AC3 and then the X10 controller to the DC4.

[rus]

thanks Kattner , this is what i thought , so from there i could run as many x 10 controlled devices as my controller would allow

what if this is done using more than one breaker , does this have any effect on one should set this up , i have 3 circiuts in my fish room with plugs located near devices that i'm using so i don't paticularly want to have a dc4 plug at every device which is why i was hoping to run both types for my system


thanks -Russ

[Aquaduck]

If power is lost to one DC4 in the daisy chain the X-10 signals will stop at the DC4 with no power and not reach other DC4's on other circuits. Each DC4 has to have power to re-transmit X-10 commands to the next DC4 or powerline interface module.

I'm thinking of modifying my DC4's so that the control power is supplied from a separate circuit. My DC4's would then have two power cords coming out. One low power for X-10 control to keep the transmit and receive signals alive and the other for switching the power outlets..

[dougc]

If power is lost to one DC4 in the daisy chain the X-10 signals will stop at the DC4 with no power and not reach other DC4's on other circuits.

That is an Achilles Heel for the AquaControllers. I have two dedicated circuits for my tank and have redundant heaters and pumps on both circuits so that the loss of one circuit will not cause a disaster. I use two DC4s to control things on one circuit and X10 to control devices on the second circuit. Unfortunately, as you have noted, the DC4 stops passing signals to the X10 transmitter if the power fails on the circuit with the DC4s. It kind of ruins the effort to build redundancy into our systems.

Admittedly, the situation is no different when running only X10. If the circuit with the X10 transmitter loses power, nothing will be controlled, regardless of which circuit it is on.

This is only an issue if power is lost on the circuit with the DC4. If the main fuse in the DC4 blows, it is my understanding that the low-power control circuit has its own fuse and will continue to operate.

If the low-power circuit had it's own power supply, it could then be plugged into a UPS, similar to the secondary supply on the AC III.

[szwab]

can you split the control line one going to the DC4 and the other straight to the X10 module?

[Aquaduck]

I have heard from Neptune that you cannot split the phone cord. It must be daisy chained. Thus the reason for me wanting to have dual power sources on my DC4's.

[szwab]

that's abummer that would have been an easy fix :)

[rus]

will a daisy chained dc4 or x 10 running off 2 seperate circiuts in the same chain still work?


thnaks -Russ

[dougc]

It doesn't matter which circuit the DC4s or the powerline interface are on, since the control signals are passed through the RJ-11 cable that connects the boxes to each other.

[rus]

thanks , what if one circiut in the chain goes do you lose all power or only from the point of orgin of the tripped breaker? , if this were say a different breaker further along in the chain ?

thanks -Russ

[Aquaduck]

You will lose communication at the DC4 which has lost power. For example, you have three DC4's on three different breakers. Say the breaker trips which feeds power to the DC4 in the middle of the daisy chain....
The first in the chain will still continue to work. The middle and last one will not.

Say the breaker feeding the first DC4 trips....
All DC4's cease to operate.

Say the breaker feeding the last DC4 trips....
Only the last DC4 loses control. The two before it remain functional.

[Bumzyman]

I just started setting up my AQIII Pro tonight and saw this tread when I was just browsing around for ideas. I didn’t know about this limitation with the X10 control system before I purchased my setup but now that I know I'm wondering if it would be possible to supply a low voltage signal to all of the DC4's from a wall transformer (like the one that powers the ACIII)? This way, the wall transformer keeping the X10 signals alive in the DC’s could be plugged into the same UPS that keeps the ACIII going. I have 4 circuit breakers with a DC4 connected to each and I also use GFCI's in case a heater or something goes berserk, I’d hate to have a tripped GFCI supplying my first DC4 kill my whole control system.

The ACIII has a power and battery connector and I use both. The power is connected to a surge protector but the battery feed is connected to a UPS. I could just connect the single power connector from the UPS to the ACIII but connecting both lets me log when the power does go out in my house.

I'm thinking a small 1.8mm jack could be mounted in the DC4 to make a nice battery or aux power connector to keep the X10 signaling alive. It could be supplied by the same power pack that feeds the battery port of the ACIII or perhaps one with a little more mA.

Any thoughts?

[Bumzyman]

Bump

Anyone have any ideas about powering the X10 part of the DC unit with a backup power source?

[jnfallon]

bumping this back up.

I would also like to develop a workaround for this.

Has anyone actually TRIED splitting the rj-11 wire (hooking up in parallel rather than serial)?

[Bumzyman]

I picked up a spare DC4 to experiment with.

I’m going to try to add the backup power connector and possibly four miniature neon lamps to positively confirm when an outlet is powered on.

If I’m successful I’ll post the resulting pictures.

[SERVO]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6596591#post6596591 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by szwab
can you split the control line one going to the DC4 and the other straight to the X10 module?

Does anyone know why it is only recommended to have a limit of 10 feet to the phone cables daisy chaining the DC's together? I have a large fish room with an 8 foot long tank. Each important electronic input to my tank has a separate breaker in a designated fuse box. That means for me, I will need a bunch of DC's to hook up the system. I can't afford to buy 8 DC 4's or the equivalent, therefore I am going to use X10's. Don't you need a "master" control X10 to control the others? Prior to purchasing the ACIII, I wasn't educated about how to hook up the system and I am still stuggling to figure it out. (I have a 2 month old infant that is taking the rest of my time that prevents me from learning more)? Any advice?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6929425#post6929425 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bumzyman
I picked up a spare DC4 to experiment with.

I’m going to try to add the backup power connector and possibly four miniature neon lamps to positively confirm when an outlet is powered on.

If I’m successful I’ll post the resulting pictures.


any sucess?/pictures?

[szwab]

i believe the length is due to resistance and being able to transmit the signal in a reliable way. my guess the 10ft number is a conservative one.

[laurentm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6927678#post6927678 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnfallon
bumping this back up.

I would also like to develop a workaround for this.

Has anyone actually TRIED splitting the rj-11 wire (hooking up in parallel rather than serial)?

If you do that, make sure you do not connect the 2 'zero crossing detect' wires together. Only one should be connected, I would use the DC4's. Since both the DC4 and the PL513 are photo-coupled you should be ok connecting the grounds (it will be the AC's ground), but you might not have enough mA to drive both the DC4's and the PL513's signal input.

Take a look at this document (http://software.x10.com/pub/manuals/technicalnote.pdf) for the PL513 technical note. It also describe the x10 cable interface.

[ReefLurker]

New question: I plan on having my Controller in the basement where my sump is located. I'll be connecting it to my computer on the frist floor with some Cat5. I'll also need (2x) DC4's in my basement sump room as well as a DC4 on the first floor to run my lighting. If I must daisy chain the DC4's, does this mean I will have to connect the DC4 on the first floor to the DC4 in the basement with an extension cord?
Thanks,
Jeff

[clp]

Yes, the DC4s are daisy chained together through a telephone cord. The power for the two DC4s can be plugged into separate circuits.

Curt

[Bumzyman]

ReefLurker,
I'm doing sort of what you described now. I have my ACIIIPro and two DC4's in the basement fish room with another two DC4HD's up on the first floor to controll all my lights. There is about 25ft of Cat6 cable between the basement and first floor DC4's and it is pretty reliable except now and again one of my lights will come on and go off all by itself. I think this is due to noise from one of the basement DC4's which controlls my heaters since they tend to switch on and off pretty often. I have both DC4's on the first floor set to the A channel but I'm thinking of setting one to another channel to see if that fixes my problem.