Ecsenius blenny breeding / pairing

[mwp]

I've noticed a lot of progress being made in recent years in the breeding of Fang Blennies, but recently also noticed another species is being produced, the Combtooth Blenny Enchelyurus flavipes. Overall, it seems I've been finding a dirth of information on breeding either of these genera, let alone Ecsenius. I'm in a position to pick up Ecsenius graveri and start playing with that species; ultimately I'd love to work on breeding and rearing!

So, for now, question #1. Does ANYONE have any idea how I might form a pair, perhaps based on experiences pairing any other blenny types. Are we dealing with sequential hermaphrodites (please please please say yes ;) )? Knowing that these aren't exactly common fish, the current bank balance suggests I can purchase as many as 4 to work with, keeping them isolated from each other if need be via breeder nets, until I've gotten a pair, hopefully. I'm sure I'd have no issues relocating the mateless ones. Thoughts??????

Oh and please don't reply telling me to search the prior threads here - I can't ever get on that darn search engine!

MP

[rous]

hi,well ive been doing alot of research into breeding neon gobies and i did start researching blennies cos they last a bit longer and they do have character.
you can actually buy pairs but they are not cheap.
there is also a mention of buying 3 no more and hope that produces a pair.
hope this helps
dave

[NicoleC]

Some info here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=398478

[NicoleC]

Ooops, sorry, I was thinking E. bicolor. Still, some info may apply.

[mwp]

Thanks. So far the only consistent sexual dimorphic characteristics I can locate in online literature is "males are larger than females"... It sounds like having higher ray counts in fins would go along with the fish being larger...at least "perhaps"...

Hmm.

[rous]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/hcs3/index.php
hi,ive done a little research for you regarding blennies and breeding them,i even asked at our local sea life centre.
there is alot of info here for you which should give you a bit more of an insight.
hope this helps you.
dave

[phender]

I have two E. graveri in a 60 gal aquarium. I can't really say they are a pair, but they don't fight and they do perform a circle dance behavior on occation.

I can't figure out why these fish aren't more popular. I have never seen one at any LFS in 20 years of looking around, yet the local wholesaler gets them in every month with its Red Sea shipments. They usually come mixed in with the Black-lined fang toothed blennies that they mimic.

I bought two of different size. They both have grown, the larger one has seemed to grow faster. I haven't noticed any spawning behavior yet.

I have kept them as singles and in a pair. They hide much less when they are with others, maybe do to the schooling behavior they exibit when with M. nigrolineatus. If you are getting 4, you might consider putting them together in the same tank at the same time, and let them figure it out. As I said, I didn't and still don't see any aggression between my two.

FWIW: The wholesaler sells them for $12-$13, which in this area would make the retail price around $24-$30. Live Aquaria has them for $30. Not that $30 is cheap, but you sounded like you might be paying a lot more than that.

My single:(RIP)
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/543/67981gBlennyOpen.jpg
My "pair"
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/543/67981gMImicBlennyPair1.jpg

[dreamwish3]

i have two canary blennies i bought at the same time. they are about year old.they were not paired when i bought them. one month ago i noticed the smaller ones bottom was getting bigger.about aweek and a half ago the small one started going under my magnet cleaner and was doing something funny.i got closer to see and she i guess was laying eggs.she layed a few and went back and ate them. don't know why. but they just paired or i ended up with a female and male.i got my video cam out and taped about 15 mins. of it .was real cool.before this time i was away in november when i got back under my magnet was a glob of red stuff but i did not look close enough to see what it was.i moved the magnet to clean it and it was eggs,they were floating everywhere.i don't know why but there doing it again.

[mwp]

Well guys, I am now the proud owner of 2 Ecsenius graveri. I did end up picking them up from LiveAquaria.com - a bit thin but otherwise very nice specimens.

I was very specific in asking them to select 2 suitable fish. I started with a request that if they had any compatible pairs that had made themselves known, those were the 2 I wanted. If not, the instructions I gave them were to get one of the largest and one of the smallest. I also included the basic Blenny Sexing information I gleamed from the article at:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/hcs3/index.php

"all Ecsenius share the common Blenniid traits of a greatly reduced first dorsal spine for females, as well as a triangular fleshy lobe encompassing the large urogenital opening, while males have a small opening at the end of the small tube. "

Well, it sure looks like they sent me a male and a female. The larger E. graveri, upon examination with the naked eye, appears to fit the "small opening at the end of a small tube" scenario. To best describe how the smaller, suspected "female" looks, well, it looks like she has two openings whereas the "male" really just looks like one. Then again, I could have these totally backwards, in fact the large one could in fact be the "fleshy covering", thus why it looks like one opening vs. two. At any rate, if I were using "venting" to sex these much in the same way we'd examine the "vent" to sex Tropheus sp., I'd have to say having the two side-by-side these are most definitely a Male/ Female Pair. So bravo Dr. Foster & Smith!

Now for the big question - currently I have release the "female" into the main tank and the "male" is residing in a net breeder. Should I give 'em a week and then release the male, or do you guys think that maybe it's better to introduce them simultaneously into the tank. Afterall, I hadn't thought about it, but perhaps this particular species of Ecsenius is more inclined to "school" vs. be nasty towards each other..so maybe they'll get along OK afterall?

Thoughts?!

Thanks!

Matt

[NicoleC]

You have them in a QT, right? If so, fish are unlikely to fight so soon, IME. Once they are fatter and feeling more comfortable, all bets are off, and it's much easier to deal with in a QT than in a display tank.

[mwp]

Unfortunately Nicole I am literally LIMITED to 2 tanks, quarantine is not an option. If anything parasitic arises, we have to hope the cleaner shrimp will take care of it :)

These guys are at home with the Percula Pair...the tank we wiped out with a 3 gallon water change not too long ago. Everything about the tank continues to test out fine though...so this pair is our first attempt at reestablishing the tank to it's former "fish glory"!

So, with all that said, still, who votes for introducing the male to the "females" tank in a week, and who suggests I should just release him now and let them get used to the tank together?

Matt

[NicoleC]

I think you are seriously handicapping yourself for any breeding attempt. ALL wild caught fish have parasites, and the presence of parasites can weaken any potential larvae. Sorry, but cleaner shrimp do not cure parasites, especially not intestinal worms.

Not to mention the risk to your existing stock.

A QT does not need to be fancy; a simple 10g with a weak powerhead and heater will do.

[mwp]

Nicole, let me rephrase - "Perhaps our cleaner shrimp can handle any ecto parasites..." ;)

Seriously, if I *could* have a few 10 gallon tanks set up around here, I would. QT is simply not an option! Besides, the only way I'll convince my other half to do a 3rd tank at this point is if we absolutely need it for larvae.

FWIW,

Matt

[phender]

IME, I would introduce them at the same time, to avoid one establishing a territory and attempting to defend it against the "newcomer". Mine were fine introduced together.

[mwp]

Well Phil, I took your advice before you even gave it ;) A couple hours ago I dumped the male in...don't know why, just had a gut feeling about it.

Other than some circling with the female leading with clamped fins, the male following but not biting or otherwise acting aggressive, so far things are going wonderfully!

Thanks for the input!

Matt

[mwp]

BTW, they're grazing in each other's vicinity and, for that matter, grazing like PIGS! So far I'm pretty pleased...coloration could be better but that will come with good feed ;)

Matt

[Peter Schmiedel]

The specialities of blennies is their thick slime coating, this makes it rather difficult for any parasites to get settled. Here in Belgium and my home country Germany 99% of the hobbiest do not Q their fish. And I dount that we have hight mortality rates ;)

As blennies are territorial fish I would always recomend to add them at the same time - hence you did the right thing.

[mwp]

Well, we're at the start of day 2, other than some really low-key domination / submission posturing (male dominating, female clamping fins and shimmying) looks like this little "experiment" so far is going successfully. They're not even looking at prepared foods yet, but grazing algae like any other hungry Ecsenius!

The other interesting observation I can make on my pair is that they seem very content with being out in the open all the time, even when resting. So far they haven't taken up residence in any of the boltholes, they've never hidden. Just for the most part they sit on the sand when not grazing.

HMM.

Matt

[laverda]

phender: Can you get me a pair of E. graveri from the wholesalers? Do you think they would get along with my Bi-colors in my 240? The Bi colors almost never leave the right third of my tank, especially the male. The male is is mostly in the far right and the female the middle right of my tank.

[mwp]

4 days in and none the worse for the wear...saw one "aggressive" lunge made by the "male" towards the "female" today. Otherwise, for the most part they seem uninterested in each other and will allow each other as close as a couple inches. If nothing else, we definitely have 2 fish that will get along just fine....better than I originally hoped for. I gotta say, for a 24 gallon tank, I expected disaster. Still not 100% sure we have a male/female, but it's looking pretty likely at this point. A fertile spawn will convince me!

Now if I can just get these guys to fatten up, take prepared foods and breed! I gotta say these are some GREAT blennies, far more interesting and USEFUL than their fang-blenny counterparts!

MP