EcoTech Marine VorTech MP40 Release Information

[EcoTech Marine]

We decided that since we never really got much interest in the VorTech pump, we’d release more information to stir up some excitement ;)

The official Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) for the VorTech MP40 is $345.00. This price is a maximum suggested retail price; we do not impose price minimums. Price will vary from vendor to vendor.

Product will be available in limited quantities from specific vendors sometime in March, 06. Larger quantities will be available in April.

The product consumes between 35 and 40 watts of energy at its highest output, some pumps will operate at higher wattage during break in. Our lab tested flow rate is 3100 gph. During the development of this product we benchmarked it against several other products using a standard procedure to measure the flow rate of the pump. We found that some of our competitors were not hitting their claimed flow rate. The VorTech provides ~25% more flow then the performance we measured from our closest competitor, and does this at 10% less wattage, amounting to a product which is overall ~30% more efficient. Additionally, flow is capable of being turned down to approximately several hundred gallons per hour. This product is capable of being used on tanks as small as 20 gallons. How do we know? EcoTech Marine has been running it on a 29 gallon system for months.

We realize that manufacturers’ statements only mean so much to many of you. Third party testing is in process and will be published in the near future.

We sincerely appreciate all of the interest in this product and are looking forward to the coming months.

Best Regards,

Tim

[Fliger]

Hi Tim, will the battery back-up be available at the same time. I'd really like to pick one of these up with the back-up. Thanks!

David

[thrlride]

do you have any estimates to what online and local shops are going to charge for these?

[jdsabin1]

"Product will be available in limited quantities from specific vendors sometime in March, 06. Larger quantities will be available in April."

How limited? I need two of them in March. Which vendor do I talk to? I can pay for them today :).

Thx.

[EcoTech Marine]

I don't have any more information to present regarding how limited production will be or who will have it. I suggest you guys start talking to your LFS's or favorite mail order vendors; now that the MSRP has been set, the price you pay is determined by them.

-Tim

[leftovers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6642224#post6642224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thrlride
do you have any estimates to what online and local shops are going to charge for these?


1 MILLION DOLLARS! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

[thrlride]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6642537#post6642537 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by leftovers
1 MILLION DOLLARS! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

That's a bargain!

Let me check my bank account.....
















































Can I have two please?

[elephen]

Cant wait to have a few!! :)

[Willy315]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6641855#post6641855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
We decided that since we never really got much interest in the VorTech pump, we’d release more information to stir up some excitement ;)

The official Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) for the VorTech MP40 is $345.00. This price is a maximum suggested retail price; we do not impose price minimums. Price will vary from vendor to vendor.

Product will be available in limited quantities from specific vendors sometime in March, 06. Larger quantities will be available in April.

The product consumes between 35 and 40 watts of energy at its highest output, some pumps will operate at higher wattage during break in. Our lab tested flow rate is 3100 gph. During the development of this product we benchmarked it against several other products using a standard procedure to measure the flow rate of the pump. We found that some of our competitors were not hitting their claimed flow rate. The VorTech provides ~25% more flow then the performance we measured from our closest competitor, and does this at 10% less wattage, amounting to a product which is overall ~30% more efficient. Additionally, flow is capable of being turned down to approximately several hundred gallons per hour. This product is capable of being used on tanks as small as 20 gallons. How do we know? EcoTech Marine has been running it on a 29 gallon system for months.

We realize that manufacturers’ statements only mean so much to many of you. Third party testing is in process and will be published in the near future.

We sincerely appreciate all of the interest in this product and are looking forward to the coming months.

Best Regards,

Tim

Is the battery back-up included in the MSRP of $345 or will it be an additional cost?

[smleee]

Awesome. :D I've been waiting for quite a while. After seeing the video, I don't know if one or two would be suitable for a 150g. I assume the flow rate can be controlled electronically, with just the base MP40?
eee

[ycrazyy]

The controller for the pump (obviously included with all the pumps) allows you to control the flow from somewhere around 30% to 100%.

[carpetride]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6645679#post6645679 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ycrazyy
The controller for the pump (obviously included with all the pumps) allows you to control the flow from somewhere around 30% to 100%.

I think I may have mis-stated this in another thread somewhere. Notice above they mention several hundred gallons...so it sounds more like 10% on the bottom side. Could have swore I saw 30% in the original thread though.

[ycrazyy]

Well I have seen it going in person, it can definitely get pretty low. But there's no real way for me to say exactly what % that may be. :) Either way, much more fun to see this thing on full blast.

[mwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6645679#post6645679 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ycrazyy
The controller for the pump (obviously included with all the pumps) allows you to control the flow from somewhere around 30% to 100%.

Will this controller be able to pulse?

[maxxII]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6644409#post6644409 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Indy1
Is the battery back-up included in the MSRP of $345 or will it be an additional cost?

I'm curious about this as well. I was under the impression that the battery back up would be part of the pumps package. I'm not trying to nag or "get something for free" just seeking clarification as I might have misread things in the Icecap pump thread...

Thank you.

Nick

[1SickReefer]

I just looked over their website and from the way I read it, the battery BA will be additional to the actual pump cost.

from the website:
______________________________
Battery Backup Acessory
An IceCap, Inc. battery backup powers the EcoTech Marine VorTech Propeller Pump for up to 24-hours during a power outage emergency.
________________________________

Accessory, being the key word.. but this is just a guess.

But man this looks sweet, Esp for the inwall design ppl to be able to put it on all 3 sides.

Can you say no more dead spots! with the abialty to just 'slide' this thing around you tank walls you can put flow where ever you need it low or high,

the BB clan should be very happy with this. Mount to back wall on bottom and blast away.

[EcoTech Marine]

No advanced wave controllability is designed into the VorTech out of the box; only manual speed control.

The battery backup is an accessory to the VorTech pump. It will be sold in an enclosure with a charging circuit as a separate entity from the pump itself. The pump is capable of working with the battery backup out of the box.

-Tim

[mwood]

I thought this was able to pulse like a tunze? Can it be connected to a wavetimer without issues?

[gobygoby]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6650155#post6650155 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwood
I thought this was able to pulse like a tunze? Can it be connected to a wavetimer without issues?

inquiring minds want to know:D are there any plans to create "wave in a box "

[EcoTech Marine]

It will be able to pulse when our controller comes out within the next year. So far in testing there have been no issues with running this on a wave timer. We recommend an interval no shorter then 60 seconds.

-Tim

[jdsabin1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6650139#post6650139 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
The battery backup is an accessory to the VorTech pump. It will be sold in an enclosure with a charging circuit as a separate entity from the pump itself. The pump is capable of working with the battery backup out of the box.

-Tim Will this be available when the pumps are in the channel in March or do we have to wait? Approximately how much will this battery enclosure cost? Will a person need just one for multiple pumps or is it a 1:1 ratio?

Thank you.

-Jeff

[EcoTech Marine]

The battery will be available within the first few months of availability of the VorTech. There's a running competition to see whether IC or ETM get's their product on the shelves first ;)

No idea of expected MSRP for the battery yet.

-Tim

[smleee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6650131#post6650131 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jbirdjjones10
But man this looks sweet, Esp for the inwall design ppl to be able to put it on all 3 sides.

Yep. :D

eee

[mwood]

Would they run on the bottom of a BB tank pointed up?

[mattseattle]

sure they would...

[1SickReefer]

My Guess is yes also. Maybe not though real think glass and starboard though... i dunno

[kellymm7149]

nice idea but for 345.00 without a controller ill stick with the tunzes a least they have a track record

[DerekW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6651194#post6651194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwood
Would they run on the bottom of a BB tank pointed up?

Awesome idea....
A reef fountain :)

[1SickReefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6651733#post6651733 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kellymm7149
nice idea but for 345.00 without a controller ill stick with the tunzes a least they have a track record

That is the MAX MSRP. I highly dought they will retail for that much if they want to stay competitive with Tunze. I am thinking 250 - 275. but as always I could be wrong :D

[honey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6651194#post6651194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwood
Would they run on the bottom of a BB tank pointed up?

I'm 100% sure I have seen that done with a Tunze here at RC but can't find the thread.
Searching for it, I only found the thread with a Tunze pointing down at a BB:


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=504494

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/47290new_tunze_pvc_rack.JPG

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/47290new_starboard.JPG


....but you can't do that (point it down like in the pics) with a VorTech, since the motor has to be outside of the water.

I *think* the Tunze pointing up it was in the Tunze forum? I'm almost sure I have the pics in my hard disk...

Honey

[smleee]

Woo Hoo! The wife has agreed to let me get one! :) Essentially as a test before we do the inwall and if all goes well I can get another one.

eee

[EcoTech Marine]

You can mount the VorTech to the bottom of the aquarium pointing up, provided that the total clamping distance does not exceed the 3/4" gap for which it is spec'd.

I don't recall if it was mentioned in the announcment or not, however you may operate the VorTech on any of the wave-controllers currently on the market... One thing to keep in mind: When using the battery backup and a standard wave-timer device, the VorTech will simply switch to battery mode when the wavemaker turns it off.

Justin

[maxxII]

Do the Vortech's require a "soft start" wave maker, or not?

Nick

[EcoTech Marine]

"soft start" as you say, is built in.

[mwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6658945#post6658945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
"soft start" as you say, is built in.

Is that why you shouldn't use a wavetimer with less than a minute cycle time, because it takes a few seconds to start up?

[SeanT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6641855#post6641855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
The official Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) for the VorTech MP40 is $345.00. This price is a maximum suggested retail price; we do not impose price minimums. Price will vary from vendor to vendor.

The product consumes between 35 and 40 watts of energy at its highest output, some pumps will operate at higher wattage during break in. Our lab tested flow rate is 3100 gph.

The VorTech provides ~25% more flow then the performance we measured from our closest competitor, and does this at 10% less wattage, amounting to a product which is overall ~30% more efficient.

Hey Tim,
A couple questions about thess statements I was hoping you would comment on.
The term "closest competitor" is relative.
At your price point and stated gph I would say that Tunze fits that bill over anyone else, especially taking design into consideration.

That being the case, you are running a reported 5-10 watts less than the Tunze 6100 however, you are not providing 25% more flow, in fact you would be running 4% less flow.
And at your specified numbers it is 7.7-8.8% more efficient in energy consumption.

I am just trying to figure out where you got your %'s from...what competitor did you use as a baseline?

Thanks,
Sean

[smleee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6641855#post6641855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
During the development of this product we benchmarked it against several other products using a standard procedure to measure the flow rate of the pump. We found that some of our competitors were not hitting their claimed flow rate.

Well that's the "gray area", the standard procedure; so I guess he'd have to explain how they measure flow rate on those things! :)

eee

[Bladez]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6657915#post6657915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
You can mount the VorTech to the bottom of the aquarium pointing up, provided that the total clamping distance does not exceed the 3/4" gap for which it is spec'd.
Not that many people would be interested doing something like this, but the bottom of most glass tanks are considerably thicker than the sides. My 200g Oceanic has 1/2" walls and a 1"-1 1/4" thick bottom.

[GSchiemer]

1 1/4" glass on the bottom of a 200 gallon aquarium?! Are you certain of that? Is it something you custom ordered because I can't believe that Oceanic would build it that way.

[wbeavers]

Looks to me like the 11/4" is 3/4" glass & 1/2" starboard; but just a guess.

[sellout007]

Quick question for IC or ETM.

My LFS wants to get some of these pumps. Who do they contact to get some ordered? Im guessing its IC? They called and havent heard back from them yet.

[Brent Hutchings]

Bump,
Hey Tim,
A couple questions about thess statements I was hoping you would comment on.
The term "closest competitor" is relative.
At your price point and stated gph I would say that Tunze fits that bill over anyone else, especially taking design into consideration.

That being the case, you are running a reported 5-10 watts less than the Tunze 6100 however, you are not providing 25% more flow, in fact you would be running 4% less flow.
And at your specified numbers it is 7.7-8.8% more efficient in energy consumption.

I am just trying to figure out where you got your %'s from...what competitor did you use as a baseline?

Thanks,
Sean

[wade]

Hey Tim,
A couple questions about thess statements I was hoping you would comment on.
The term "closest competitor" is relative.
At your price point and stated gph I would say that Tunze fits that bill over anyone else, especially taking design into consideration.

That being the case, you are running a reported 5-10 watts less than the Tunze 6100 however, you are not providing 25% more flow, in fact you would be running 4% less flow.
And at your specified numbers it is 7.7-8.8% more efficient in energy consumption.

I am just trying to figure out where you got your %'s from...what competitor did you use as a baseline?


I don't believe that they will state who exactly they used in their tests, but you actually removed the line from their response that answers your question indirectly.

During the development of this product we benchmarked it against several other productsusing a standard procedure to measure the flow rate of the pump. We found that some of our competitors were not hitting their claimed flow rate. The VorTech provides ~25% more flow then the performance we measured from our closest competitor, and does this at 10% less wattage, amounting to a product which is overall ~30% more efficient.

It appears as though they tested their pump against a few others using the same test at the same time. In regards to their claims, so long as the testing was performed the same way on each device, it stands to reason that their claim is accurate.

I'm looking forward to getting one and trying it out in the future.... certainly sounds like its got the competition beat. Yay for hobby advancement!

[mwood]

Anyone else nervous about running a $300 pump on a wavetimer that didn't come from the same company? At least if I bought a pump with a controller from Tunze, I know it is designed to run that way, to pulse. Very few pumps have fared well on wavetimers. I'd hate to pay $300 to have it go bad.

[Wryknow]

They can't really answer the question about who they benchmarked against without opening themselves up to a law suit from their competitors (likely Tunze.) Stating that a competitor is falsely advertising their flow rate is a potential source of litigation regardless of whether it is true or not. (Gotta love the American legal system.) At the very least they would have to be able to provide extensive documentation on their testing methodology and results to prove that their claim was true. They are probably not willing to do that and who can blame them!

[RichK]

I have 2 of these on an ANCIENT wavemaker (Sandpoint Wave3XR) and there are no issues at all. I originally had them alternating with a 12 minute on/off cycle. I have since reduced the cycle to 5 min on/off. There is no pump "chatter" to speak of. These pumps do have a gentle start, which makes the pump ramp up to full speed. However, this takes only takes a second or two. The 2 pumps are on my 125G SPS tank for reference, full power. They create an extremely wide flow pattern and also create a nice undertow which seems to go along the sandbed. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

[Chris@IceCap]

sellout007,

Have your LFS contact me.

Chris
IceCap Inc.
609-588-5338 X22

[sellout007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6679724#post6679724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Chris@IceCap
sellout007,

Have your LFS contact me.

Chris
IceCap Inc.
609-588-5338 X22


Just called them up and gave them your number. The LFS name is GoFish Aquariums (Chicago Aquatics) and either Jeff Lodico, Vince Kelly or Brian Potter will call you up. Probably Jeff.

Thanks for the response.

[Edgar VM]

Hi,

$345.00 Bucks each??!!!

I thought these pumps would have a price that will make the Tunzes look expensive (got that idea form the previous posts after the MACNA)...but it is exactly the other way around.

Battery backup is nice, but you can do a DIY battery backup for less money, which then lets us only with the flow control as the novelty...but then this flow control is manual and not like the ones in the tunze system...and if you could use a wavemaker with these pumps you still have to pay some more for the wavemakers and cross your fingers hoping the pumps will like that.

Which again makes me think that 2 tunzes for the price of one of these can create much more interesting flows than one vortech, specially since I'll have to turn the knob every time I want to change the flow...

Regards,
Edgar

[Bladez]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6819715#post6819715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Edgar VM
$345.00 Bucks each??!!!

For that price range, you will get way more versatility out of the Tunze products.

[mwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6820098#post6820098 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bladez
For that price range, you will get way more versatility out of the Tunze products.

Yes and no, they will be smaller in the tank, but they can only be put on the back unless the tank is inwall. Also I've seen nothing showing how flow would be directed anything other than straight.

They are cool, but I wouldn't say they are way more versatile than a tunze.

[sellout007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6820508#post6820508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwood
Yes and no, they will be smaller in the tank, but they can only be put on the back unless the tank is inwall. Also I've seen nothing showing how flow would be directed anything other than straight.

They are cool, but I wouldn't say they are way more versatile than a tunze.


I think you misread what he said. He said the same thing you did. That the tunzes are more versatile.

[landragon]

Mwood, I think that is what he was saying, as there was no "than" in front of the "out".

[Bladez]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6820508#post6820508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwood
They are cool, but I wouldn't say they are way more versatile than a tunze.
Speaking from experience using Tunze streams… When operating this type of pump, even at the lowest speeds, you will be in danger of knocking things (rocks and corals) down.

IMO placement and flow direction are some of the most important issues when purchasing a pump. The VorTech is limited to the walls of the tank and a straight on flow, whereas the streams can be placed anywhere inside the tank including the rock structure and the they can be pointed in any direction; that's versatility.

Initially the VorTech might look marginally better than the Streams. However, at some point everyone will want to change the location and or the flow direction of their pump; looks won't help you with this!

[mwood]

I see now, my bad.

I think it will have a market, but they may have to price it closer to a sio.

[landragon]

I actually agree with that comment mostly. It seems quite steep for the features that come stock. Even with the pointed out difference between MSRP/selling price. For the pump as it will be released I feel $140-$180 would be fair for the introduction price, with it coming down $30 or so over the next year or two. It doesn't seem worth more with out the controller.

[wbeavers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6822535#post6822535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bladez
Speaking from experience using Tunze streams… When operating this type of pump, even at the lowest speeds, you will be in danger of knocking things (rocks and corals) down.

IMO placement and flow direction are some of the most important issues when purchasing a pump. The VorTech is limited to the walls of the tank and a straight on flow, whereas the streams can be placed anywhere inside the tank including the rock structure and the they can be pointed in any direction; that's versatility.

Initially the VorTech might look marginally better than the Streams. However, at some point everyone will want to change the location and or the flow direction of their pump; looks won't help you with this!
The flow on a Vortech pump is substantually wider and more gentle than the Stream. The flow pattern difference between the two is almost compariable to the difference between the Stream and a Maxijet. I have both a Vortech and a 6100 Stream. I would trade my Stream for a VorTech without question.

[Bladez]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6825315#post6825315 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wbeavers
The flow on a Vortech pump is substantually wider and more gentle than the Stream.
Based on the videos and comments posted by the beta testers and the initial video posted on the website below, the VorTech flow seems equally as turbulent and forceful as the 6100's that I have in my tank.

Initial Video (http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=422&osCsid=0285e3698901450636d6d0a1a0718841)
Beta Tester Forum (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=767005&highlight=VorTech)

Beta Tester Comment
Originally posted by melev Here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=672444&perpage=25&pagenumber=35)
I have SPS corals about 16" from the VorTech (when it was positioned in the picture above), and two corals ended up with a small bald spot due to running it on high. I moved the pump more toward the front of the tank to avoid that direct contact and both are doing just fine. Of course, turning down the flow at the driver box is easily done as well.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6825315#post6825315 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wbeavers
The flow pattern difference between the two is almost compariable to the difference between the Stream and a Maxijet. I have both a Vortech and a 6100 Stream.
That's a pretty substantial claim and this would be a very difficult thing to prove. Were both pumps pushing the same amount of water? The "gentleness" of the flow would be dependant on the volume of water being pushed through the pump.

[wbeavers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6828634#post6828634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bladez
That's a pretty substantial claim and this would be a very difficult thing to prove. Were both pumps pushing the same amount of water? The "gentleness" of the flow would be dependant on the volume of water being pushed through the pump. [/B]
Not really look at the size comparison between the props.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d15/spsreef/48878772.jpg
Both were turned up all the way. The point is that the pattern of flow is much wider on the VorTech.

[jnarowe]

It hurts when the truth hits you in the face like a frozen shovel. :D

[carpetride]

The Vortech appears to have a metal shaft?????

[EcoTech Marine]

The beta pumps used 316L for the drive shafts; however the drive shaft has been replaced with a plastic material for production.

[jdsabin1]

How is the release date shaping up? Still a trickle in March and widely available in April then?

[zapata41]

man i jst read a bunch on the maxi stream thread and now looking at those props, looks just like a frickin 1$ prop. now that makes a 350$ price tag hard to swallow

Tim

[wbeavers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6853480#post6853480 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zapata41
man i jst read a bunch on the maxi stream thread and now looking at those props, looks just like a frickin 1$ prop. now that makes a 350$ price tag hard to swallow

Tim
Do you compare Yugos to Ferraris also?

[zapata41]

sure why not

[mwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6853627#post6853627 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wbeavers
Do you compare Yugos to Ferraris also?

If the Ferrari came without a steering wheel perhaps.

[zapata41]

well that works then since the vortech doesnt come with a controller

Tim

[mwood]

I was referring to the ability to direct the flow.

[elephen]

Tagging along...

[Mike.B]

Well I definetly just found the way I'm going to add flow to my tank. Im going to have it on the back wall pointing forward. Those are so much nicer to look at than a big tunze and cord and whatnot, tunze's are good and the features they have are great but the size is too much and I've never like the look of them compared to closed loops. Now this product I believe will even give closed loops a run for there money.

Great product, give it some time, not like tunze came out with all the features they have now in a day.

Im actually so relieved that I dont have to upgrade my closed loop pump and with this I would have somewhere around 4000gph on a 75g(53x turnover) :dance:

Whats the diameter of the part thats in the tank, and how long is the nozzle thats in the tank? How quiet is it?

[Bax]

Very interested in these VorTech pumps.

One question for you Beta testers.

The pump has to be mounted flat to the glass so flow must be perpendicular to a pane of glass, right?

I like being able to point the Tunze around, is this a limitation in the Beta testers opinion?

And one more thing, if no controller is included for $350ish, how much will the controllers cost?

Thanks

[MadTownMax]

after making my own maxi-jet mod (similar in use of a propeller) I've found that the flow is so dispersed, that the direction of "flow" isn't really an issue - it's 108-degrees different from the conventional "jet" flow pattern of a powerhead - it's dispersed radially, and the flow down the center is really just a secondary effect of the random, turbulent flow that is directed outword.

I don't, however think that mounting in the back would be optimum, mounting on the end would be more useful - of course you can try everything when you recieve it.

confusing enough? :lol:

[Mike.B]

From what I read in the description of what you get for $350, you can control the jet anywhere from 100gph - 3100gph. So its minor control but no wave type control.

[mattseattle]

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/ has production photos of the Vortech for you to check out. They are under the wavemaker section.

Mine should be here soon.

[Mike.B]

EcoTech Marine can you awnser my question... :wave:

[RichK]

Let me answer it. I've been using 2 of the vortechs and yes, you can vary the flow from ~100gph to its rated flow of ~3100gph. I like this feature alot. It allowed me to "condition" my tank to the amout of flow they produce. I started them on about 1/2 way, then shortly thereafter(a week), they were running at 100%. I also turn them down during feeding sometimes to create a less turbulent environment for my fish so they can eat.

For those who would like a "feed mode", the vortechs work perfectly with any standard wavemaker. I have my 2 on an old sandpoint wavemaker(about 10 years old) and they work great. The only thing that ETM recomends is at least a 1 minute on cycle. I have mine set to alternate back and forth every 5-7 minutes. Hope that helps.

[EcoTech Marine]

In response to your question about size:

Both halves of the VorTech measures roughly 3" diameter and 2.25" in length.

-Tim

[melev]

Tim, have you posted any images of the final official version anywhere? I'd like to see the part where you can adjust it for glass thickness.

I showed my beta model to the club last night, and explained what it could do. Everyone loved it, until I got to the price. I saved the best for last. :lol:

I'm sure several will get one without batting an eye.

[jnarowe]

I just got an email from Custom Aquatic saying that IceCap had shipped a handful but distribution wouldn't start until the middle of May. What a drag!!:(

[EcoTech Marine]

melev: We have not posted any pictures yet, we are working on getting high quality images. Frankly, I was anticipating more people would post pictures of their new toys :D

Justin

[mattseattle]

I was too anxious to get mine in the water so I didn't even bother to take pictures of it. I know I should've shared! :)

[melev]

Seeing how it is only a magnet holding it on, I think you could pluck it off for a picture, mattseattle. ;)

Here's a picture that a club member took last night at our meeting.

http://myweb.cableone.net/blide/meeting2.jpg

[carpetride]

mattseattle: What day did you get yours? Mine has yet to arrive, I was told that it shipped out on April 6th but did not recieve a tracking number. Requested the tracking number again last night but haven't seen it yet.

Edit: Not trying to knock the vendor...because I know that patience is a virtue but so is communication.

[mattseattle]

carpetride - who did you orders you through?

I received mine last Friday the 7th but I paid for 2nd day FedEx to get it quicker.

[mattseattle]

melev - yeah you are right so i went downstairs and plucked it off the tank and took some photos for everyone.

here ya go....

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/mattseattle/P4130002.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/mattseattle/P4130005.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/mattseattle/P4130007.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/mattseattle/P4130009.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/mattseattle/P4130011.jpg

[mattseattle]

Chord, eh? :) align it with the Vortech's Chord!

Justin - I think there is a misspelling! :)

[melev]

I don't get it. How does that part work?

[mattseattle]

notice in the third picture how it has key hole notches? each of those notches represent a thickness that is on the label. you align the number on the label with the power cord. so if you have a 3/16" thick tank you align that with the cord. there are some pegs on the inside of that piece that go into the Vortech.

it's really simple to do as there is no guessing as long as you know the thickness of your tank.

[melev]

Pegs. That makes sense. Thanks!

[mattseattle]

the only flaw i see is this is a sticker and looks like it could easily come off or get lost. not a biggie though.

[jnarowe]

The only flaw I see is that people are receiving these and I am being told that they are not available until May. :(

[mattseattle]

well it's the middle of april so may is soon. :)

i've waited since january 8th for mine.

[MadTownMax]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7173357#post7173357 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
The only flaw I see is that people are receiving these and I am being told that they are not available until May. :(

how about a 1/2-size model for 1/2 the price for the other 90% of reef-keepers who don't have 100+ gallon tanks


just a thought - :D

[jnarowe]

I think a Vortech is just perfect for a 65g!!:eek1:

[sknoch78]

After recieving mine, I can now understand why there have been no pics. I don't even have water in my tank yet and the first thing I did when I got home tonight was put them on my tank to see how they looked. Bummer I will not be able to run them quite yet. I can say that I was a little nervous about how they would look and feel. Ince I opened the box, all my fears went away. These are a solidly built. I took several photos of the unit for sharing. I only have one concern. I have three of these and plan to put them across the back of my 240. I have a black back and I have a feeling it is going to be a pain to line the two halves up.



http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01743.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01744.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01745.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01746.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01750.jpg
[IMG]

[sknoch78]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01753.jpg[/IMG]
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01755.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01756.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01757.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01758.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01759.jpg
[IMG]

[sknoch78]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01760.jpg[/IMG]
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01762.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01763.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01764.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/sknoch78/Vortech/DSC01765.jpg

[jnarowe]

Thank you for the great pics! I am so trying not to get ticked off that I have been on two waiting lists for these since January and so many people have apparently recieved the pumps already. I have water in my tank and really need these pumps.

Does anyone have any cheese to go with my whine??

[melev]

Thanks for the pictures, sknoch. The final product looks awesome, even better than my beta model.

[1SickReefer]

let me get this correct, these are only manual controllable?? they do not have a wavemaker that is automated?

[melev]

Not yet. That is a separate controller, but you can plug it into a wavemaker if you like, as long as it has a 1 minute intermission before restarting.

[1SickReefer]

so i can use my ACIII to start and stop these?

[jnarowe]

I will use my AC III for them. Should be almost as good as their controller, but I am not sure if the AC III can be programmed to change the speed. That would be ideal so that during night time the pumps could be slowed down. I think that may be beyond the AC III but I will contact them about it as soon as I get my pumps.

[melev]

I'm not sure. Maybe with the DC-4 or DC-8 system, but I have a feeling it won't work well with X-10 modules. I could be wrong of course. There is a Beta Test thread where someone might have used X-10, and if they did they would likely have posted their experience.

I pretty much just dialed mine in to the speed that worked for my tank in the location it is placed, and adjusted it when necessary either faster or slower. I have two Tunze 6100s at the other end that switch back and forth and ramp up and down, so the flow was random via those pumps.

[jnarowe]

I think, but someone can correct me if I am wrong, that the AC III is limited to just turning the cicuit on and off and cannot raise or lower the current.

[melev]

That is correct.

[jnarowe]

I'll bet that one of RC's resident electrical geniuses could figure out a DIY method to do that...

[~ChrisB~]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7173060#post7173060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattseattle
Chord, eh? :) align it with the Vortech's Chord!

Justin - I think there is a misspelling! :)

Maybe he's a music buff?

[Mike.B]

sknoch78 thanks for tanking pictures with something to compare it to. Im gonna go cut a pop can in half and see what this beast will look like :)

[Mike.B]

ahh hell ya, pop can test worked good!

Definitely going to get one of these, but I'll get it last because by the time I buy 2 grand in other equipment I'm sure ecotech will be caught up

[ReefWaters]

When the controller does come out, will it control the intensity of the flow in the same way that the Tunzes do?

In other words, could you go from 100gph to 3100gph slowly and then back again and so on and so on?

Also, will that controller plug into the manual controller or will it replace the manual controller?

[melev]

Also, is there any word on when the battery backup will become available, and how much it will cost? My power was out for the past 3 hours, and it would have been nice if the VorTech was keeping the circulation going. Fortunately, I had a generator, but it was pretty loud at 3am. ;)

[jnarowe]

Marc,

You can use a UPS to keep the Vortechs going during a power outage so you don't have to wait for their backup battery.

[melev]

True, if I plug it into the UPS and the UPS into the wall. I was just wanting to use the port that is built into the driver, and wanted to know the details anyway.

[MadTownMax]

If you can use a UPS - why would they even consider making a power supply?



They should concentrate on building a smaller and cheaper unit first ;)

[jnarowe]

yeah!

:lol:

Using a UPS would provide clean current and backup capability but it would not be able to control the unit's function.

If I remember correctly the Vortech controller and backup functions were in a combo unit.

[mattseattle]

not from what i understand - the controller should be wireless from what i've read.

[melev]

Hopefully Tim or Andy will chime in soon.

[MadTownMax]

*jeapordy theme*

If it was a wireless back-up power source, I really gotta see this :D

[EcoTech Marine]

The controller and battery backup are two different products.

controller- will wirelessly control up to 10 pumps using wave control algorithms. In development now, release within a year.

battery backup- will automatically backup up to two VorTech's for 18-36 hours (depending on whether you're running one or two). The battery backup should be out during June.

We're almost there.

-Tim

[mwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7295455#post7295455 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
The controller and battery backup are two different products.

controller- will wirelessly control up to 10 pumps using wave control algorithms. In development now, release within a year.

battery backup- will automatically backup up to two VorTech's for 18-36 hours (depending on whether you're running one or two). The battery backup should be out during June.

We're almost there.

-Tim

Will the battery backup and the wavetimer be compatible? Any issues with running both on the same two pumps?

[EcoTech Marine]

They will be completely compatible. However, standard wavemakers are not compatible with the battery backup. The battery backup will power the pump anytime the wavetimer tries to shut it down.

-Tim

[MadTownMax]

So, if you want to save yourself a few hundred dollars (and can live without having your pumps controlled by a wireless controller; the rest of my tank is wired anyway :rolleyes: ) you can plug the pump into a standard wavemaker, and then into a standard UPS system.

Do you guys have any market analysis for this stuff? I still want a version 1/3 of the size for the other 90% of the people who won't spend $700+ for a controlled circulation system :D

[jdsabin1]

I am SO confused. If I use a RedSea Wavemaker, have two Vortech pumps plugged into this Red Sea Wavemaker, have the Vortech battery devices, and the power goes out, will the battery devices still power the two vortech pumps or am I out of luck because the vortechs are plugged into the Red Sea Wavemaker?

Sorry for not getting it yet but I do need to understand this.

[EcoTech Marine]

jdsabin1-

If you are using the battery backup AND a wave maker (such as the RedSea), the pump will take power from the battery everytime the wavemaker shuts it off, thus the pump will never turn off. If the power goes out, it WILL work on battery backup mode regardless of whether its hooked up to a wavemaker or not.

-Tim

[mattseattle]

don't know how you derived power source out of controller in my message. :)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7295212#post7295212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MadTownMax
*jeapordy theme*

If it was a wireless back-up power source, I really gotta see this :D

[Philwd]

So what you are saying is it makes no sense to run the pumps on a wavemaker if you have the battery hookups until the time in the future when your controller comes out.

[Mike.B]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7296744#post7296744 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Philwd
So what you are saying is it makes no sense to run the pumps on a wavemaker if you have the battery hookups until the time in the future when your controller comes out.

exactly

[mwood]

Why can't the wavetimer and the pump be run off a battery backup?

[jnarowe]

What he said! :D

It could either be configured with the wavemaker or aquarium controller on the UPS as well as the pumps right? So your controller gets UPS power and the Vortechs get UPS power. I don't see any reason why that couldn't be done since all you are adding is a UPS between your input power and the equipment. I do see that the Vortech controller would through-put the Vortech UPS power so that works seamlessly in the event of a power outage but I can't imagine that a work-around can be made until such time as the Vortech system is completed.

Can that be further explained so I understand why it won't work? Based on what Tim writes, it is possible that the Vortechs will be on all the time in the event of a power failure but that wouldn't be too bad since perhaps other pumps like returns will not be working and the tank will need maximum flow under power outage circumstances, right?

BTW, can I get some damn PHs PLEASE!! For God's sake this is killing me. :(

[wbeavers]

Mwood the battery backup is designed to run directly to the driver. This way it is using the 12 volts DC power directly from the battery. You save by not having to pay for an inverter for changing the power. You put the power directley into the pump driver from the battery (12VDC); instead of from the battery to the inverter to the transformer to the pump driver (12VDC-110VAC-12VDC). They are using the KISS method. If you want the latter more inefficent method just get a UPS.

[ReefWaters]

Tim, can you give some more details on the wave making functionality of the controller? Maybe some examples of what you could do with 1, 2, 4, or more pumps.

I, like many others here, are in the process of trying to decide between buying your product and something like Tunze's. I will be buying one or the other but not both.

Thank you for your help and we know you are very busy trying to get all the components rolled out. Thank you again for any info you can provide.

[ReefWaters]

Also, how much is the bearing in the wet casing going to cost to replace? It says in your instructions on your website that the bearing will need replacing every few months to a year.

This doesnt sound like a difficult job but how much are we looking at in maintenance cost every year?

[EcoTech Marine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7299523#post7299523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefWaters
Tim, can you give some more details on the wave making functionality of the controller? Maybe some examples of what you could do with 1, 2, 4, or more pumps.

I, like many others here, are in the process of trying to decide between buying your product and something like Tunze's. I will be buying one or the other but not both.

Thank you for your help and we know you are very busy trying to get all the components rolled out. Thank you again for any info you can provide.

The controller will be digital, and that's all that we can really say at this stage. Because of the fact that it is digital you will have more or less infinite controllability between up to 10 pumps.

The wet bearing will be very economical to replace. Our statement in the instruction manual was an estimate based on the data we had at the time. Now that more time has passed, the data is demonstrating that bearing replacement might be something that we will never have to do (we're looking at 5-10 years here).

-Tim

[phishlet]

Can the Vortech pumps be used on an Aquarium Systems Natural Wave maker?

[RichK]

If a normal powerhead can work with the wavemaker, the Vortech can. Like I have said before, I have been running 2 Vortechs on an OLD OLD OLD wavemaker and they perform flawlessly.

[phishlet]

Cool. Thanks. How many Vortech pumps for a 5 ft. long tank?

[RichK]

I have the 2 in my 6' long 125. I have them alternating on/off every 6 minutes and they are both on 100% power. Tons of flow.

[diverdan814]

When I get two, I am going to run them at lowest setting on a 32 gallon M-tank. On timers.

[wbeavers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7454460#post7454460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phishlet
Can the Vortech pumps be used on an Aquarium Systems Natural Wave maker?
Yes, make sure the interval is at least one minute on, one minute off.

[ReefWaters]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7455330#post7455330 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichK
I have the 2 in my 6' long 125. I have them alternating on/off every 6 minutes and they are both on 100% power. Tons of flow.

I am tryng to plan the flow on a new 150 gallon 6' tank.
What are the dimensions of your tank? Im assuming you have the pumps on the side panes?
Do you have any other flow in the tank to supplament the VorTechs? How much flow do you think you are getting out of your sump return pump?

Thanks for any info you can provide.

[phishlet]

bump

[ReefWaters]

Another Question....

Ive read a lot on this pump but I dont think I have seen this question asked yet. Probably a stupid one.... :confused:

Can the drive side of the pump (the outside part with the plug) be submerged at all? In other words could the drive side go inside an overflow? I know temp would be a concern but I can probably deal with that from one pump.

If it cant be submerged completely, how wet can it get? Being on the outside pane of the tank, it is bound to get splashed on when you are working in the tank.

[EcoTech Marine]

Reefwaters-

The drive side of the pump can not be submerged at all. However, it is relatively water resistant. It can handle the occaisional spill or drip but it definitely cannot handle being submerged behind an overflow.

Note that while it is a robust design, water damage is NOT covered under our warranty. It is the responsibility of the user to keep the product safe from water to insure a long life.

-Tim

[ReefWaters]

Thanks for the info Tim. That's what I assumed. No big deal though.

Another quick question.

How is the flow pattern, from one pump, affected by an obstacle directly in its path? Im looking to put the pumps on the ends of the tank, as most people do, and then have one or two "islands" of rock in the middle of the tank with SPS corals on all sides of the islands. Im concerned about dead spots and low flow areas in the middle, or back sides, of these two islands if the VorTech's are mounted on the ends of the tank. Can you give any feed back on how the flow will be in this situation?

[phishlet]

Good question

[s3aL]

I have the Vortech pump on the left side of my tank and have two islands like you were talking about. When I have the pump turned on to 100% speed it pushes plenty of water across the whole tank(for SPS) and then the undertoe comes back across the whole tank very fast hitting the island on the left side.

I just setup my tank not to long ago but heres a pic so you have a idea.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/jackalpup5/FTS2xAB4xB.jpg

[Bax]

I recently added a VorTech to my 75. You can just make out the VorTech in the front right hand top corner.


http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e354/bax01/TunzeVorTechFTS.jpg

I also have two islands and I moved the VorTech forward as far as possible as I was blowing frags off the right island. And that's set at a little over half speed!

Combined with my one Tunze 6000, it's a little much for a 75 but I am upgrading this tank to a 120 in a couple of weeks.

I think you need about 12" minimum seperation from you rockwork, with nothing but the highest flow corals in that immediate area.

[Bax]

One more thing, you need to have the VorTech a good 4" below the surface or it sucks in air.

It's crazy flow when turned up all the way!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e354/bax01/VorTech.jpg

[jnarowe]

Nice pic! :D

[EcoTech Marine]

Bax-

That's a great pic. Pics like that really do a great job of showing just how inconspicuous the VorTech is compared to 'other' circulation methods.

Nice tank!

-Tim

[Bax]

Thanks Jonathan

Tim

I set up this 75 for the purposes of evaluating different equipment for my 260 project. I am in that camp of mixing flow types, I like the pulsing and directional capabilities of the Tunze but it's a lot'a pump in the display. I am sold on combining a CL ( with a very efficient pump like a Dart), some Tunzes (were I can hide them) and the main stay of my flow will be two to three VorTechs switching on and off through the day to mix up flow patterns. For the wattage and realestate these babies rock!

[Dag]

If the return pump goes off, and the water drops, and the "wet side" of the pump is exposed to air, will they burn out?

[phishlet]

Good question. I have a new pair running on my 125 and thought of that when I put them in place. I think I'll contact Ecotech and ask.

[manderx]

the instructions say that they will be damaged if they run dry. probably just wear out the replacable bearing and maybe the drive shaft before it stalled and shut down.

*but*, i'd say if your water level drops enough to expose the pumps (which need to be at least 4" below the surface to keep from sucking air), you got bigger problems and need to redesign your plumbing.

[Philwd]

Ecotech has installed new drivers that better sense temp faults and over rev situations. I would think the pumps would overheat in short order and shut down. Mine are ~ 4" below the water; well below where water level will drop in a power outtage. Good question. I hope Tim or Ash chime in here.

[EcoTech Marine]

The bearing within the wetframe needs to be water cooled or the frame, bearing and driveshaft could become overheated and bind, melt or otherwise break. You will not damage the motor, as it will shut itself down, however you will need to replace most of these other components at your own expense.

I can tell you from experience that if you have the water level low enough you will have other problems because the pump will literally blow water right out of your tank once the water falls level with the top of the pump.

-Tim

[mwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7608872#post7608872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
...
I can tell you from experience that if you have the water level low enough you will have other problems because the pump will literally blow water right out of your tank once the water falls level with the top of the pump.

-Tim

Is there a minimum tank depth for these? I have a 300 gallon table that I wanted to add these, but this statement concerns me. My tank is only 15" deep and I don't want water being blown out of tank if it's too close to the water surface.

[Mike.B]

Heres mine! Just got it a few days ago, I love it so far, really cool operation, low noise and a ton of flow.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2033/dsc006954cr.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/133/dsc007057ta.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/6714/dsc007063xg.jpg

[Bax]

If I put mine too shallow, less than 4" from the water surface, it can vortex air right from the surface. So ... it would have to be a pretty catastrophic drainage event to effect the VorTech.

[Mike.B]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7609052#post7609052 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bax
If I put mine too shallow, less than 4" from the water surface, it can vortex air right from the surface. So ... it would have to be a pretty catastrophic drainage event to effect the VorTech.

Yeah exactly. I think a burnt out propellar would be the least of your worries, I cant even turn mine up to full blast cause it creates sand twisters in my tank and sucks air in...simply makes a mess.

[sd75i_bnsf]

I was just wondering if anyone knows when the pumps will be released. I order one back in Feb and the online LFS I ordered mine from hasn't received any word when he'll get more in.

[MadTownMax]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7296734#post7296734 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattseattle
don't know how you derived power source out of controller in my message. :)

well, I was referring to the post directly above yours :

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7290869#post7290869 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
If I remember correctly the Vortech controller and backup functions were in a combo unit.


in relation to your post immediately following:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7290914#post7290914 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattseattle
not from what i understand - the controller should be wireless from what i've read.

sorry for trying to make a "ha ha" :( I didn't know there was no room for humor here :(

[MadTownMax]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7610001#post7610001 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sd75i_bnsf
I was just wondering if anyone knows when the pumps will be released. I order one back in Feb and the online LFS I ordered mine from hasn't received any word when he'll get more in.

They're in stock now

[phishlet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7610001#post7610001 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sd75i_bnsf
I was just wondering if anyone knows when the pumps will be released. I order one back in Feb and the online LFS I ordered mine from hasn't received any word when he'll get more in.


You can get them here now:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com

[BRISK495]

how do u seperate the inside (submerged) part of the new icecap pump with the outside area? For some reason it isnt explained anywhere in the directions. I know they are magnet, but I dont want to break it...

[mattseattle]

slide it apart...

[BRISK495]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7611211#post7611211 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattseattle
slide it apart...

thanks Matt....also, is there a Dry gasket that needs to go between the "pin spacer" and the aquarium wall?? I looked everywhere and don't seem to have anything that looks like a hard gasket. I do have the wet squishy gasket though. The other thing is, the "bearing "press fit" seems to have a crack in it. I dont think it is supposed to.....I hope this pump runs better then how the directions are and what seems to a missing part and a cracked piece :(

[mattseattle]

On the outside of the tank there is just the spacer that attaches to the motor. You adjust that based on tank thickness. On the inside there is a wet gasket that goes between the tank wall and the propeller head. It sounds like the wet squishy gasket is that.

As far as the crack...hard to tell but if you can take a picture and post it and we can tell you.

[Philwd]

On my unit the black disk goes betwen the dry unit and the tank. That's the dry gasket. There should be an orange disk. That's the wet gasket. In my instructions there is no mention of a bearing press fit. There is a ceramic bearing and a polymer bearing. Are you referring to the polymer bearing that gets pressed into the frame?

[BRISK495]

I beleive I found both disks...they were stuck togehter....both were black. I am still a bit concerned about the slight crack...I can take pics of that but tried at least seeing if this can work since I took all my other power heads down....

The unit did start soinning but the outter basket was too!! It doesnt seem like it is really "attached" to anything and thus just spinning. I reread the directions and I beleive I have everything correct....IS this how yours are...loose??

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/brisk495/129_2943.jpg

From other side...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/brisk495/129_2944.jpg

The way I think it should look and the propeller only spinny. I also noticed after I took this out of the bak and removed the outter propeeler gauge, there were small pieces....looking like they were broke or maybe poart of that cracked piece I saw earlier...I just wanted to make sure it wasnt the O ring or other important piece that could be causing the problem.....

[BRISK495]

Here's the piece that was in pieces when I took the outter propeller cage off....Does this look like anything important?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/brisk495/129_2947.jpg

[Philwd]

Ok. Something definitely looks wrong on the wet side. The outer frame should be able to slip over the frame base and attach with a turn. There are grooves on the outer frame that line up with protruding plastic pieces. Oh wait a minute I see now! The magnet assembly needs to be flush with the back of the base frame. Did you tighten the hex nut at the top of the propellor assembly? This holds the base magnet tight into the frame base. You only have to tighten the hex nut by hand.

It should not be spinning loose as you describe.

And I had forgotten they were going to start making both gaskets black.

[Philwd]

Sorry. I can't tell what that is supposed to be. Maybe the polymer bearing?? Is the drive shaft very loose in the frame base? It shouldn't be. Just a little.

[BRISK495]

HEre is a pic of the piece that was cracked....

I am pointing to the cracked area...I beleive there are three cracks...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/brisk495/129_2952.jpg

[melev]

It is definitely wrong the way you have it now. The basket presses flush to the glass, and the metal part (the disk with the propellar attached) should be inside the basket. The only part outside the basket would be the wet washer.

[BRISK495]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7612112#post7612112 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Philwd
Sorry. I can't tell what that is supposed to be. Maybe the polymer bearing?? Is the drive shaft very loose in the frame base? It shouldn't be. Just a little.


YEs, it seems to be loose...I have a feeling that the polymer bearing press fit isnt working correctly or is broke. The pics I showed in previous posts must be the part that keeps this in place and keeping the basket from spinning...I will have to contact EcoTech to confirm. I appreciate everyones help. I actually put all my old pumps back in, unfortunately I was unable to get this to work.

[BRISK495]

Here's a pic of the other side of that polymer bearing press fit....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/brisk495/129_2954.jpg

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7611929#post7611929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BRISK495
I beleive I found both disks...they were stuck togehter....both were black. I am still a bit concerned about the slight crack...I can take pics of that but tried at least seeing if this can work since I took all my other power heads down....

The unit did start soinning but the outter basket was too!! It doesnt seem like it is really "attached" to anything and thus just spinning. I reread the directions and I beleive I have everything correct....IS this how yours are...loose??

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/brisk495/129_2943.jpg


The way I think it should look and the propeller only spinny. I also noticed after I took this out of the bak and removed the outter propeeler gauge, there were small pieces....looking like they were broke or maybe poart of that cracked piece I saw earlier...I just wanted to make sure it wasnt the O ring or other important piece that could be causing the problem.....

Looking at this picture again, I believe I'm seeing a black gasket on the wall of the tank. The metal part goes inside the basket. From your later picture on Page 8, it looks like you took it apart.

The small pieces you posted may be pertinent. I would definitely contact Tim before proceeding.

[re]

The new batch of vortech look good, anymore photos ?
How is the last batch of vortechs going?

[EcoTech Marine]

BRISK495-

Your frame is definitely broken, that is why the magnet is touching the gasket and why the pump won't work. Please contact us at sales@ecotechmarine.com so that we can get your address and send you the new part immediately. The frame holds the bearing in place which keeps everything else in the right position.

Considering you are so close to us in PA, you will receive the new part very soon. We are very sorry for this inconvenience.

-Tim

[phishlet]

That's good customer service!


So far, three days into my new Vortechs and all is well. I'm loving them!

[ReefWaters]

I finally decided to get the VorTechs over the Tunzes.
I received two pumps yesterday and installed them on my tank last night. I have a few comments.

1. I think the pumps are made extremely well and the flow is just amazing. Ive never seen anything like this in all my years in the hobby. I cant wait for the controller to come out.

2. As for the instructions and the gasket issues. I dont think the instruction are bad, just a little vague. The instructions could be more clear about adjusting the pin spacer for the tank thickness. It almost sounds like all you have to do is twist the back part of the dry motor. But you really have to pull the whole back (the part that touches the outside of the tank) off of the motor and then rotate it to fit back on. No biggie. The wet gasket issue is a little vague as well. You almost get the feeling that the gasket should be a seperate (third) part from the wet housing and the motor. But it is actually attached quite well to the wet housing.


I think the pumps are incredibly versatile as far as I can tell so far. I bought them to go on my next tank. But I just couldn't wait to use them. I have two now running on my 50 cube. I have them dialed all the way down and the flow just seems perfect so far. I think I can slowly dial them up as well. The corals right next to the pumps seem just fine. The only place where a coral might seem to have a problem would be directly in front of the propeller. But time will tell if my comments are correct.

All in all, if these pumps are made with even half of the detail and quality that IceCap ballasts are made with, I should still be running these pumps in 15 to 20 years and no telling how much longer.

[Mike.B]

Hey wont the magnet on the inside of the aquarium rust, that was my only concern with mine.

[mattseattle]

No it has a special coating on it.

[Mike.B]

Alright then! :cool:

[smoknreefrs]

just orderd mine from PA

[Philwd]

Hey Reefwaters. That's cool. The gaskets are now attached to the dry and wet sides? That's a positive change from my earlier unit. Gaskets were separate pieces. Maybe they didn't update the instructions??

[EcoTech Marine]

Philwd-

The gaskets are not attached, we just replaced the orange gasket with a super soft black gasket which looks better and absorbs vibrations. Because it's so soft I suspect it is sticking very well to the wet assembly during shipping which is creating the impression of it being attached.

-Tim

[phishlet]

yep, I think that's true. It took me a little while to figure out that there were in fact two gaskets. I was studying the instruction picture but couldn't figure out where the second one was that was being referred to. Then I thought to try separatinig the black gasket and realized they were stuck together.

I agree that the black gaskets look a lot better than the orange on the beta models.

[Bax]

Will those of us using the Beta modles be able to replace these orange pads with the new black pads?

Is it a straight swap, fit wise?

If so, do we contact a distributor or go directly to Eco Tech?

[EcoTech Marine]

Just wanted to clarify something here:

Those of you with the orange gaskets do not have beta model pumps. You have production pumps that were sent out prior to us finding and testing the new gasket.

Beta pumps had many more differences other than this one part.

If you are interested in this gasket please contact EcoTech Marine directly at: sales@ecotechmarine.com

-Tim

[smoknreefrs]

havent gotten my pump yet, but, i am already happy with the
Cust. Serv. lol

[phishlet]

Anybody have the following error? Solid red light and blinking green. My user guide doesn't explain this error. I just unplugged the unit and then plugged it back in and it seems to be working again.

[EcoTech Marine]

It's a stall error, there's a typo in the user manual which has since been corrected. I sent a message to your PM box but it's currently full. If it doesn't happen again don't worry about it, if it does happen again send us an email at sales@ecotechmarine.com and we'll work you through whatever might be wrong.

-Tim

[phishlet]

Ok. Thanks. Sorry about my inbox. I emptied some messages now so you should be able to send.

[maxima k2]

What is the warranty on these pumps? I have looked through countless pages and have not seen anything on it.

[smoknreefrs]

i received my pump on weds and i must say its a little early to give a fair assesment but....

these pumps rock

[phishlet]

Just want to say that the customer service from EcoTech has been very, very good! :)

[andyjd]

One of mine is broken :(

seems like I have a lot of play between the bearing and driveshaft, tried to tighten the (plastic)hex nut some to see if the problem would go away but I think the thread is fubared as i cant seem to make it tighter.

Also on the wet side magnet, i have a chip on the outside edge and also a qouge/missing bit about 10mm from the center.

How do I but new parts ?

[phishlet]

Call EcoTech. Their customer support is wonderful. I know they'll help you out.

[Mike.B]

That sucks andy,

The wet part of mine refuses to stay put. No matter what I've tried it will eventually spin. I've tried switching the 2 rubber washers, letting it sit aligned for 24 hours and then turn it on and still spins. Now I've siliconed the wet gasket to the glass and the wet half still spins really slowly. My glass is clean if thats what your thinken. I got no idea why it will not stay.

[andyjd]

Made contact with Tim @ Ecotech

[ReefWaters]

I came home today and one of my pumps had come "un-stuck."
The propeller casing had fallen to the bottom of the tank and the motor was hanging from the cord.

What could have caused this?
Does this indicate a problem with the pump or an incorrect installation on my part?

[jnarowe]

You guys are scaring me. I have 4 of these on the way!

[Bax]

So far, I am loving mine. I run it at 1/2 speed in my 75g and it's excellent! Will be upgrading to a 120g this month. I'll really get to crank it up in there :)

... now that the big production runs are out we'll see how customer service is. S*7%t will happen, but I am hoping it's as good as the product seems so far.

[andyjd]

I love mine, and I am sure that it will be sorted ASAP, its one of the reasons I bought the two pumps, If I had a bigger tank, I'd have more pumps !

[wbeavers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7687311#post7687311 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by subzero420
That sucks andy,

The wet part of mine refuses to stay put. No matter what I've tried it will eventually spin. I've tried switching the 2 rubber washers, letting it sit aligned for 24 hours and then turn it on and still spins. Now I've siliconed the wet gasket to the glass and the wet half still spins really slowly. My glass is clean if thats what your thinken. I got no idea why it will not stay.
I took this from the VorTech FAQs. Hope it helps.

Why is the wet side of my pump spinning?
Sometimes when the VorTech is first installed, the wet side of the pump will spin slowly in place. This is frequently a sign that the glass needs to be cleaned more effectively on the inside of the aquarium where the pump is mounted. In the event that cleaning the glass does not solve this problem, the problem goes away by itself if left alone for a day or so. In the most extreme cases where this problem does not go away after several days, change the pin spacer setting to one size thicker aquarium. For example, if you have a 3/8” thick aquarium and are experiencing this problem, change the pin spacer setting to that for a ½” thick aquarium.

[Mike.B]

Alright so since I have 1/2" thick glass, totally remove the pin spacer? Will this cause it run hotter or wear faster?

I scrubbed clean glass, did nothing.

The problem will not go away by itself, Ive tried leaving it several times and thought it was going to stay but about 18 hours later it started moving again. Most of the time though it moves in the first hour.

Thanks beaver

[andyjd]

Made more contact with Tim despite him not even being in the office.

Top service ! :)

[manderx]

one of mine would spin just barely when first installed. it always stopped spinning if i dropped the speed down all the way for a few minutes, then slowly bumped it up, then it was fine till i moved it again. also doublecheck the alignment, if it's throbbing slightly it might be more likely to break free and spin.

[EcoTech Marine]

ReefWaters-
Many reasons why a pump could become unstuck, including alignment, worn bearing (usually caused by alignment) or as simple as a big snail walking across the top of the pump. Tell me some more details such as length of time you've been running the pump, on/off interval, speed and the thickness of your aquarium. These are important criteria for diagnosing any situation.

Subzero420-
Slow spinning won't damage anything. The better aligned the pump is the better it will work. One of the downsides with the new, black, sound dampening pad is that it does tend to spin a little more prevalently than the older style gaskets, but it doesn't pose a serious problem, especially when it spins slowly.

If you hold the pump stationary for a few moments after turning it on, it will usually stay put. Also, the more often a pump is moved the more likely it will be to spin in the new setting when first installed. The better aligned the less likely to start spinning.

Regarding customer support as larger quantities of these pumps ship out... I don't think anyone will be disappointed. We've made a commitment to our customers and will always be working to take feedback from them to improve both our product and our customer support.

-Tim

[Mike.B]

Well I removed the pin spacer and it helped a lot. The problem with it spining is not that it poses a problem but it becomes un-aligned and noisy. I have absolutely no problem aligning it anymore. I tried having it on full blast without the pin spacer but it moved about 90 degrees in 3 hours. I re-aligned it and now and its been running 4 hours without moving at about 75% power. So hopefully it stays.

[EcoTech Marine]

Subzero420-
Understood. FWIW, 90deg in four hours won't misalign the pump considerably enough in my experience to cause many problems, but your mileage may vary.

Best,

Tim

[jnarowe]

Are there many people having problems with there pumps not staying alligned or in one place? Are you guys talking about the inner piece spinning or the outer piece?

I really want to get a full understanding of how these must be installed so I can avoid these problems if possible. Is there an updated set of instructions available online?

[EcoTech Marine]

These customers are referring to the wet side of the pump spinning.

-Tim

[jnarowe]

Hmmm. So I guess clean glass is one issue to contend with? If there is any kind of film algae that would encourage the unit to spin right?

What other advice do you have to keep this from happening? In my case I have 3/4" acrylic so I would not be using any spacers right? Perhaps then mine would have a lower probability of spinning.

What is the negative of having the wet side spin? Does that change the way it draws water in? I had the impression that the wet side could be in any orientation as long as it is aligned with the dry side.

[mwood]

jnarowe, is the pump spinning on acrylic causing scratches?

[EcoTech Marine]

There is very little negative to the wet side spinning. the best way to prevent the wetside from spinning is to just not move it after you install it. It will remain in place. It will not cause scratches if it spins as the material that is spinning is VERY soft, and made from rubber.

A few customers have had this happen, most of the time it stops on its own, tightening the pin spacer setting stops it. Either way we're also always trying to improve thus we're testing new materials as well.

-Tim

[jnarowe]

So the spinning doesn't affect the way the pump works and I guess it's really no big deal then. The few people I know who have been using them for a while have never had this problem. Maybe it is an algal issue.

mwood: Don't know yet as I haven't gotten mine. They are waiting for me at the shop but I won't be back in town until the middle of the week. Can't wait to get them!!!!!

[melev]

Jonathan, definitely use the wet seal (rubber gasket). This is part of the math used to assure the proper gap between the inner and outer portion.

Mine never rotates as described.

[jnarowe]

OK. I don't see any problems yet of course but I am trying to keep track of the issues so that I have a better understanding when I install mine. I know you never mentioned them spinning either. I am guessing that an algae film would encourage them to not seat properly though.

Did you do any prep of the seal like swab it with alcohol before installing it?

[Philwd]

Just a real good scrub down of the area the wet gasket was being placed.

[Mike.B]

Alright guys, that did not work the wet side begun to spin after about 6 hours.

No harm done spinning, no. If the wet side spins it takes it out of alignment which equals noise. Also if it continues to spin the wet side spacer will start coming off from behing the pump and causing really loud and hot operation.

As I already said, I scrubbed clean glass, no algae, nothing.

I tried silconing the wet part gasket to the glass, the spacer stayed the wet side spun.

I tried taking out the pin spacer, to stop this..helped, but did not stop the spinning. (1/2" glass)

Now what, I dont want this thing spinning. I dont want to have readjust every few days and what not. Its a great pump just gotta stop this spinning.

[melev]

Just out of curiosity, is your electricity different from ours in the U.S.? I honestly don't know, but wondered if maybe the magnets spin faster due to slightly different current?

Odds are Tim & crew will sort this out. :)

[Mike.B]

So heres what I came home to after work, this is what happenes when it spins.

http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/4310/dsc007506yc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[jnarowe]

Maybe what Melev said about the electrical current has some meaning? If you are running at different cycles maybe it is throwing the unit off a bit?

[wbeavers]

The power is the same in the US, Mexico & Canada. http://www.voltageconverters.com/voltageguide.htm
Is the rubber disc moving or is the wet assembly moving?

[Mike.B]

The wet assembly moves with the disk, but thats the result if left spinning.

When I siliconed the rubber disc to the glass the wet assembly moved on top of the disk. It didnt get spun out like that picture because the silicone held it. However it did come out alignment.

[wbeavers]

Is the motor assembly properly supported? If it is then considering that is on 1/2" material, and setup for 3/4" material, I would have to say that you have a defective magnet that is hindering performance, and allowing the unit to drop away. Sounds like you are going to have to send this to EcoTech Marine for service. Contact sales@ecotechmarine.com they will help you out.

[GSchiemer]

That is very bizarre. It appears that the internal prop unit is aligned but that the gasket slipped. I don't see how that's possible. I've toyed with many of these pumps and never seen that occur. I know that the beta units came with an orange internal gasket and the production units had black internal gaskets. Yours appears to be a white or gray gasket. Is that the original gasket?

[Mike.B]

Its the black gasket, just looks like that in water.

The pump is not slipping down or sliding down the glass, it stays aligned with the pump. Its the gasket the getting pushed up and out heres more pictures. Theres nothing wrong with the pump assembly, if it stays in place it works perfect. Its just the gasket moves out of place. The reason its setup for 3/4" was an attempt to keep it from spinning and it helped, but did not stop it.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1908/dsc007542cp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/833/dsc007575ri.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[wbeavers]

Look at the gasket suface, maybe the wet end magnet or screw is rubbing against the gasket and propelling it up. If it is you should see some sort of wear marks. Just a theory. Does it still have any of the silicone on it?

[wbeavers]

On this picture the pump doesn't seem properly supported. It appears that the cord is pulling away from and to the left of the pump. The cord should be attached according to the directions.
Here is a link to the insruction manual. Please check out the section on attaching the motor assembly.

http://www.ecotechmarine.com/support/vortech/20060606%20VorTech%20Manual%20Version%202.1.pdf

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/833/dsc007575ri.jpg

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7704362#post7704362 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wbeavers
The power is the same in the US, Mexico & Canada. http://www.voltageconverters.com/voltageguide.htm
Is the rubber disc moving or is the wet assembly moving?

It was just a guess.

[NexDog]

Seems like the magnet is either not strong enough (defective) or some kind of grease is causing it to slip.

[wbeavers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7706447#post7706447 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
It was just a guess.
No, offense was intended melev, just ruling out that possability. I only remember this because of the big northeast blackout a few years ago. It came across Ontario and Ohio to Michigan.

[andyjd]

It looks like there is only one gasket fitted. I know your not using the pin spacer, bt i though there should still be two gaskets, one on each side

[phishlet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7707309#post7707309 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by andyjd
It looks like there is only one gasket fitted. I know your not using the pin spacer, bt i though there should still be two gaskets, one on each side

I agree. From the pictures it looks like you are only using one of the gray gaskets. Maybe its just the angles of the pictures but there should be a gasget between the motor and outer glass and a gasket between the inner class (inside the tank) and the propeller housing. Do you have two gaskets?

Just one more thing to rule out.

[mavgi]

wbeavers : try to put the hard gasket instead the gray one .

anyone with the vortec do you check the heat from the speed controller it is little scary . i run the pump for 2 hour on high speed the body was hot (i read about that before) but the speed controller was very hot to . i want to know if someone run the pump all the time on full speed and how much time , realy interesting if the tunze controller hot like that to .

[andyjd]

I know the controller lets out enough heat for adhesive velcro to come unstuck. So mine are now fixed with screws

[mavgi]

i want to hang it on the air because if this thing will burn out it's can be danger . i believe eco tech test that but i don't know how much time they run the pump on full speed and when you run the pump 24/7 on high speed then what will happen to the controller ?

by the way how you run your pump speed ?

[smoknreefrs]

i have been running mine at 75% for about 2 weeks, 24/7 and havent gotten any heatt build-up, noise, or misalignment....

i dont wanna curse myself, but, i havent had any issued thus far...hopefully it will remain that way......

as for the gasket, it does look like you are only using on gasket, there should be a gasket on each side (dry & wet side).

one the dry side, dont confuse the pin spacer as being a gasket, there is a gasket in addition to the pinspacer....

also keep in mind that if you only have one gasket, take a CLOSE look at the gasket you have, b/c the 2 different gaskets have a tendency to stick together (b/c the wet side gasket is SO soft) as stated in a previous post........

also you must support the dry side motor as the instructions state, making sure the cord is facing upward........

hope this helps

[mavgi]

smoknreefrs thank for the replay , you don't have any heat on the speed controller?



wbeavers
patric from eco tech told me if the glass more then 1/2 " thick (3/4") so the hard gasket need to take out , and if it's happen like what we saw in the picture to change the inside gasket ( the soft one gray color) to the hard gasket (the black one)

hope it's help

[strittmatter]

is there word on when the "Multi" controller will be avliable and the price?

[wbeavers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7708371#post7708371 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
wbeavers
patric from eco tech told me if the glass more then 1/2 " thick (3/4") so the hard gasket need to take out , and if it's happen like what we saw in the picture to change the inside gasket ( the soft one gray color) to the hard gasket (the black one)

hope it's help
Uh you are talking to the wrong person. I have two of these and one is a beta test model. I was giving advice to subzero420. Looks like he has an inner and outer gasket to me. I looked at it closely last night, but it is there. Look at the base of the heat sink; you can see the ring.

[wbeavers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7708483#post7708483 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by strittmatter
is there word on when the "Multi" controller will be avliable and the price?
The most recent info I have seen is some time after the first of the year, and no price has been released yet.

[Mike.B]

Im using both gaskets, if you look closely at the pictures you will see it.

I tried switching the 2 gaskets before and it still did not stop it from spinning.

[GSchiemer]

I think you're using the gaskets incorrectly. The latest instructions clearly state: Apply the hard rubber gasket on the OUTSIDE of the aquarium. Place the Vortech motor, with OR without the pin spacer attached, upon the gasket.

Apply the SOFT rubber gasket to the rear of the propeller housing... Connect both halves..

If this doesn't work, I'd contact Ecotech Marine for additional suggestions.