Mircale Mud

[Seajay7]

So is the miracle mudd worth the 70 dollars for a ten pound bag? My LFS guy tried to sell it to me lastnight for my new refugium i am setting up. If it is worth it...where can i score some cheaper?

Chris

[jasonkola]

I have been researching this a little and everything I have read on it is good stuff. I have not seen it any cheaper. In my research I have found that filters sold by ecosystems with miracle mud can support a healthy reef without the need of a protein skimmer. there is time released supplements in this mud that benifit the aquarium. this mud has to be replaced every couple of years when those supplements run out.

[aaron23]

that stuff is overpriced garbage IMO.

[kevin2000]

I suggest you save your money --- unfortunately there are alot of products in this hobby where the mfg spends almost all their money on marketing -- I suspect this is one of them.

[rsteagall]

kent has a great alternative to miracle mud called biosediment. This is what I have in my refugium.

[thedigitalimager]

I don't use it myself, but Mike Paletta has and reports some of his findings in an which you can find using the link below.


http://ww.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/revisited_fall98.html

[thedigitalimager]

Let me try that again.

http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/revisited_fall98.html

[azeli73]

Check out florida pets! I just got a few pounds and couldn't be happier.

http://floridapets.tripod.com/livesand.htm

[jasonkola]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6675505#post6675505 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thedigitalimager
I don't use it myself, but Mike Paletta has and reports some of his findings in an which you can find using the link below.


http://ww.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/revisited_fall98.html

that is interesting. I would like to here an update on how his tank is doing now. I have seen alot of info on short term success with this system. although I have seen vary little long term (5+ years) info on how it performs. although he dose say in where he can be contacted (aqarium systems) I could not find any contact info for him. I wander if he has any more recent articals out on the success of this system? if anybody finds some post them for us please. thanks

[Gobie]

I use it and found it actually does something. I skipped the mud change for three years and noticed that the algae in the sump stopped growing as fast and my xenia wasn’t out of control like it was a couple years earlier, I was ripping it out and selling it. I was now down to a few little spots that wouldn’t spread out. I changed half the mud little over a month ago and now my sump is over grown with algae and the xenia has started multiplying and looking thicker. All that changed was the mud. So what ever is helping the xenia is probably affecting the other corals in a good way. I have the ecosystem sump with 40 lbs of mud, set up without a skimmer. The tank has run like this for five years.

[jasonkola]

thanks that is good info. I wander if that Kent Marine Biosediment works the same? it sure is cheaper. also Gobie do you run the lights on the ecosystem sump 24/7 like the manufacturer recomends. Kent marine says never to do this. I was just curious if it is ok to do this for the long term. also one of the things I was considering doing is feeding my fish the coulerpa that grows in this filter as if is trimmed back. kent marine says not to do this with their system. has any one tried this. I don't see how is can be so bad as these fish feed on this naturally in the wild unless these plants will be absorbing stuff that is not so good for the fish. something in the mud perhaps. this has got me reconsidering that option.

[Gobie]

You can feed some of the algae to the fish. Removing it and selling it or throwing it out, removes waste that was assimilated into the plant. It is good for your fish to eat, but if you feed it all back to the fish they will put this waste back into the system. I keep the refugium lights on 24/7 so it will produce oxygen day and night. Plants use oxygen and produce co2 when the lights are out, also some calerpa will release a substance at night that can yellow your water. This is why it’s a good idea to run your lights 24/7. I use Calerpa Srtularioides in my refugium.

[therealw00]

I have had a "ecosystem" tank setup for about 6 years now...wow I can't believe it was that long ago...and it did great for a very long time without a skimmer and the macroalgae and xenia was uncontrollable however that has gone away over the past 3 or so years and I now have hair algae all over my tank and the plants don't grow so well. I added a skimmer about a year and a half ago and I am not sure if I should replace the mud with sand to make a normal refugium or replace the mud. I think getting rid of the old mud will remedy my algae problems, coraline still grows great and the corals are doing fine.

[jasonkola]

hay therealw00 did you replace half the mud after 2 years and every year therafter like ecosystems recomends? also it is nice to start hearing of some long term results. great info. thanks

[Gobie]

That is exactly what happened to me when I skipped the mud change for three years the xenia stopped spreading and the algae in the sump almost stopped growing. I changed half the mud and the xenia is growing like mad and the sump is over grown with algae. You have to change half of your mud. You will be amazed at the difference a month after the change.

[bergzy]

Miracle Mud Analysis (http://www.reefs.org/library/article/mm_analysis.html)

[therealw00]

I see, I never changed the mud like recommended, when I get around to it I will change the mud out for sand and add some traces.

[jasonkola]

if you are dead set on switching to sand I would say try that kent biosediment. it is much cheaper and looks like it might have much of the same trace elements such as iron ect that help the algae grow. I myself was considering a mix of both when I get the system to save on some bucks. I would be interested to see some results on systems with that biosediment. therealw00 if you try it let us know how it works.

[therealw00]

the marine biosediment is pretty cheap maybe I will try that out, and if anything it is not too much more expensive than plain aragonite

[jasonkola]

let us know how it works for you. I think plain sand or argonite is not going to do you any better than the depleated mud you currently have.

[therealw00]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6700809#post6700809 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jasonkola
let us know how it works for you. I think plain sand or argonite is not going to do you any better than the depleated mud you currently have.

plain aragonite doesn't have the siltyness of the mud which is really annoying if it gets into the water column, it just gets everywhere...main tank, caninster filter

[rustybucket145]

I used Kent Biosediment in a section of my refugium where I planted a Mangrove tree. I did an experiement (small scale) I had two Mangrove seeds, I planted one in the Kent Biosediment and one in regular old Aragonite. The one in the Biosediment is twice as big and looks much healthier than the one in the Aragonite (fine grain). This 'experiment' may not mean much I only used two seeds but the seeds are only planted 10 inches away from each other w/ equal water flow and light.

Just My experiences

[Victoria]

I'm trying an experiment with MM.. I am running it in my fuge/ with out changing it. I did not want to disturbe the pods, which are many.. Then I run some in my canister filter and change that out every couple of months.. I have a 30 cube with out a skimmer. All my coral are growing at a very rapid rate. Tank has been set up for all most a year. see tank in my gallery.
Victoria

[reverendmaynard]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6703591#post6703591 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145
I used Kent Biosediment in a section of my refugium where I planted a Mangrove tree. I did an experiement (small scale) I had two Mangrove seeds, I planted one in the Kent Biosediment and one in regular old Aragonite. The one in the Biosediment is twice as big and looks much healthier than the one in the Aragonite (fine grain). This 'experiment' may not mean much I only used two seeds but the seeds are only planted 10 inches away from each other w/ equal water flow and light.

Just My experiences

Should have planted at least 2 seeds in each side. One seed could be healthier than the other to start. A little less likely that both seeds on one side would start out heathier than both seeds on the other side.

[jasonkola]

I am thinking of setting up a experimental fuge set up with 3 sections of sediment seperated with dividers. then putting it under the same light and water. putting MM in one section and kent biosediment in one and argonite in another. and see how they compare with algae growth. but to be fair I might have to have three seperate fuges to keep suplements from one from leaching over to help out the one next to it.

[therealw00]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6704128#post6704128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Victoria
I'm trying an experiment with MM.. I am running it in my fuge/ with out changing it. I did not want to disturbe the pods, which are many.. Then I run some in my canister filter and change that out every couple of months.. I have a 30 cube with out a skimmer. All my coral are growing at a very rapid rate. Tank has been set up for all most a year. see tank in my gallery.
Victoria

wow, beautiful tank Victoria



I actually used to go to Leng Sy's store in Irvine, CA and look at all his MM tanks...it was quite interesting. I bought my tank directly from him also. This was before he moved locations and started hiring people to work for him.