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ERICinFL
02/04/2006, 08:37 AM
I'm taking a trip to the caribbean and I was curious if anyone has purchased coral from there and shipped it to yourself. If it's legal and the price is right, I have a friend who will receive the shipment for me and put the corals in my tank. Thanks.

SeanT
02/04/2006, 02:01 PM
I do not believe collection from the Carribean is legal without special permits.
Here is a bump for you so someone who knos their laws can chime in.

Sean

DamageInc
02/04/2006, 03:39 PM
Probably need cites depending on if the coral is on the cites list. I was in the bahamas and thinking about importing some but since it is not part of the U.S. I believe customs requires permits.

Not that I have much experience in importing/exporting. just my 2cents.

Nick

reefD
02/04/2006, 04:04 PM
its illegal. yeah special permits are needed but you can not collect anywhere near these vacationing places. most of these island prohibit this as it is a drive for tourist. diving is popular and nothing is taken just viewed by tourist. even the white coral bone that washes up on the beaches is a touchie thing. it is said that this coral bone is what makes the white sand for the beaches and locals dont like to see people collecting it.

ERICinFL
02/04/2006, 09:48 PM
I'm not going to harvest the coral myself, but if there are stores down there that sell them, I need to know if I can purchase and ship them myself.

reefD
02/04/2006, 09:59 PM
there is no market in the carib for LFS. first there are no manufaturers of tanks anywhere out there so a lfs would have to work with an over seas shipper and the costs are outragous. basically you would be paying a whole lot of money for something you can order online from a US distributor for far less money. unless you are planning on becoming a wholesaler or something this idea is a waste of money and most likely a head ache to get through and may not even be possible.
most of the islands in the caribean are dependent on tourism. the point is the people have limited money so what locals would spend all of this money on a reef tank (electricity , equipment,etc imagine the heat issues, most locals dont have A/C)...so basically there is no market for this and thus no fish stores.

reefD
02/04/2006, 10:00 PM
in case i babbled to much. you wont have any luck finding fish stores in caribean. maybe a market to cook and eat fish but none for ornamental use.

ERICinFL
02/04/2006, 11:59 PM
Point taken reefD. :) Thanks for the info.

reefD
02/05/2006, 12:11 AM
no worries! by the way have a great time on your vacation!

the7ferret
02/18/2006, 05:17 AM
I wonder if thier is any place where you can go and get your own coral, fish or rock?

That would be sorta cool considering you could get EXACTLY what you want.

aqualine
02/25/2006, 07:39 AM
It is illegal to harvest corals anywhere in the world without Cities permit.
As for purchasing corals abroad, it equally is illegal to import to mainland USA with Cities permit.
By the way, most corals found in Caribbean stores such as Ocean Trace in Trinidad are purchased from the USA and exported/imported to Trinidad.
So the likelihood of finding better price or variety is slim.
Support your LFS, if they cannot find what your looking for, shop on-line at many of the sponsored shops found here on Reef Central.
Have a safe journey!

RicksReefs
02/25/2006, 08:14 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6823192#post6823192 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aqualine
It is illegal to harvest corals anywhere in the world without Cities permit.



where did you come up with that?

in florida, all you need is a fishing liscense.

in the pacific, all you need is access to water.

running them accross international borders is where a CITIES permit comes in. not the collection itself.

Valab
02/25/2006, 09:24 AM
I don't have any special knowledge about this, but collecting on your own outside of Florida is likely illegal, period.

However, it may possible to do this if you bought from a shop in Puerto Rico or the USVIs and had them package it up and ship it. The last time I was in Puerto Rico there were a few shops listed in the yellow pages but they were too far away from where I was staying for me to actually visit them. You could certainly check the phonebook for aquarium shops at either of those locales and just call and ask.

Even if it is possible, you're not going to save any $ doing it this way.

aqualine
02/25/2006, 11:41 AM
That would be a site to see...One collecting corals with only an issued Florida State fishing license.
Corals are protected for a reason, they are on the endangered species list, the collection/distribution is all governed by CITIES.
Here in the USA, it is prohibited to harvest live rock and any/all corals.
Hawaii has even tougher laws, no collection or allowable importation of corals.
Items such as Algae's, soft items NOT attached to live rock, perhaps acceptable.
But for no reason Scleractinia, Hard Corals in any form can be harvested anywhere in the world with special permits...
Again all governed under CITIES, If you know of someone doing it otherwise, they are ILLEGALLY Harvesting!

justinzimm
02/25/2006, 12:30 PM
The only thing you need in the state to collect soft corals IS a saltwater fishing license.

Here it is strait from FWC's website.

http://myfwc.com/marine/recreational/recharvestmls.htm

Trust me I know.

Justin

aqualine
02/25/2006, 12:52 PM
Right, Algae and Soft corals NOT attached to Scleractinia with approved F&W fishing license.
As far as hard coral or live rock goes, it is strictly prohibited to collect anywhere worldwide.
The discuss of this thread is can you buy corals from abroad and bring to mainland USA.
The answer is no, as they are prohibited for entry unless you have CITIES permits.
Same applies to a wholesale of corals trying to export corals outside of the USA.
Why, because they are regulated under CITIES, period!

Sheol
02/25/2006, 01:05 PM
As far as I know, all collecting of carribean & florida corals is HIGHLY ILLEGAL..

Matthew

Dactyl
02/25/2006, 01:37 PM
all this talk is silly because there are people ive met and even fish stores that collect stuff in the keys and sell it. its a shame really. the police dont enforce anything down here. if you were getting more than your quota of lobster the police would get you but even if you dragged a coral head out of the sea down here i doubt theyd do anything. the police are so apathetic. i see people driving all over without license plates, if they dont even enforce having license plates on the vehicles do you really think theyd give a damn about coral?

justinzimm
02/25/2006, 02:56 PM
Here is a good article on the coral and live rock collecting worldwide. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/10/aafeature1
I read somewhere that the US imports 90% of the worlds wild coral and live rock. I do agree that we should stop collecting most wild corals and use aquaculture more. If really want to do import coral you would have to talk to one of these importers and put your corals on their permit. (for a price).

Justin

RicksReefs
02/25/2006, 05:27 PM
CITIES has nothing to do with collection. period.

it's the Convention on International Trade In Endangered Species.
emphasis on international. professional collectors don't need a CITIES permit inside the US. only if it goes across a border. otherwise normal state and federal laws/agencies are the regulatory and enforcement arm. and if you don't think they care, try snagging some rock. they scope you from a 1/2 mile away and wait for you to trailer your boat so they can take your vehicle too.

CITIES.
http://www.cites.org/common/directy/e_directy.html

Florida regs.
http://myfwc.com/marine/recreational/recharvestmls.htm

michaeldaly
02/27/2006, 11:35 AM
aqualine you say collecting corals anywhere in the world iwithout a cities permit in illegal, thats rubbish many countries have hardly any rules about collecting colrals.

aqualine
02/27/2006, 04:16 PM
Please enlighten us, tell me one Country in the world that can collects and distributes corals freely without CITIES, without any recourse.
What you should have mentioned is -- IGNORANCE --

RamPuppy
02/27/2006, 04:31 PM
your splitting hairs aqualine.

People are trying to point out to you that if some guy in Fiji wants a soft coral for his tank so he swims out, cuts one off the reef, (assuming he has all his local permits) and goes and drops it in his aquarium, then CITIES never enters into the matter.

Your arguing an accepted point, CITIES DOES come into play when coral is shipped to any country that RECOGNIZES CITIES. It govers TRANSPORTATION, not collection.

If I go to the phillipines and purchase an asian arrowana, throw it in a tank in the phillipines and live there with the fish for the next 20 years, I haven't broken the law. But if I want to transport the fish back to the states, then I would have to apply for (and be denied) a cities permit.

tankslave
02/27/2006, 05:10 PM
tag

aqualine
02/27/2006, 06:28 PM
This thread addresses the following:

ERICinFL addressed his question if he can go to the Islands of the Caribbean and purchases corals can he return with them to America...
The answer is NO, as corals are protect endangered species and none permissible for export/import without CITIES.
Now if someone in Fiji or the Philippines or here in the USA wishes to harvest corals for personal use, well that is simply an immoral issue!
Corals are endangered for this specific reason, those who harvest without regard to the laws that protect them.
CITIES helps implement the protection of specific species worldwide!

ganjero
02/28/2006, 02:32 AM
In Venezuela you don't need any permit to collect corals, rock, fish or inverts, as long as you are collecting outside of national parks. Same applies to Curacao and Aruba.
I don't understand why people say that you can't do stuff in other countries when they have never been out of the US.

michaeldaly
02/28/2006, 11:12 AM
I agree with ganjero