fish from Coral Reef on Sylvania? [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

bigdaddyadam

02/07/2006, 02:31 PM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=562350

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=487754

I guess what I am saying is if you look at the two threads above from a while ago you see a LOT of people who have nothing good to say about the place, and now some of the same people are saying it is a good place, has something changed in the last year or are we all afraid to criticize a business?

if they aren't the crap hole everyone led me to believe let me know so I can take the time to go check them out. I just never wanted to waste my time if it was even as close to as bad as everyone said, because it is a bit of a drive for a dive LFS

PS- there are dive bars, so is there too much double meaning in calling someplace a dive LFS?

jenghes

02/07/2006, 02:43 PM

All I will say is - I stand by any of my other comments. I still do not shop there.

Dubbin1

02/07/2006, 03:11 PM

Ahh crap I was thinking of another store (Ocean Trasures) when I said that above. Coral Reef sucks and I will never ever never buy from them again.... I was lied to by the older guy (Lynn) and waisted a trip to Toledo because of it. Sorry for the confusion.

bigdaddyadam

02/07/2006, 03:41 PM

Dwayne after thinking about it I was pretty sure that was the store you were thinking about

miztic

02/07/2006, 05:44 PM

I bought a brain coral there two weeks ago, its happy and appears healthy, it was a little pricy, but not out of line with other LFS prices on corals that I've seen.
We've only been in there twice, talked to Lynn briefly both times, he was very nice and helpfull.
They also carry some critters I haven't seen anywhere else, my only gripe would be that they have a moorish idol in a tiny tank, wish they'd move it into one of the bigger ones.

hllywd

02/07/2006, 06:13 PM

I've been there a few times and they're too rich for my blood. Maybe relation to TR on McCord?!?!?

From the wayback files I did buy a couple fish from them, but it's been a very long time. I did buy sand (Carib Sea) from them for a good price 3 or 4 years ago. They had to order it but nobody else had it either at the time. Everything else seemed "through the roof"!!!
:cool:

bigbenji

02/07/2006, 06:34 PM

So higher prices but the livestock is ok? I was just wondering because I know they used to carry different types of fish than I could find elsewhere, locally.

hllywd

02/07/2006, 07:04 PM

Prices especially and attitude as I remember... Who knows maybe they changed, the doors are still open...

jwreffner

02/07/2006, 08:07 PM

When I've been there the livestock looked good. I have only purchased a Gen-X pump (which I got raped on price) and 50lbs or bali live rock. The rock I bought there was awesome (but expensive). He cut me a break on it. Some of it had zooantids on it and even a Sarcophyton on it...he didn't care about the sarc and let me have it! Too bad my Puffer ate it! It was a small sarc anyways ;)

They have always been nice to me. Jen how did they treat you?

MACDad

02/08/2006, 04:51 AM

I have the same feeling as most of you about this shop. Nice/different fish and good corals. My only real gripe is that they didn't have prices on the corals. I was told to point out the ones I was interested in and they would give me a price. It made me feel like I was being sized as to how much I could afford. I am not saying that this is what was happening or that is their common practice. It just made me uncomfortable.

I have also had mixed experiences with the one inividual that works there. The first visit was good, and the second not so. Have never gone back. I won't go any further on the public forum.

Fred

weimers75

02/08/2006, 08:20 AM

As much as I like going there...its 2 miles down the road...I have to say I agree with MacDad about the prices. I wish they'd post them...it does make you feel uncomfortable, and it would help them too...less questions. I mean how many times do you think they have to quote a price to someone on the same fish/coral?

Aquatic Aquaman

02/08/2006, 09:05 AM

I bought a Sail Fin tang who would eat your hand if you gave him the time from that store over 1 1/2 years ago. He's still ticking and in very healthy conditions. They are very steep on prices but I think their quaility of livestock is very good. Never had a problem with advice from the guy that was there he seem really nice and very helpful. I've only bought stuff there 3 times and everything I got from his store is still alive in my tank.

bigbenji

02/11/2006, 07:49 AM

I stopped in yesterday and made it a point to ask a lot of questions. I don't know her name, but if she didn't know the answer she asked the others and came up with a good one. Their prices seemed right in line with saltwaterfish.com, for these two anyway.
powder brown tang = $35
blue-cheek trigger = $35

jwreffner

02/11/2006, 08:50 AM

Well thats cool...maybe they are reading this thread ;) How did the surgeon and trigger look?

hllywd

02/11/2006, 10:29 AM

Doesn't sound bad at all Ben, I'll have to give them another try. Like I said the good luck I had with them waas on the sand.

:cool:

weimers75

02/11/2006, 11:23 AM

I went in there Wednesday, and got a beautiful pink-spotted goby. He was eating the same day and is still doing well. All of their fish appeared to be healthy. My only complaint was the place was PACKED, I've never seen so many people in there:)

Aquatic Aquaman

02/11/2006, 03:42 PM

Talk about packed. I went to Gary's today and I couldn't move when I was in his store it was so packed. He didn't even have an open parking spot. His buisness is really booming.

bigbenji

02/11/2006, 05:20 PM

I hope he's busy, because his prices are booming too. $70 for an "assorted fairy wrasse" and $115 for a hippo tang? It was big and looked great, but come on. PSP on Airport has the same wrasses for $20, and Copperband Butterflies for $10 less than Gary. I bought a Lubbocks Wrasse. Their tangs don't look so great, but the prices for the tangs are much cheaper too.

weimers75

02/17/2006, 03:11 PM

Went to the Coral Reef today and they had a good selection. I bought a Scribbled Rabbit Fish for $21.95 and a Lavender Tang for $22.95. Both of those prices were better than I could find online. I'm still a fan of this store and the staff was helpful. They even looked up to see if the fish were reef safe.

bigbenji

02/18/2006, 01:36 PM

Well, the tang I picked up looked great and ate everything at the store. He's been eating fine and swimming all over the place, but is avoiding the seaweed selects on the clip. He's eating everything else (flakes, brine & mysis shrimp, pellets) and picking at the rock. Just today I noticed he's got an extremely small white spot on his left front fin. No, I didn't quarantine and probably won't until we move because of lack of space. Anyway, I'm trying the garlic route first. I've read through the fish disease forums but I'm wondering what you guys have tried.

MACDad

02/18/2006, 02:48 PM

I have a bad case of ich in my 75. Have been adding garlic extreme directly to the water for about a week to week and a half. Unfortunately all fish are still sick. The gramma isn't even eating much anymore.

The only benefit I have noticed to garlic is it smells like I am cooking italian when I add it to the tank. Maybe some oregano or basil would do the trick. :D

I do wish it was more effective. If nothing else, I do think it is helping my tangs appetite.

Good luck!
Fred

jwreffner

02/18/2006, 02:59 PM

I use Seachem's Garlic Guard. I soak the frozen food in it...about every other day's feedings. I have never had any diseases with my current tankmates (knock on wood). I did QT them all a month before they hit my 55 FOWLR though. I would keep up with the garlic just in case.

Also, my PBT somehow got a deep injury on his dorsal fin right at the base where it joins his blue body a few weeks ago...I soaked every feeding in Garlic Guard and also stepped up his feedings of seaweed just to keep him fat and happy. I'm pleased to announce that the wound never got infected and is almost completely gone in about 2 weeks time.

I'm feeding my tang all 3 Seaweed Selects and all 3 SeaVeggies from Two Little Fishies. Just my two cents...

Jay

bigbenji

02/18/2006, 05:13 PM

Has anyone tried increasing the temp in the tank? Its supposed to speed up the life cycle of the ich, according to other threads.

Maybe I should try soaking the seaweed with garlic.

selgado

02/18/2006, 05:25 PM

I add garlic supplements to my frozen and I also soak my nori in it before feeding. I have had zero out-breaks of ich since starting about 1 1/2 years ago.

bigbenji

02/18/2006, 05:37 PM

There's that word NORI again. Where the heck can I get NORI? Don't tell me the asian section at Kroger because I couldn't find it.

Do you guys quarantine for a month?

Dubbin1

02/18/2006, 06:08 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6773021#post6773021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigbenji
There's that word NORI again. Where the heck can I get NORI? Don't tell me the asian section at Kroger because I couldn't find it.

http://www.koamart.com/search.asp?key=Parae+Non-seasoned+Seaweed+for+Sushi&go.x=17&go.y=18

bigbenji

02/18/2006, 06:13 PM

Dang, you have to order it online? I thought someone would have it locally.

(and now Dwayne says "check the asian section at Kroger"
:blown:

Dubbin1

02/18/2006, 06:42 PM

You can get it at just about and LFS but I order it online MUCH cheaper.

selgado

02/18/2006, 06:51 PM

I get mine from the asian store on Laskey at Douglas next to Marcos Pizza. I think it was $3.99 for 100 sheets.

bigbenji

02/18/2006, 07:32 PM

Man, as long as he eats it. Should I worry about a tang who won't eat algae sheets? He eats mysis & brine shrimp, prime reef flakes, formula 2 pellets, and he's picking at the rocks too. He's also swimming all over the place and doesn't seem to be bothered by anything except my kids.

selgado

02/18/2006, 08:08 PM

What kind of tang?

bigbenji

02/18/2006, 08:21 PM

its a sohal

kidding, its a clown tang
(there's one at PSP for $25)

haha, its a unicorn

this is fun,
ok, its a blue (hippo)

selgado

02/18/2006, 08:35 PM

I tell ya. Having a conversation with you fowlr people is like talking to a hunk of live rock.

weimers75

02/18/2006, 08:38 PM

I have used Kick-Ich in my reef before with great results. I used according to the "Heavy-infestation" directions even though mine wasn't heavy. I tried once with regular dosage and it didn't clear up, but it did clear up when I used the heavy dosage. I have crabs, shrimp, and coral...everything turned out fine. Just be sure to turn off the skimmer or you'll fill it up quickly.

bigbenji

02/18/2006, 08:39 PM

Hey, I have a shroom... and its still alive. :D

selgado

02/18/2006, 09:46 PM

Make that base rock.:hmm1:

bigbenji

02/18/2006, 10:44 PM

Thanks weimers, that's exactly the info I was looking for.

John, go kiss your pug's butt. :p
Oh, and I'm going to buy some xenia from Nathan. Will I be a reefer then?

OneThunder

02/19/2006, 11:07 PM

I did today. One of those goby fishes that clean the bottom. Looks very healthy. Shop was clean, tanks were clean. The gentleman was very helpful and knowledgeable. Quite a few people in there purchasing.

MACDad

02/20/2006, 07:06 AM

Well, garlic didn't work for me (at least not fast enough). Found my Kole tang dead this morning :(

No, I didn't buy it from Coral reef, just the local PSP. I was just continuing the conversation regarding use of garlic for ich.

Fred

bigbenji

02/20/2006, 08:47 AM

I think I'll grab some kick-ich. Sorry to hear about your kole. Some on RC called it the absolute coolest fish.

bigbenji

02/22/2006, 03:05 PM

Well, I bought a cleaner shrimp, and kick-ich just in case. 2 days and there are no signs of ich on the tang, woohooo. Now I'll just keep adding the garlic with the temp raised for a month and hopefully kill these guys once and for all!! If it comes back I'll have to try the kick-ich.

OneThunder

02/22/2006, 03:33 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6802699#post6802699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigbenji
Well, I bought a cleaner shrimp, and kick-ich just in case. 2 days and there are no signs of ich on the tang, woohooo. Now I'll just keep adding the garlic with the temp raised for a month and hopefully kill these guys once and for all!! If it comes back I'll have to try the kick-ich.

Well, my paranoia paid off. I think I see little white specs on the fin of my box fish. And one on the tail of my clown fish. Please Please tell me what to do. I have read hundreds (well may be not hundreds but quite a few) remedies for ick. Keep in mind I have no other tank. Or filters. I can't get a cleaner shrimp, Spot will eat it. Some say the garlic is vodoo medicine. Some say increasing the water temp will tax the metabolism of the fish and make them more suceptible to the ick. I love my little buddies. I don't want them to be SICK or STRESSED.

weimers75

02/22/2006, 05:06 PM

Like I said before, I liked Kick-Ich. Just be sure to use the "heavy-infestation" dosage. Bigbenji, remember Ich often disappears for a few days and returns with a vengeance. If you started the Kick-Ich cycle I'd finish it:)

jwreffner

02/22/2006, 06:25 PM

Well, before you can make a recommendation on how to treat the disease weimers75, don't you need to know what is in OneThunder's tank?

OneThunder what are the inhabitants of your tank? Lowering SG maybe an option (depending on the inhabitants), copper may be an option (depending on the inhabitants), Paraguard may also be an option etc... There are many ways to skin the cat. Boxfish are sensitive little guys! ;)

Thanks,
Jay

Dubbin1

02/22/2006, 06:25 PM

I have had really good luck with nox-ich. Its in a blue bottle and most LFS have it.

OneThunder

02/22/2006, 06:40 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6804104#post6804104 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jwreffner
Well, before you can make a recommendation on how to treat the disease weimers75, don't you need to know what is in OneThunder's tank?

OneThunder what are the inhabitants of your tank? Lowering SG maybe an option (depending on the inhabitants), copper may be an option (depending on the inhabitants), Paraguard may also be an option etc... There are many ways to skin the cat. Boxfish are sensitive little guys! ;)

Thanks,
Jay

Dog face puffer
Cow fish
keyhole angel
clown fish
2 "rock eating' gobys
2 marine catfish
a little guy that is mostly white, has black and yellow (go Steelers!) that looks like a small angel fish
Red emporer snapper

I saw a tiny white speck on the clown fish top fin yesterday, today it is gone, but there is one on his tail today.

I almost forgot the live rock

Dubbin1

02/22/2006, 06:43 PM

I forgot to mention that I never tried the nox-ich in a reef tank.

selgado

02/22/2006, 06:58 PM

I've used Kick ich to initially knock out ich in my tank. I used it at the heavy infestion level because the lower dosage didn't work. It is completely reef safe and I have not heard any negative reaction to reef inhabitants. I use garlic guard as a preventative measure.

bigbenji

02/22/2006, 08:43 PM

The Ich life-cycle is supposed to take about a month, and increasing the temperature of the tank is supposed speed up that life cycle. By how much I have no idea, but once I start treating I'll increase the temp. and treat for an entire month, maybe even longer. I can't find any resources that come right out and say "safe for invertebrates". Most of the documents throw in disclaimers by saying things like "safe for MOST fish and invertebrates". Since I only have 1 coral, a few crabs and snails, and now 1 cleaner shrimp, I think I'll take my chances and start using the kick-ich.

OneThunder, where did you buy your setup and fish? Also, how big will that red snapper get?

bigdaddyadam

02/22/2006, 09:14 PM

I've used kick-ich before, and I found it to be witch's brew ie. doesn't work, even at 2 times the recommeded dosage. also keep in mind if you use copper then that tank can NEVER again be used as a reef tank, it leeches into everything, including the glue that holds the tank together. hypo may be an option but it can be very stressful to fish as well, and not all fish take to it as well as some, research how each fish will take to hypo, which would be easier if all the experts hadn't bailed, try asking on one of their forums, prefereably Calfo's.

I had some bad ich with my current fish a time back, but by thining the fishload, better water, more room and good feeding they have never had a spot since.

I believe you said you have a 75 gallon? you also have 11 fish, that in my humble opinion can lead to ich outbreaks. I would really consider returning a few of the larger fish and the stress for the rest will go WAY down. you should see much happier fish then. I personally only have 3 fish in my 55 and will not be adding anymore, except possibly a mandarin once the pods get a little more built up. but the mandarin's are so passive they almost don't even count towards the fishload.

what does everyone else think about this? reduce fish? just consider that 11 fish in a 75 gives each fish only about 6.8 gallons a piece, and that is before rockwork, and not considering that some of those fish are rather large fish.

I don't want to seem like I am telling you what to do, but I think that load will be big headaches both now and in the future.

jwreffner

02/22/2006, 09:30 PM

bigdaddyadam,
I disagree with you on the copper statement of it NEVER being able to be used again for a reef tank. Check out the second to last Q/A from Seachem on their Cupramine product:
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine_faq.html

BTW, what does this all have to do with the Coral Reef on Sylvania???

Jay

bigbenji

02/22/2006, 09:41 PM

oh, did we go off topic again? I never would've guessed. ;)

bigdaddyadam

02/22/2006, 11:21 PM

hey, the topic got to ich.

seachem can say what they want, I have read NUMEROUS posts by MANY people that say copper contaminates the silicon seals, and these were posts in expert forums and the like. I would error on the side of caution in any case, because it will contaminate other things. also, I have to say I don't trust much of anything said by any company that sells reef chemical products. almost all of them make some kind of crazy claim about some crazy product they have that is usually based on anecdotal evidence and not scientific study.

I hate to say it but garlic is one of these things. while it may entice fish to eat, all the crazy claims that it heals ich have NEVER been even close to proven by anyone, and yet they all claim it on their labels.

I think it's high time that all these snake oil medications got the old heave ho and we all agreed to stop letting them fleece us for what amounts to nothing.

there are proven ways to fix almost any problem in a reef tank but people usually want a quick fix like a $10 bottle of "miracle" cure that they can drop a few drops and presto, problem solved.

the real problem is that most good solutions take a little more effort than this, but end up being easier in the long room, if at least on the pocket book.

if nothing else, people seem to forget that copper based medication is not very healthy for fish either and is no substitute for quarantine, of which I am sad to say I was guilty of not doing in the past on fish either

I would be concerned that someone try copper in an almost new tank on this many fish, especially given that the problem stems from obvious overstocking.

what is needed from the LFS community is honest advice about stocking loads in aquaria for new reefers. instead we get places willing to allow someone who doesn't know better yet to fill their tank way past capacity. I'm sorry I am ranting but they did the same thing to me when I first started and I lost all kinds of livestock because of it, then they sold me snake oil like kick-ich which did nothing other than kill inverts as well.

I really dislike almost every LFS in the area as a bunch of idoits who know next to nothing, other than how to work a register, Gary's being the exception, and maybe ocean treasures

bigdaddyadam

02/22/2006, 11:27 PM

took me 3 minutes to find this, and probably would have taken me less to find a good link if the search engine on RC was ever actually on. if you do a lengthy search you will find a lot more links to back this up I am sure.

okay, actually I forgot about the UA and that we can't link to "other boards", stupid policy IMHO, but I figured I would just copy/paste a short quote and if anyone wants the link I'll PM it

"The most soluble forms of Copper that are easily formed under the circumstanceswould be the chloride and sulfate salts, pretty common in seawater as anions as well. Biggest problem is that the silicon doesn't allow it to leach into the body of the silicone sealant itself, but that any that gets past the edges of the seals will embed itself into the silicone bead, where the silicon then acts like a sponge, slowly leaching it back into the water column over time. Stripping out the sealant bead will prevent this from occurring, and you should then clean the entire tank with bleach to make the copper as soluble as possible with the chlorine (copper chloride). Allow the tank to air dry for a few days, then clean the entire tank with muratic acid. Rinse with water with at least 4 washes to remove any residual acid and fill the tank with fresh water. Add Baking soda at the rate of 1 tbs per 10 gal of tank volume, Allow this to stand for at least 6 hours, then completely drain the tank and flush with fresh water for several hours. Empty the tank, allow it to drain, then allow it to dry at at least 65F for 48 hours. Then rebead the joints with new silicon sealant. This should remove any detectable amounts of copper. Follow Doug's advice on filling the tank with freshwater and allow it to stand for a few days, then test for the presence of copper. No guarantees on this method, and as cheap as tanks are relative to the cost of losing coral specimens, I would not take a chance and either use the tank for a FOWLR setup or turn it into a terrarium. By the time you've purchaced the cleaning items and neutralized the copper removal substances and included your time, you could have worked some extra at work and bought a new tank instead. Although this method should pretty much remove the copper, I don't recommend working with these substances unless you have experience with them. They are both caustic and toxic, and require good ventilation and protective cloathing/gloves/eye protection to be handled safely. A small accident can have extremely long-lasting implications. Best to just get a new tank.

This will work only for the bare tank; the rock will be a loss for invert care. You can use it for the FOWLR setup, but any corals you introduce will be at risk for quite some time, most likely to fail to thrive until their premature death or until they are consumed by scavengers. They will not be able to fight them off as they die."

bigdaddyadam

02/22/2006, 11:47 PM

after further reading it MAY be possible to get most of the copper out in the future if tank is totally torn down, but seems like a HUGE ordeal, not to mention ALL rock and substrate will be worthless, leaching copper back into system, and over long time this could kill the fish itself, after all copper is toxic to fish as well, you just need more exposure for them to die than inverts.

If you need a solution hypo is better, at least better than copper, but you will need a good salinty monitor or refractometer to know exact salinity so you don't go too low. if you MUST use copper, I would buy a few cheap tanks and do it in those rather than the display.

I think if you do some reading you will find that a lot of people are against copper for a variety of reasons and I tend to agree with them, my 2 cents, I'm done :)

bigbenji

02/23/2006, 12:35 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6806356#post6806356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
my 2 cents, I'm done :)

That's more like $3 dude, and that just happens to be the rent on this soapbox. :D

Thanks for the info, and you're right about the $10 bottle of miracle crap.

OneThunder

02/23/2006, 04:22 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6805246#post6805246 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigbenji
The Ich life-cycle is supposed to take about a month, and increasing the temperature of the tank is supposed speed up that life cycle. By how much I have no idea, but once I start treating I'll increase the temp. and treat for an entire month, maybe even longer. I can't find any resources that come right out and say "safe for invertebrates". Most of the documents throw in disclaimers by saying things like "safe for MOST fish and invertebrates". Since I only have 1 coral, a few crabs and snails, and now 1 cleaner shrimp, I think I'll take my chances and start using the kick-ich.

OneThunder, where did you buy your setup and fish? Also, how big will that red snapper get?

The last fish I got was from Coral Reef, that little "rock eating" goby. (I don't see anything on her)
Before that, I got the key hole angel from Sweet Feed in Lambertville (she's quite dark and I don't see anything on her either)
The only ones I see it on is the snapper,the cowfish and the clownfish I got those from Ocean Treasures.
NONE of them had it at the time of purchase, I was really picky about looking them over, I spent over an hour a piece watching them and checking them out )
What is really killing me is that I've grown to love each and every little creature, they have their own personalities....
Worst case senerio, how big does a "quarantine" tank have to be?

:(

OneThunder

02/23/2006, 04:37 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6805506#post6805506 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
hypo may be an option but it can be very stressful to fish as well, and not all fish take to it as well as some, research how each fish will take to hypo, which would be easier if all the experts hadn't bailed, try asking on one of their forums, prefereably Calfo's.

Okay, sure, What is CALFO? an acronym for a reef club on this site?

[/QUOTE] I had some bad ich with my current fish a time back, but by thining the fishload, better water, more room and [/QUOTE]

if all the test come out in the ranges, isn't that good?

[/QUOTE] good feeding [/QUOTE]
What is considered good feeding? Spot and Beauty get krill, the rest get brine shrimp. I throw an occasional vitamin and algae flake in there. Hubby complains the have "pot bellies" and if anyone goes near the tank, they are all begging for food.

[/QUOTE] they have never had a spot since.[/QUOTE]

Would splitting the fish into two tanks work? (oh this is going to cost me....)

[/QUOTE] I believe you said you have a 75 gallon? you also have 11 fish, that in my humble opinion can lead to ich outbreaks. I would really consider returning a few of the larger fish and the stress for the rest will go WAY down. [/QUOTE]

a few?? they all seem to get along well, no fights,

[/QUOTE] you should see much happier fish then. I personally only have 3 fish in my 55 and will not be adding anymore, except possibly a mandarin once the pods get a little more built up. but the mandarin's are so passive they almost don't even count towards the fishload.[/QUOTE]

passivity is a factor in counting fish?

[/QUOTE] what does everyone else think about this? reduce fish? just consider that 11 fish in a 75 gives each fish only about 6.8 gallons a piece, and that is before rockwork, and not considering that some of those fish are rather large fish.[/QUOTE]

how bout if I take some rock out?

[/QUOTE]
I don't want to seem like I am telling you what to do, but I think that load will be big headaches both now and in the future.

[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your advise, even if I don't like it, I want to do right by my friends.

OneThunder

02/23/2006, 04:54 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6806356#post6806356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam

If you need a solution hypo is better, at least better than copper, but you will need a good salinty monitor or refractometer to know exact salinity so you don't go too low. if you MUST use copper, I would buy a few cheap tanks and do it in those rather than the display.

okay, it looks like we are going to have our hands full this weekend. Do you think this is a good plan?
I already found out my "hydro meter" is junk.
so for my "hospital" tank I need:

refractometer
new tank
filter
heater
Thermometer

(do I have to put any sand or coral in the bottom?)

now.

I treat the fish in the hospital tank with low saltwater
I treat the display tank with SUPER low saltwater (will this kill my rock?)

how long will they have to be in the "hospital"?? How big does it have to be?

I know this Hospital tank will be stressful, with no rock to hide behind and stuff, but I see display tanks with fish in them with no rock....

should we have started a new thread for this?

weimers75

02/23/2006, 07:57 AM

I am certainly not an expert, but it seems to me that using hypo salinity, catching all your fish and putting them in a "stressful" hospital tank is extreme. I used the Kick-ich for that reason alone. If it doesn't end up working for you, then do all the measures suggested above. But, in my opinion, spending $20 and solving the problem is a whole lot less stressful on me and my tank inhabitants. Like I said, if it doesn't work...it didn't hurt anything. By the way, I have tons of inverts and corals in my tank, Kick-ich didn't hurt anything.

hllywd

02/23/2006, 08:10 AM

FYI

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=REFRACT-AS&Category_Code=Hydrometer

Dubbin1

02/23/2006, 08:15 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6807624#post6807624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd
FYI

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=REFRACT-AS&Category_Code=Hydrometer

Does this mean that you are done stealing mine :)

hllywd

02/23/2006, 08:21 AM

:rolleyes: :D

:love1:

I hope I said thank you...:cool:

bigbenji

02/23/2006, 08:28 AM

Dang, great link. The cheapest I could find was $40. BTW, premium aquatics will get it to you in 1-2 days via ups ground. :D

hllywd

02/23/2006, 09:03 AM

Their customer service has been great when I've purchased things from them in the past!!!:thumbsup: I got an email from them about the refracto about the same day I borrowed Dwaynes....:D

Honestly the 3 main mail order places I've dealt with are PremiumAquatics.com, Championlighting.com, and Hellolights.com. I've had very good service with all of them...

Dubbin1

02/23/2006, 09:08 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6807720#post6807720 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd

I hope I said thank you...:cool:

You always do :)

bigdaddyadam

02/23/2006, 10:29 AM

one thunder, if you are doing hypo on a fish only tank, you should be able to do it in the main tank, may take a small toll on liverock, but it won't kill it, just make sure it is GRADUAL.

also, perhaps I need to clarify what I meant before, just because the fish don't constantly pick at each other does not mean they aren't stressed from a high fishload. 11 fish in a 75 is like having 8 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment. you all might love each other but eventually being in that close a quarers can take it's toll, leading to stress based diseases.

bigbenji

02/23/2006, 01:28 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6808626#post6808626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
8 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment all might love each other leading to diseases.

lol

OneThunder

02/23/2006, 04:47 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6807543#post6807543 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weimers75
I am certainly not an expert, but it seems to me that using hypo salinity, catching all your fish and putting them in a "stressful" hospital tank is extreme. I used the Kick-ich for that reason alone. If it doesn't end up working for you, then do all the measures suggested above. But, in my opinion, spending $20 and solving the problem is a whole lot less stressful on me and my tank inhabitants. Like I said, if it doesn't work...it didn't hurt anything. By the way, I have tons of inverts and corals in my tank, Kick-ich didn't hurt anything.

after thinking about it a long time and considering the exact things you cited above....I went to Gary's and got some kick ick. It was $48 and we are going to do it.
I can't bear the thought of stressing my fish out anymore than they already are. The guy there said my best bet would be to get another tank about a 29 gallon and let Spot live in there by himself, I have too many "big" fish. Not that they are big now, but they will be. I forgot to ask if I need to put any rock in there.
He said my marine cats would get huge and so would my cowfish and snapper.
I think from now on, I'm only going there.

I did see some HUGE tanks. and some beautiful corals. And I looked at the fish even tho I know I can't have any. Very nice ones.
and he said my bio ball system is not obsolete.
and Yes, he said I'm feeding too much. Technically, too often. Once a day or once every other day. It's going to be hard to see that pitiful little face and not give him krill.....
BUT I'm going to do right by my little buddies.
:)

OneThunder

02/23/2006, 05:02 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6807673#post6807673 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
Does this mean that you are done stealing mine :)

This is a good price. My Drs Foster and Smith have one ON SALE for 42.99
:rolleyes:

weimers75

02/23/2006, 05:36 PM

Wow! $48 is a lot, but I know that local prices would be high. Marine Depot sells the large size for less than 1/2!

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_medications_ruby_reef.asp?ast=&key=

bigbenji

02/23/2006, 07:09 PM

He told me he'll have the smaller size in tomorrow (friday).

bigdaddyadam

02/23/2006, 08:51 PM

this is the last I will say about kick-ich and it's this, if it really tricks the parasites into thinking they have real food, but it is "non-nutritous", the wouldn't all kinds of good things in the tank eat it and get no nutrition also, leading to poor health?

I used the stuff twice for ich, first time it didn't work at all, and second time I used the "heavy" does and it not only did not work but several inverts died and I got a bad cyano outbreak, I could find no other reason than kick-ich for this.

you will say well, what's the harm in trying? the harm is this, every day using kick-ich is a day that the parasites are multiplying instead of getting erradicated by a proven method like hypo, or yes copper, and in the interum you could lose several fish. it just amounts to laziness to use kick-ich, and believe me I know, cause that was why I tried it.

I'm telling you mine went away with NO other intervention except better feeding, higher water quality, and more space by having less fish.

bigbenji

02/23/2006, 09:32 PM

Could you describe what you mean by "better feeding"? Does this mean better quality vitamin-enriched foods, or feeding less often, or something different?

selgado

02/23/2006, 11:11 PM

bigdaddyadam

02/23/2006, 11:52 PM

it used to say that on the bottle itself. I had an old bottle and that is how it said it worked, but perhaps they have changed their "story"

ben, by better feeding I mean, more frozen and less flake, good quality flake like formula 1 or the like, lots of algea for the tang, cyclopeeze, garlic, to entice better feeding, not to combat ich directly, switched to mysis and frozen "zooplankton" from San Fransico Bay Company instead of crappy old brine shrimp that had no nutritional value, fed smaller amounts more often, two small feedings a day, until my fish are fat happy and healthy.

if you are currently combating ich I recommend these they are very nutrious and have a moisture content that helps fish digest them well, I used them with great success, fish went ape *^^%& for them.
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_fish_food_sweetwater_zooplankton.asp?CartId=

if you can get frozen cyclopeeze it's good too, even better than freeze dried which is what I use.

I really think diet plays a big role in why I don't see ich anymore. much of the literature I have read says that a healthy fish can easily fight off ich, meaning that it's only when stress, overcrowding. insufficient or over feeding, bad water quality, shipping stress etc combine that they can cause this type of problem, but don't take my word for it, do some more research.

this is of course assuming that you are at the initial stages of infestation, not a full blown epidemic. if all fish have moderate or several fish have severe infestations then you may want to consider hypo or copper in addition to the steps outlined above. again I will say that all I have read says that either hypo or copper are very stressful, copper is also toxic to fish if you even overdose just a little too much, so number one priority is to minimize all other stress other than the treatment, and feed good nutritious food, selcon may also benefit but I have no direct experience with it.

as far as the above comments about raising temp to speed up life cycle I would think this a bad idea. all reading into crypto I have done suggests that the parasite itself rarely kills the fish, it is secondary infections caused by the bursting of the parasites through the flesh of the fish that usually kill, so if you speed up life cycle you are getting more bursting and causing more damage to the fish, if anything I would think you would want to slow down the lifecycle unless it would benifit, such as when using treatment, to shorten treatment time, ie. copper or hypo, if not doing these I could not see the benefit of raising temp, but you may want to go to one of the more senior RC members for better advice on this than I can provide.

bigdaddyadam

02/24/2006, 12:30 AM

this article and the second part a month or two later on should give you all the treatmets for ich and an explaination of each, whith pros and cons. this link is the proven ones

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

and this is the ones that are more "out there"

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

bigdaddyadam

02/24/2006, 12:57 AM

after completely reading the above articles I again would caution you about using copper as several of your fish are among the "sensative" fish that don't do well with copper.

in addition I would do some reading on other marine diseases, because marine velvet and brooknella are often mistaken as ich by even seasoned aquariasts.

I am especially suspect that the main infected fish is a clown, it could be brooknella, aka clownfish disease, I lost 2 to this when firs starting out.

sorry if I seem to be riding this thread gard but I know how taxing ich can be, 9 times out of 10 when a new person suddenly quits the hobby it is over frustration with ich or cyano, or hair algea, or some other thing that can be fixed if proper information is gathered.

there was a point at which I almost gave up the first time I had a total tank outbreak and all my fish died from ich, but I rebuilt and am so glad I did, this really is the most rewarding hobby I have ever had.

do your reading, ask LOTS of questions, and most importantly when the well seasoned (people who have been at it for MANY years, not me for sure) tell you something, LISTEN. I always figure those people with the 15 year old reefs are doing things right, even if it's old fashioned.

OneThunder

02/24/2006, 04:52 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6813446#post6813446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
this is the last I will say about kick-ich and it's this, if it really tricks the parasites into thinking they have real food, but it is "non-nutritous", the wouldn't all kinds of good things in the tank eat it and get no nutrition also, leading to poor health?

Actually kick-ich main active ingredient is 5-nitroimidazoles which, in effect is an ant-microbial.both antiprotozoal and antibacterial activity. To be specific it is like fladgyl, used in human beings. From my nursing background, it doesn't really "trick" the parasite into thinking anything, it kills them.Technically, it interfers with the energy production in the DNA. It is actually a 15 day treatment. Much like an antibiotic in humans, you need to use the entire regimen of medicine in order to eradicate the organism or yes, it will come back with a vengence. In human beings, the misuse of antibiotics (not taking the entire dose, not taking the entire time) has caused a mutation of the organism that becomes resistant to the medicine. An example would be the MRSA or methacillin resistance Stap aureas, which is prevalent in hospitals because of that very reason.
Most of my internet reading on the message boards points to using kick ick for several days, and it specifically says to use for 14 days. I can liken these senerios to people not using their antibiotics for the specified length of time, (ie- they feel better so they stop taking the medicine- the fish have no white spots so they stop treatment).

"tricking" them may be the interference with the dna. I don't believe it is the "lazy" way. If it doesn't work, I will have to proceed with a more drastic remedy cited in the articles.
:(

weimers75

02/24/2006, 06:59 AM

bigdaddyadam, I really have to disagree with believing the Kick-Ich killed the inverts in your tank (unless of course they changed formulas). Like Onethunder said, the nitros kill the bacteria and help prevent infections. At the time I last used Kick-Ich, I had 3 Peppermints, a Skunk Shrimp, 2 rock anemones, crabs, and snails...not to mention several rare acros and corals. Nothing died from the treatment. I have used the treatment two times over the course of several years. The most recent time being several months ago and the fish have been clean since.

In regard to food, I do not feed my fish flake food. They receive a variety of frozen food (mysis, krill, brine shrimp, mussel) and cyclopeeze. These were the foods you suggested, and they still had Ich. Maybe it was a combination of the food and the treatment, but whatever it was - it worked. I did not do it because I was lazy...I don't feel that dismantling the tank to catch 4 fish was worth it, not to mention take them out of their home and into a barren hospital tank. That only adds to the stress you mentioned. Additionally, copper and hypo add TONS of stress which can lead to other problems.

I have to disagree...there is no harm in trying Kick-Ich in my opinion.

Dubbin1

02/24/2006, 07:58 AM

If everyone would just quarantine there fish like they should be doing and stop introducing ich into their tank in the first place then this disagreement can end. IMO the only sure fire way to get rid of ich is hypo. BTW weimers, hypo is not as hard on a fish as you think it is.

jwreffner

02/24/2006, 09:44 AM

I agree with Dubbin1. QT is essential.

bigbenji

02/24/2006, 10:15 AM

<---- setting up a qt right now :D, but have no idea where to put it. I haven't told the wife yet either. I can hear it already, "another tank?!!!!"

I may have to put this in the basement, where we usually keep it colder. Has anyone ever tried using a large heater to heat up a small tank, because the room temperature was way low (60-ish)?
Of course I'll have it set up and at normal temps before I put anything in it.;)

jwreffner

02/24/2006, 10:56 AM

My basement is the same way. I just doubled the heater wattage...works fine.

bigbenji

02/24/2006, 11:09 AM

sweet, thanks.

bigdaddyadam

02/24/2006, 12:49 PM

well, I am TELLING you that the kick bottle I last bought said that it was a "non-nutritous food source", perhaps that was all BS

additionally, do a good hard search of kick-ich that doesn't involve dealers, and you will find MANY people who claim large invert losses after using it.

if it works for you, hey great, it's your tank, and I suppose to those who don't care it's easier to take a chance and if it doesn't work replace all the fish.

at the root of the problem however is the overcrowding issue, even if you get rid of the ich, you are likely going to have other problems related to the stress of inhabitants either now or in the future.

seriously, I am not a hardcore member of the tang police or the like, I have a perfectly happy moderately large tang in a 55, which some would say is grossely too small. however you will have a hard time finding anyone other than a LFS that will agree that 11 fish in a 75 is not way too much. even if you only returned
2 or 3 of the larger fish you will be MUCH better off, also I would recommend more reading into cowfish as Ben suggested, the Pet Supplies Plus in Toledo lost almost all of their fish in the entire system last year due to a cowfish suicide that poisoned all the other fish.

bigbenji

02/24/2006, 02:50 PM

Sweet Feed on Navarre had a cowfish in their system a last year. Now they seem to have given up on saltwater altogether. The saltwater setup they had (similar to Coral Reef) sat vacant for 2 months. I can only imagine what happend.

OneThunder

02/24/2006, 07:54 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6817650#post6817650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
also I would recommend more reading into cowfish as Ben suggested, the Pet Supplies Plus in Toledo lost almost all of their fish in the entire system last year due to a cowfish suicide that poisoned all the other fish.

When I can bring myself to do this, who would take my cowfish?:(

OneThunder

02/24/2006, 08:03 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6814703#post6814703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
or hair algea, or some other thing that can be fixed if proper information is gathered.

Hair algea??What is hair algea??:eek1:

OneThunder

02/24/2006, 08:13 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6815634#post6815634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
If everyone would just quarantine there fish like they should be doing and stop introducing ich into their tank in the first place then this disagreement can end..

Never once did the guy that sold us our tank ever mention a "quarantine tank". Just a lot of instructions about curing the live rock and not putting fish in it until it's cycled. How long should you keep a fish in a "qt" after you buy it? how big are your quarantine tanks? Do you put sand or crushed coral or nothing in the bottom? Do you run a protein skimmer in a qt? :confused:

jenghes

02/24/2006, 08:29 PM

I hope these help answer your questions...

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

OneThunder

02/25/2006, 08:36 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6817650#post6817650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
well, I am TELLING you that the kick bottle I last bought said that it was a "non-nutritous food source",

.
I am looking at the bottle right now. Here is the front:
Ruby Reef
Reef Safe! No Copper!
Kick-Ich, (TM), for the treatment of freshwater and marine Ich. Safe for all fish, corals and invertebrates. Kick Ich (TM)

The back:
Kick Ich (TM)

-biodegradable
-Safe for Nitrosomonas,Nitrobacter and other bacteria essential to biofiltration.
-Easy dose bottle
Directions
For 15 day treatment
Begining on day #1 add 2.0 ozs of Kick-Ich (TM) for each 25 gallons of total water volume for the entire aquarium + filter system(s). Repeat on days #4,#7,#10,and #13 whether or not spots continue to be visible. (For heavy infestations repeat on days #3,#5,#7 #10 and #13} Persistent infections may require repeating the cycle. Do not use carbon or similar absorbent media during treatment(phosphate absorbents are OK). Protein skimmers can appreciably reduce effectiveness of the treatment. Safe for all fish (including scaless fish),plants corals and invertebrates. Will not affect biofiltration.

WARNINGS
Safe when used in combination with RAlly (TM), but not recommended for use with other treatments, chemicals or drugs. NOT FOR HUMAN OR ANIMAL USE OR CONSUMPTION. FOR HOBBY AQUARIUM FISH ONLY.NOT FOR USE IN AQUACULTURE OR FOR THE PRODUCTION OF COMMODITITIES FOR HUMAN OR ANIMAL CONSUMPTION.
Active ingredients: 5-nitroimidazoles
Ruby Reef, Inc. Silver spring MD 20904

bigdaddyadam

02/25/2006, 06:48 PM

yeah, I just checked it out when I was at the store earlier today, it appears that they changed the label on the back of the bottle because it is different than the last bottle that I bought a few years back. what that means I have no idea, but I distinctly remember what it used to say.

however, even if I AM wrong about what the label used to say, irregardless, if you really want your ich to go away, I'm afraid you are barking up the wrong tree

see this page on wetwebmedia and see the question "ich help"

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/homeopathfaqs.htm

do further searches on WWM, RC, and numerous other sites, and you will see that person after person who has been in the hobby a long time and almost every person who has used this stuff that has a true understanding of how ich operates will say it does not work, that it can and often does kill inverts including corals, and that by delaying an effective treatment you are risking the death of your fish. this is not just me but almost every credible member of the reef community that says this stuff doesn't work, flat out, plain and simple.

if you pour it in and the ich goes away, it was probably just a freak occurance that the fish's own immunity kicked in around the same time and in that case the ich will come back. even if it worked 25% of the time (which if you read reviews much less than 25% of people who have used it have much good to say about it) then 75% of the time it does not work, and so you are taking a huge risk when 100% effective methods that are cheaper and in the case of a fish only tank almost as easy to do are available.

this is the last I will participate in this thread because I am frustrated, you have been warned and I feel I've done what I can, if your fish don't make it I will be sorry, but you can't say I didn't try to tell you.

OneThunder

02/25/2006, 08:23 PM

see this page on wetwebmedia and see the question "ich help"

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/homeopathfaqs.htm

now I almost resigned myself to the idea that Gary indeed dupe me into buying kick ich, and was reading this recommended link when I saw this...

The idea that a compound can kill a protozoan but not kill other bacterial and invertebrate life is craziness...

now in medicine, there is a test called a culture and sensitivity. It is done to determine exactly what organism is infecting. This is done because there are specific antibiotics for specific bacteria. And again, specific anti fungals, for specific fungii, etc, etc. And yes these compounds do kill certain species and not others. Example: a person takes an antibiotic for a sinus problem. It gives them diarreaha. This is because the antibiotic killed some of the resident micro organisms in there gastrointestinal tract (that are suppose to be there for digestion) and this in turned caused an "over growth" of bacteria that causes the diarreaha. I always recommend the patient to eat yogurt for the course of the antibiotic in order to replenish the "good" bacteria.

another example would be taking an antibiotic and developing Thrush, or a yeast infection. Same principle applies.
http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/full/43/1/73

of course they are not testing for "ich" this is an abstract for the treatment of human diseases. (and probably it follows for animals for consumption)
Indeed, I believed this was a forum for discussion, new ideas, debate. I have no opinion on Kick ich, I am searching for what another reader termed "what makes it tick". An internet search only turns up message boards, forums and the like. I have been searching for scientific studies.
Update: no new spots on Nemo, only able to see one spot on Doobie. No other fish seem to have any spots at this time. Nothing at all on the black keyhole angel fish. ;)

bigdaddyadam

02/25/2006, 09:27 PM

okay, I swore I was done but i must comment

first, you are probably not going to find any scientific info on kick-ich, very little real research is done on subjects or projects involving aquaria. the best you can hope for is the expertise of people like Julian Sprung, Anthony Calfo, Eric Borneman, Ron Shimek, Steven Pro, and other people who have been involved in aquaria for a long time. some of them do very indepth research into this stuff and their info is good, but nowhere near the level of research that has been done on marine biology in the wild, that is where most focus is.

all expert opinions I have read on these expirimental "reef safe" treatments especially kick-ich have said it does not work at the least and that it may actually do harm.

I am not trying to stiffle debate, the thing is that when something clearly does not work, the debate is over and it is foolish to proceed.

people make similar claims about all kinds of crazy stuff all the time ie. magnet bracelets make you stay healthy, etc. fact is they just don't, it's BS, and to pretend like there is a debate there is wrong, all you have is hopeful people being dupped.

I pursue this so adamently because of two things, first, I think the fact that kick-ich and it's ilk are still sold in fish stores despite the fact that they simply don't work, just so LFS can make a buck is reprehensible. and second I hate to see someone make the same mistake I did unneccissarily, lose a lot of expensive and loved pets, and in my case almost give up the hobby because of it.

I also think that trying a wing and a prayer solution like this when a perfectly 100% easy solution like hypo-salinty will work, will set you on a bad precident for the hobby. the first major thing a person learns about saltwater aquaria is that if something seems too easy it is. keeping a healthy tank is not hard but it takes dedication and a comitment not to cut certain corners. when you cut corners you WILL have a disaster in this hobby. I for one wish I could go back and QT all fish from the very beginning.

finally, I am pushing for you to do hypo-salinty because you have ABSOLUTELY no reason not to. you have a fish only tank, therefore you don't even have to take any fish out of the tank to do it, you just add freshwater to the tank in place of saltwater, slowly over some time, until the SG is at the right level and then keep it that way for a month, then slowly bring it back up, the fish will almost certainly be no worse for wear and you will definatively have cured ANY possibility of ich. it is a win win situation.

selgado

02/25/2006, 10:09 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6827861#post6827861 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OneThunder
Update: no new spots on Nemo, only able to see one spot on Doobie. No other fish seem to have any spots at this time. Nothing at all on the black keyhole angel fish. ;)

OneThunder I'm sorry, I'm only vaguely keeping up with this thread. You might have already been over it, but what do you think is helping your fish?

John

bigbenji

02/25/2006, 10:39 PM

you named a fish Doobie, hahahha
I'm investing in a UV sterilizer. I don't expect it to cure everything, but it sure will help.

Dubbin1

02/25/2006, 10:59 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6828842#post6828842 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigbenji
you named a fish Doobie, hahahha
I'm investing in a UV sterilizer. I don't expect it to cure everything, but it sure will help.

Ben hold off on buying that UV. I have one that may or may not be sold at the swap. Right now someone on fragswapper requested it but that can change at anytime (this is the second time I had it sold).

bigbenji

02/25/2006, 11:30 PM

Already paid. Thanks anyway though.

OneThunder

02/26/2006, 04:33 AM

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6828660#post6828660 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
[b]OneThunder You might have already been over it, but what do you think is helping your fish?

John [/QUOT
Chapter 1
Reading about Ich.
Chapter 2
Reading more about Ich
Chapter 3
Paranoia sets in-Discovering a white spot on Nemo
Chapter 4
3 hours at the computer reading about remedies for Ich
Chapter 5
Finding article by long time marine aquarist that told about his mistaken Ich identification versus some "bubbles" from a protein skimmer. (which incidently we recently installed)
Chapter 6
On going debate on Ich remedies and information on incompatible tank mates, overcrowding and water quality
Chapter 7
No new white spots

:D

weimers75

02/26/2006, 01:59 PM

Adam, I totally agree about hypo for a fish only tank. I had corals, and therefore couldn't try the hypo solution. Kick-Ich seemed to work for me so far, its been several months, but like you said-the immunities may hae kicked it. Hopefully, it won't come back:)

OneThunder

02/26/2006, 03:47 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6832413#post6832413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weimers75
Adam, I totally agree about hypo for a fish only tank. I had corals, and therefore couldn't try the hypo solution. Kick-Ich seemed to work for me so far, its been several months, but like you said-the immunities may hae kicked it. Hopefully, it won't come back:)

IF fish had the "immunity" would they have only one on their fins? and then disappear and show up on their tail? And if they are immune, would the Ich disappear from the tank because of not having a host? (that's what I'm thinking). Could you reinfest your tank with new live rock? (something other than a fish)? :eek2:

bigdaddyadam

02/26/2006, 06:02 PM

you can reinfest with just about anything, but it is much less likely than a fish doing it, some people qt everything some only fish.

when I had ich one day you would see it on one area, then another, the some days none, it goes in cycles and it is only a very short part of the cycle that it is visible on the fish, most is spent under the skin, in the water column, and in the sandbed. when mine were free swimming I could actually see them but they are VERY small, I used a magnifying glass to get a good look.

unfortunately immunity probably will keep them at bay except a small number of really hardy ones that will spring up again during stress. I always worry it will return to my tank some day, and in that case I will do hypo in a hospital tank, having not done so because last outbreak I didn't get the hypo info until it was already in remmission.

jenghes

02/26/2006, 07:09 PM

I have gotten Ich from a coral. Yes, anything wet can introduce Ich to your system. I will QT everything from now on.

Dubbin1

02/26/2006, 07:16 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6834626#post6834626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes
I have gotten Ich from a coral. Yes, anything wet can introduce Ich to your system. I will QT everything from now on.

Jen just out of curiosity how do you know it came from a coral? I know it "can" happen but narrowing it down to that is hard to do since ich can live in our tanks for a long time without showing any signs on the fish. My fowlr tank went for over a year with no new additions and no signs of ich until one day 4 fish came up with a bad case of it.

OneThunder

02/27/2006, 10:04 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6828389#post6828389 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam

finally, I am pushing for you to do hypo-salinty because you have ABSOLUTELY no reason not to. you have a fish only tank, therefore you don't even have to take any fish out of the tank to do it, you just add freshwater to the tank in place of saltwater, slowly over some time, until the SG is at the right level and then keep it that way for a month, then slowly bring it back up, the fish will almost certainly be no worse for wear and you will definatively have cured ANY possibility of ich. it is a win win situation.

Okay. I was so afraid to put the kick ich in with all the controversy, so I read steven pro's article over and over. Hubby says we will start the hyposalinity treatment. I have to pick up a refractometer tomorrow, well maybe Wednesday, I'm on call for the next couple of nights in addition to working during the day (ah the life of a hospice nurse). Do fish stores really take back fish? I'm hating to get rid of Doobie, I read where only the Blue cowfish from Hawaii gives off the toxin. Anyone read that? Sigh. BTW Spot and Beauty LOVE the sand eels. And they don't seem to make a mess like the krill.
:p

bigdaddyadam

02/27/2006, 10:35 PM

refractometer's are good, but depending on the price you could just pick up a salinty monitor, that's what I use, I find it easier to read and it was about $100, I got mine from marine depot

fish stores will take back fish, but you'll want to make sure they are ich free before you return them, they still won't give you full price, except maybe Gary's if you bought the fish there and it's still healthy. also if you got the kick-ich at Gary's and it isn't opened, I would call him and see if he will take it back. He is often good about refunds, one of the main reasons I like his place, he replaced 2 seperate defective coralife power centers and a defective heater for me, no problem.

good to see you are playing it safe and going with hypo, it really isn't very hard to do in a FO tank :)