The hidden costs of a large reef tank!

[Konadog]

OK, I finally was able to purchase a great Lee Mar 225 Starphire tank (see here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=759531)) and was able to work a deal with some friends on building and spraying the stand. I have also over the last few years been fortunate to get in on some great group buys for pumps and other main equipment, that's the good news.
Now for the hidden costs, plumbing! I don't think enough is mentioned on the small things you spend a small fortune on, like plumbing. After searching RC for weeks, and the net for months ;) it still is costing a small fortune in plumbing parts. Other costs include, wood (plywood top and stand bottom) cabinet fronts, electrical modifications including circuits, plugs, cords, and power strips. Don't get me started on the extras in the tank like salt and rock.

What other hidden costs are going to jump out at me that I don't know about?

[Kent E]

Plumbing is a killer!

One thing I have noticed is food goes at a much higher rate with a large tank because there are more fish, silly but it adds up.

[mwm6]

Not really a hidden cost, unless not considered, but operational costs are excessive with large tanks.

I'm planning my next 180 or 215 and I'm seriously considering a ******* Simplicity Plus type tank. My last 180 had a basement sump room, which meant larger pumps for returns, etc. i would love to talk myself into a tank with a built-in sump...I've ran all the initial and operational costs and byfar the built-in sump tank wins by a long shot. My biggest challenge right now is protein skimmer..one that will handle the load and work with this type of setup.

Good luck, and have fun......



Mack

[metamorphis]

Plumbing always kills me. A big tank can easily cost $1k or more to outfit. Everything maintenance related adds up as well.

-filter media
-salt
-ro/di carts and associated costs for making water
-magnetic algae scrapers

[Konadog]

That's the stuff I'm looking for.
Equipment is a big one if I had to do it all at once. I have spent almost two years acquiring things to spread the cost out.

[simple_joe]

I would have to say your electric bill since you are in California.

[Konadog]

Joe, with the different pumps I'm using "vs" all the powerheads I once used, I think my electric bill will be the same or less than with my 100 gallon tank. At least that's what I keep telling myself :rolleyes:

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6691558#post6691558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by metamorphis
-magnetic algae scrapers

If you have a higher end cleaning magnet like the ones listed below I believe they all are made with neodymium magnets (VERY STRONG)... If you don't have one I would really recommend one...

Magnavore
Algae Free
TUNZE

LINK to magnet details... (http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_maintenance_algae_magnet_cleaners.asp?CartId=)

I have a Magnavore and what I do instead of buying the replacement kit is go to Walmarts and buy the Jungle Labs Algae Remover Aquarium Cleaning Pad (3" X 5" X 1" thick pad) (http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=NJ700) for less then $2.00 and can get 2 uses out of one pad... I cut it down to fit my magnet then place it inside the tank between the magnet and the glass and with the Magnavore being so powerful it has no problem holding / cleaning, works just as good if not better then the replacement pads that cost $10.00+ not including S/H...

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6691558#post6691558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by metamorphis
-salt

I am not sure what salt mix you use or planning on using but I use IO... I have found that Petsmart.com (http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030148&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441776788&bmUID=1139076560671&itemNo=1&Ntt=salt&In=Fish&previousText=salt&N=2023693) internet price is $31.99 for a 160gal bucket of IO salt mix, when you go into a local store the shelf price is around $44.99... If you print off the internet page and take it into your local store I have never had a problem with them price matching... When I went to pick up 7 buckets of salt the last time I ended up paying $229.00 /w tax instead of $336.00 (savings of $107.00)...

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6691501#post6691501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kent E
One thing I have noticed is food goes at a much higher rate with a large tank because there are more fish, silly but it adds up.

I order my frozen food from drsfostersmith.com (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?N=2004+6120) as it is alot cheaper then buying it locally and they do not care how much you order at once... Since it is frozen you have the pay the $20.00 for overnite shipping so buying a greater amount at once will give you better savings...

[sullyfish]

I am reading this with interest since I am setting up a 180 and trying to figure costs.....

As far as buying sea salt goes, I found petco.com has an online special for 200 gal red sea salt mix for $53 + $8 for shipping, which is the best I have found so far....

[cwegescheide]

Yikes!!! I just paid 60 for a bucket of Tropic Marine!!!! ouch

[Konadog]

I believe if you have a Petco in your area, you can print out the online sale price and bring it in with you. They will honor the online price without shipping!

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I think everyone has coverd most of it.

One thing to add though will be your maintance time. Something that dosen't cost anything but can put a burden on your other life and the family at times. BIG tanks just take a little longer to celan. Also if you have a heavy bio load in the tank, it will take longer to clean the filters.

Your right about the plumbing, it gets expensive fast. take your time and plan it all out BEFORE you start glueing. ;)

Try to order your food in bulk, it's cheapier that way. Bulb replacement can get expensive as well, if you can stager their replacement some, it's easier on the pocket.

And as for the electric bill, be prepaired. Mine went up about 300 bucks when I got the 400 up and running with all the lights. I'm now trying a different light schedule to cut back on the consumption some. Just one 400W light on at a time. They slowly turn on/off acroos the tank with onlya 1/2 hour of two lights on at once. Kind of like the sun going across the sky. I also changed to more efficent sequence pumps. ;)

[Konadog]

I have found that making your own food is much more cost affective than buying it. I can make about $100 worth of food (LFS purchased) for less than $25. IMO, its much fresher and better for your fish.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

It probably is but for some reason, my big fish will only eat sinking pellets. I've tried everything too. dumb fish. :rolleyes:

[ChickenCannoneer]

Another thing that you may want to take into consideration is 2 part calcium additives. Just to get my calcium up it took 2 gallons of B-ionic calcium.

[jitter]

The water itself!

For those of us on a water meter (especially in the uk) RO/DI water usage will considerably bump up the bill, especially on the larger tanks.

[Ocicat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6691558#post6691558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by metamorphis
Plumbing always kills me. A big tank can easily cost $1k or more to outfit.

Are you saying that it can cost $1000 to plumb a large tank?? I'm planning a basement sump and haven't even factored plumbing into my cost estimates in any meaningful way...

I mean, it's just PVC and bulkheads and unions and valves, right??

:eek2:

[Konadog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6698786#post6698786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ocicat
I mean, it's just PVC and bulkheads and unions and valves, right??

:eek2: That's what I thought, then I started to look at what I wanted and need, and fell over backwards. It's $200 just in valves alone! Another $60 or so in bulkheads, $100 or so in flex and hard pipe, $75 in fittings, etc.......... :eek2:

Like I said in my first post, plumbing has got to be one of the worst things that no one talks about.

[tstone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6698786#post6698786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ocicat
Are you saying that it can cost $1000 to plumb a large tank?? I'm planning a basement sump and haven't even factored plumbing into my cost estimates in any meaningful way...

I mean, it's just PVC and bulkheads and unions and valves, right??

:eek2:

Depending on what type of reef you are trying to keep you will need flow. SPS need a lot of flow which means stuff like Tunze and Ocean motions.

For your 180 a pair of Tunze on a multi-controler will run almost $900.00.
That is over and above any basic plumbing.

Taint cheap doing a large tank

[-=DieselDave=-]

Buying the wife gifts to offset what I have spent setting up the tank.:)

[tstone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6700381#post6700381 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by -=DieselDave=-
Buying the wife gifts to offset what I have spent setting up the tank.:)

Mine booted me out cause the reef was/is my mistress. :D

Happy days are here again. :cool:

[Wryknow]

The water changes certainly do have the potential to add up very quickly. I just decided to buy a KENT DEION unit for my new tank instead of an RO/DI unit because the DI filters are rechargable on that model. Also there is no waste water, which may help out on the water bill.

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6694940#post6694940 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Konadog
I have found that making your own food is much more cost affective than buying it. I can make about $100 worth of food (LFS purchased) for less than $25. IMO, its much fresher and better for your fish.

Can you give details on how you make your food and what you place in it ??

[Konadog]

My fish food changes based on what I have, but for the base I use a sea food medley from Trader Joe's. It's like $6 or $8 for a package of the stuff and its full of shrimp, scallops, and squid. Asian markets have something like this also. I toss in a few sheets of Nori, a few scoops of golden pearls, a few chunks of cyclopeze, and some pellet food. Run it all thru the food processor and pour it into freezer zip loc bags and freeze flat.

[tstone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6701311#post6701311 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asnatlas
Can you give details on how you make your food and what you place in it ??

here is a good recipie (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=176530)

[Crusty Old Shellback]

For water, if you plan on using NSW that you collect, don't know for sure of a place in LB but I use some from UCSB, you've got to figure in gas and your time to go and get it/store it.

[Ocicat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6699039#post6699039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tstone
Depending on what type of reef you are trying to keep you will need flow. SPS need a lot of flow which means stuff like Tunze and Ocean motions.

For your 180 a pair of Tunze on a multi-controler will run almost $900.00.
That is over and above any basic plumbing.

Taint cheap doing a large tank

Well, I wasn't figuring powerheads as part of plumbing... Those are their own can of worms (Vortech??). :eek:

[reefarchitect]

I'm in the middle of an upgrade to a 180. When I started the planning, I figured, with all the extra stuff laying around I've fot basically everything covered. NOT! Three months and several hundred dollars later, there still isn't a drop of water in the tank.

It cost me ove $350.00 in oak alone to "dress up" my stand and build a hanging canopy.

Good luck with the setup.

[Bumzyman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6698786#post6698786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ocicat
Are you saying that it can cost $1000 to plumb a large tank?? I'm planning a basement sump and haven't even factored plumbing into my cost estimates in any meaningful way...

I mean, it's just PVC and bulkheads and unions and valves, right??

:eek2:


Without a doubt! My 535g has cost me well over a grand to plumb with fittings, spa-flex, etc. I have a basement sump that’s not directly under the tank to deal with though.

Here was my first order which came out to around $800 with shipping. I had to go back and order more pipe as well as a few more fittings when I started connecting things, even after that I still had to run to the local Home Depot for misc parts. No matter how well you try to plan you always seem to need at least one more piece.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=154020
Sorry for the link, I don't know how to embed an image directly into the post yet.

[Konadog]

Bumzyman, I'll post it for you:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/586/53089IMG_0898b.jpg

And my first order of fittings only.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/9086fittings.JPG

[JoeyK@OCMD]

Be ready for high electric and water bills. If your fish get sick, you have to purchase more medicine for greater quanites of water and so on. The bigger the tank the bigger the bills

[SunnyX]

WOW, $1000 is alot for plumbing.

It costed me less than $100 to plumb my 225gl.

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6893758#post6893758 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
WOW, $1000 is alot for plumbing.

It costed me less than $100 to plumb my 225gl.

On my 600gal I just have some basic plumbing needs and I am prob close to $600-$700+ easy... I don't have any CLs or anything special, just a 2" drain and 2x 1.5" drains and some return from the Seq Dart.

Here is a shot of what $300.00 will get you from Savko and that was just in one trip...

http://600gal.asnatlas.com/Resized/Misc%20Savko%20plumbing.JPG

[Konadog]

Shawn, the one white 3-way fitting on the right, what is that called? I need one in one inch.

PS, I spent almost $200 just in valves for my 225!

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6894838#post6894838 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Konadog
Shawn, the one white 3-way fitting on the right, what is that called? I need one in one inch.

PS, I spent almost $200 just in valves for my 225!

That is a 3-way wye, They come in two different "designs"... The other design is like a coupler with a 45deg off the side... I can get some pics tonite when I get home if you need...

[Konadog]

No pictures needed. I have a few of the other types in 2" (see my post above for picture), but need one like that in 1". I just didn't have a name for them.

[BigBert96]

I only have a 120 gallon, but there were several hidden costs i didn't take into account. I must have made a hundred trips to Lowes for small things that most people dont think about. Here are some.

Pliers- $10
PVC cutters- $30
PVC Glue+Primer- $12
Clamps for flex tube fittings- $5
Drill (If you dont already own one)- $100 for a decent one!
Wood screws- $5
Wood Glue- $5
Acrylic Primer- $10
Assorted Specialy drill bits- $30
Filter Pads for sumps- $13 for one (Per month)
Window cleaner (Aquarium safe)- $10
Power strips X3- $20=$60
GFCI Outlet- $17
GFCI power strip- $25
Supplements of various types- Purple up $15, others=$45
Hammer to open IO salt- $12
Screwdriver to remove and adjust clamps- $5
Extension cords- $12 each X 3= $36
Python hose/vacuum system for cleaning sand bed- $80
Wood cleaner for stand/canopy- $8
SuperGlue gel for frags- $3
Water changes for 120gallon setup- ? Not sure, but a lot!
Xtra pump to circulate new water for water changes- $25-$100 depending on what pump obviously!
Xtra Heater for new water for water changes-$15
Wooden spoon to stir new water- $1 (Hey it all adds up right?)
Paper towels to clean external glass of tank- $5 (Per month Estim)
Rubber bands for frags- $1
Plastic bags for frags and fishies- $3
Buckets or rubbermaid for waterchanges- $6-$25
Aquarium silicone- $6
Prime water treater- $9
Extra orings and bulkheads (u never know)- $30
Cigarettes while completing water change- $3.50 X 2 packs=$7!!
And the biggest hidden bill of them all Gas!- 100 trips to lowes in V8 F150=$99999999!
Some may already have most of these but I didn't when I started. As you can see, there are a lot of small things people dont take into consideration when starting this hobby. Feel free to add to this list.

[cwegescheide]

Here is a shot of what $300.00 will get you from Savko and that was just in one trip...

I'm sorry but to me it sure doesn't look like 300 bux to me. 90% of what I see there I could get at lowes for around 100 bux

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6895686#post6895686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cwegescheide
I'm sorry but to me it sure doesn't look like 300 bux to me. 90% of what I see there I could get at lowes for around 100 bux

Does not matter to me if you believe it or not, I have nothing to gain from saying I spent $300.00 on things pictured... Incase you didn't know most of those pieces are sched 80, not cheaper gray sched 40... Most of the stuff I have compared with Savko and Lowes/HD, Savko has been at least 40% cheaper... Those two biggest 2" True Union Ball Valves are like 37.00 ea, then that 1.5" TUBV is 25.00 so that is $100.00 just in 3 pieces... Those 1.5" sched 80 - 45deg are like $9.00 ea and there are 4 and then there are some 2" sched 80 BH, 25.00 ea x2... When you get into 2"+ on pipes/fittings the prices are about half as much and when you get into sched 80 its about half as much again... But I figured if I could even find 1/2 of that stuff at Lowes/HD just in sched 40 I would be paying what I paid for it from Savko in sched 80...

[Psyire]

I thought I was in the clear after my tank was running and all my equipment was setup. Things were good!

AND THEN...

I went to buy my 1st coral...

Yikes. lol

[BMitch]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6894869#post6894869 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asnatlas
That is a 3-way wye, They come in two different "designs"... The other design is like a coupler with a 45deg off the side... I can get some pics tonite when I get home if you need...

I've been looking for 3 way (120 degree) wyes on Savko's website, but haven't been able to find any.

Do they only have them in their store and not online?

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6897495#post6897495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BMitch
I've been looking for 3 way (120 degree) wyes on Savko's website, but haven't been able to find any.

Do they only have them in their store and not online?

They don't have alot of stuff on their site that they have in store... They have pieces I have never seen before... I love being local because I can go in there and tell them what I need, maybe show a drawing and what I think would need like 6 pieces to do, they can get it done in like 2 or 3... I would give them a call to tell them what you are looking to do, or if you know what you want ask them specifically...

[jnfallon]

I thought I was in the clear after my tank was running and all my equipment was setup. Things were good!


Yep, 5k later and I now have a box of moving water, base rock, two damsels and a false perc, lol.

I can't afford any livestock.

Oh, and I havent gotten the first elec bill since turning on the MH, the under/over is $1000/mo on elec. I was at 800 before adding 4 x 400 mh.

[tstone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6898240#post6898240 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnfallon
Oh, and I havent gotten the first elec bill since turning on the MH, the under/over is $1000/mo on elec. I was at 800 before adding 4 x 400 mh.

I say over. :)

[smtarr]

There's a recipe for 'Fenners Mash' in the book Marine Reef Inhabitants by Dr. Fenner. I modify it by adding brocolli for my tangs. I freeze it in the cube containers we all purchase our frozen fish food in and when frozen I place it in zipper freezer bags and take out just how many cubes I need. Easy and fast and I make enough for several months at a time. Sue

[dgasmd]

There are a lot of hidden or better said unforseen costs i a larger tank. Over time, you learn how to save some money here and there, but not before wasting a lot of it. I tend to order stuff in bulk every few months. I get some discounts at some online places and also save on the shipping too. One thing to consider is the long term effects of enormous electric and water bills. It took me a year on my current tank to break down and change the efficient 4x5800 gph sequence pumps for 8 tunze 6200. I am also running my MH for about 5 hr/day and the vho actinic for 10 hr/day. I get my salt from Petsmart with the online print out, my waste water goes into filling up my pool, etc. When I re-do some things, I will cover up my sump to minimize the amount of evaporation I have, which currently is 10-12 gpd. This may not sound like much, but why throw away $1000/month on electricity and water when you could be getting some very nice livestock with that same money.

[jnfallon]

but why throw away $1000/month on electricity and water when you could be getting some very nice livestock with that same money.

I hear that. I am curious to see if I save some money moving from 6 tanks to 2. Hope so, every month I get so ****ed. I actually DID look to see if my neighbor was plugger in, I just dont know where it all goes.

Also, EIGHT 6200's? Thats awesome.

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6903751#post6903751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgasmd
Over time, you learn how to save some money here and there, but not before wasting a lot of it. I tend to order stuff in bulk every few months. I get some discounts at some online places and also save on the shipping too.

Got to spend money to save money :D

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6894354#post6894354 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asnatlas
On my 600gal I just have some basic plumbing needs and I am prob close to $600-$700+ easy... I don't have any CLs or anything special, just a 2" drain and 2x 1.5" drains and some return from the Seq Dart.

Here is a shot of what $300.00 will get you from Savko and that was just in one trip...

http://600gal.asnatlas.com/Resized/Misc%20Savko%20plumbing.JPG

Never Heard of Savko, I just went to Home Depot and got what i needed. I should mention that my plumbing system is pretty simple.

[Roughhawk]

Hi
my total plumbing was about 650$..
Nice to have...some additional watermovement (another 1000)
Cool new Skimmer because the old one does NOT match (another 1500)..resale the old one = 300 bucks ;(
about 6lbs of frozen food a MONTH (ludicrous but TRUE) because the "few" more fishes in the tank
don't even think about electricity, salt, changing flu. tubes etcetcetc.

[monkeyreefer]

you can save a lot more money by going schd 40 instead of 80, 80 is not need in our set ups.

[hawaiianwargod]

I agree with monkeyreefer...sched 80 is not needed but nice to have because it looks better IMO. But then saving more on PVC stuff means more $$$ on corals and other livestocks.