Starting a 225 gallon reef tank

[MdM31]

Before I start the official thread, I have a few quick questions for you guys. I am at the point to where I need to know what size holes I should go with in my overflow. The tank is going to be 225 gallons with 2 external overflow boxes. I was thinking 2 holes in each box, at 1.5". Would that be too large? Could I make the durso's 1.5" then size them down to 1". What would you guys do? I want the tank to be micro bubble free and as quiet as possible. I wont be having a high turnover rate either so thats not a big issue.

-Mike

[HotHotHot]

As a reference, I'm setting up a 225 right now (ready for rock).

I had 2 1.5" holes drilled in each overflow. 1 Durso and 1 emergency drain per overflow.

I'm using a Sequence 3200, which is gawd awful powerful, as a return pump and the drains can easily handle the flow (my sump can't however).

What return pump you will use?

HTH
Ed

[downlimit]

I would suggest that instead of using 2 large drains and having a massive pump to return the water to the tank from the sump, I would be a proponent of using a centralized overflow, with a small pump returning only about 2 to 5 times the tanks water volume per hour, and then having the rest of the flow created by closed loop systems. this not only addresses the fact that you wont see any micro bubles back in the aquarium, but also there is no loss of flow as the cls will take care of that.

[HotHotHot]

I'm inclined to agree with downlimit. I sized the pump based on the headloss calculator, but dang there's no stopping this pump!

I did throttle it back by dumping water back into the sump with a tee off of the return line.

I'm also using a closed loop with a Dart and OM 4-way which is bubble-free.

Ed

[MdM31]

Im going to use my panworld 100px pump. Its a flow pump rated at about 1000gph, but it wont be open full be/c I will be using it to feed my UV, calcium reactor, and other components. Im guessing I will get about 600gph back into the actual tank.

Im starting to think 1 1/4" drains would be fine. Ive heard of people haveing problems with large drains; problems like microbubbles and noise. Is this true?

Im not going to have a high sump turnover, so what would you guys suggest?

-Mike

[CAreefer]

With my 225, the return pump is the Pan World 100 px also. I do have it throttled back about 25%. I run a single 1 1/2" drain into the sump. No noise coming from the overflow or the drain into the sump. I had to get a little creative with the overflow plumbing. Vertically into the sump, 90deg elbow, up to 2", Tee (up and down) 2" elbow on top. Dead silent. Flow in the tank is handled by the tunzes.

HTH
CAReefer

[CAreefer]

Mike, I am looking at making some changes to my tank. How has Miracles been to work with? Are they on time with stated deadlines?

Thanks
CAReefer

[asnatlas]

I would stick with your 2x 1.5" drains in each overflow... Its better to have too big of drains then not big enough... The drains will only drain as fast as the water is returned back to the display...

As for the return flow I would stick to about 3x-5x of your display volume...

[CAreefer]

Great advice Shawn.

[MdM31]

Thanks!

[MdM31]

Well now I have come to the lighting dilema. I was thinking of having 5 250 watt metal halides on icecap ballasts. I was going to run 3 10ks and 2 20ks (XM bulbs). Do you guys think I would need actinic supplementation? Another issue i ran into was the halides might heat up the tank a little too much and I do not want to buy an expensive chiller. What would you guys do? Im open to all suggestions.

-Mike

[Drewcipher]

I am doing the exact same thing. I have 2 drains and 1 return in each external overflow. The drains are 2" and 1.5". The return is 1.5" I just received my Gen-X Mak 4 return pump(1190gph) and expect my closed loop pump tomorrow(Sequence Barracuda). I will also have Tunze 6000s on a multi controller. Mine will be an LPS tank so this might sound like alot of flow, but the return pump and the closed loop pump will all be blasting away at the back of the tank. We decided that the flow in back is one of the most ignored areas of a tank. The rest of the tank will be tossed about by the Tunzes. I hope it works out well for us. Maybe it helps you some too.

I am still in the lighting dilemna as well, and I know what I am going to keep. What do you want to keep in the tank? I think you are too heavy on lighting, unless you are planning on SPS only. If you want a mixed reef, I think you might be disappointed with that much light. Also, as far as supplementing goes, it is far too subjective to answer. People differ in the color they like to see in their tanks. On the other side of the coin, I like supplementation so that I can have those lights on first, rather than go wham into daylight. Anyway, sorry if I rambled.

[CAreefer]

As to the lighting, I ran 5 250 watt DE's in the ROIII reflectors and couldn't get the necessary spread. I ended up with the LAIII's and 400 watt bulbs. I went mainly with the 400's because I wanted to keep the bulbs 16" off the surface to help with the heat issues. I have had them as low as 8" and still got complete coverage. IMO 3 250 watt SE in the LAIII's would be a good set-up. The supplementation is a little more difficult because with the eurobracing. With 4" front and rear bracing, a 22" opening is left. The LAIII's are 19.5" My VHO's are under the reflectors and there is a slight shadow. Might want to look into the LAIII mini's.

CAReefer

[MdM31]

Alright I will do that. Only 3 running 3 halides will save me a bunch of money too!

-Mike

[CAreefer]

You can see all the hooks in the ceiling from my previous experiments trying to get the desired coverage. I intended from the beginning for this to be an SPS dominant tank, so I knew I needed lots of light. IMO it would take at least 6 of the ROIII reflectors to get full coverage front to back.

Here is with the 5 250 watt, actually 2 were SE and 3 were DE
http://www.careefer.homestead.com/Lights.jpg

And what I ended up with.
http://www.careefer.homestead.com/Lighting-8_14_05.jpg

What bulbs you're on running will determine the best ballast for your situation. I bought all PFO HQI's so I could run the Radium. The 10k Reeflux gives the corals great color, I believe due to the very high spike in the 450 nm range. but on the HQI ballast, it has a pink tint to it that I find unattractive. I'm going to give the CV e-ballast a try and see how I like it. The par difference is minimal and the blue spike remains.

CAReefer

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6804828#post6804828 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MdM31
Well now I have come to the lighting dilema. I was thinking of having 5 250 watt metal halides on icecap ballasts. I was going to run 3 10ks and 2 20ks (XM bulbs). Do you guys think I would need actinic supplementation? Another issue i ran into was the halides might heat up the tank a little too much and I do not want to buy an expensive chiller. What would you guys do? Im open to all suggestions.

-Mike

5x MHs, what size is your tank ?? I am only running 4x 250w over my 600gal (96x48x30)... I am using Lumenarc III reflectors (http://www.pacificgardensupply.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L3&cat=2)... They can give a good 3'x3' coverage and I would really look into them, depending on what corals you are planning on keeping you could prob get away with 2 or 3... I would look into T5 for supplementation...

[CAreefer]

One other thought, IIRC the XM's don't fire reliably on the IceCap ballasts. At least the DE versions. I maybe really off on this, but seems to me....

[MdM31]

I think im gonna run 3 luminarc III reflectors with 250 watt XM bulbs(10ks on the outside one 20k in the center). I think im gonna try to run them of PFO HQI ballasts. Will I have to buy the PFO mogul socket? Im guessing I will, also do the Luminarc Reflectors come with some type of mounting bracket??? I am also gonna run two 72" super actinic for supplementation.

Thats it for now.

-Mike

[CAreefer]

The LAIII's come with the socket, accompanying bracket, mounting hooks (for hanging), and a cord with a proprietary plug (IIRC you get both male and female too). The cords are really long, like 12 ft. Makes remote placement nice. You will need the PFO lamp cord as it is sold seperately and plugs directly into the ballast.

Marshal

[radone]

CAreefer, the new ice cap 250 ballasts will fire the XM's no problem.
Just thought you would like to know, just don't want start something.
You have a beautiful tank BTW

[RickD1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6805189#post6805189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CAreefer
You can see all the hooks in the ceiling from my previous experiments trying to get the desired coverage. I intended from the beginning for this to be an SPS dominant tank, so I knew I needed lots of light. IMO it would take at least 6 of the ROIII reflectors to get full coverage front to back.

Here is with the 5 250 watt, actually 2 were SE and 3 were DE
http://www.careefer.homestead.com/Lights.jpg

And what I ended up with.
http://www.careefer.homestead.com/Lighting-8_14_05.jpg

What bulbs you're on running will determine the best ballast for your situation. I bought all PFO HQI's so I could run the Radium. The 10k Reeflux gives the corals great color, I believe due to the very high spike in the 450 nm range. but on the HQI ballast, it has a pink tint to it that I find unattractive. I'm going to give the CV e-ballast a try and see how I like it. The par difference is minimal and the blue spike remains.

CAReefer


Nice set up

[MdM31]

The LAIII's come with the socket, accompanying bracket, mounting hooks (for hanging), and a cord with a proprietary plug (IIRC you get both male and female too). The cords are really long, like 12 ft. Makes remote placement nice. You will need the PFO lamp cord as it is sold seperately and plugs directly into the ballast.

So I will need tto buy three of these?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/MdM31/IMD_150_PF2613.jpg

And those then hook up to the LA3 cords correct? Thanks for the help guys.

-Mike

[CAreefer]

No, you don't need to buy anything else. If you get the PFO Ballast, you will need to order just the cord that plugs into their ballast.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=PF2813

The mogul sockets come with the reflectors.

Marshal

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

very nice...

[MdM31]

Ok thanks. The tank and stand/canopy is going to be ordered some time this week, and all the other junk I will probably order tonight. I will keep yall updated.

-Mike

[alien9168]

Tagging...

[MdM31]

Heres a list of some stuff Im going to be ordering from marine depot tonight.

2- 250watt 10k XM MH bulbs
1- 250 watt 20k XM MH bulb
3- 250 watt Won Brothers Digital LCD heaters
3- TLF Phosban reactors (2 for phosban, one for carbon)
3- maxijet 400
1- Panworld 200ps skimer to drive my MyReefCreations MR-2R Beckett Skimmer
A PFO 2 bulb VHO retro fit kit with two 72" super actinic VHO bulbs
2- Dual 250 watt PFO HQI ballasts (I will probably run the other halide on a pro tank or something)
3- Pfo Quick disonnect cables

I will be ordering 3 Luminarc III reflectors aswell from Pacific Garden supply, I think Im going to get the glass sheets aswell to protect the bulbs

Then I am going to order a GEO Kalk reactor, and a Geo 618 calcium reactor. I already have a co2 bottle, and im thinkning about getting a new JBJ regulator. Anyone have experience with those regs??

I am also highly considering ordering a wavebox to run along with my 2 6100 tunzes streams on a multi.

I also gotta get a new RO/DI unit; I am probably gonna get the typhoon III from airwatice.

So how does all that sound to you guys??? I will keep yall updated.

-Mike

[MdM31]

Keep in ming im going to be using alot of equipment I already have from my current tank, so I really only need to upgrade the lights, reactors, skimmer pump, and possibly get a tunze wavebox.

-Mike

[CAreefer]

I wouldn't spend the money for the glass on the LAIII's. Your going to take a ~20% hit in par. IMHO the 250's are going to limit SPS placement to the top half anyway, and with the glass, you'll be stuck with the top few inches of rockwork. I know your going with mainly LPS and softies, but after you acquire a few nice SPS, you'll be addicted like the rest of us. Again, JMHO

Marshal

[MdM31]

Im gonna have alot of sps. will I be able to keep all my sps in the top of the tank, or do you thnik i should go with 400watt halides?? Ill take the glass of my list. I am already hooked on SPS, but wanna get some softies and LPS too. 250's should be good huh?

-Mike

[CAreefer]

Without the glass, 250's will be fine. It will give you lower light areas (bottom half) of tank for zoos and such. Also some of the lower light demanding SPS. I switched over from 250's to 400's to get the coverage. If I had bought the LAIII's before buying new ballasts and bulbs, I probably would have never went to 400's.

With the 10k/20k/10k, there will be a visible difference in coloration in the tank.

I don't remember, are you going BB? With that much flow, you will have a lot of sand stirred up all the time. I personally don't care for the BB look. If it were me, I'd use just a thin layer of a larger (>2mm) sand.

[MdM31]

No i am not going Bare bottom. Im going to run a SSB. I really like the look of your sand, what kind is that if you don't mind me asking?? I think im gonna stick with the 250s.

-Mike

[MdM31]

Do you think I should just do all 10k with the actinics? Ive ran xms with VHO actinics before and it looked really good, but was wondering what it would look like with a 20k in the middle. Im open to all suggestions..

-Mike

[MdM31]

The Wave box and JBJ co2 regulator has been ordered. Now all I gotta order are the lights, reactors, and the other stuff from marinedepot. Heres a pic of what my stand is going to look like. The stand will be 40" tall, and the canopy 20" tall so I can fit 3 luminarc III reflectors in there. I think it will look very proportional. I like tall canopies, and the higher stand will aloow us to view the tank at eye level.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/MdM31/225%20gallon%20reef%20tank/135sidecolumns.jpg

Heres what my tank is kinda gonna look like (this is a 280 gallon with 2 external overflow boxes)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/MdM31/225%20gallon%20reef%20tank/wexternalwacryliccladding.jpg

-Mike

[CAreefer]

Lighting is so subjective. I hesitate to give bulb K recommendations. I personally don't care for the XM/VHO combination. Too yellow for my taste. I lean a little more towards the blue look. I'm looking for a nice crisp white with a hint of blue. So far I haven't found a combination that works for me. The Hamiltons in 400 watt on the HQI ballast was a good color. But the growth totally sucks IMO.

I'm going to be removing the sand I have and replacing with something larger. It is continually being kicked up and floats around the tank like micro bubbles. IIRC it is the Aragamax, sugar or oolitic, I have a bag in the garage, I will check in a bit to see which. I think the sugar tho.

That stand is gorgeous. My tank is 42" off the ground. A really nice height. Being in earthquake country, I had to take a few extra steps to make sure it stays in place during the next one. The San Simeon quake as 6. something, the tank was on the stand but empty at the time. Didn't budge. My free standing 75 moved 4" away from the wall and 6" to the east. Splashed out about 5 gallons of water.

Marshal

[MdM31]

I was thinking sugar sand would get blown all over the place, what about this sand?

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CS0022

or this-

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CS0050

I like the first one the best.

-Mike

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6830987#post6830987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by alien9168
Tagging...

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/91862Subscribe_to_this_Thread.jpg

[CAreefer]

Mike, I like either one of the sand choices above. The grain size should be fine. At 1-2 mm, It will move around abit, but not get up into the water column.

Marshal

[MdM31]

I just ordered my geo 618 calcium reactor and nielsen reactor. Should be here in about week. I plan to order the other junk by tonight, and the tank and stand/canopy should be ordered tonight/tomorrow morning. I think im gonna go with a mix of the two sands above. Still not sure yet, gonna have to see them iun person to see if i like them.

-Mike

[MdM31]

The wavebox has arrived and the reactors should be here somtime tonight. I will post pics when I get back home.

-Mike

[MdM31]

The GEO reactors are here and look great, but I can't take any pics. Im gonna leave them in the boxes so I can store them for now, and when it comes time to move I won't have to box them back up. Packing peanuts are a B***h!

I also placed the marinedepot order (I ended up getting a few salifert test kits too, and an ehiem pump for my return pump), now all I gotta order are the luminarc III reflectors, the tank, and the stand/canopy combo from Sean.

Will keep yall updated.

-Mike

[MdM31]

Im considering purchasing a controller for my aquarium.

I have been looking at the aquacontroller 3 with a DCA 8, and the new Reefkeeper 2. If anyone has any input on these controllers, that would be great if you shared your experiences with me.

Im kind leaning towards the AC3 because it has an ethernet port, can monitor ORP and pH, and looks a little more flexible than the reefkeeper 2. Of course it is more expensive, I just want to make sure if its evern worth the money.

-Mike

[asnatlas]

Aquatronica (http://www.aquatronica.com/eng/home.htm)

[MdM31]

I was looking at those earlier. They look really nice, but might be a little too pricey. I will keep it in mind though. All I need is a pH monitor because I already have a controller for my calcium reacto, and I already have an ORP controller.

Does the aquatronica have a built in webserver?

-Mike

[SunnyX]

MdM31, What are the dimensions of the tank?

I also have a 225gl Starphire Euro-braced tank from Miracles.

I run Lumenarcs and have two 1.5" drains. I am using a Sequence DART as my return.

For san I am using Caribsea Seaflor Super reef sand.

[MdM31]

I havent ordered the tank, but the dimensions I am looking at are 72" long, 30" deep, and 24" high. How do you like your 60" tank?? That 36 width must be sweet, but the tank is going in the family room and I dont think I could do 36" deep.

I think im gonna go with either fiji pink, or the seafloor super reef sand. How many pounds did you use?? I want a SSB, i think you have a SSB correct?

How do you like the luminarcs?

BTW I love your tank, your tank is one of the reasons im going back to sand. Thanks for the inspiration!

-Mike

[jony5]

verry nice stand

[Drewcipher]

I love this thread since I am making all the same decisions for the exact same size tank.
Ours will be an LPS tank so I am also considering getting 10 60 inch T5 bulbs at 80 watts each and staggering them to get coverage to all points. I really love T5 lighting, but am thinking I won't get quite enough light over the whole tank.

[MdM31]

You should run some luminarcs with 175'S! That woulbe give you tons of light.

[Drewcipher]

I was thinking that. If I go MH I was looking at 3 175s plus either 2 VHO bulbs or 2-4 T5 bulbs for supplement.

[MdM31]

you may even be able to get by with two 175s in two luminarcs since its going to be an LPS only tank. Im pretty sure the Luminarcs give you a 3x3 spread. Cant wait to see your tank up and running too! Its cool to see alot of 225s out there!

-Mike

[Drewcipher]

One of these days I will get some pictures up there and start a "new tank" thread. I want to have the sump first though so I am at least close to filling it with water.

[MdM31]

Its beginning to look alot like christmas! My marinedepot order came into today, 5 boxes full!!! They even gave me two free MAG 5 pumps for some reason. Thanks MD!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/MdM31/225%20gallon%20reef%20tank/DSC_0389.jpg

All I gotta get now is the reflectors, and a new RO.

-Mike

[Drewcipher]

I am told my skimmer will be clearing customs on the 15th, so I should get it soon. I got my RO/DI unit mounted and plumbed, so water is now registering 0 TDS. Woohoo!

[MdM31]

Heres my skimmer I am going to be using. A myreefcreations mr-2r. Im gonna run it on a panworld 200ps on the new tank.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/MdM31/New%20pictures%20of%20my%20Barebottom%20SPS%20Reef%20Tank/Stuff041.jpg

-Mike

What kind of skimmer are you getting???

[Drewcipher]

I went with an H&S skimmer. It is in-sump as I am paranoid about leaks and this way it goes into the sump. It will be powered by 2 Eheim 1260s.

[MdM31]

Sweet. Gotta love german made skimmers!!

-Mike

[Drewcipher]

I can't wait to get it. My equipement seems to be arriving at a trickle, but it is my fault for ordering it that way.

[alien9168]

cool they gave you extra mags! :D

-alien

[MdM31]

Yeah i dont know what to do with em! lol. Ill probably use them to mix salt or something.

-Mike

[tigershark4]

I just ordered my mrc mr2 and mrd cr1. I can't wait to get them. I just did the same from Championlighting. Each day another box shows up.

[tigershark4]

I see that you ordered a geo reactor and you have a mrc protein skimmer. any reason why you went with the geo instead of the mrc calcium reactor

[golfschosen1]

Nice Tank CAReefer

[golfschosen1]

Nice Tank CAReefer

[MdM31]

I like the MRC skimmer, but I have heard really good things about GEO reactors so I thought I would give it a shot. I was really thinking about ordering all MRC stuff, but the GEO reactors look sturdy and have alot more bells and whistles. And from what I have heard the MRC nielsen reactor is garbage.

I will still continue to get my skimmers from him. mayeb one day I will try one of Andy's reactors.

-Mike

[MdM31]

The tank and stand/canopy has been ordered. I will keep yall updated on its status, and will provide construction pictures.

I was thinkning of using some baserock from reeferrocks, but was worried about it being full of phopsphtes. Has anyone ever used this baserock, and not had it turn green and leach tons of phopsphate into the aquarium?

All feedback, questions, comments, concerns are greatly appreciated.

-Mike

[Drewcipher]

Doesn't it seem as though every time you make an agonizing decision on what to do with your tank you are so close to done, and then wham! another decision to make?

For rock, I have decided to take my time and wander all the LFS and pick pieces I want. It will take longer and maybe cost a few dollars more, but I want to build a specific aquascape and will find the rocks to do it with rather than let someone else do it.

I do not know reefrocks.

[MdM31]

I am really worrried about base rock, and will probably steer clear from it. I have seen it turn green and really make tanks look like crap.

A local reefer used some from hirocks, and he had phosphate off the charts, green algea everywhere, and the tank looked like a nuclear reactor.

I think im gona spend the extra dollars and order some boxes of fiji premium from waltsmith.

-Mike

[Drewcipher]

I don't think you will be disappointed. I, too, decided against base rock.

[MdM31]

I got a pretty good amount if some live rock, and some driec out live rock in my garage. Im gonna use that, and get some more rocks from waltsmith.

-Mike

[MdM31]

construction of the stand has begun!

top front view
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/MdM31/225%20gallon%20reef%20tank/topfront.jpg

Front view
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/MdM31/225%20gallon%20reef%20tank/front.jpg

Back view
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/MdM31/225%20gallon%20reef%20tank/back.jpg

I will Have some pics of the trim work saturday night.

I also received notice that my tank order has been put in at miracles. So I should be getting some construction pics in the next few days.

-Mike

[tigershark4]

I was looking at your stand and I was wondering how did you secure the legs on the end to the base and top?

[jsweir]

You made a good choice buying the wavebox. I finally broke down and bought one. I get a 1 1/2" wave on my 72" tank. Really makes a difference. You can see the polyps sway back and forth.

[Opcn]

I'm not a professional Carpenter, but I have done quite a bit of it, and I think you should put some crossbraces on that stand, the force of racking it only slightly with say 2000 lbs of water on top would tear that right down destroying the tank and stand and probably any equipment attached.