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View Full Version : is silicone for bath and kitchen ok?


cokevanilla
02/21/2006, 10:36 PM
i used kitchen-bath silicone to modify my AC300 into a mini refugium; it's already on the back of my aquarium, running water; is it bad?

:rolleyes:

BurntOutReefer
02/21/2006, 10:40 PM
has it cured?

artful-dodger
02/21/2006, 10:42 PM
I've read that the kitchen/bath silicone adhesives include an anti-mold agent. Not sure that it's true, though. You might be able to find more info at Dow's (or whatever manufacturer's) website.

The other potential issue is with the strength of the bond, but for your application that shouldn't be a big deal.

I know that I used it to reseal FW tanks years ago without any problems.

cokevanilla
02/21/2006, 10:43 PM
i left it for 2 hrs.; on the back ... was saying something about 24 hrs (to get cured)

RockStarFish
02/21/2006, 10:44 PM
I'm not an exsert but I don't think so. I'm not shure exactly why but I was told not to use it.You can use the windows and doors stuff though I think.

cokevanilla
02/21/2006, 10:47 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6798025#post6798025 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RockStarFish
I'm not an exsert but I don't think so. I'm not shure exactly why but I was told not to use it.You can use the windows and doors stuff though I think.


the thing is that the filter is already running ...:eek:

Qwiv
02/21/2006, 11:02 PM
Kitchen and Bathroom caulking has Arsenic in it.. basically.. Poison!!!! Any book on reefkeeping will point that out. Not good to have in a tank.

tag
02/21/2006, 11:07 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6798154#post6798154 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Qwiv
Kitchen and Bathroom caulking has Arsenic in it.. basically.. Poison!!!! Any book on reefkeeping will point that out. Not good to have in a tank.

caulking is not silicone. if it is 100% silicone, it is safe. just let it cure as mentioned earlier.

Qwiv
02/22/2006, 12:20 AM
SORRY!!!
Kitchen and Bathroom SILICONE has Arsenic in it.. basically.. Poison!!!! Any book on reefkeeping will point that out. Not good to have in a tank.

It is used for anti-mildew.
Read the tube, it will say something about anti-mildew on it. O, for the record, the anti-mildew agent could be something other than Arsenic, but it would still be bad. Arsenic is just a common ingredient.

BurntOutReefer
02/22/2006, 12:21 AM
silicone is petroleum based......if its already in the tank...then there you have it. anything dead yet?

sequential
02/22/2006, 12:33 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6798608#post6798608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BurntOutReefer
silicone is petroleum based......if its already in the tank...then there you have it. anything dead yet?

I don't mean to single you out, but the tone of this thread is taking a bad turn. cokevanilla made an error we've all made on RC. He asked a question, that probably seems obvious to numerous people on the board, after he did something that he now thinks might be bad.

No need to pile on. Is there any reason to believe cokevanilla isn't being sincere? Don't forget, some hobbyists are young and or second language English speakers.

cokevanilla, I don't know what an AC300 is, but is there any way you can operate your tank without it until the AC300 is cured and the tank has been observed for possible problems from exposure to the silicone? Others will certainly have better advice than I am qualified to give.

tag
02/22/2006, 12:54 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6798607#post6798607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Qwiv
SORRY!!!
Kitchen and Bathroom SILICONE has Arsenic in it.. basically.. Poison!!!! Any book on reefkeeping will point that out. Not good to have in a tank.

It is used for anti-mildew.
Read the tube, it will say something about anti-mildew on it. O, for the record, the anti-mildew agent could be something other than Arsenic, but it would still be bad. Arsenic is just a common ingredient.

straight from my GE Silicone II, 100% silicone kitchen & bath sealant:

ingrediants: methoxyporydimethlsiloxane, dimethylpolysiolxane, treated fume silica, NJTRSN, Hexamethyldisilazane, Methyltrimethoxysilane, VOX

no sign of arsenic unless one of those is the scientific name for arsenic. more importantly, i used this tube to glue/seal my HOB refugium. Running for two months with no casualties. I highly doubt arsenic is a compound in anything these days.

pvtschultz
02/22/2006, 06:24 AM
I think that you'll be fine. Typically we have been straaying away from the kitchen and bath silicones due to the any mold and mildew possibility. It is best to let it cure (outgas) for that 24 hours but we all know how hard it is to be that patient. I am guilty as charged myselt but all of my fish lived. I did use a lot of carbon after applying silicone to absorb any leached chemicals. Good luck to you.

cokevanilla
02/22/2006, 07:25 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6798658#post6798658 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sequential
I don't mean to single you out, but the tone of this thread is taking a bad turn. cokevanilla made an error we've all made on RC. He asked a question, that probably seems obvious to numerous people on the board, after he did something that he now thinks might be bad.

No need to pile on. Is there any reason to believe cokevanilla isn't being sincere? Don't forget, some hobbyists are young and or second language English speakers.

cokevanilla, I don't know what an AC300 is, but is there any way you can operate your tank without it until the AC300 is cured and the tank has been observed for possible problems from exposure to the silicone? Others will certainly have better advice than I am qualified to give.

here we go:

AC300 is Aqua Clear 300, nowadays known as 70; is a hang on back filter made by Hagen; following the advices of a reefkeeper (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=679159&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) (btw I have to thank him for posting it) I decided to modify my filter in a fuge; after a few hours everything was prepared; I never thought in the rush of the work and excitement of the new "product" that the silicone was bad ; few hrs l8er browsing the RC forums, as always, I saw a guy mentioning something about kitchen silicone as not being reef safe; I then posted the thread; hope it's clear now

sequential
02/22/2006, 08:29 AM
cokevanilla, I hope you understand my comments were not aimed at you. The tone was getting less helpful and more nasty, so I thought I'd say something to hopefully refocus on helping.

Thanks for the explanation, though, I happen to have the same filter in my 20g and will likely make the same mod now that I've seen it. Cheers.

crazyfingersmike
02/22/2006, 08:48 AM
SOME bath & kitchen silicone has anti-bacterial and anti-mold chemicals in it. But not ALL. So to anwser the original question: "It depends". On what? On if the silicone is 100% pure silicone or not.

Go to the LFS, pay the extra 2-3 dollars and get what you can be sure is aquarium safe silicone.

Qwiv
02/22/2006, 07:08 PM
Tag:
GE Silicone II, 100% silicone kitchen & bath sealant is one of the few products that is totally safe. I have called their 800 number myself and asked. Some of their packages say aquarium safe as well. The problem is silicone isn't silicone isn't silicone. That is like saying all saltwater is the same or all concrete is the same.

The fact is most sealers you buy contain a fungicide inside of them to prevent the sealer from changing color. Arsenic is still a very common chemical, although many companies have started using other fungicides in the last 10 years. Remember silicone breast implants causing health problems in women?? Remember why? Either way, the fungicide is not a chemical you would want in a salt water aquarium with sensitive animals be it arsenic or other. I have been working with building products for some years now, so I think my advise is applicable here.

Chemicals leach from the silicone over time. Not seeing a bad reaction in 24, 48 or 100 hours does not mean it is safe. If you don't believe me, go lick some lead paint for a week, I guarantee you will be fine.

Two things make silicone aquarium safe:
No Toxins
Bonding Strength.

With your application bonding strength is not an issue, but fungicide inside the silicone MAY be depending on what you used. Post the product used, or call the 800 number on the package. If you can get the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for the product YOU USED, you can know for sure if it is safe or not.

The reason you should let the silicone cure is that it releases chemicals during that time. One of them is ammonia. This can be a problem in a tank with a poor biological filter. It could start a small cycle in the tank. This is probably not a problem in you case.

cokevanilla
02/23/2006, 01:21 AM
thanks everyone for the input

my hat to Qwiv and sequential

btw i used the same silicone as tag did; just checked the ingridients

cutnup
04/15/2007, 11:27 PM
so how did things work out for you? i used some in a refugium i made and was wondering if i should just start all over again or let it curen longer.

rhino509
04/16/2007, 01:35 AM
i used ge silicon 2 and had a frag wipeout,the number 2 has bioseal/mold agent,so i ripped out the baffles,stripped out the old silicon,used silicon 1(without the bioseal) and voila,no problems whatsoever.just for what its worth

cutnup
04/17/2007, 11:53 PM
yeah i used the silicone 1 kitchen and bath then found out i may have made a mistake and ripped it all apart now there is excess on the pvc board and am wondering if i should just buy another piece or what

rhino509
04/18/2007, 02:59 AM
there was a little bit of excess that i just could not get out of the sump.i just let it cure overnight and went for it.had no further problems.