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acmeguy
02/21/2006, 09:52 PM
Randy,

I am trying to right a series of wrongs and right now my magnesium levels (according to Salifert) are about 300 ppm low. Yikes.

How can I bring this up closer to the recommended 1300 ppm?

Will your Part 3 work? My only problem is that I am having a hard time locating a dealer for the Magnesium product you recommend here in Calgary, Alberta.

Steve

Randy Holmes-Farley
02/22/2006, 07:01 AM
If you cannot find Dead Sea Works MAG Flake or Pellet, I would suggest using ESV or Kent's magnesium supplements. Using Epsom salts will work, but unless cost is a big concern, the concern with elevated sulfate may predominate for such a big addition because it raises sulfate about 4 times as much as magnesium.

How are you supplementing calcium? If you use calcium chloride, that makes using Epsom salts less of a concern.

acmeguy
02/22/2006, 08:49 AM
In the past, I have used Bionic and Kent 2 parts but I found that calcium and alkalinity were falling out of balance. I am a relative newby although I have kept marine fish in the past. Adding LR to the equation has accentuated my early errors.

Recently I started using Salifert's All in One and I have brought the alkalinity up to 9 dkh but the calcium stayed low so I started using Tropic Marin's powdered Calcium additive. I have also been able to bring up the calcium via this method but the Magnesium is way low. Hence my cry for help. I would very much like to start using your recipe for Ca/Alk and Magnesium I have just had trouble finding the brands of constituent components you recommend.

Steve

Randy Holmes-Farley
02/22/2006, 03:22 PM
When calcium is abnormally low, you need to boost it with a calcium only supplement, like calcium chloride, not a supplement that supplies both calcium and alkalinity. With such a balanced additive, raising calcium by 60 ppm boosts alkalinity by 3 meq/L (8.4 dKH). Typically that cannot happen before precipitation of calcium carbonate starts, so that method doesn't work well.

acmeguy
02/22/2006, 04:17 PM
Randy,

I have found Dow Flake 77% locally, yeah...

They also supply Arm & Hammer USP # 1 Sodium Bicarbonate...

And,

they have a magnesium chloride hexahydrate manufactured by Dead Sea Works Ltd!

It is not packaged as Mag Flake, these people are upstream of any re-packagers.

This is the typical analysis provided on the product. Can you look it over and give me your blessing on using or not using it.

Also, if these are the correct consituents, can you help me use them to correct my imbalances as you noted above?

Major constituents:

Magnesium Chloride min. 46.5% max. 47%
Calcium Chloride max. 2.2%
Sodium Chloride max. 0.8%
Potassium Chloride max. 0.5%
Water of Crystallization - up to 100%

Minor Constituents:

Sulphates 0.02%
Magnesium Oxide max. 0.1%
Iron max. 10 ppm
Heavy Metals ( pb, Hg) max. 0.1 ppm
Arsenic max. 0.1 ppm
Cadmium max. 0.01 ppm

ph of aqueous solution 9.2

No mention of Ammonia made.

Awaiting your wisdom...

Steve

Randy Holmes-Farley
02/23/2006, 06:33 AM
That analysis alone wouldn't be sufficient to say it is OK, but assuming it is from the Dead Sea Works, I'd use it. :)

steve the plumb
02/23/2006, 07:23 AM
Randy is using epson salt safe if you are using it to raise mag levels alone.Is it safer to find another source for mag.I think I have asked you this in the past due to the sulfate in the epson salt but I seem to have forgotten the answer,sorry.

acmeguy
02/23/2006, 07:28 AM
Randy,

I'll see if they have a more detailed breakdown, but the sheet I had faxed to me was definately from the Dead Sea Works Company in Israel.

Assuming all is good, can I make your recipe and use the individual components to normalize each parameter and once normalized, continue on with normal dosing as per your article. I have a Milwaukee PH meter which indicates that the ph in my tank hovers around 8.3 - would you recommend Recipe 1 or 2?

At this point, the tank has LR, a number of fish and a few mushrooms but no LPS or SPS corals.

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I am righting several newbie errors made over the course of the last year and a half. I have been using Rowaphos to reduce phosphates in the column but I am still growing algae on the surface of the LR. I have heard several stories whether true or myth about phosphates on or in the LR which fuel the algae. I have also read about removing these phosphates via differing methods some of which seem controversial on this board, 'cooking' being one of these methods.

Can I assume that if the column tests OK for phosphates and I am using Rowaphos and the algae persists that the rock needs to be replaced or do you have another suggestion. Could the subject of this post be a contributing cause to the algae? My salinity is 1.023 - 24.

Finally, since your recipe indicates that all things commercial :strooper: come from all things generic, have you ever come across the generic product (gfo) that is re-packaged into Rowaphos and can it be had in larger (and therefore less expensive :D ) quantities. I have deciphered that Bayer AG was involved in the product in some way.

Wow, big post with lots of questions... Thanks for all of your assistance Randy

Steve

steve the plumb
02/23/2006, 07:37 AM
Are you using R/O water?once you have phos in the water it will fuel the algea to grow.I have had this problem in the past using bad water plus bad lighting(wrong spectrum)Do you have a clean up crew?This is a great way of getting rid of algea.Do you have any Tangs.They love to eat off the rocks.I have a few and they always pick off the rocks.Snails and hermits do a great job cleaning up.Maybe you might want to use a phos reactor.You have the mud in the sump do you have calerpa?

Randy Holmes-Farley
02/23/2006, 08:01 AM
[I have a Milwaukee PH meter which indicates that the ph in my tank hovers around 8.3 - would you recommend Recipe 1 or 2?

What have you been dosing for alkalinity that resulted in pH 8.3?

Can I assume that if the column tests OK for phosphates and I am using Rowaphos and the algae persists that the rock needs to be replaced or do you have another suggestion.

Maybe, but you may just need more GFO. I'd certainly try that first. :)

Finally, since your recipe indicates that all things commercial come from all things generic, have you ever come across the generic product (gfo) that is re-packaged into Rowaphos and can it be had in larger (and therefore less expensive ) quantities

Perhaps, but it is not easy to get in the US (don't know about Canada). Check this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=691054

acmeguy
02/23/2006, 09:12 AM
Randy,

The water in Calgary is naturally alkaline but not to the extreme. I have friends with African Cichlid tanks that maintain an 8,0 - 8,2 ph without additives...

The only thing that I am dosing is the Salifert All in One.

I do use RO/DI water NOW, and have been for about 8 months. Got the unit from Air Water Ice.

Not currently using limewater. The only topoff used is straight from the RO unit.

Mike, I have a Purple Tang, Yellow Eye Tang, Foxface, Flame Angel, Coral Beauty, Emperor Angel Juvenile, B&W Heni, Brazillian Royal Gramma, Clown Tang and 2 True Percs. The fish are all healthy and happy. Small clean up crew also present.

I have acquired a fluidized reactor from Andy at MRC and am going to hit the tank hard with GFO, hence the question about generic sources.

Will it be safe to correct calcium and magnesium with those components of your recipe?

Thanks so much!

Steve

acmeguy
02/23/2006, 10:05 AM
Steve The Plumber, sorry for referring to you as Mike... I have a 3 week old son who is the latest reason not to get a full nights sleep these days...!

Steve

Randy Holmes-Farley
02/23/2006, 12:33 PM
Will it be safe to correct calcium and magnesium with those components of your recipe?

Yes. :)

If you can get both the mag chloride and Epsom salts, then a 10:1 ratio by dry volume is a good way to go for a simple additive. Using my exact recipe is also OK. :)

steve the plumb
02/24/2006, 08:50 AM
is it safe to use epson salt sowly as a tool to raise mag levels?

Randy Holmes-Farley
02/24/2006, 11:38 AM
The concern with elevated sulfate is the same in the end, whether you raise it fast or slow. If the rise is not too much, or if you are using a lot of calcium chloride, then using Epsom salts for magnesium is OK. :)

ClubReef
02/24/2006, 06:16 PM
acmeguy - where did you find the supplements? I live in Calgary also...

Sorry to hijack the thread

acmeguy
02/24/2006, 07:26 PM
Hey ClubReef!

We need a club in Calgary...

Well, it took some digging but I have found all of the ingredients at Univar. They are located on 78th Avenue in the Foothills Industrial Park. I have been dealing with a salesman named Will. They carry the Dow Flake, Arm and Hammer Sodium Bicarb on hand. The Dead Sea Works Magnesium has to be brought in as they do not stock it in Calgary but it is a catalogue item.

The Dow Flake is just under $ 20 for a 50ish lb bag. The Sodium bicarb is USP # 1 powdered and sells for $ 1.44 kg and the bag is 22.7 kg. The mag chl hex is approx. $ 35 per 50 lbs. Overall, a great deal...

I also have them looking for Bayoxide E IN-20 which is basically Rowaphos...

I have ordered 2 bags of each. If you want to email me or get in touch just let me know.

Steve