Ozone Safety Warning!!!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

An article in the NY Times yesterday reported on an EPA study that is to come out in April. It shows that even low levels of ozone contribute to premature mortality.

IMO, anyone that can smell ozone in their setup, and especially in rooms of their house, should be warned about is toxicity. The health risks are sufficiently high that some folks may decide to not use it for that reason alone.

I have some articles coming up in the next few Reefkeeping Magazines on ozone, and this section from the first one highlights some of the health issues with ozone.

Ozone's Effects in the Lower Atmosphere


0.003 to 0.010 ppm
Lowest levels detected by the average person (by odor).

0.08 ppm Latest EPA study (to publish April 2006) reports significantly increased risk of premature death in humans. Each 0.01 ppm increase results in a 0.3 percent increase in early mortality.

0.001 to 0.125 ppm
The natural ozone concentration in air.

0.1 ppm
The typical maximum allowable continuous ozone concentration in industrial work areas and public and private spaces.

0.15 to 0.51 ppm
The typical peak concentration in American cities.

0.2 ppm
Prolonged exposure of humans under typical work conditions produced no apparent effects.

0.3 ppm
The threshold level for nasal and throat irritation. Some species of plant life show damage.

0.5 ppm
The level at which Los Angeles, California, declares its Smog Alert No. 1.; can cause nausea and headaches.

1 to 2 ppm
The level at which Los Angeles, California, declares its Smog Alerts No. 2 (1.00 ppm) and No. 3 (1.50 ppm). Symptoms: headache, pain in the chest and dryness of the respiratory tract.

1.4 to 5.6 ppm
Causes severe damage to plants.

5 to 25 ppm
Lethal to animals in several hours.

25+ ppm
Likely lethal to humans in one hour.

[KevinM]

Wow...this is intersting.
From the sound of this, if you're a welder, you're pretty much doomed to a short life. That's ashame, too, 'cause I really like the smell of a bustling welding shop. Smells like a....lightning storm.

K

[dhoch]

Randy,

Is there any way to test the level of ozone in the air?

Dave

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't know of a home way to test for ozone.

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6855060#post6855060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
I don't know of a home way to test for ozone.

Just curious, but what is a "commercial" or "industrial" way then?

[Anemonebuff]

Try contacting OSHA. They are the ones who determine what is safe at a work site, that includes air pollution standards.

[dhoch]

Randy,

Please comment on these links (I searched after getting your reply):

http://www.air-zone.com/detector.html

either the test strips, or the unit...

Dave

[Billybeau1]

$304.99 :eek:

Every time I turn around, this hobby sucks more money out of my pocket. It never ends :D

[dhoch]

That's for continuous monitoring... the test strips are only $35.... and should tell you what you need to know (if they are any good)... that's the question.

Dave

[HotHotHot]

0.001 to 0.125 ppm
The natural ozone concentration in air.

So, just breathing is hazardous? Of course the alternative is also hazardous. :rolleyes:

Ed

[brian3]

The industrial way to detect is with a gas monitor for ozone. That is actually what I do for a living - designing portable gas detection equipment for a large safety company. I am currently working on a handheld ozone detector among others. Unfortunately they are not that cheap but that does not prevent me from doing some testing at home with one of ours.....

[dhoch]

brian,

What about those test strips... are they accurate at all?

Dave

[idua]

I know that it’s going to be different for different people but in general at what level of concentration (ppm) can ozone be smelled in the air?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I posted this above, but it relates to smelling in clean air:

0.003 to 0.010 ppm
Lowest levels detected by the average person (by odor).

from:
http://www.ozoneservices.com/articles/007.htm

Here are some meters:

http://www.ozonemeters.com/products.html

[SunnyX]

WOW!!!

Was planning on adding an ozone unit but now I have to reconsider.

Thank you RHF for the heads up.

I look foward to your article.

[brian3]

Dave,
I am not familiar with the test strips and accuracy. Sorry.....

Brian

[idua]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6855870#post6855870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
I posted this above, but it relates to smelling in clean air:

0.003 to 0.010 ppm
Lowest levels detected by the average person (by odor).

from:
http://www.ozoneservices.com/articles/007.htm

Here are some meters:

http://www.ozonemeters.com/products.html

My apologies, somehow I missed it. So basically if we can’t smell ozone in the air (around the tank) we should be safe.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So basically if we can’t smell ozone in the air (around the tank) we should be safe.

That is likely true. :)

I know that if I send ozone into my skimmer (where I cannot easily pass the air outflow over adequate GAC) the whole basement smells strongly of ozone. I will not do that any more.

[raskal311]

what does Ozone smell like?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is a pleasant, sweet smell. You sometimes detect it around photocopiers.

[Blazer88]

Well this post explains why my wife (scientist in bio-chemistry) won't allow me to have ozone in the tank, lol.

[scylam]

smell like... pungent

[phetish]

well... i'm doomed... i worked at kinko's pushing the "big green button" as we used to call it. 30,000 copies daily for my entire time there...

as for the smell... walk into kinko's and take a big whiff. that's the smell of ozone.

as Grr (from invader zim) would say... doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom... are we there yet?

derek

[physicslord]

"I love the smell of Ozone in the morning ... smells like victory."

[marinelife]

This is very interesting!

[captbunzo]

I think this is great information and awareness of the dangers of ozone is important, as with any dangerous substance, critter, etc, that we use in this hobby. However, I think that we also want to avoid people freaking out and creating a new myth. I.E. "Ozone is dangerous and just shouldn't be used in marine aquariums."

Rather, awareness, caution, good ideas on how to prevent and respond to ozone problems. These meters, test strips, test cards, etc, are all great.

Also, just the basic knowledge of what Ozone smells like is probably a great preventative measure. Squirt a little ozone into the air from your generator and let everyone who lives in the house know what it smells like. Then plug your ozone generator into a specific plug with a switch, and then label that plug/switch with a big OZONE label. Teach people if they smell Ozone, turn it off and let you (the reefkeeper) know. And go through that training 2-3-4 times a year.

Just my two cents.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This other thread has some useful discussion, including what concentration you'd get by putting 25 mg of ozone into a normal sized room (18 ' x 16' x 8' ---> 0.3 ppm)

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=789279

[roons]

to me , adding ozone to enjoy a tank while your still here is worth it, the taxes are going to kill you anyway

[drtango]

Looks like another reason, besides clutter, drips, leaks, spills and noise to have a basement sump!! I love what ozone does for my tank, and can't imagine that a few PPM in my basement matters much...


John

[RAIAR]

How about somebody mentioning all the BENEFITS of using Ozone!

Not only in your aquaria, but also in your home and workplace.

TTUL
Gary

[LittleBlueGT]

by Randy Holmes-Farley

I know that if I send ozone into my skimmer (where I cannot easily pass the air outflow over adequate GAC) the whole basement smells strongly of ozone. I will not do that any more.

That is why I vent my skimmer outside:

No smell inside.
No carbon to change on waste-collector.
NO OZONE ESCAPING IN HOUSE.
Less humidity indoors.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That is a good solution. :)

[roons]

how is this done?

[pk1]

How about somebody mentioning all the BENEFITS of using Ozone!

Hello,
There are quite a few threads on the benefits of OZONE, for instance:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=517084&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

and:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=639805&highlight=OZONE

But not many stating the dangers, just speculation.

Patrick

[mr pink floyd]

ozone is one of the big five pollutants, it is formed from car exhaust+sunlight nad heat, it is one of the key elements in smog

it is oxygen in its triatomic form, O3

damn im good and im only in 9 grade haha

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

On Monday, my Reefkeeping article will detail more chemistry and biochemistry of ozone in seawater than most anyone cares to read. :D

[sttroyiii]

In searching for DIY ozone generators on the 'net, I found some debate over how safe ozone is. The main issue that was being discussed was if it causes cancer. Im surprised no one has mentioned it here. I would link to it, but it was a 'hydroponic grow' forum where I found the info. That was the only concern they discussed, cancer.

[arconom]

Are there any issues with the minimal amount of ozone produced with UV units?

[kirstenk]

Randy.....how are you dosing Ozone?

Doh.........just read about it in the other thread. :D

[xtm]

I have an Air Purifier in my room that has a switch to turn the Ozone feature ON or OFF... It has been ON for about two years now.. I've been inhaling that stuff for years. I think I'm doomed

[rbaker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6854449#post6854449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
An article in the NY Times yesterday reported on an EPA study that is to come out in April. It shows that even low levels of ozone contribute to premature mortality.


Hey Randy,

Did they say what actually caused the premature deaths? Was it cancer, respiratory problems etc...?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

id they say what actually caused the premature deaths? Was it cancer, respiratory problems etc...?

I'm sure the full study does. I don't recall if the blurb in the NY Times said so or not.


Are there any issues with the minimal amount of ozone produced with UV units?

An underwater UV sterilizer that hobbyists use? IMO, no. Any small amount of ozone produced there will react with bromide in the water and form non-airborne products pretty rapidly.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That was the only concern they discussed, cancer.

One of the main byproducts of ozone reaction with seawater is bromate, a suspected carcinogen.

[FishhyRen]

how about running something like this on the outlet side of the skimmer: http://www.ozonemeters.com/ODS-2P_product.html ?

Or even running a second air pump under the tank near the skimmer....

Only $80... Wonder if it's better/worse than carbon...

[cutsupremetrib]

i own an ecoquest air purifier that has ozone in it is this bad for u honestly because ecoquest says its good go to here

www.ecoquest.com

[reefmutts]

My hot tub has an ozonizer running, and my wife and I use it almost every day. Wonder if I'm in danger. I also run chlorine in my hot tub, which is also been known to cause cancer. What about the carbon monoxide that they inject into fresh meat packages to keep in the color, I ve been eating that for years and years, that can kill you in high doses as well, don't walk though the muffler smoke of your car. I'm sure that's not good for you either. I am doomed, doomed! I'm going to go live in a bubble.

Oh and by the way: The practice of injecting carbon monoxide into meat packaging has been banned in some 3rd world countries. Wonder why??? US keeps doing it.. But this is another subject.

Don't get me wrong, I do think that using ozone one must be aware of the dangers, but lets not blow it out of proportion.

[brian3]

Industrial portable gas detectors for ozone are typically set for 0.1 ppm low alarm and 0.2 ppm high alarm based on government regulations (OHSA etc). Hey if you want breath that all day long and your kids developing lungs as well. For me I would prefer not to. People continue to smoke knowing the extremely harmful effects as well, go figure.......

[Rueg]

I once read a article that suggested that oranges cause cancer. I think everything does!!! Seriously, ozone is dangerous at certain levels. What those levels are though is open to speculation. Would be nice to see some scientific proof. But then again they can prevent scientific proof that oranges cause cancer, so anything can be spun.

[RamPuppy]

hmm... wonder how many law suits sharperimage is going to be getting in the near future.

[roons]

noone addressed how a skimmer is vented outside...............

[chiton]

Never used ozone, but I always wondered about it's use in reef tanks. We monitor ozone levels 24/7 in our Cambridge, MA lab due to it's reactivity to various chemicals we work with. Inside our building, but outside of our ozone controlled areas, levels during the winter are very low (<5 ppb), but during the warmer days of summer levels peak at~50-60 ppb. Things are probably much higher outside. Commercial options for ozone control can be local around laboratory instruments with enclosures, or laboratory wide with special carbon based air duct filters. This can run 10-50k to modify a large air system. I don't know if there is a filter that can used, or if it would even work, for home use forced air. There are several companies that sell small units that claim to reduce ozone within a room. Not sure how well these work.
Cleanair Ozone Purificatoin Unit (http://www.instaoffice.com/Kleenair-Model-2500-Ozone-Air-Purification-System.ASO-2500.0.7.htm) <p> Chiton

[mr pink floyd]

reefmuts, CO (carbon monoxide) will not harm you if it is packed in meat, right as the package is opened, the gas will diffues out into the air, and it qwill b in very low concentrations, that CO does is essentially czuses a sunburn like spot in your lungs, it literally cooks your lungs, which can cause various cancers im pretty sure, also in high doses it can kill you, it literally choks off oxygen until you fall asleep and die, it gives you a headache nad stomach ache, youd know if the CO in the meat was harming you, and it shouldnt be

as for the hot tub, thats a bit risky, runnign that thing is liek runnign a car, ozone is a secondary pollutant from car exhaust and sunlight as i stated earlier, so you are contributing to the pollution, now dont get me wrong one little hot tub wont do much, if anything at all, but get a bunch of those runnign all day, and it could be bad, but i think you would know if you were inhaling the O3 from the hottub, it should be safe for you, the chlorine, i was not aware of it causing cancer, but i wont doubt it, it an cause eye and skin irritation for sure, but as long as its not a gas it should be ok, i mena people swim in it every day, maybe in the long run in 100 years you might get cancer from it, but i wouldnt worry if i were you

[LittleBlueGT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6876633#post6876633 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roons
noone addressed how a skimmer is vented outside...............

My waste collector is an IO bucket. The buckett has a 1 inch ID flexible tube that extends from the outlet of the waste collector (most waste collectors have an outlet that allows carbon to be connected to it) to the exterior wall. I drilled a hole in the wall and stuck the tube through it, then sealed the edges with silicone. It works great year round, even on our cold winter nights!

Only thing to keep in mind is that a lot of condensation goes through this tube. The tube has to travel uphill or downhill the whole way. If it has a dip in it the condensation will slowly develop into a puddle and eventually block the line.

[roons]

oh, i have a euroreef cs6-3, no waste collector.....................i had my air inlet run outside for ph purposes, till i realized why my skimmer kept overflowing................in the winter the cold air coming thru the tube would form condensation due to warm air around tube inside house, once the venturi sucked in this condensation it was all over....................

[LittleBlueGT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6878211#post6878211 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roons
oh, i have a euroreef cs6-3, no waste collector.....................i had my air inlet run outside for ph purposes, till i realized why my skimmer kept overflowing................in the winter the cold air coming thru the tube would form condensation due to warm air around tube inside house, once the venturi sucked in this condensation it was all over....................

Air inlet does not work well for a skimmer (unless you take air directly from a heat exchanger) but an outlet works wonders with no effect from season to season.

[JxMetal]

I guess this could come in handy and it's cheap.....as cheap as it can get.

http://www.iaacm.org/freeozonetest.html

[colesy]

I can't beleive something so bad for you is used so much.. I also find it funny that some of these people worried about breathing in ozone probably smoke.. I don't understand how these smokers can be so concerned about occasionally breathing in a bit of ozone, but will inhale toxic smoke into their lungs on purpose and think nothing of it..... :confused:

[npaden]

Randy, the data you put in your initial post seems to be contradictory.

First you posted:

0.08 ppm Latest EPA study (to publish April 2006) reports significantly increased risk of premature death in humans. Each 0.01 ppm increase results in a 0.3 percent increase in early mortality.

Then later in the same post:

0.2 ppm
Prolonged exposure of humans under typical work conditions produced no apparent effects.

If prolonged exposure under typical work conditions (assuming 8 hours per day, 5 days a week = 2,080 hours a year) produced no apparent effects, how much exposure at less than 1/2 that concentration is it taking to have the significant increased risk of premature death? 24/7/365 exposure?

These just seem to contradict each other.

[colesy]

I noticed that too. I figured it was just a type though.. A misplaced zero perhaps. Might be good to clear up though.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is not a typo. The 0.08 ppm data is the new result that the EPA will publish, and is the reason for this thread. The other is the older, existing standard.

[LittleBlueGT]

I had faith in you RANDY!

[mr pink floyd]

im sure you can get ozone out of a cigarrete too colesy, i mean ozone is a secondary pollutant from car exhaust + sunlight, so tar and other carbinacious materials in cigarretes probably can make ozone too...

[spyro]

Is the .08 ppm number applicable for prolonged exposure or for short term exposure?



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6899330#post6899330 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
It is not a typo. The 0.08 ppm data is the new result that the EPA will publish, and is the reason for this thread. The other is the older, existing standard.

[colesy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6902627#post6902627 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr pink floyd
im sure you can get ozone out of a cigarrete too colesy, i mean ozone is a secondary pollutant from car exhaust + sunlight, so tar and other carbinacious materials in cigarretes probably can make ozone too...

That's what I figure as well, which is why I find it funny how the people that smoke get so concerned when reading this article.. Don't mind me, I am a bit of an anti-smoker..

[reefD]

r you saying that the sorce of this ozone can be from the heating of a home?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is the .08 ppm number applicable for prolonged exposure or for short term exposure?


Long term prolonged exposure, as I understand it, but the whole study is not yet published.

r you saying that the sorce of this ozone can be from the heating of a home?

I'm not sure who you are asking, but it can't come from any normal heating system.

[yznhmr]

you talk about filtering the exit air from the skimmer.. i have carbon on my Collection cup.. but wouldnt you get some that escapes through the water exit?

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6908510#post6908510 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yznhmr
you talk about filtering the exit air from the skimmer.. i have carbon on my Collection cup.. but wouldnt you get some that escapes through the water exit?


You also need to pass the water out of the skimmer trough activated carbon. A god sized bag of Carbon in the sump before returning to the tank shall do. Note that you may still have some in the bubbles that come out with the water, I try to minimize it covering that section of the sump.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

you talk about filtering the exit air from the skimmer.. i have carbon on my Collection cup.. but wouldnt you get some that escapes through the water exit?

That can be a significant complication of using a skimmer (at least some skimmer designs), IMO. I choose to use something different (an ozone reactor), where I can easily pass all of the water and air over GAC. :)

[reefD]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6907580#post6907580 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Is the .08 ppm number applicable for prolonged exposure or for short term exposure?


Long term prolonged exposure, as I understand it, but the whole study is not yet published.

r you saying that the sorce of this ozone can be from the heating of a home?

I'm not sure who you are asking, but it can't come from any normal heating system.
ok sorry i dont have time to read back but you guys speaking of our tanks and equipment possibly giving off ozone?

[RichConley]

Randy, it seems that from what I've read, detectable levels by human noses are about .003. Thats like 1/26th of .08. So at prolonged exposure to 24 times the detectable level, there is a .3% chance in early death?

So to get a 1% chance of early death, you need about 75 times the human detectable level? That doesnt seem like a big deal to me... I'd think at 75 times the human detectable level, no one would be able to stand the smell...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why would you suppose that if you smell it, that it is just at the lower limit of detection? During a stage 2 smog alert in LA (1 ppm), people are not walking around complaining of the smell.

In some ways of using it, my whole basement stank. No GAC on the air output, for example. I'm sure the levels were above the minimum for detection, especially near it.

Anyway, my concern is really for the folks that report routinely smelling it, and may be using it in their living rooms, not for folks using it in a basement, and who can barely detect an odor when sniffing right at the output (which is how it is in my normal operation).

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

ok sorry i dont have time to read back but you guys speaking of our tanks and equipment possibly giving off ozone?

No. Ozone generators giving off ozone. :)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

[mr pink floyd]

if your whole basement smelled strgonly of it, the air would be blue, O3 has a blue color, and is easily broken up by CFC, chloroflorocarbons, which were foudn in old aresol cans, by cholrine, or bromine, those simply creak up O3 into O2 and O, but bromine and chlorine are A. both bad for you, B. cause wholes in the ozone layer if concentrated enough, after time, but i dont think ozone is a good idea. Its also very flammible, so you are luck your house didnt blow up when your whole basement smelled like it...

still i wouldnt trust it

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6911814#post6911814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr pink floyd
... is easily broken up by CFC, chloroflorocarbons, which were foudn in old aresol cans.....
...... but i dont think ozone is a good idea. Its also very flammible....
still i wouldnt trust it

Just a couple of notes here.... I understand that by the Montreal protocol, CFC production has been phased out in most of the world.
Also It is sometimes a misconception that Ozone (as well as Oxygen) are highly flammable. The gases themselves are not flammable at all but under certain circumstances can support combustion of materials that otherwise would not be flammable in normal air. When in contact with materials readily flammable like oils and grease the reaction is so fast that can turn explosive.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if your whole basement smelled strgonly of it, the air would be blue, O3 has a blue color,


So you think that I either am making up the smell, or didn't notice the air was blue? :lol:

Trust me, the air can smell of ozone without turning blue.

[mr pink floyd]

no no no im not tryign to call you a liar, im jus tsaying i thought you sed it smelled really strognly of it, i would have thught it would haev turned blue, but yea im sure it can.

if i smelled ozone that strongly i would have turned off all pumps and anythign electrical, even a thermostat, eve na small spark can set it off, very flammible

[bureau13]

So if we overdose this stuff can we save on electricity by turning off our actinics?

:D

sorry...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A few ppm ozone is very toxic, stinks, is not blue by eye, and is not going to ignite. :)

Bear in mind that the blue ozone liquid is abut one billion times more concentrated than 1 ppm in air. :)

[labragg1]

Good thing to know!!

[hllywd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6856738#post6856738 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marinelife
This is very interesting!

It is.... I swear whenever I go to BW3 I smell ozone. I assume it's from their Smoke Eaters....

[jkapit]

Thanks for the info.

I recently bought an Acqua Medic ozonizer, but could not get it to work with out smelling ozone so I just decided to stop using it, to me the risk is not worth it.

The only other thing I would add is that those who do run ozone, they do make ozone test kits at about $7 a pop. That could help ease anyone's fears that they may get sick from their ozone setup.

[trippyl]

So interesting. I didn't buy an O generator and went with UV instead specifically because I was worried that my tank, which sits in the living room, would not have a good way to export any leftover O.

Of course, this is assuming that the NY Times reporting is factual, given their tendency towards the hysterical, this is a serious question.

[21Reefman]

Mr. Pink Floyd, You are a smart kid, I applaud your enthusiasm.
I think you will find that, what we are taught as facts should still be taken with a grain of salt. Knowledge is relative and even those text books, were still written by a human. Life is not so black and white. Be careful when you pontificate on things, when your relative experience leaves you with little to pontificate from. I'm not trying to insult you, I just doubt you are going to teach Randy Holmes-Farley any new tricks:)
Sorry but, it just seemed like your facts were from a narrow spectrum of a much broader scoped issue, and you sounded like you have a PhD, when you still have much to learn. And I mean that in a nice way.:) Keep up the good discussion:)

[Old Yeller Tang]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6945333#post6945333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 21Reefman
Mr. Pink Floyd, You are a smart kid, I applaud your enthusiasm.
Keep up the good discussion:)
I don't think he'll be able to.:confused:

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6909121#post6909121 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
you talk about filtering the exit air from the skimmer.. i have carbon on my Collection cup.. but wouldnt you get some that escapes through the water exit?

That can be a significant complication of using a skimmer (at least some skimmer designs), IMO. I choose to use something different (an ozone reactor), where I can easily pass all of the water and air over GAC. :)

Randy,

Which reactor do you use ? If it is DIY, are there any links to plans for it ? Thanks in advance :)

[dhoch]

I'm wondering if anyone has gone out and purchased or had the free disks (see link earlier) sent to them and tested their tank/area?

Dave

[hllywd]

if i smelled ozone that strongly i would have turned off all pumps and anythign electrical, even a thermostat, eve na small spark can set it off, very flammible

Not true. They are oxidizers and will not burn on their own. That episode of Emergency was bogus.... They will however facilitate rapid oxidation or "burning" of flamable substances. Certainly if you think you have a flammable atmosphere you should immediately exit the building and call 911 from the neighbor's house, the last thing you should do is activate any kind of switch, pull a plug, etc.... Switches sometimes cause a small internal arc that could set off an explosion.:cool:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Which reactor do you use ? If it is DIY, are there any links to plans for it ? Thanks in advance

I used the Coralife Ozone Reactor, but didn't care for it and stopped. I now use a home made reactor using a 100 foot coil of HDPE tubing, that I describe in detail in the next ozone article (coming out April 5). :)

[dhoch]

Just as an FYI,

I ordered a set of detector patches and placed them in 3 spots:

1) Inside my stand (where my skimmer is that I am running ozone)
2) by my tank
3) opposite side of room from my tank

Now I run a 100mg Ozonator into my skimmer, I do not run carbon over the air exit on my skimmer (i.e. around the collection cup), but I do run carbon on the outtake of my skimmer...

I was concerned after reading this (I have a really bad sense of smell) thread.

My findings... all 3 detectors meausred lighter than the color of 40 parts per billion! (i.e. I'm in the safe zone).

So bottom line I'm still going to continue to run ozone the way I have.

Dave

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6960357#post6960357 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley

I used the Coralife Ozone Reactor, but didn't care for it and stopped. I now use a home made reactor using a 100 foot coil of HDPE tubing, that I describe in detail in the next ozone article (coming out April 5). :)

So you really prefer not to run the ozone through your skimmer ? (I am leaning heavily this way myself lately)

I can't wait for that next article to come out :D. Thanks again for all of your efforts.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So you really prefer not to run the ozone through your skimmer ? (

When I did, the ORP was no higher than with the reactors, and the whole basement stank of ozone.

I discuss the pros and cons of skimmers for ozone in the article. It often isn't an optimal use, IMO, since it is not typically optimized for the things one would want when using ozone, but I recognize that most aquarists use it that way, and may not care if it is optimized or not.

The blow off of ozone gas is the biggest drawback, IMO, and you need to work out a solution (some of which are shown in the article; skimmate collectors with carbon on the air outlet, or commercial air/carbon filters, for example).

[Sparkss]

Thanks.. I will reserve any further questions until after the article is published. :)

Thanks again.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome. :)

[alten78]

well i was all gung ho to get an ozone reactor or run it through my skimmer, but after reading this thread (tank is in family room, no basement) im not so sure...hurry up april 5th!

[dhoch]

alten,

You probably missed my post about 5-10 up... go check it out... it might make you re-think... I think caution is a good thing, but I don't know how much this is really an issue.

Dave

[mr pink floyd]

I apologize for the way I sounded in my posts earlier, I was not trying to teach, or tell Mr. Randy Holmes-Farley anything, I was merely trying to see what i had learned from school. It was liek studying for a test, what I said was just to test my knowledge, and I'm sorry to anyone who took offense to it!

BTW I got a 98 on the test!

hehe

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No problem. :)

Here's another test for you:


Reef Chemistry Quiz 2006
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-01/rhf/index.php

[Slickdonkey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6961541#post6961541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by alten78
well i was all gung ho to get an ozone reactor or run it through my skimmer, but after reading this thread (tank is in family room, no basement) im not so sure...hurry up april 5th!

What happens April 5th? Sorry for being ignorant, but I'm also lazy and don't want to read through 4 pages.

I'm considering an ozone unit as well, I'm curious to see what comes of this.

[bandedangel]

thanks for the info

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6986356#post6986356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slickdonkey
What happens April 5th? Sorry for being ignorant, but I'm also lazy and don't want to read through 4 pages.


Not a flame, but just an observation that you are going to have a hard time in this community with that attitude. Again, just an observation. Best of luck to you

[Billybeau1]

April 5th or there abouts will be Randy's 2nd part article of 3 on ozone. His first is aleady out. He will publish part two in April and part three in May (so i've heard). Should be very informative judging from his former articles.

[wlagarde]

Randy - Where will this "paper" be published. I would like to read the study and examine how it was conducted before I come to a conclusion about the findings

Cheers

[mr pink floyd]

WOW

waaaaayyyyy to advanced for my little 9th grade brain!

[Billybeau1]

Stick around Mr. Floyd.......... Maybe you'll learn something. :D

BTW - All and all you're just a ............nother brick in the wall ....

[hllywd]

:lol:

[cutsupremetrib]

I have to say this is bull**** I work for a company called ecoquest international we use ions to charge the air (ozone) inside homes to purify the air my father who is 76 years old has worked here for over 35 years and is very healthy I also feel much better when my purifier is running although you cannot smell it unless you have it really far cranked up.

just my apple and two bits

[Slickdonkey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6986858#post6986858 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
Not a flame, but just an observation that you are going to have a hard time in this community with that attitude. Again, just an observation. Best of luck to you

I was being fecitious, but thanks for the advice, I'll go join a twelve-step program to see what's wrong with me.

It would have been just as easy for you to give some useful information instead of criticizing... a common attitude around I here I see. Some people have other things to do than spend 20 minutes poring through pages of chatter to get at the useful information.

And thank you, Billybeau1.

[21Reefman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6988028#post6988028 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slickdonkey
I was being fecitious, but thanks for the advice, I'll go join a twelve-step program to see what's wrong with me.

It would have been just as easy for you to give some useful information instead of criticizing... a common attitude around I here I see. Some people have other things to do than spend 20 minutes poring through pages of chatter to get at the useful information.

And thank you, Billybeau1.

Hey "slickDONKEY" I'm not jumping on ya but, come on! The thread is only 5 pgs. long,:eek2: your answer was not too far back.

sparkss was only restating; that by your own qualification,(YOU said these things!!!) you are far too lazy and ignorant to bother yourself with a little 4pg thread.....


In my opinion; That would mean that you are too lazy and mindless to ever enjoy the conversation like format here, let alone ever have anything useful to offer.. If you can't read 4pgs then you are going to have a hard time with anything.
You just had a poor attitude.

Don't think so negatively :thumbsup:

BTW; I had plenty of sarcastic, and facetious comments come to mind. I did not say any of them because I'm not trying to insult you, nor fill this with rhetorical humor, only for you to see how your post was seen as a negative attitude.

[roons]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6986356#post6986356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slickdonkey
What happens April 5th? Sorry for being ignorant, but I'm also lazy and don't want to read through 4 pages.

I'm considering an ozone unit as well, I'm curious to see what comes of this.


you turn your clock ahead

[Billybeau1]

Actually its April 2nd..... but it was funny :lol:

Hope we're back on track folks. Happy Sunday

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy - Where will this "paper" be published. I would like to read the study and examine how it was conducted before I come to a conclusion about the findings

This EPA study will publish in "Environmental Health Perspectives (EHP)" in April. By their own statement, EHP " is a monthly journal of peer-reviewed research and news on the impact of the environment on human health. EHP is published by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences and its content is free online."

Here is the abstract:

http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2006/8816/abstract.html

and some commentary on it:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060216231940.htm


My articles (on ozone use in reef aquaria; March, April and May 2006 Reefkeeping) post at:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

[wlagarde]

Randy - Thank you for the references...

Best, Bill

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

Happy reefing. :)

[fishgirl7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6856290#post6856290 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by raskal311
what does Ozone smell like?

it burns my nose..
if you go into a bar and don't smell smoke they are using ozone.

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6996480#post6996480 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishgirl7
it burns my nose..
if you go into a bar and don't smell smoke they are using ozone.

Or you live in California, or any of a number of other states that don't allow smoking in a public building :)

[cchoffman]

Walk into a Best Buy or any electronics store. That sweet smell is ozone.

[mr pink floyd]

I am learnign alot!

juts nothing for the quiz lol

this is very interesting though

[gnikoli]

When I visited the Long Beach Aquarium they talked about their use of ozone and how they have never recorded anything approaching a dangerous concentration. (Of course, we are talking about a major dilution effect in those large public spaces.) I think ozone can be used safely under the right circumstances, but it is not something to take lightly.

It sure would be nice if one of you with a high-dollar meter would compare it to the results from the badges that are available and report back.

[mr pink floyd]

how does a reactor work, where does the single oxygen molecule, we learned ozone is O2+0=O3

[gnikoli]

A reactor is essentially a vessel in which an electrical spark (Corona-Discharge) splits an O2 into 2O and then the O's immediately combine with a couple of O2's to make 2O3's. O3 is very unstable and doesn't last long because that extra O is easily lost. In other words, O3 is a strong oxidizer because it is highly electronegative and can gain electrons by oxidizing a substance. All the talk about the health benefits of antioxidants give you some idea why too much O3 is a bad thing.

I work in the fresh fruit industry and there is lots of work being done with O3 as a sanitizer and anti-fungal agent. O3 is used commercially in enclosed spaces and around lots of people so it can be used safely.

[Sparkss]

gnikoli,
Actually you just described a generator. A reactor is a place where the ozone can contact, and react with, the water, air, or whatever else we are trying to purify with the ozone.

[gnikoli]

Agree, but thought maybe he just used the wrong word based on the rest of his sentence.

[Sparkss]

Agreed also, I wasn't 100% sure what he was asking since his post appeared to have missing words :)

[asmodeus]

ok here is a post from the past ,sorry for bringing it up. I need help here. I have a Euro reef Cs 250 and a Red Sea Ozone controller with probe 200Mg im going to be setting it up here soon to the skimmer that is running on my tank 170 gal with a 20 gal refugium and a 35 gal sump.

How should i run the carbon on the skimmer Should I make a container to sit on top of the euro reef collection cup lid to hold carbon.

mike