PDA

View Full Version : Maybe I'm not getting the big picture...


OneThunder
03/01/2006, 09:29 PM
my thought was the sand or coral in the bottom of the tank was full of "stuff" that helped with the bio system in the tank. I have two fish that clean up the bottom. my hsuband thinks we should "vacuum" the bottom. Am I missing something?

sdsheeks
03/01/2006, 09:31 PM
I never clean my sand.....It would all drain out into a bucket. It is a lot different than the gravel.

Dave

selgado
03/01/2006, 09:34 PM
It takes a long time to build up enough "stuff" to efficiently process the detritus (fish poop). Until then, your sand bed is a net increaser of nutrients in your tank and it can be tough to manage. I have been known to stir a small section of my sandbed, just before I replace my filter pad so I get a lot of what I just stirred from the sand bed out.

bigbenji
03/01/2006, 09:36 PM
I think you vacuum gravel in freshwater tanks, just because it looks bad. Your sand bed is part of your filtration system, and it would disappear if you vacuum it. If it's getting "dirty" try increasing the flow or maybe stirring up that section a little. If you get the crud into the water column it should get filtered out.

hllywd
03/01/2006, 09:38 PM
I vacuum mine whenever I change water. I try to do it as gently as I can to not suck up too much sand. The sand I do remove goes back in with the new water... There's always some silt I can remove and make the sand bed look better.

OneThunder
03/01/2006, 09:38 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860496#post6860496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
It takes a long time to build up enough "stuff" to efficiently process the detritus (fish poop). Until then, your sand bed is a net increaser of nutrients in your tank and it can be tough to manage. I have been known to stir a small section of my sandbed, just before I replace my filter pad so I get a lot of what I just stirred from the sand bed out.

I have crushed coral it's like the consistency of gravel.

hllywd
03/01/2006, 09:44 PM
I think you should sweep it if you want, it will always look cleaner. Just my opinion though.

Dubbin1
03/01/2006, 09:45 PM
I don't think you are even getting the small picture :D ;)

OneThunder
03/01/2006, 09:55 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860618#post6860618 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
I don't think you are even getting the smal picture :D ;)

I take back the nice thing I said about you on the Nora website :mad::D

skippysmind
03/01/2006, 10:00 PM
:lmao:

bigdaddyadam
03/01/2006, 10:06 PM
I too have crushed coral and I use a vacumm attachment on my tubing to vacumm as much of the substrate as possible when doing a water change, I usually get a LOT of deterious material out that way. I think this is THE major differnce between CC and SB. crushed coral traps a LOT of junk and due to its nature it doesn't provide a whole lot of means for processing it, it just collects and then you get funky cyano outbreaks on the surface and what not. I advise you to vacumm with a tube vacumm as much as possible. you can get one at meijers or Gary's cheap.
your tank will look much better if you do.

I personally want to change over to a sandbed at some point but it will be a big chore so not right now :)

sandbed folks are also vacuming? how are you able to do so without sucking out the sand itself?

Dubbin1
03/01/2006, 10:07 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860726#post6860726 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OneThunder
I take back the nice thing I said about you on the Nora website :mad::D

But you were talking about Adam :)

bigbenji
03/01/2006, 10:08 PM
Would nassarius snails help? I've seen them burrow into crushed coral.

Dubbin1
03/01/2006, 10:10 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860853#post6860853 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigbenji
Would nassarius snails help? I've seen them burrow into crushed coral.

nassarius snails are like a freaking little army. I will always have them in my system.

hllywd
03/01/2006, 10:16 PM
I do vac my sand Adam most of it's heavy enough not to suck out but if it does I dump it back in. Istill get the detritus on top of the sand and like to remove it once in a while. I just don't get as crazy as you would with CC...:cool:

KingDiamond
03/01/2006, 10:17 PM
I never vacumm the sand or crushed coral in a reef system! It pulls out all the macroinvertebrates that you want in the substrate. Anyone I know with a sucessful reef system never has put a gravel vacumm anywhere near thier tank.

Brad

OneThunder
03/01/2006, 10:19 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860845#post6860845 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
But you were talking about Adam :)
Nope. check it out-Post by Dubbin1

Dubbin1
03/01/2006, 10:20 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860945#post6860945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
Anyone I know with a sucessful reef system never has put a gravel vacumm anywhere near thier tank.

Well I would like to think that I have a successful reef and I vacuum my sand when I feel it needs it.

hllywd
03/01/2006, 10:22 PM
I'd disagree King, what about people with BB tanks? They don't have a sand bed or CC anyway. The sand bed isn't absolutely necessary in the first place. I just prefer to have mine clean looking and it seems to work...:cool:

bigbenji
03/01/2006, 10:23 PM
Brad, you should put your credentials in your signature. I only know because I've read the TRAC forum too. Someone with your knowledge and experience can certainly teach us all.

OneThunder
03/01/2006, 10:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860853#post6860853 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigbenji
Would nassarius snails help? I've seen them burrow into crushed coral. I think Spot would just eat them :eek1:

skippysmind
03/01/2006, 10:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860974#post6860974 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
Well I would like to think that I have a successful reef and I vacuum my sand when I feel it needs it.

I tried that and it shocked the **** out of me, and I also had to explain to my wife why the Hoover was in the reef.

hllywd
03/01/2006, 10:27 PM
Shame on you Jeff... No GFCIs????

Dubbin1
03/01/2006, 10:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6861031#post6861031 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skippysmind
I tried that and it shocked the **** out of me, and I also had to explain to my wife why the Hoover was in the reef.

Jeff you're FIRED :P

OneThunder
03/01/2006, 10:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860945#post6860945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
I never vacumm the sand or crushed coral in a reef system! It pulls out all the macroinvertebrates that you want in the substrate. Anyone I know with a sucessful reef system never has put a gravel vacumm anywhere near thier tank.

Brad I have Fish only Live Rock :rolleyes:

KingDiamond
03/01/2006, 10:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860999#post6860999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigbenji
Brad, you should put your credentials in your signature. I only know because I've read the TRAC forum too. Someone with your knowledge and experience can certainly teach us all.
I would not want people to think if they didn't listen to me that they were wrong. One thing I have learned about reefs is what works for one person doesn't neccessarily work for others. But on the other hand I do know that there are things that always work!

Brad

bigbenji
03/01/2006, 10:34 PM
I'm guessing you've spent a just few years professionally studying these matters. I'll take any advice you have to offer.

hllywd
03/01/2006, 10:35 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860945#post6860945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
I never vacumm the sand or crushed coral in a reef system! It pulls out all the macroinvertebrates that you want in the substrate. Anyone I know with a sucessful reef system never has put a gravel vacumm anywhere near thier tank.

Brad

But Brad you specifically excluded what I know works with your absolute surety my reef can't be sucessful if I vacuum.... not sure I follow the line of thinking:confused:

Dubbin1
03/01/2006, 10:40 PM
Hey Brad I forgot to mention

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To NORA</b></i></big></big>

skippysmind
03/01/2006, 10:41 PM
There you go hllywd starting trouble again :D

KingDiamond
03/01/2006, 10:42 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6861112#post6861112 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd
But Brad you specifically excluded what I know works with your absolute surety my reef can't be sucessful if I vacuum.... not sure I follow the line of thinking:confused:
Actually, I don't know you so the fact that your reef is successful and you vacumm your reef proves my point. What works in one tank may not work in another.

Brad:)

hllywd
03/01/2006, 10:44 PM
OK... I give, I'm too tired....

bigbenji
03/01/2006, 10:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6861062#post6861062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
One thing I have learned about reefs is what works for one person doesn't neccessarily work for others
Brad

He covered his butt.:D
you guys are in a fightin' mood tonight aren't ya

back on topic:

If you've got a FOWLR I think you might need to vacuum the sand bed once in a while. I'd stir up a small portion every once in a while anyway.

KingDiamond
03/01/2006, 10:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6861173#post6861173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigbenji
He covered his butt.:D

you guys are in a fightin' mood tonight aren't ya

There is just too many ways to keep any kind of fish tank, let alone reef tanks. We wouldn't have the technology we have today if no one ever tried anything more then once.

Brad

bigbenji
03/01/2006, 11:01 PM
Its not a reef. Its a FOWLR.
Sorry, I forgot that its crushed coral. I also forgot that you've got some snail eaters in there. I would stir it up a small portion once in a while just because nothing else will. Not much or you'll cause a dust-storm.

bigdaddyadam
03/02/2006, 09:51 AM
hey if this was sand, I am sure that inverts and what not could help keep it churned and clean, but CC is too big for most microinverts to move and clean efficiently, I have tons of micro life in my substrate which I see non-stop, but they don't keep the CC moving so with the excess nutrients in the CC I get weird algea's and cyano type outbreak's in small portions of the surface that can only be ended by vacumming and turning over the clean CC underneath. also the tank looks WAY better after one of these cleanings and the water clarity goes way up.

it's just something I do, and given that much of the CC is under or too close to or between the rock work and the bottom of the tank I can only vaccumm the visible portions, so large parts still go undisturbed.

selgado
03/02/2006, 09:56 AM
As you can see OneThunder, the 'big picture' resembles a 'where's waldo' poster. Come to think of it, I never could find him.

bigbenji
03/02/2006, 10:00 AM
goofball

hllywd
03/02/2006, 10:35 AM
Onethunder, as you can see it's a matter of what works, when somebody jumps in and says you "HAVE" to do something this way or that or you'll fail, check out the claim. As you can see here a claim (all my buddies and their buddies and their buddies..) was made with no facts to back it up and and quite a few claims to the contrary. I learned long ago when something "absolutely always is the case" it usually isn't. You will need to ask for evidence and then make your own decision. Once you do that, then you can answer this question for the next noob... or at least add your 2 cents...:D

KingDiamond
03/02/2006, 12:51 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6863479#post6863479 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd
Onethunder, as you can see it's a matter of what works, when somebody jumps in and says you "HAVE" to do something this way or that or you'll fail, check out the claim. As you can see here a claim (all my buddies and their buddies and their buddies..) was made with no facts to back it up and and quite a few claims to the contrary. I learned long ago when something "absolutely always is the case" it usually isn't. You will need to ask for evidence and then make your own decision. Once you do that, then you can answer this question for the next noob... or at least add your 2 cents...:D
Go to the Toledo Zoo and look at the 1200 gallon reef exhibit, never been siphoned. The fact that the origional tank in question is not a true reef, different story. Siphon fish only tanks all the time. By the way never once did I say "have" or did I say not doing it one way would fail. I stated that I never do something and nobody I know does a particular thing, that is in no way an inditement of how you do things. I am sure your tank looks great! I never said it didn't. This is a perfect example why I don't often give adivce on boards, it is easy to take something someone types the wrong way. Sorry if me saying what works for me offended anyone.

Brad

Dubbin1
03/02/2006, 01:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6864460#post6864460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
I stated that I never do something and nobody I know does a particular thing

Then how can you come to the conclusion that siphoning your tank wouldn't help?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6864460#post6864460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
It pulls out all the macroinvertebrates that you want in the substrate

Sorry but I find it kind of silly to think that it will pull out "all" of the macroinvertebrates. Will it pull out some? Yes but it will also leave most behind. Show me a tank that has failed because of siphoning the sand and I will change my ways of doing things.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6864460#post6864460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
I would not want people to think if they didn't listen to me that they were wrong.

Sorry but again that is another silly statement. That just make me think that you don't have any credentials to back up your opinion. If you truly have the credentials then you should let that be known so people can trust your opinion, unless your not sure about it yourself.

Brad please don't think that I'm trying to be a hard a$$ because I'm not. Its just that so far you have not backed up anything that you have said.

hllywd
03/02/2006, 01:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860945#post6860945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
I never vacumm the sand or crushed coral in a reef system! It pulls out all the macroinvertebrates that you want in the substrate. Anyone I know with a sucessful reef system never has put a gravel vacumm anywhere near thier tank.

Brad

Brad, This is what you said last night you are presenting yourself as someone with some expertise. I think that's great and we need people like that. You use the term "never". I believe the opposite is true, should I sit back and not counter that assertion?

Quite honestly I don't know you or your expertise. You may have friends who "never" vacuum, I have friends who always vacuum and probably some who vacuum a little and some who never vacuum (though I doubt it). The difference is you are spreading information to people who honestly don't know the answer, representing your way as the only way and belittle others for having a different idea. I don't think that's doing anyone any good...
Just my opinion, Tim

bigbenji
03/02/2006, 02:10 PM
I presented him as someone with expertise. I never intended for him to be attacked becuase of me. I value his opinion because, due to his profession, he must have knowledge the rest of us do not. He's already said that his way isn't always the best, and that certain things work for certain people. He's already apologized if he offended anyone. He's even followed by saying that he siphons fish only tanks all the time, which answers the original post. I think its time we let it go.

KingDiamond
03/02/2006, 02:14 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6864718#post6864718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
Then how can you come to the conclusion that siphoning your tank wouldn't help?
I never said it wouldn't. I have never had problems with my substrate that would make me need to siphon.


Sorry but I find it kind of silly to think that it will pull out "all" of the macroinvertebrates. Will it pull out some? Yes but it will also leave most behind. Show me a tank that has failed because of siphoning the sand and I will change my ways of doing things.
O.K. I am human! I said "all" when I meant "some". Shoot me. I did not think you had to be the Son of Man to post. Again I NEVER said your tank would fail if you siphoned it.


Sorry but again that is another silly statement. That just make me think that you don't have any credentials to back up your opinion. If you truly have the credentials then you should let that be known so people can trust your opinion, unless your not sure about it yourself.

So because it doesn't say "Have worked in a public Aquarium for 10 years and have Masters level education with inverts" You won't believe anything I say. But if I was some kid trying to cause trouble with those credentials next to my name you would believe me! What I have learned in 10 years of helping people, if they don't think your right then they are not going to believe you anyway! No matter your credentials.

Brad please don't think that I'm trying to be a hard a$$ because I'm not. Its just that so far you have not backed up anything that you have said. Neither has anyone else! People are more believeable if you are more familiar with them. My work is on public display at the zoo.

hllywd
03/02/2006, 02:28 PM
Ben,
It's not my intention to attack. I vacuum my sand, lightly, because it's inevitable some small amount of detritus is going to collect or it just is dingy looking and if I stir the top up i looks more "fresh" and "clean". I doubt I am seriously impacting my population of "micro"inverts to the point of it being an issue with my system's viability, I fact it's hard for me to believe it's not beneficial. I guess the question is, if the tank were bare bottom would we question vacuuming? I will concede the point if you have a DSB or plenum system you may not want to routinely make significant disturbances in the sand bed but still I can't imagine why you'd want to leave the common crud that builds up in the system....

Tim:cool:

bigdaddyadam
03/02/2006, 04:11 PM
I can see where kingdiamond is coming from, in a fairly large tank, with a big sandbed, the accumulation of deterious would not really be an issue, it would be spread out over such a large amount of substrate as to have little effect, however in a smaller tank with a smaller sandbed it probably will unless you have a lot of sandstirring organisms like cucumbers, stars, horsehshoe crabs, etc. that can really move the stuff around. problem I see is that a lot of the big sand movers are doing so to get at the smaller inverts in the sand.

i am willing to bet that in a tank as large as the one you are maintaining at a zoo you don't often need to introduce non-living food for filter feeders and corals. the system probably produces a LOT on it's own. but in our smaller systems a lot of us provide a lot of food for both the fish and the corals, filter feeders, and it is inevitable that a good amount of that will make it down to the substrate as food or waste, causing a lot of problems in the long run. in addition, in a tank as large as 1200 gallons, people probably pay less attention to the sandbed and so some gunk doesn't matter as much.

I think in the end we are just talking about two different "animals" :) so to speak, smaller home tanks and large public tanks. a tank that large can produce and reduce all kinds of things that our smaller tanks need us to do for them.

I totally envy anyone who is able work with large volumes like that, I would love to get a super large tank someday, but that will be a long ways off.

any chance of us getting the behind the scenes tour of the set-up you take care of, the only truely large set-ups I have seen in detail are the ones on tank of the month, might even give us ideas for our home tanks.

OneThunder
03/02/2006, 07:30 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860831#post6860831 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
I advise you to vacumm with a tube vacumm as much as possible. you can get one at meijers or Gary's cheap.
your tank will look much better if you do.





How often is that?

Dubbin1
03/02/2006, 07:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6867646#post6867646 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OneThunder
How often is that?

Whenever it looks dirty.

KingDiamond
03/02/2006, 08:54 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6866178#post6866178 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
I can see where kingdiamond is coming from, in a fairly large tank, with a big sandbed, the accumulation of deterious would not really be an issue, it would be spread out over such a large amount of substrate as to have little effect, however in a smaller tank with a smaller sandbed it probably will unless you have a lot of sandstirring organisms like cucumbers, stars, horsehshoe crabs, etc. that can really move the stuff around. problem I see is that a lot of the big sand movers are doing so to get at the smaller inverts in the sand.

i am willing to bet that in a tank as large as the one you are maintaining at a zoo you don't often need to introduce non-living food for filter feeders and corals. the system probably produces a LOT on it's own. but in our smaller systems a lot of us provide a lot of food for both the fish and the corals, filter feeders, and it is inevitable that a good amount of that will make it down to the substrate as food or waste, causing a lot of problems in the long run. in addition, in a tank as large as 1200 gallons, people probably pay less attention to the sandbed and so some gunk doesn't matter as much.

I think in the end we are just talking about two different "animals" :) so to speak, smaller home tanks and large public tanks. a tank that large can produce and reduce all kinds of things that our smaller tanks need us to do for them.

I totally envy anyone who is able work with large volumes like that, I would love to get a super large tank someday, but that will be a long ways off.

any chance of us getting the behind the scenes tour of the set-up you take care of, the only truely large set-ups I have seen in detail are the ones on tank of the month, might even give us ideas for our home tanks.

Thanks, for taking a different approach bigdaddy! I think the problem began when I thought the tank in question was a reef and not a FOWLR. By the time that came to light the "feeding frenzy" had begun. I know this is hard to believe but when I had my 65 gallon tank at home I didn't vacumm the gravel. Now I was not a festidious as other people about my tank (working in an aquarium makes you "neglect" your home tank a bit). Finally, the birth of my third child made me get rid of it. My gravel may have not looked as "clean" as other people but when I wasn't neglectful of my tank it looked good and the animals were very healthy. If you do lots of water changes, take your time in the begining and have lots of detrivoirs you don't have to vacumm the substrate (this doesn't mean you can't or it bad, I repeat I never said that). Now some people might say since I tore down my tank that it was not good (I don't have any pictures), but many of the animals are on and off display at the zoo or you can ask my brother inlaw what it looked like he tore his down because he couldn't get his corals to grow like mine.The number or species in my tank was low because the colonies were large (I don't like to smush stuff together). At the zoo I kind of have to put more stuff in a tank then I would like. 60% of my 65 gallon was taken up by my favorite corals a Hammer and a Frogspawn. The Frogspawn has been fragged several times a little less that 1/3 of it is on display, some of it is in the Bowling Green State University Marine Lab, and the rest is off display in our coral propagation tank (oh and their is a little bit in our reverse light display). The Hammer is on display also. I had a bright green Acropora species I can't remember which species right now it is either a millepora or something else I tried to key it out looking at the corallites but it wasn't very easy. It even got brighter when I got it under all the 400W metal halides in my prop tank (I ran power compacts at home). So vacumm your gravel every day, if it works for you and your corals grow and are healthy, great. Keep doing what your doing. One thing I do that is probably different then a lot of people nowadays is I don't "feed" my corals. So I probably run my systems with less outside nitrate increase then most people. Once again what works for one person may not work for another. If I was keeping a FOWLR I would vacumm my crushed coral substrate.:) I always hope everyone is sucessful with their reefs or other set ups no matter what they do. Side note does anyone have any idea on how I can catch a candy cane bass out of a large reef? I tried a small hook and line and a fish trap but he is to smart! He is bullying other fish in the tank and I need to add a Copper Band Butterfly to eat Aptasia and I can't add him until I can get that fish out.

Brad

bigdaddyadam
03/02/2006, 09:43 PM
you're going to add a butterfly to a reef? I would be somewhat worried about his selectivity when it comes to feeding, they are know for eating more than just aiptasia, they can go after other stuff, although several sites say they can be kept in larger displays with caution.

have you ever considered bergia nudibranchs? they eat ONLY aiptasia exclusively, while they will take more time to become established and it will require a numer of them to do the job I would think with the resources at your disposal at the zoo you would have no trouble aquiring and or breeding a good number of them. just a thought.

also I agree, it's sort of a to each his own method when it comes to certain things, each tank thrives under different conditions. I don't think you have to vacumm any tank, if it is running properly and you aren't feeding way too much the tank should be fine with no vacumming, but some of us just want that sand or CC to look it's whitest :D

one benefit I have found to vacumming is that it helps to get the underlying substrate (which is still perfectly white compared to surface substrate) to the top. the whiter stuff reflects whiter light and the tank appears brighter, corals get a little more light and seem to open a little better. if I don't vacumm, the surface at the very least starts to get a greenish tint to it that then reflects back into the aquarium and that tint is present throughout, it is in my opinion a little off putting, but then this may be a peculiarity of CC as at LFS with sand beds I rarely see such a dramatic green tint to the substrate. it also may be that the RO water i use from meijers is not perfect and still has a bit of PO2 that helps some algea grow on surfaces.

on a side note I live in BG and have heard good things about the tanks on BGSU campus, do you happen to know if the public is allowed to view them? I am an alumni and had no idea about them until recently, I'd love to take a look if they are open to the public

bigdaddyadam
03/02/2006, 09:58 PM
about the fish you want to catch, have you condiered a fish trap of some sort, perhaps baited with a food that it likes?

second option, although with that much water it may not be a very feasible one, Calfo suggests that a way of making it easier to catch fish out of a reef is to drain out much if not most of the water for a short period of time so the fish has very little water to hide in. if the fish is especially large that should only make it easier for this approach to work. Calfo notes that almost all reef creatures have mechanisms that allow them to be out of water briefly, so it should be no problem if total process doesn't take too long.

what you will need is something or things, possiblely large garbage cans (or not depending on how big the sump, fuge or whatever is and how much it can hold extra) to hold the water and also you will probably need several powerful pumps to make the process of getting the water out and then back in as quick as possible. might I suggest that if you don't have enough pumps with that high a flowrate for this, I know that when they first set up the new store Gary's bought a bunch of powerheads that were designed for ponds, which turned out too be WAY too powerful for what they needed and so they were trying to sell them, the flowrate on them was MASSIVE. I don't know if he still has any of them but if he does maybe you could buy one or two, or given that it's the zoo he may even let you borrow them.

just an idea, here also is the link to the thread where Calfo details the whole shabang

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=707656

hllywd
03/02/2006, 10:03 PM
Adam I haven't been to the lab in a few years and I'm not an alumni... heck I've never actually been a BG student and they were always very welcoming:cool:

hllywd
03/02/2006, 10:06 PM
It's gotta be fun getting a line wet in a reef tank...:lol:

KingDiamond
03/02/2006, 10:13 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6868752#post6868752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
you're going to add a butterfly to a reef? I would be somewhat worried about his selectivity when it comes to feeding, they are know for eating more than just aiptasia, they can go after other stuff, although several sites say they can be kept in larger displays with caution.

have you ever considered bergia nudibranchs? they eat ONLY aiptasia exclusively, while they will take more time to become established and it will require a numer of them to do the job I would think with the resources at your disposal at the zoo you would have no trouble aquiring and or breeding a good number of them. just a thought.

also I agree, it's sort of a to each his own method when it comes to certain things, each tank thrives under different conditions. I don't think you have to vacumm any tank, if it is running properly and you aren't feeding way too much the tank should be fine with no vacumming, but some of us just want that sand or CC to look it's whitest :D

one benefit I have found to vacumming is that it helps to get the underlying substrate (which is still perfectly white compared to surface substrate) to the top. the whiter stuff reflects whiter light and the tank appears brighter, corals get a little more light and seem to open a little better. if I don't vacumm, the surface at the very least starts to get a greenish tint to it that then reflects back into the aquarium and that tint is present throughout, it is in my opinion a little off putting, but then this may be a peculiarity of CC as at LFS with sand beds I rarely see such a dramatic green tint to the substrate. it also may be that the RO water i use from meijers is not perfect and still has a bit of PO2 that helps some algea grow on surfaces.

on a side note I live in BG and have heard good things about the tanks on BGSU campus, do you happen to know if the public is allowed to view them? I am an alumni and had no idea about them until recently, I'd love to take a look if they are open to the public

The butterfly is question lived in my home aquarium because of an Aptasia problem. Needless to say the Aptasia were not a problem for long. I have put clams with Aptasia growing on them in the tank with this fish and he eats the Aptasia without touching the clam, (didn't touch the mantle) althought I still would not trust any butterfly with a clam long term. As for the bergia, they don't work real well in large aquariums (in my experience). It is difficult to keep the population going in a large aquarium, probably because the "food" is so spread out. As for BG lab, you could probably walk in to the lab and look around and no one would say a thing. If you are an alumni and can find a place to park with a meter I wouldn't think it would be a problem (don't park in a spot that requires a permit you WILL get a ticket). One of our part time employees still deals with the guy who runs the lab (Adam, I can't remember his last name) I will as him the next time I see him (I'am on vacation) and see if it would be a problem. I haven't been there in a while but a lot of the tanks are kind of make shift tanks to save the University money. It kind of fun to see how other people get around the problem of limited funds. It is probably much better then the last time I was there. I know they are always looking for donations so if you have any 400W metal halides laying around I am sure my Acropora tenuis frags I donated to them would regain their bright blue tips and the University would be awlfully happy too.

Brad

KingDiamond
03/02/2006, 10:16 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6868936#post6868936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd
It's gotta be fun getting a line wet in a reef tank...:lol:

Actually, it's the most frustrating thing in the world!!!

Brad

bigbenji
03/02/2006, 10:34 PM
(insert very distasteful Larry the Cable Guy "frustration" joke here)

bigdaddyadam
03/02/2006, 11:56 PM
wow, so you have a copperband that's been trained to play nice :)

I'm half tempted to see if I could borrow him for a few days and let him chomp all the aiptasia in my 55, there's not a ton but there are enough to fill him up for a few days, win win LOL

OneThunder
03/03/2006, 05:04 AM
Brad [/B]

:eek1: Does the NORA club ever have meetings at the zoo? :D

KingDiamond
03/03/2006, 11:31 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6869679#post6869679 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigdaddyadam
wow, so you have a copperband that's been trained to play nice :)

I'm half tempted to see if I could borrow him for a few days and let him chomp all the aiptasia in my 55, there's not a ton but there are enough to fill him up for a few days, win win LOL

He has been good for about five years. I have never given him/her the opportunity to swim in a tank that has any real "fleshy" LPS's thats a little to risky for me. I am going to expose him to some xenia an see if he "plays" nice. Hopfully it passes the test.

Aquatic Aquaman
03/03/2006, 12:07 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6870327#post6870327 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OneThunder
:eek1: Does the NORA club ever have meetings at the zoo? :D

NORA doesn't have club meetings but I've been talking to Brad and TRAC is looking into having a meeting at the Toledo Zoo for a Behind the scenes tour. This will be discussed at our next meeting in April to find the best time for everyone to meet there and to talk to brad on what day works best for him. If your interested please come to our next meeting. We're looking to meet for a Zoo Meeting sometime in May. One of the perks on becoming an Organized group.

Dubbin1
03/03/2006, 12:14 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6872393#post6872393 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
NORA doesn't have club meetings

Again, we DO plan on having meetings once the weather gets nice. If it goes anything like our first meeting then we should have a pretty nice turnout.

Aquatic Aquaman
03/03/2006, 12:18 PM
Sorry, I just remember a posting that said you didn't have meetings only got together at each other's houses in Findlay, and another posting in a forum that said you were only a social forum. I wasn't aware of your future plans. You should open a sticky forum so you guys can discuss the future of NORA. Keep me posted on the second meeting because I would also like to attend even if it means for me to drive to findlay.

hllywd
03/03/2006, 03:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6872476#post6872476 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
Sorry, I just remember a posting that said you didn't have meetings only got together at each other's houses in Findlay, and another posting in a forum that said you were only a social forum. I wasn't aware of your future plans. You should open a sticky forum so you guys can discuss the future of NORA. Keep me posted on the second meeting because I would also like to attend even if it means for me to drive to findlay.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=660287&highlight=meeting


The thread above is about how much luck we had putting an formal meeting together. I really don't know how necessary it is... Maybe we don't have meetings but I think we're doing a good job of networking... There's three of us that it's very easy for, with another 2 or 3 who are very local. I had the idea once the weather is good to meet on my deck where the beer (or Dr. Pepper) is unusually cold, order a couple pizzas and maybe have a walking tour of the 3 or 4 tanks in walking distance including the frag tank @ Dwayne's.:cool:

skippysmind
03/03/2006, 06:46 PM
We had a few informal meetings, it's just that there was only three of us. I can't wait until we hold one a Tim's house with the keg on tap and the pizza from J&D's.

MACDad
03/03/2006, 06:54 PM
Tell me when and I am there :D Would love to meet some more people, and you can't go wrong with pizza and beer.

bigbenji
03/03/2006, 07:10 PM
I'll drive for a kegger. :D

OneThunder
03/03/2006, 07:16 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6872393#post6872393 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
NORA doesn't have club meetings but I've been talking to Brad and TRAC is looking into having a meeting at the Toledo Zoo for a Behind the scenes tour. This will be discussed at our next meeting in April to find the best time for everyone to meet there and to talk to brad on what day works best for him. If your interested please come to our next meeting. We're looking to meet for a Zoo Meeting sometime in May. One of the perks on becoming an Organized group. That's good. We got our call schedule and I'm on call the weekend of the Swap Meet.:mad2: