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View Full Version : Feeler: Would anyone want to buy some "Southdown"


Travis L. Stevens
03/06/2006, 12:21 PM
If I was to find a supplier and a way to get some aragonite based sand shipped here to Oklahoma, would we have enough people interested in buying it? My guess is we would have to buy a pallet worth. I'm venturing to guess they are 50lbs a bag and be about 56 bags on a pallet. I have no idea what the price would be though. If this was possible, would anyone want any?

indoreefer
03/06/2006, 12:24 PM
So southdown is aragonite based? Does it say so on the bag? I am curious because if it is aragonite I would be interested? Is it mixed with something else, since you are saying aragonite based, not aragonite?

Travis L. Stevens
03/06/2006, 12:36 PM
Well, Southdown and its counterparts (Yardright, Old Castle, etc) are what I would call "aragonite based". There are little things like shells and small rocks and stuff in them. Not much. I would say it's about 95%-98% aragonite. I have a bag of it in my trunk if you would like to see it and you are at the next meeting. I'm donating it to the COMAS UCO Tank. It doesn't say on the bag though and is often labeled "not for aquarium use". But thousands of people, including me, use it all the time. A test for sand is to take one cup of distilled vinegar and place one teaspoon of the sand you want to test in. Over a 24 hour period, most likely less, it should be almost completely dissolved. Aragonite sand will fizz alot in vinegar because it is breaking up the Calcium Carbonate. Regular silica sands will only fizz slightly. This is usually from other things be dissolved and not the silica. You can tell silica sand automatically because of the fine pieces of clear quartz crystal (Silicon Dioxide [SiO2]) that is in them.

FYI, back when I first joined in Dec '04, someone (dustin_Combs, maybe?) had brought back a bunch of sand for COMAS members to buy. Maybe "Dustin?" can chime in with the real story, but I thought I remembered it as someone had bought a pallet full in Texas, and "Dustin?" brought enough back to sell to the COMAS members that wanted it. I was planning to do something similar.

***Disclaimer: You can use silica sand in the home aquarium, but it has a tendency to scratch your tank if caught in your scrapers and does not provide the buffering ability when your pH drops. When aragonite dissolves, it releases Calcium and Carbonate (Alkalinity) back into the system to help keep Ca/Alk elevated and maintain the pH. Of course, this isn't a fix all solution of just sticking sand in the bottom, but if an emergency was to happen, at least the sand will slow down the change of the water parameters to buy you time to fix what went wrong.

pwhitby
03/06/2006, 12:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6892966#post6892966 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
...and is often labeled "not for aquarium use".....

That statement is there to protect the host company that mines the aragonite. the also sell it to a company that bags it as aragonite sand and have most of the market. They will sell you a truck load of the sand, but not if you mention its for aquariums. The same deal goes on the bags. Im assuming it is a marketing ploy by the aquarium guys to keep their market.

Paul.

Travis L. Stevens
03/06/2006, 12:45 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6893016#post6893016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pwhitby
That statement is there to protect the host company that mines the aragonite. the also sell it to a company that bags it as aragonite sand and have most of the market. They will sell you a truck load of the sand, but not if you mention its for aquariums. The same deal goes on the bags. Im assuming it is a marketing ploy by the aquarium guys to keep their market.

Paul.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Paul, I know you have a 600g tank going up. You're going to need some, right? ;)

pwhitby
03/06/2006, 12:51 PM
i have some......

pwhitby
03/06/2006, 01:38 PM
let me rephrase that. I have enough for what i need.

personally, I find southdown too fine. I mix it with caribsea of a larger grade. That works well for me.

Russ Braaten
03/06/2006, 06:28 PM
Travis,

Shipping is the greatest cost in getting it down here. In Home Depot stores that carry it the bags sell for under $5 a bag. You just have to find the right kind of sand as they sell both southdown types and silica cand as play sand.

eddybabyhd
03/06/2006, 07:03 PM
i would be interested in getting in on this if you can get confirmation

okiejaco
03/06/2006, 08:28 PM
I would buy interested in about 4 bags.

ReeferRyan
03/06/2006, 08:39 PM
I may be down for about 5 bags. Let me know.

dustin Combs
03/06/2006, 08:42 PM
The sand that we purchased was yardright sand. The individual that we purchased it from lifed in dallas and he had to buy a tractor trailer load which consisted of 16 pallets with 70 bags per pallet. I talked to him last week and he is out of sand. It is cheaper to find the aragonite sand on line and have petsmart and price match than paying for the shipping for a pallet. IMO.

_Sooner_2
03/06/2006, 10:19 PM
The only way freight would be affordable would be to find a seller that had a good discount with a freight carrier, get them to pre-pay and add the freight. Although, most shippers have a minimum amount you must buy in order to qualify for pre-paid freight. It would also reduce costs greatly to find a shipper within say, 400-500 miles. part of freight calculation is the mileage. Also, there is no way to make sure the shipper is actually giving you his actual freight charge. Many shippers mark up freight on the invoice well above what they actually pay.

Youngsilver
03/07/2006, 04:16 AM
The only way freight would be affordable would be to find a seller that had a good discount with a freight carrier, get them to pre-pay and add the freight.

aka... US foodservice or Budweiser??
Could be a possiblity, I have a meeting with the Vice President tommorow, I'll see what he has to say about this.

Also, I emailed Yardright for the location of their nearest retailer, awaiting a response.

Travis L. Stevens
03/07/2006, 08:30 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6898928#post6898928 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Youngsilver
Also, I emailed Yardright for the location of their nearest retailer, awaiting a response.

I've been searching high and low emailing various sources of possible aragonite sand, just awaiting some responses as well.

Youngsilver, I'm afraid Budweiser wouldn't be able to do it.

I'm not really worried about freight or anything yet. Finding the company that carries an aragonite sand is the hardest part. We can work from there. But, this is just a feeler and everything might fall through so no promises.

TimV
03/07/2006, 01:03 PM
In my opinion, Southdown is way, way too fine. I think it results in anoxic sand at much shallower depths and thus decreases the ability of the sand to properly filter. Considering the cost differences, I'd say just find a supplier of Aragamax. See if one of the LFS will let you buy it at their cost+. A LFS that is no longer around let me buy 10 30lb bags of Aragamax for $16ea.

T

eddybabyhd
03/07/2006, 01:09 PM
i second pauls technique, i mix it with the reef sand aragonite, makes a great texture w/o the solidity of regular southdown, but i am a fan of it...i have a DSB with my mangroves made up of southdown, and love the results i get, course i have enough flow over it to keep sediments from forming, and lots and lots of critters to keep it stirred up

captbunzo
03/07/2006, 01:48 PM
I have a slightly different take on the fine grained sand. I have not used southdown before. However, when setting up my 55G tank recently, I used a product sold by SeaChem called Meridian Oolitic Aragonite (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=8119&inm=1&N=2004+113553+2032). And it is EXTREMELY fine grained. I mean, we're talking sugar fine grain to the max.

Anyhow, I believe there are several benefits to using finer grained sand, such as this. First, finer grained sands allow for natural nitrate reduction at much shallow depths. Second, finer grained sands will be more resistent to settling of solids into the substrate. Lastly, it is ideal for sand sifting gobies, etc.

Here is a LINK (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm) that provides some more info about different grains of sand.

Mostly, I think it is a matter of personal preference. I LOVE the look of this stuff in my tank. It reminds me of those wonderful beaches with this stuff on it. The kind of stuff you want to wriggle your toes in.

Just my two cents...

Russ Braaten
03/07/2006, 03:36 PM
"A LFS that is no longer around let me buy 10 30lb bags of Aragamax for $16ea. "

hahaha Wonder why they are no longer around. I don't think it is fair to ask a LFS to sell at cost.

Here in oklahoma we are not at a place where southdown is super cheap. In my tank right now I have a 50 50 mix and I sifted out the finest grains of southdown.

If we lived where you can buy it for $5 a bag it would be perfect and it would be a duper deal to sift out the smallest dust. I find about 1/3 of the stuff is dust.

In my next setup I will not sift out the dust. It will be mostly southdown that I thankfully able to get from Dustin. I bet the finer sand will raise calcium levels.

Travis L. Stevens
03/07/2006, 03:43 PM
Captbunzo, that Meridian Ootilic looks just like Southdown IMO.

TimV
03/07/2006, 04:01 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6902592#post6902592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Russ Braaten
"A LFS that is no longer around let me buy 10 30lb bags of Aragamax for $16ea. "

hahaha Wonder why they are no longer around. I don't think it is fair to ask a LFS to sell at cost.



I said cost+ . If it isn't something they normally stock, but can get, a 5-10% bonus for ordering something from a regular supplier is a good deal. Marking up for overhead (other than costs of ordering) for something that never sits on the floor isn't necessary.

FWIW, this LFS would always order you whatever they could at cost. I'd throw in a tip anytime I could.

T