need a new skimma

[squirmy]

Howdy. buidling a 120. gonna have softies, LPS, few SPS and a BTA. Standard load of fish. Standard sump & refugium.

I have decided on an H&S if it can meet my needs. Please feel free to share your thoughts...

Sump or External and why?
Gravity or pump fed and why?
Which model and why?

Thanks....

[UCanDoIt]

external A150-F2001, more foam contact with a recirculating model

gravity fed by overflow box that skims off from tank is best as it catches all the garbage in the raw water which tends to float at the top of your tank
pump fed is fine, but it is feeding a mixture of skimmed water and raw water, also the proteins & oils tend to float and if your pump is at the bottom of the sump, it won't catch all the garbage that needs to be skimmed

A150 is rated for tanks up to 225g, everyone wants a little more power than just meeting the minimum requirements HTH

[squirmy]

Thanks Ucan. That is one nice skimmer. Anyone else want to chime in?

[UCanDoIt]

Sent you PM, check your PM inbox. You're welcome.

[FinsReef]

I would go with the A150-F2001 would be my first choice. This skimmer allows for more user adjustability, and installation options. It can be run external, or used in Sump. It allows you to adjust the air-input, water level, and flow-thru rate independently of each other.
I would gravity feed the skimmer due to the fact as it will allow the most protein laden water to go directly into the skimmer first. By gravity feeding, you will not have the added expense, heat, or wattage of a feed pump.

On the other hand, the 150-F2001 is easier to set-up and adjust and is still a great performer. Depending on how much room and the way your sump is set-up it is a better choice for some.

HTH,
Brian

[squirmy]

OK. We have a winner (A150-F2001). Now for my list of dumb questions.

1 - How much flow should i run through the skimmer? I am considering the Oceanic 120 with twin overflows. I was thinking of having 600gph run though the refugium, XXX run through the skimmer and the rest dump into the return section of the sump. How does that sound?

2 - How tall should I make my stand to accomodate the 26" of skimmer? How much height is required to maintain (change collection cup)?

3 - What else should i be considering?

thanks...

[FinsReef]

1. It is recommended to run up to 225gph thru the A150. Slower is fine, but I would not exceed 250gph. Just make sure you overflow does not cause surging into the skimmer.
2. It only has to have ~1/2" to remove the cup. A standard 120g All-glass or Perfecto stand has enough room remove the skimmer cup.
3. The only main consideration is the plumbing of the skimmer drain. Make sure it does not go up hill, necked down, or terminated under the water surface.

[squirmy]

Thanks Brian.

1 - How can i ensure that only 200 gph is feed to the skimmer? I think I can do some backwards math (return pump less head divided by 4, etc), but is there a more precise way?

2 - as far as the skimmer drain, are there drawings out there that show the right way and the wrong ways to avoid?

[squirmy]

Thanks Brian.

1 - How can i ensure that only 200 gph is feed to the skimmer? I think I can do some backwards math (return pump less head divided by 4, etc), but is there a more precise way?

2 - as far as the skimmer drain, are there drawings out there that show the right way and the wrong ways to avoid?

[nm354]

I was wondering the same thing about controling the amount of flow to the skimmer. I am considering this same skimmer for my 75 and i am running a hang on overflow box with two drains.

[nm354]

never mind i typed before i thought. Just T off your overflow drain and use a ball valve to control the flow

[squirmy]

So, you use a T. I get that. What i dont get is how to *measure* how much to control? How can one determine how much water is flowing into the skimmer?

[FinsReef]

The best way it to get a gallon measure and catch the water coming out of the skimmer. It should take 18 sec to fill up a 1 gallon.

1 ltr should fill up in 5 seconds.
33.81 fl ounces in 5 seconds.
2.11 pints every 5 seconds.

[UCanDoIt]

Filling a 1g milk jug from the T off the drain coming from your tank:

150gph takes approximately 24secs to fill 1g
175gph takes approximately 21secs to fill 1g
200gph takes approximately 18secs to fill 1g
225gph takes approximately 16secs to fill 1g
250gph takes approximately 14secs to fill 1g

HTH. When you T off the drain pipe, use the ball valve to control and adjust waterflow to the 1g milk jug. Allow the rest of the water to bypass and go out the other direction of the T towards your sump or refugium.

[squirmy]

Great. Thanks. Next question is plumbing related. Brian - you mentioned the skimmer drain do's and don'ts. Are there drawings available? i need to design the sump and want to be sure i drill/size correctly.

[FinsReef]

squirmy,
I will get around to some pics tomorrow, my drawing ability is pitaful :).

[UCanDoIt]

As for the T fitting with ball valve control, you would need to setup this way where the strongest flow is straight through the T and the ball valve is on the other side of the T to slow down to required flowthrough rate. This straight through setup eliminates uneven water level in the skimmer, surging and gurgling. The aquarium tech that setup my tanks gave me this simple drawing. HTH

<a href="http://usera.imagecave.com/winner/GravityFeedPlumbing.jpg"><img src="http://usera.imagecave.com/winner/icth_GravityFeedPlumbing.jpg.jpg"></a>

The lower the ball valve is away from the T, the less surging which disrupts the constant waterlevel you need in the skimmer.

[squirmy]

Thanks UCan. This is helpful.

What i need now is an understanding of the plumbing requirments FROM the skimmer and TO the sump to be returned to the tank.

Fin indicated that -- "The only main consideration is the plumbing of the skimmer drain. Make sure it does not go up hill, necked down, or terminated under the water surface."

As I will be have my sump custom made, i need to understand the plumbing requirmetns from the skimmer to the sump.

thoughts?

[UCanDoIt]

I have spent many many hours talking to the my Aquarium tech (who maintains all my tanks) about plumbing and he's tried it all, made his share of mistakes, and the way he has my tank set up works great.

There are 3 controls on the skimmer:
1. Input controlled by gravity feed from overflow with ball valve or pump with the correct rate
2. Output controlled by ball or gate valve at skimmer's drain
3. Air flow controlled by air valve

To set your skimmer correctly (as I am told):

1. first you must be sure the water flow through rate is matched to your skimmer. most of the time, for gravity feed, one would need to tailor the rate back by ball valve in control #1 as the water turnover rate is usually much stronger than your skimmer can accept. or you can feed skimmer with a correctly rated pump or powerhead

2. next, with the water flow through rate adjusted correctly, the water level within the skimmer must be at the right level for the skimmer to perform optimally. water level should just at the bottom edge of the bayonet connection between the collection cup and skimmer body. the highest water level you should have is no higher than the top edge of the bayonet top edge and the lowest is no lower than 3/4" below the bayonet connection. my Aquarium tech likes the skimmer water level on the high side, so even when the water flow through rate is correct, the water level is too low for him. so in order to tailor back the outflow from the skimmer drain and to raise the water level within the skimmer, he puts a ball valve or gate valve on the output, which is control #2, and the drain does terminate underwater in the sump. so, the comment that the outflow should not be underwater is a preferred situation, but works great even if you terminate underwater (unless with the correct water flow through rate, the water level in your skimmer is already at the top edge of the bayonet). all that happens when the exhaust terminates underwater is puts a little backpressure on the system, but that just increases the water level in the skimmer, which in my situation is on the low side when the water flow through rate adjusted correctly. the benefit of having the drain terminate underwater is no splashing noise at all.

3. adjust the air valve for maximum foaming with control #3. on both my Deltec and H&S skimmers, it is tailored back approximately 1/4 - 1/3 which gives me the finest bubbles and good foaming head.

HTH, this is just one example of how it can work. Many others have different ways that they setup their skimmers.

[UCanDoIt]

My aquarium tech read my response to control #2 on the output and told me that I was mistaken. My description on the output is true for my Deltec skimmer. For my H&S skimmer, the controlled output is the wedge pipe and yes, the exhaust does not function well if it is submerged in water. My setup is I have a 90 elbow and directs the water down into the sump, but the end of the pipe is about 1/2 above the sump water level. I also have a 45 degree elbow installed at the end of the pipe so the water returning to the sump is much quieter. Sorry for the earlier error, wrong skimmer.

[FinsReef]

OK, Sorry for the delay, but here is a few pictures, LMK if you need some more examples
1. This way is wrong, and will cause surging and backpressure
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/finsreef/DSC00099.jpg


2. These ways are good.


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/finsreef/DSC00093.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/finsreef/DSC00179.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/finsreef/DSC00097.jpg

3. This will work, but make sure the length to the sump is not over 2 foot.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/finsreef/A150probs.jpg


Also make sure that you down not neck down the skimmer output size. If it comes with a 1 1/4" ouput, use 1 1/4" or larger pvc to run the return.

It is better to use 45 degree elbows than 90 elbows.

HTH

[squirmy]

Thanks Brian, so what is the distance between the base/floor and the drain of the skimmer. IE, how tall can i have the water line in the sump?

[FinsReef]

On the A150, it is 17.25" to tje bottom of the elbow, and 18" to the Center of drain.
MLK if you need any more measurements.

Thanks,
Brian
Fins Reef

[rappyfly]

Hi

What is the air intake connected to on the second picture? Is it a muffler?Can we have a close up look?

Thanks

D

[FinsReef]

The second picture is of a Grotech 150 skimmer. It is an air muffler. It is basically a peice of pvc with two caps with hose nipples on each end.

[squirmy]

Thanks Brian - MLK? about measurements?

[FinsReef]

Oop's didn't see that, I meant to Let me know if you need additional measurements.

[reefbegood]

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