Blue Tang In Hypo [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

mis20t

03/08/2006, 02:23 AM

I purchased a beautiful blue hippo tang about 2 weeks ago. He has been in a barebottom well cycled 50 gal quarantine tank. All water parameters are good

After about 1 week he came down with a very heavy coating of ICH! I stared hypo and he has been down at 1.009 for the last 4 days. It looks like most of the ICH has fallen off but he is scratching like mad. So much so that it looks like his skin is flaking off. Could this be a side effect of the ich coming off or am I looking at another problem?

Otherwise he is still eating good and seems to be breathing ok.

Please Help

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 04:29 AM

I think it's from the hypo...it sad to me to see people stress out a fish further by sticking it in an even more stressful situation. But then again, I'm one of those believers in allowing the fish to build a natural immunity.

Dawn II

03/08/2006, 05:43 AM

How do you do that?

reg828

03/08/2006, 05:50 AM

mis20t. just my idea. this product called Nova aqua plus. try using it. it might help. its actually a conditioner but it can also be used as protective slime coater, or stress coat. its not harmful to the tank but it might help.

BTTRFLYGRL

03/08/2006, 07:09 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6907184#post6907184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by XeniaMania
I think it's from the hypo...it sad to me to see people stress out a fish further by sticking it in an even more stressful situation. But then again, I'm one of those believers in allowing the fish to build a natural immunity.

Ahhhh, natural immunity? :rolleyes:

Hypo is NOT stressful. Stress is having parasites feeding on you, irritating your skin, making you weaker and weaker with each cycle.

Leaving a fish to build up a so called 'immunity' is irresponsible and cruel.

Mis20t,

How often are you doing water changes? Are you monitoring your Ph and ammonia? I have 2 qt tanks with new Tangs, both going through hypo..I do daily water changes even though my tanks are cycled. You should be doing water changes at least every other day.. If the fish has only been in hypo for 4 days, he may still have ich feeding on him...once they drop of, they should not return.
Are you using a Refractometer? if not get one..swing arm hydrometers are worthless!
You did the right thing by treating your fish. Once the treatment is done, he'll be healthy and parasite free....had you left him alone he probably would have died

BTTRFLYGRL

03/08/2006, 07:10 AM

Oh and BTW

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"> <big><big>To Reef Central</big></big>

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 10:42 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6907481#post6907481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BTTRFLYGRL

Leaving a fish to build up a so called 'immunity' is irresponsible and cruel.

I've never lost a fish to Ich infestation. Call me lucky then.

Freed

03/08/2006, 12:15 PM

How can having a fish in QT by itself be "more stressful" than putting it directly into a tank teeming with fish that want to kill/bully it?

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 12:31 PM

Would you find is stressful living in an elevation of say 10000ft? And if you're putting a fish into a tank where it's gonna get bullied, I'd say it's your bad to begin with.

Freed

03/08/2006, 12:44 PM

Fish are known to be able to tolerate low salinity very well. That's your lesson so please learn from it.

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 01:04 PM

Well, we do what we please with our fish right? To each their own.

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 01:09 PM

btw...natural immunity kicks in IME within 3-5 days, again like I've said, call me lucky.

BTTRFLYGRL

03/08/2006, 01:37 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6909668#post6909668 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by XeniaMania
btw...natural immunity kicks in IME within 3-5 days, again like I've said, call me lucky.

Where is this documented?

NeilPearson

03/08/2006, 02:32 PM

mis20t

03/08/2006, 03:28 PM

Thanks BTTRFLYGRL

My Ph is 8.1 & my is Ammonia 0
I have been doing water changes every second day. I've been using seachem prime.

I also have a refractometer so I know for sure my salinity is at the right level. I've done hypo previously on 2 occasions with much success. But I've never had this problem before.

I checked on him this morning and he seems ok. Still scratching alot. I'm just really worried that he may have something else wrong with him.

reg828

03/08/2006, 03:41 PM

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 04:12 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6909873#post6909873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BTTRFLYGRL
Where is this documented?

I stated IME as in In my experience. If it was documented, there would be no market for Ich products. Again, to each their own. I know I've never lost a fish to Ich, nor have I ever suffered those outbreaks everyone speaks of, even when I had my 100G tank. But even on another thread, it states 82% of the fish examined showed immunity. But hey, if you guys like doing the work bringing the fish into hypo salinity, then adding .01-.02 per day back to regular salinty, then hats off to ya...:)

zens

03/08/2006, 05:02 PM

laziness is #1 killer of fishes.

Dawn II

03/08/2006, 05:57 PM

This should be an exchange of ideas- not one of name-calling

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 07:17 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6911513#post6911513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zens
laziness is #1 killer of fishes.

It's ironic how you'd say that considering I've never lost a fish to Ich. Otherwise I'd be jumping on the hyposalinity boat too. Maybe too lazy to read clearly?

BTW..maybe I should add this, immunity is boosted by adding 1 drop of Lugol's per 20 gallons of water per week, and feeding orange slices every other day. How many knew your marine fish would eat oranges? :lol:

BTTRFLYGRL

03/08/2006, 08:18 PM

Funny, Terryb and Leebca [our expert members] never mentioned any of that:rolleyes:

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 09:19 PM

Sometimes you gotta think outside the box..:) Either way, you're welcome to try, but they do. My Midas Blenny eats grapefruit too.

Angela Short

03/08/2006, 11:35 PM

I wouldn't think items not naturally found in the ocean would be a good idea as a diet for a marine fish. Just my opinion....

XeniaMania, I also feel you are a tad irresponsible in giving the "do nothing I have and it works for me advise" for the natural immunity argument you are on lately. Many uneducated readers may take your "undocumented" advise as proven and loose many fish as a result. Just because one person "happens" to have had a easy time with ick as you have can in no way dispute the millions of hours of "documented" reaserch and millions of dollars spent learning the life cycle of this nasty bug. All which basically come up with the same 2 treatments, hyposalinity or copper. Not picking an argument just saying you should be a little more conciderate of the many people who may have fish die as a result of doing nothing. And let the guys who have the means with the proper equipment and testing facilities to document there findings to "think out of the box" when it comes to figuring out new methods of treating fish diseases. But as previously stated I am a individual and have a opinion :).

mis20t, I think you are doing the right thing by your fish and are wise to seek advise when in doubt. I would give it a few days to see if the scratching worsens but hopefully it will subside. Eating and breathing normal are great signs it is just ick and nothing worse. Maybe have a good anibiotic on hand incase the fish shows signs of a bacterial infection from all the broken skin from scratching.... Good luck.

Angela Short

03/08/2006, 11:37 PM

A slime coat additive wouldn't hurt either :)

XeniaMania

03/08/2006, 11:47 PM

I will admit perhapse I came on to this thread improperly. I am not advocating a do nothing approach, but I also shouldn't have just started off how I did and I should apologize for that. I have later on stated that my methodogy does involve adding Iodine to the water, and feeding Vitamin C to the fish. Some of us just have a different approach and view to things. Again, if I came off wrong to many of you, I apologize, but just wanted to show that there are other ways.

Dawn II

03/09/2006, 05:45 AM

IIs Lugols safe to add??

Brad Black

03/11/2006, 10:43 PM

I am with xennia on this one- the point of this whole forum is to gather multpile opinions and do research to come up with a solution that will work for you, and your pocketbook. I think people should be able to post without the fear of being ridculed constantly if you don't agree with the general consensus, and I think trying different things is how all of us arrived at many of the solutions that we currently have. I am not saying xenia is right, but has a right to post his opinions, right or different without being ridiculed.
Anyway my question-I currently have 2 tangs (powder and chevron) in a 29g QT for ich tx by hypo. Tehy were doing fine until today, now they are both on the bottom breathing very rapidly (bad). I fear that I will lose them both. I have been battling with both ammonia and PH (PH is about 8.0 and ammonia was .8). I have been doing daily W/C's (20-50%) and using carbon (tank is cycled) to help with ammonia. They both have tissue sloughing and look terrible. I have been trying to add buffer everyday for PH and using kent ammonia detox as well, nothing seems to be going well with hypo no matter how I try.
I am getting desperate at this point and looking for any more ideas-can I use a product like proper PH to raise PH or will that do more harm than good? Any other ideas? Please help! Thanks much. I hope my opinions don't keep some from giving helpful advice.
BB

Dawn II

03/12/2006, 07:19 AM

I lost a tang doing hypo- I had alk swings. I would Put your tangs in a bucket with enough water and airstone- and do a total water change.

Dawn II

03/12/2006, 07:23 AM

Once again- is Lugols safe to add to the reef- and how much? As far as adding things not naturally found in the sea- like citrus- neither is garlic found in the sea, and this is widely used in tanks.

Brad Black

03/12/2006, 04:34 PM

too late-they are both goners (powder and chevron)-what a bummer! Luckily I didn't pay for the chevron, but is sad 'cause he was around for a couple a years. I have been at this it seems non-stop for the last week and and driving my poor wife nuts with all of this. Bad timing 'cause we also have a sick baby in the house to deal with at the same time-fortunately he is doing better...for those doing hypo, be careful, it can be a real challenge. I learned a lot from this episode. I will still treat the remaining fish with hypo but you can not underestimate the value of W/C's and water testing!
BB

Dawn II

03/12/2006, 05:10 PM

Sorry...

reg828

03/13/2006, 04:55 AM

if you do hypo you need i think bigger thank at least 29 gallons, so that way water parameters do not change fast and need to have good biological filter going for a while. the reason fish dies or stressed out when transferred to qt tank, is because qt tank just got set up and its gonna go into cycle and fish will become stress and die. because of this i came up an idea of permanent qt tank that is always running with some fish in there and if i am going to transfer sick fish from main tank, it would be easier for me and the fish...

Dawn II

03/13/2006, 07:14 AM

What do you do with the fish in the QT when you add the sick ones for treatment? I've always heard a 20 gal. is sufficient for QT unless you have something really big.

Brad Black

03/13/2006, 03:23 PM

I had mine in a 29g QT and the levels were still all over the place. I fially gave up and put the fish back into the diplay (all are easy to catch) with ich still on them. I will start over with the QT and then in after the QT cycles will replace them back into QT, but this time I will NOT use hypo, it was too dificult to maintain correct water params for me, I will try copper this time. I think that part of my problem was that I had a major emergency with ich and probably rushed the fish into QT before the tank had completely cycled (possibly). I got my QT set up from the local newspaper with hood, lights and filter for $50-cheap for a 29g I think (with all the fixins). What a major bummer losing all those fish, actuaLLY A COMPLETE NIGHTMARE. I have never spent so much time with W/C's, testing and so on and worry since I started in this hobby than when trying hypo. I think I would have been better off leaving them all in the display and losing only a few than what happened. I am not saynig don't QT, but be very careful with water quality if you do!

Dawn II

03/13/2006, 03:29 PM

I know exactly what you mean by time spent and night mare- been there. Once agian, sorry. Loses are so tough- especially when one tries so hard.

BTTRFLYGRL

03/13/2006, 06:13 PM

Sorry for your lose Brad..I understand your frustration
You mention the fishs skin 'Slothing' off..I do wonder if you had another issue besides ich. That does not seem typical.

Hypo is alot of work, but copper is too. With copper you have more problems with ammonia spikes and keeping copper at levels where it actually works...too little doesn't work-to much can kill your fish
I have done both, I find Hypo to be the easiest of the two by far..

Brad Black

03/13/2006, 08:51 PM

If copper is even harder then I am really bummed! The only good news is that I now only have 3 Chromis left to treat. If you can call that good news! Kim- what aspects of copper do you find the most difficult? My biggest probles were ammonia and PH/ALK, are these difficult with copper also? After I re set the QT I will be trying again. I hate to imagine going thru hypo again.
Bye the way, I really aprreciate the kind words, this has been tough for not only me, but my kids also! Sometimes it seems on this site so many are so fast to critisize and that does nothing but frustrate the desperate hobbiest even more, so that makes the kind words even better.
Also, kim, I think the sloughing was possibly due to secondary oportunistic infections and poor circulation in the end (lots of fin rot and so on also). Who knows maybe even Lat line. Hard to tell when so many problems are happening at once...
Thanks again,
BB

emperior911

03/13/2006, 10:14 PM

fish can become immune to ich

emperior911

03/14/2006, 03:15 AM

I used to manage a local fish store. I had first dibs on every shipment at wholesale prices... i used to try a fish out.. if i didn't like it or had issues with agression, i would take it back to the store and resale it. i've had yellow tang, purple tang, sailfin tang, powder blue tang, blue tang, naso tang, scopas tang, niger trigger, picasso trigger, crosshatch trigger, bursa trigger, 2 emperor angel, blueline angel, mejestic angel, queen angel, banna wrasse, red coris wrasse, lunare wrasse, coral hind grouper, copperband butterfly.. scott's fairy wrasse, dogface puffer, 2 golden puffers, s&s puffer, tobies, 4 different lions, zebra moray, 3 snowflakes, goldentail eel, peppered moray, purple firefish, royal gramma, 5 different pairs of clown ETC i can actually go on for days but you get the picture. see the problem was i would go reef, then agressive, back to reef and so on. I Believe in natural immunity. 90 percent of fish i have encountered have developed imunity to ich. anytime i would add a new fish, the new fish would get ich... no other fish in the tank would get ich. i have only lost maybe 5% of the fish over the years...

i'm not saying that you shouldn't quarantine your fish... but for example i wouldn't pull all your fish out for a mild outbreak. it make make it worse