Can H&S fabricate a custom skimmer?

[Maximus]

Well, I've had a Euroreef 8-1 for over a year now and it has served me well. So why do I feel the need to upgrade? No clue! Hehe, anyways, I have one major problem to deal with, the height of my stand. The stand is only 23" tall on the inside. I definitely want a skimmer that can fit inside my sump, preferably a recirculating design. Is this a possibility? I definitely want an H&S that is at least 8" in diameter as I have plenty of width to work with as my sump (skimmer compartment) is 18"x17". Please feel free to offer any suggestions. Thanks!

[Thomas Geisel]

i had the same problem, and got a 200-1260 a bit shorter( about 1,5 ")

[Fliger]

I had the 200-1260 made several inches shorter, it will be 25.5" max. It should be here in a couple weeks. I'll post pix and LYK if the pump overpowers the body. You could probably get the A150 cut to 23" tall with no problem. You could also get an in-sump model with a lot of power - like a 1x1260 or 2x2001 - its not a re-circ but when you're overskimming it probably doesn't really matter much.

[Maximus]

Thanks for the input guys. Did you happen to receive your Elos tank yet, Fliger?

[DeltecRules]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6912083#post6912083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
I had the 200-1260 made several inches shorter, it will be 25.5" max. It should be here in a couple weeks. I'll post pix and LYK if the pump overpowers the body. You could probably get the A150 cut to 23" tall with no problem. You could also get an in-sump model with a lot of power - like a 1x1260 or 2x2001 - its not a re-circ but when you're overskimming it probably doesn't really matter much.

Fliger how much extra is it to have the skimmer cut shorter, thinking about cutting the height from 26 inches to 23 1/2, you think that might be too low fo the A150-2001?

Scott

[FinsReef]

Maximus,
I feel that cutting the A200 down that small will cause some mircrobubble problems and you would have to have the pump dialed back to where it would not do much better than an A150, but I have submitted your size to H&S Germany to see their opinion on it.

With your height restriction, your better bet would be to go with the 200-3x2001 and have it cut down 1". That will give you more performance with the same price as the A200-1260. The extra pump will more than make up the difference of not having the recirc feature. Plus it will pull between 2 to 3 times the air as your old Euro-Reef.

But I will submit your question and hopefully have you a response from Germany tomorrow.

Scott,
Unless you have a height issue, there is no advantage to have the skimmer body cut down. That is the advantage of the internal skimmers, they are a great performer in a smaller package. Unless you are at the top capacity of a skimmer, then you will not notice any skimmate difference between a internal or Recirc skimmer. The main thing with a External skimmer is that you can gravity feed it, and has more adjustability.

[Maximus]

Sounds good Brian. I will wait to see what H&S Germany says. Thanks.

[Fliger]

Maximus, I'm hoping for early April for delivery. I'm meeting the distributor in LA to pick it up and drive it back. You're welcome to meet us and check it out!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6913281#post6913281 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DeltecRules
Fliger how much extra is it to have the skimmer cut shorter, thinking about cutting the height from 26 inches to 23 1/2, you think that might be too low fo the A150-2001?

Scott

LOL, I'd better get a price, I still have no idea. I think it was 10% or 15%. Check with finsreef. I do agree with Brian, cutting it down obviously won't make it skim any better. It'll reduce the water in the skimmer that is constantly moving around. It might look better in pix. I'm sure if H&S could save the money on the acrylic, they would since acrylic ain't cheap, but it will cut out microbubbles. BTW I picked up that MCE600 today, can't wait to set her up!

[UCanDoIt]

Can the pump be lowered on the A150? When the air valve is close down slightly, no bubbles ever drop down beyond the top ring. It seems like a waste of the cylinder space when only the top 9" is used and the entire area between the top ring down to about 3" from the bottom isn't used. If the pump can be lowered, at least a few more inches of the cylinder will be used in foam production and still allow the foaming to be high enough not to return any micro-bubbles back into the sump. There certainly plenty of room to work with on the lower portion of the cylinder.

[Maximus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6914214#post6914214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by UCanDoIt
Can the pump be lowered on the A150? When the air valve is close down slightly, no bubbles ever drop down beyond the top ring. It seems like a waste of the cylinder space when only the top 9" is used and the entire area between the top ring down to about 3" from the bottom isn't used. If the pump can be lowered, at least a few more inches of the cylinder will be used in foam production and still allow the foaming to be high enough not to return any micro-bubbles back into the sump. There certainly plenty of room to work with on the lower portion of the cylinder.

This is the exact problem I have with the Euroreef 8-1. The bottom 1/3 of the cylinder is not being used. I dont understand why skimmer manufacturers do not utilize the entire length of the acrylic tubing. It doesn't make sense to me.

[FinsReef]

The pump can be lowered, but the lower the pump, the more backpressure you are putting on the pump. The more backpressure, the lower the airflow. I can also simply add elbows to the output of the pump and give you the illusion of a full skimmer body, but the bubble concentration will be less per area, and not extract as much protein. A stronger feed rate will also increase the look of fullness, but it will not allow the contact time.
Here is a picture of an A150 running ~ 250 gph thru the skimmer, notice that the bubble level goes down further, but the skimmate producton does not increase.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/finsreef/A150shoptest.jpg

[UCanDoIt]

can the pump be lowered on the A150 and used an eheim 1260 needlewheel pump instead? since we discussing custom modifications in this thread, can the cylinder be increased to 29" and the pump lowered and subsituted with an eheim 1260? just thinking out loud.

[FinsReef]

Maximus,
With your Euro-Reef, the differenece is that is only pulling ~ 400 tp 450lph of air, and the concentration is not there, where as the H&S 200 pulls in ~ 900lph or air. Also the air to water ratio is important especially on the internal models.
Take for example the Eheim 1260 pulls in ~900lph of air with a list of 2500lph or water. Because of the needlewheel it pulls less. That gives you a ~1to 1.5 ratio of air to water.
Where as other pumps can acheive the same air amount from a pump, they generally have a 1 to 2.5 or more ratio, that drastically cuts down on the contact time on on Internal skimmer.
Here is a picture of the 200-1260, notice the denisty of the air, and the fullness in relation to the output tube.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/finsreef/DSC00116.jpg

[FinsReef]

The Eheim is too strong of a pump in to run on the 150 diamater skimmer. Even with a taller skimmer, and lowering the pump, it is going to be more turbulent, and the excess crashing of bubbles will actually cause a decrease in skimmer performance.

[UCanDoIt]

I hear you there, thanks Brian.

[FinsReef]

Of course H&S will build it for you, but I could not guarantee the performance and I feel that the end user would be out the money and a skimmer that does not produce what it should. H&S has been building there skimmers for over 18 years, there is a theory behind their design, and it has withstood the test of time, that is not saying that it could never be improved, just that it is more than air-intake or fullness of the skimmer body.
It takes several factors to make a quality skimmer, by changing a few, that could mess up the synergy of the skimmer.
Personally unless you have a height issue then you will get the best, consistant performance performance out of a standard skimmer.

[Maximus]

Fliger,
If I am in the area at the time your tank comes in, I would love to check it out! I appreciate the invite.

[Fliger]

I agree with the fact that lowering the bubbles makes no difference. On the 2x1260 it wasn't an issue because that entire body was full, but on the 3x1260, and the Deltec ap702, I played with cutting back air to make the skimmer look fuller - but it didn't make a difference in skimmate quality. When you cut back the air, the pump pulls in more water so it kicks the bubbles around more. So you get - less air, more turbulence - better pictures. Some people say they think they get better skimmate, I haven't found it to be the case. One nice thing about having the taller body is you get that option. You can fill the body with bubbles if you choose to do it that way, but you're cutting back air intake. Here is another pic of an A150 that cuts back air and I'm guessing runs more water thru it. It's i2ik's - never asked him if he gets better skimmate this way

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5876/bucket3qz.jpg

Maximus, I will definitely let you know. I plan to meet Ali (project reef) out there as well. I would also love to check out your tank, I will be on the West Side from Santa Monica to Manhattan Beach the entire time I'm there.

[Maximus]

Fliger,
I live about 300 miles from LA, so that may be a problem:) You are more than welcomed to stop by anytime if you are in the area. Ever visit the Monterey Bay Area? I do travel to LA every now and then so I may be able to set something up.

[Fliger]

We go to M/CV every year! We stay at CV Ranch. We missed last year but my wife won't let me miss this year. ;-) We moved to Arizona from SF, from Marina/Cow Hollow. I will definitely visit you this year, just to see that fish. ;-)

[Maximus]

Any updates yet, Brian? I am now considering the 200-1260. Can this insump skimmer be cut down to around 21-22" max height? I see that the standard height on this skimmer is 23.5" tall. I would only need to shave 1.5-2.5" off of it. Can a drain be installed on the collection cup? I would love to run the skimmer wet and have the skimmate dumped into a large jug.

Fliger,
Come on down! The fish is waiting for you!:D

[Maximus]

Bump for an answer.

[UCanDoIt]

Woe, that sounds like a lot to trim off a skimmer that is already really short. Maybe the new 10" diamete cylinder is the way to go when that becomes available.

[Maximus]

Any idea when the 10" diameter is coming out?

[imbuggin]

I had the same problem with the stand on my 300 gallon. My solution was this:

(wife wasn't happy)
Since I ran out of room under my tank and did not have the height I needed. I drilled through the wall into my kitchen. Well we used to have this large cabinet that was a lazy susan. It now is the happy home to my regular 29.5-30 inch size 2x1260 external H&S skimmer. I also keep my co2 tank, dosing pumps and chemicals in there. My calcium reactor is now under the kitchen sink. I also had to cut out the bottom of the cabinet to gain a few inches for the skimmer. All I can tell you is the skimmer rocks and brian was great!

[FinsReef]

Maximus,
On the 200-1260, we could cut off about 1 to 1.5" off of the collection cup, this should work with no problem. I feel that anything over 1.5" would be too much. I am getting a A250 prototype in about 2 to 3 weeks to start testing, but I will need to run for about 3 weeks to give it a paces and make sure it is worth making a production run. I have originally slated the A250 to be a 2 pump model, as I feel that a single eheim would not perform good on a 10" chamber.
What is the max overall height you can go with, and the size fo tank you are putting the skimmer on?

A model 200-1260 at a total height of 22" is doable and should perform as good as the original at wetskimming, but may not be able to produce as dry a skimmmate as the standard model.


ImBuggin,
I would love to see some pictures of your install.

[Maximus]

My max height is 22". The inside dimensions of my stand (height) is 23". I would need a skimmer no taller than 22" so I could empty the collection cup. My tank is 150g with a 20 gallon sump.

[FinsReef]

How much room do you have from the top of your sump to the bottom of your tank? Just need to make sure there is enough room to remove the collection cup.

[Maximus]

I have 8.75" of room from the top of my sump to the bottom of the tank.

[FinsReef]

Your best bet would still be a custom 200-1260 with 1.5" cut off the collection cup. It would come in at 22" tall and still perform great for you. A recirculating skimmer would not be a good option at that height. The collection cup would have enough room to clear the sump.

[Maximus]

Thanks Brian. I need to think about it for awhile. Not sure if I will go with internal or external. I would also like to see the 10" model as well.