Need Advice on lighting!!!

[Mikeyjer]

Ok here's the deal, we went all out tonight really crazy and bought a new 90 gallon AGA bowfront at the critters. We bought the new sump/fuge system for it with mag return 700GPH. It has all the plumbing with it. We got the sump/fuge plus the mag home and getting the tank delivered Wednesday. I need new lighting for this tank, I think I will need 2-250w DE HQI MH and I think we'll try 20k this time. It's got those plastic canopy things and Ken suggested not to put in VHO's and get 2-250w HQI 20k's instead. I need some input and advice on how to setup this new system. Especially the lighting part!!! Thanks for any input!

[gflat65]

I'm personally a fan of MH and VHO. If you can do both, I would. Just my preference, though. You don't get color like VHO color from anything else. The 250 DE's might be overkill depending on what you plan on keeping. They sunburn my acros (not all of them, but several of them) and most of my LPS don't like them a whole lot. Zoas seem to love them, though. I'm happy with 250DE's and VHO's, but may change bulbs from AB 10K's to another 10K when replacement time comes. Hope that helps...

[Mikeyjer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7001952#post7001952 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gflat65
I'm personally a fan of MH and VHO. If you can do both, I would. Just my preference, though. You don't get color like VHO color from anything else. The 250 DE's might be overkill depending on what you plan on keeping. They sunburn my acros (not all of them, but several of them) and most of my LPS don't like them a whole lot. Zoas seem to love them, though. I'm happy with 250DE's and VHO's, but may change bulbs from AB 10K's to another 10K when replacement time comes. Hope that helps...

I would like to do VHO in there too if I can with that plastic canopy. I will need some help. I'm happy I got the tank, but at the sametime it's nervewracking!!! I will need someone to come over and take a look at it and tell me what needs to be done. The new tank will be here by Wednesday and I am off all day Thursday. I need major help!!!!

[Angela Short]

I was planning on selling my 80 bowfront RR soon hopefully for a BIGGER tank! Could have made you a great deal on 10 gallons smaller. I just hate to loose the bowfront look but was wanting a 180+ in the den and the money for a bowfront that big is crazy!

I would be carefull how much MH you put over 90 gallons unless you are planning a chiller. But my 175's are not hardley deep penetrating enouph to keep a lot happy on my sand bed :(.

[Mikeyjer]

I will set it up to test for temperature this summer when it gets hot. I keep my house at a pretty cool temp. There's a running ceiling fan at all times, it's in my living room with high ceilings. If it was sitting in my bedroom, I would be afraid of the heat for sure. We'll see what happens....:)

[Mikeyjer]

Here's the pictures of the new tank & sump!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/Mikeyjer/90gOceanicBowfront.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/Mikeyjer/SumpFugeModel2.jpg

By the way Angela, what kind of lights did you put in your bowfront?? How did you manage to fit them in? Let me know, thanks!!

[boofer]

My preference is a bluer bulb you dont have to supplement. Basically, because Im cheap and dont want to pay for the extra bulbs each year:D PC's made me realize just how quick lots of bulbs cost to replace. Plus less heat, wires, ballasts etc. If it were me Id put either 2 250SE or 2 250 DE 14k or 20k for that tank and thats it. I am running a 400 20k XM and a 14k Phoenix 250DE now, but Im not sure how Ill like the 20k yet. It looks promising, but theres alot more purple in the light than the 14k. 14k is a nice white with a hint of blue like the halide/vho mix. 20k is just as blue (almost) with more purple in the spectrum. Just my thoughts though, its always a personal preference:)

[Angela Short]

I have 2 175's centered over either side of the brace bar and 1 65 pc in the bow area up front and 2 65 watt pc's end to end in the very back of the tank canopy. It is a very tight fit but doable in a 4 foot bow. What are the dimentions to get the extra 10 gallons I wonder? A little taller or wider or deeper?

My top is wood 1x3 slats so its very open to the air and I just flush mounted everything to the top. Oh, and I have 2 directional fans mounted in there from target also!

"My" tank (everyones is different depending) runs about 82-83 if my canopy fans and sump fan is not running with the lights (10 hrs MH) and will drop no lower than 78 when I forget to plug in the fan at our normal 72 degree home temp. The fans keep it at 79 day and the heater keeps it there at night. But I also have 4 PH's and a mag 9.5 and a dolphine 800 all submerged giving heat to concider. The 2 big pumps add a ton of heat to the sump cause when I kill it to feed the water gets crazy warm just sitting idle with the pumps off in the sump so if you can externally plumb all your circulation you can get away with more light. Hope this sheds some light on my set up ;)

[Mikeyjer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7019303#post7019303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boofer
My preference is a bluer bulb you dont have to supplement. Basically, because Im cheap and dont want to pay for the extra bulbs each year:D PC's made me realize just how quick lots of bulbs cost to replace. Plus less heat, wires, ballasts etc. If it were me Id put either 2 250SE or 2 250 DE 14k or 20k for that tank and thats it. I am running a 400 20k XM and a 14k Phoenix 250DE now, but Im not sure how Ill like the 20k yet. It looks promising, but theres alot more purple in the light than the 14k. 14k is a nice white with a hint of blue like the halide/vho mix. 20k is just as blue (almost) with more purple in the spectrum. Just my thoughts though, its always a personal preference:)

That's exactly what "Ken" at the critter suggested. Running 2-250w DE 20k. I would like to see how that 20k looks in someone's tank. I'm running 175w SE 14k right now in my reef tank. How long do you run those MH's per day?? Thanks!

[Mikeyjer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7019796#post7019796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angela Short
I have 2 175's centered over either side of the brace bar and 1 65 pc in the bow area up front and 2 65 watt pc's end to end in the very back of the tank canopy. It is a very tight fit but doable in a 4 foot bow. What are the dimentions to get the extra 10 gallons I wonder? A little taller or wider or deeper?

My top is wood 1x3 slats so its very open to the air and I just flush mounted everything to the top. Oh, and I have 2 directional fans mounted in there from target also!

"My" tank (everyones is different depending) runs about 82-83 if my canopy fans and sump fan is not running with the lights (10 hrs MH) and will drop no lower than 78 when I forget to plug in the fan at our normal 72 degree home temp. The fans keep it at 79 day and the heater keeps it there at night. But I also have 4 PH's and a mag 9.5 and a dolphine 800 all submerged giving heat to concider. The 2 big pumps add a ton of heat to the sump cause when I kill it to feed the water gets crazy warm just sitting idle with the pumps off in the sump so if you can externally plumb all your circulation you can get away with more light. Hope this sheds some light on my set up ;)

I have also thought about the front bow part by running either small PC or VHO in that area. Very good input though! I think I'll plumb the mag on the outside of the tank so it won't create any heat issues within the tank.

[Angela Short]

You just loose the dawn and dusk look but cheaper on the power and bulb replacement bill.

[Angela Short]

Here is my MH's and fans installed before the pc's went in. I got 3 65 watt pc ballasts and bulbs used for $50 once and another 2 sets recently for $40. They are cheap used and can give the dawn dusk look.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/shortcory/100_0136.jpg

I barley had room to squeeze the pc's in as you can see.

[Mikeyjer]

Angela,

The problem is that I have plastic canopy. I think I'll place an wood beam all the way across the top of the inside, then screw in both sides to either side of the canopy, then attach the MH's to the beam. Then I'll drill holes on both sides of the canopy for PC fans, one side runs in, one side runs out. How does that sound?

[boofer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7019908#post7019908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angela Short
You just loose the dawn and dusk look.

Not if you use LED's ;)

Mikeyjer- Im only running it 4 hours now...it will be running 6-8 hours depending on how everything reacts. I ran the 250DE 14k on a 29 8 hours a day.
BTW, the Mag will produce heat in the tank regardless if you have it plumbed internal or external. They just run hot.

[Mikeyjer]

boofer,

I'll use the LEDS for moon lights for sure. Here's a new idea after looking at how much the wooden canopy would cost me today, it cost a fortune. I'm thinking about just keeping this canopy and do a DIY project. I'm thinking about screwing from the outside of the plastic inwards onto a wood panel and built it from the inside of it so all the wood would cover up all the plastic parts. Before covering everything up, I would use aluminum foil over the plastic before applying the wood on top of it. Now I have a wood frame on the inside, then do a retrofit lighting kit to mount to the new frame within. I think that should solve this problem. The new retrofit kit would be 2-250w HQI, not sure on the k's yet, most likely I'll go with 14k's again. Then 2-110w VHO Super Actinics, then do the moon lights. Let me know what you think of this!

[boofer]

There is not a retro kit for DE that I know of. You can buy the parts, but its easier to buy the DE pendants. SE might be easier (cheaper) with what your wanting to do. Im not sure about your canopy idea either. How tall is this canopy? Does it have fans built in already? I take that its a closed top....right?
And Im not the only one needing to answer these ?'s...That would put all the blame on me if something goes wrong:D

[gflat65]

It's a good thing you aren't in the meetings anymore, because we blame you for everything, anyway:D.

As for finding the cheapest route for DE's, check out hellolights. I bought a dual 250 HQI ballast from someone in the sellers forum and needed pendants. Hellolights had pendants for under $100. When I added bulbs (AB's) with the order, I got them for about 33% less than the listed price. Can't guarantee they'll always do that, but worked for me.

[boofer]

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7033891#post7033891 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gflat65
[B]It's a good thing you aren't in the meetings anymore, because we blame you for everything, anyway:D.

Figures, Someones gotta take the blame:D

[Mikeyjer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7033327#post7033327 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boofer
There is not a retro kit for DE that I know of. You can buy the parts, but its easier to buy the DE pendants. SE might be easier (cheaper) with what your wanting to do. Im not sure about your canopy idea either. How tall is this canopy? Does it have fans built in already? I take that its a closed top....right?
And Im not the only one needing to answer these ?'s...That would put all the blame on me if something goes wrong:D

The dimension of the canopy is 49x19x9.5
I can take the top two doors off, it has two large top doors that opens the top of the tank all the way with a center brace. So if I go with 2-250w DE Pendants 20k, will that still melt the plastic around it? If I do the pendants, I can't do the supplement lighting and have to run the pendants for 10hrs right? I will put in fans through the back to run inwards or I can drill holes on both ends of the canopy and run fans in and out. I wonder if my corals would like the light idea?? They're running on 2-175w SE MH 14k and 2-110w VHO Actinics.