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andyh3
04/21/2002, 11:46 AM
Jon

Your article 'Working with Acrylic' was very helpful. I recently removed my bottom piece of tempered glass on my tank to replace it with acrylic so that I can drill holes. I posted some messages regarding this and received some negative feedback. Most of the responses concluded that I will not get a 'good' bond between the acrylic to glass. I found it very hard to believe that (in this day and age) we can not manufacture something that will allow for this.

In your article, you mentioned that Oceanic uses GE Contractors Silicone SCS 1200 to bond acrylic to glass. If this is real and I imagine that they have no problems, then it can be done. Also, is this the only reliable/proven product out there?

I appreciate your response. Thanks!

Snailman
04/21/2002, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by andyh3

In your article, you mentioned that Oceanic uses GE Contractors Silicone SCS 1200 to bond acrylic to glass. If this is real and I imagine that they have no problems, then it can be done. Also, is this the only reliable/proven product out there?

It is real. I wrote an email to them asking how they did it because there was a thread on the subject. Their response was what I wrote. I don't know if there are other products out there but the GE SCS 1200 is so cheap and easy to get why try anything else. Remember both surfaces have to be very very clean.

andyh3
04/25/2002, 05:37 PM
Jon,

I spoke with a GE technical representative regarding the adhesive properties of GE Silicone SCS 1200, especially for bonding acrylic to glass. It is not recommend by GE even though they said that it probably can be done. They mentioned another product (Silpruf SCS 2000) that will give a better seal, but it is not suitable for underwater purposes due to the fact that it can leach chemicals.

Furthermore, I emailed Oceanic Systems, Inc. customer service in response to this issue and recieved this message as follows:

"We do not use silicone (SCS 1200) alone to bond the acrylic to glass. The process we use is proprietary, and we do not share that information. Sorry for the inconvenience." - Shawn Bender
Oceanic Systems, Inc.

I am curious to know how you obtained such information and the validity of it. Also, if they are using additional bonding agents, information, such as chemical properties, durability, and limiting factors, should be the consumers' right to know, especially when dealing with such delicate systems.

Again, I appreciate you response - Thanks!

Andy

andyh3
04/28/2002, 10:06 AM
Again, - I appreciate your response

Snailman
04/28/2002, 10:37 AM
Here are the emails. HTH


From: "Customer Service" <[email protected]>
To: Jon Garner
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: Corner box ?

We used GE Contractors Grade Silicone. When I inquired about the silicone, I was told we changed to an even better silicone. Our parent company All-Glass sells it in large tubes. The item number is 65010. Your aquatics retailer can order it for you. This silicone is made especially for aquariums.

Thank you,

Shawn Bender



-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Garner
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 2:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Corner box ?


Thank you so much for getting back to me. I went to GE's web site and GE makes many different Silicone sealants. Would you mind telling me which one you use?
Thanks,
Jon Garner

----- Original Message -----
From: "Customer Service" <[email protected]>
To: Jon Garner
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Corner box ?


Thank you for the e-mail. We use GE silicone to bond acrylic to
glass. The key to getting a good bond is a clean surface. Even a finger print can cause the silicone not to bond to the surface. The silicone needs 48 hours to dry completely. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me directly at (800)554-6229 ext. 728.

Thank you,

Shawn Bender
Customer Service

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Garner
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 7:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Corner box ?

Hi,
We have an Oceanic RR 200 and we love it. We have had it several years and it is the nicest tank we have ever owned and over the years we have tried them all. My question is this, how do you glue the acrylic corner boxes in the glass tank so they don't leak. I have tried gluing an acrylic end in a glass tank for a sump with aquarium silicone and after a couple of days it started leaking like a sieve. The joint between the glass and the acrylic had failed. The reason I am asking is because I want to put some acrylic dividers in a glass tank for a refugia and don't want the same problem.
Thanks,
Jon Garner

andyh3
04/28/2002, 06:26 PM
Thanks!

Tagamet
04/28/2002, 07:48 PM
OK, now I THOUROUGHLY confused (whicn is never difficult). CAN glass be reliably bonded to galss and if so what is the final verdict as to the product to use???
TIA
Larry

Snailman
04/28/2002, 07:57 PM
For glass to glass use the aquarium silicone that www.thatpetplace.com sells by the squeeze tube or the caulking gun size cartridge.

scot
04/29/2002, 12:53 AM
What else do you think Oceanic is doing when siliconing acrylic to glass? I'm thinking their preping it with something like acetone.

Snailman
04/29/2002, 05:33 AM
I ma sure they are cleaning the glass with something like alcohol and they may be giving the edge of the acrylic a wipe with methelene chloride to soften it a bit so the silicone can get a better grip. It is not like this piece of information would break them and I think it was pretty petty of them not to tell us.

Tagamet
04/29/2002, 07:36 AM
Thanks, Snailman. As always, you're a font of information.
Larry

andyh3
04/29/2002, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Snailman
It is not like this piece of information would break them and I think it was pretty petty of them not to tell us.


I couldn't agree more!

scot
05/04/2002, 12:52 AM
Check out my post Gluing acrylic to glass, think I figured it out (http://www.reefcentral.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=84206). This seems to be working for me. Try it on some scrap, I thik you'll be impressed, I was amazed.

scot
05/10/2002, 02:37 AM
Methyl Ethyl Keytone might be the answer. When I was a kid delivering paint for my dad, we took many a 55gal drums to a place that put graphics on Lexan. My dad and the chemist that he works with figured out cleaning the Lexan first with MEK made the paint stick.

I tried it tonight, we'll know in a couple of days if it works.

By the way, super glue doesn't work after it's been in water for a few days. It's still not too bad, but I can break the bond easier than before.

Snailman
05/10/2002, 05:40 AM
Just remember DON"T HANDLE MEK WITH YOUR BARE HANDS and work in a WELL ventalated area, bad stuff. I have worked with it and have a bottle of it too. THe MSDS will make your hair stand up. :)

scot
05/11/2002, 12:46 AM
It works. Silicone is stuck to the plex like it was glass. Made the mistake of cleaning the glass with MEK, silicone came right off. Alcohol is best for the glass.

Snailman,
I've grown up around all kinds of paint, started making spray cans @ 7. I have a somewhat cavalier attitude towards all that kind of stuff. That's probably why I had Shingles in my late 20s and dermatitis on my hands now. Moral of the story, take precautions.

Snailman
05/11/2002, 06:37 AM
The problem with MEK is not your hands it is your insides. It travels right through your skin and is very carsanagenic. We got a piece of equipment at work that had a high speed bar code printer in it that used MEK based ink so you had to clean it with MEK. They spent $2500 to convert it to alcohol based ink before it went into production because they did not MEK in the plant. It in not good to inhale the fumes either. We work with some nasty stuff doing DIY. We should take care. Read the fine print and the MSDS.