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View Full Version : Algae ID?? and Solution?


todd2000
03/29/2006, 11:16 AM
Hello, my tank has been up for about 3 months now, and I have this algae pretty much covering my rocks, it's not hair algae as far as I can tell, cause I have some of that too and it is much longer, this is like a bushy matt of algae, I was wondering if anyone knew exactally what is was, and what would be the one best creature Snails, hermits, or possibly a Blenny to help keep it in check, until I can get the necessary stuf, and check and lower my phosphates if necessary. I plan on getting a cleanup crew but am a little tight on cash at the moment so if there is one thing I can get that would help like a certain variety of snail, or crab I will get that first. Here are some pics:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f384/todd2000/fullalgea.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f384/todd2000/closealgea.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f384/todd2000/closealgea2.jpg

This is just a side question what kind of Macro algae is this, it came with my LR, but hsen't really spred, but it has grown it is more green then in this pic:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f384/todd2000/macro2.jpg

To answer the inevitable question, I started the tank with water from the AP Tap Water Filter at 0 TDS, and for the last month or so have been using Distilled, also 0 TDS, and only feed a little more then pinch a day, since I don't have many fish

Greg129
03/29/2006, 11:30 AM
I'm not an expert algae identifier, but it looks like hair algae. You don't think it has spread? lol. I see it growing on the glass and your equipment. You really should've have started with RO water just to be safe. Also, distilled water is not as good as RO water from my understanding. How is the flow in the tank? Do you have any powerheads for water movement?

sassyfishy
03/29/2006, 12:12 PM
'Tis not a lost cause. My tank looked pretty much like yours at the 3 month mark. It's now coming up on the six month mark, and I've got the hair algae problem almost completely licked. How did I do it?

1. Reduced photoperiod from 14 hours to 10 hours per day.
2. Reduced feeding from every day to every other day.
3. Manually removed hair algae. (scrubbed rocks with toothbrush)
4. Added a protein skimmer.
5. Added more astrae snails, scarlet hermits & emerald crabs.
6. Patience. New tanks often go through these algae blooms.

I'll let you in on a secret. I was using RO water (3-5 ppm TDS) from Walmart for the first four months. I switched to distilled (0 ppm TDS) and have seen a great improvement. (Don't know if that is coincidental and time related, or not). I'm of the firm opinion that distilled water is better than RO water (reverse osmosis without deionization) - although RO/DI (reverse osmosis with deonization) water is probably best overall.

Something else I believe? Patience is key. Some live rock can leach phosphates for several months. Keep blowing detritus off with a turkey baster, keep up the water changes, and scrub that hair algae off before it takes hold. In my experience, nothing will eat hair algae that's gotten that long. It needs to be manually removed. If you don't have a protein skimmer - get one.

If you are using carbon in your filter, be aware that some carbon can leach phosphates when exhaused. Be sure to change carbon often.

Oh - and a refugium filled with nutrient loving macroalgae helps too!

todd2000
03/29/2006, 12:23 PM
My photo period is only about 6-8 hours a day. The algae is not really that long though just kinda covering everything which is why I wasn't sure if it was hair? I have one Maxi-Jet 1200, I know I need more. I have taken the rock out 2 or 3 times and scrubbed it and it looks like that in a week. As for distilled water there is no way to get purer then distilled, so thats not an issue, I do however want to get an RO/DI soon since it is cheaper. I guess I really need to scrub the rocks good and add a clenup crew so they can keep it from getting to this point again. I will cut back to feeding every 2 days or so. I don't have a sump or anything so im just going to get the Larg AquaFuge HOB fuge, it's not much but anything helps. I mainly want to get it because I would like to help my pod population for a mandarin down the road a ways, but hey if it might hlp with the algae even better.

todd2000
03/29/2006, 12:26 PM
As for not spreading I was refering to the large algae that resembles leaves in the last pic :)

todd2000
03/29/2006, 02:02 PM
^

sassyfishy
03/29/2006, 02:05 PM
Have you checked out this link?

http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/guest/algaepage/algaepage.htm

todd2000
03/29/2006, 04:25 PM
Any other thoughts?

sshunter
03/29/2006, 04:33 PM
man that suxs try cutting your light cycle down some to 8 hrs and when you get some cash buy clean up crew also i dont no how big the tank is but get a foxface they love algae. good luck

sshunter
03/29/2006, 04:33 PM
what part of VA are you from?

todd2000
03/29/2006, 04:42 PM
my light cycle is already 8 hours or less, it's a 55, and I don't really want a foxface, and Im not sure it would fit anyway. Im from Danviile, well Im from NJ, just moved down here in Dec. living with my aunt.

Drewpy
03/29/2006, 05:06 PM
Bulbs are only three months old as well?
What are your nitrate and phosphate levels?
Identifying your problem will go long way in helping...

Attack phosphate with a chemical media... And nitrate with water changes...

Also scrub that algae stuff clean off with a tooth brush-- take you about half an hour or more... blow of rocks working top to bottom with a turkey baster...

then turn off powerheads and let the stuff settle.. Then remove with a siphon... doing a large water change at the same time...

The immediate satisfaction is that when the water clears it will look nice again...

continue with 5 gallon water changes everyday day or so matching salinity exactly (water should be well airated for PH)...

Repeat scrubbing, blasting, settleing, and water changing as necessary...

Also, is that a hang on filter in the picture? (i use to run a hang on filter but if the filter material is not changed often-- once a week or more-- i had algae problems start up)

a little elbow grease is all that is needed... you can reduce lighting more as well temporarily...

A refugium with macro algae will do wonders as well-- i would replace that hang on filter with a hang on refugium if you do not have a sump... You can still run carbon or phosban in the refugium in filter bag...
A cheap light fixture and light bulb in the 5000K to 6500K range.

Drewpy
03/29/2006, 05:16 PM
also if you can remove rocks to scrub them that is best... rinse in clean salt water before putting back...

From all i have read-- and from battling some algae problems my self-- this is the quickest method of combating algae problems...

As the tank matures it should help you out on its own... Keeping calcium levels and alkalinity levels up has increase coralline growth in my tank as well... Just be sure to add and suppliments slowly through out the day or week...

todd2000
03/29/2006, 05:26 PM
Thanks I guess I've got some scrubbing to do, well im selling my Yellow Watchman Goby, and Pistol shrimp on Sat and I'll probably have to take the tank appart to catch them anyway, so theres a good time to start. When you say "chemical media" what would you recommend, that I can run in a HOB filter, without buying a Reactor? Has anyone ever tried Phosbuster Pro, it seems like immediat gratification. Im not sure what my current Phosphate levels are( I dont have a test), but my Nitrates are about 15PPM.

todd2000
03/29/2006, 05:45 PM
and yes that is a HOB filter that I just can't bring my-self to remove. I think I may replace it with a smaller Aquaclear or something just for Carbon.

Greg129
03/29/2006, 07:27 PM
I'd invest in one or two more Maxijets. You'll need them down the road anyways if you are keeping coral.

omni2226
03/29/2006, 07:54 PM
Take it or leave it (my advice/opionion) but here it is.

STOP doing water changes for one month. 0, nada, no,nix and nein to water changes. Alga cant grow without iron and everytime you do a saltwater change you are adding/replacing iron.

If you are doing water changes to fight nitrates your fighting a losing battle in a war you will never win. Skimmer and a deep sandbed or refugium for that.

After one month do 10% a month till your system is roughly 6 to 8 months old then maybe go to biweekly 10%.(I do monthly 10%)

DO NOT reduce your photo period. Keep it at 10 to 12 hours (or whatever your regular schedule is/was). You want all the good things like macroalga and corraline (not to mention would you like to be kept in the dark? gimme light man<this is your fish talking>) to keep growing and it needs light. Stability is key.

Have you tested your tapwater? If its not loaded with nitrates and phosphates then why use ro/di? Use tapwater if its low in trates and phosphate.

Distilled or ro...meh I use tapwater. If its good enough to drink its good enough for aquariums. If my water was that bad I would move.

Small feedings two or three times a day are better than every other day. I doubt that this is a nutrient problem This thing goes in a cycle. First brown diatoms then cyano (red/green slime) then green hairy stuff everywhere.
Keep your calcium/alkalinty in the right ranges soon corraline will replace the green hairy.

Just my methodolgy on alga control.

todd2000
03/29/2006, 11:55 PM
wow omni that does against EVERYTHING I have read on this site or anywhere else for that matter. Interesting... Tap water you say, very interesting

omni2226
03/30/2006, 10:52 AM
Well I will expand a bit on this.

This is a new system that needs to "age". If you are not having amonia and or niTRITE spikes then doing large water changes often will actually do more harm than good.

Concerning niTRATES doing water changes to lower trates is battling the sympton, not the cause and you will never win.

Find the cause. There can be no trates without amonia/niTRITE first. Try adding a little more live rock or reducing the bioload but I wouldnt cut the feedings to every two days. One or two small feedings daily.
Add a refugium/sump with a deep sand bed if you dont want a deep sand bed in the main display if possible. If you cant then reducing the total bioload is the only long term sure fire solution to getting nitrate below 10ppm. (Outside of spending dollors for machines).
For the photoperiod the same thing applies as to water changes. Stability is the main numer one key factor. Making major changes to the enviroment is stressful to the entire organism that is the aquarium.
Keep in mind this is a mini ecosystem and any change affects every living thing in it.
Also keep in mind nature abhors a vacum. Lets say you managed to get rid of the green hairy. There is a "hole" now. What is going to take its place? If the system is in turmoil due to major water changes and the photoperiod is all out of wack there is a 99% chance that a nuisence alga is going to replace the green hairy.

If the system is stable there is a much greater chance of something good taking its place like macroalga or encrusting algae of some type )Hopefuly corraline).

Reverse Osmosis is great to remove things and make pure water..it removes everything good or bad including oxygen.
Side note here never never ever use ro water for a dip unless you areate it well first. Your fish will die with no oxygen in the water dip.

But see you have to keep in mind the Human desire/need to tinker with things. Therefore RO/DI units,calcium and phosphate reactors, light meters, pinpoint sensors, timers that emulate the phases of the moon for lighting, etc etc are MUST have technology.

What fun is it to just sit and enjoy an aquarium full of life if ya cant mess with it by employing enough gadgets to outfit a university science lab?

Just my ramblings and babble. Enjoy your animals.

todd2000
03/30/2006, 11:41 AM
Intersting opinion, im not sure I agree with some of it but, anyway as for my Nitrate problem, I think they are still left over from the initial cycle, because they never seem to go any higher then 15, I figure if I can remove them hopefully they should stay at 0. I only have 2 small fish in a 55 with 80+lb of live rock, so I don't think my bio-load is a problem, I will be adding a HOB fuge, because I don't have a sump, or any other way to add a fuge, I know HOB fuges are small but it can't hurt. Also I don't have a clean up crew yet so I do plan on adding one soon.

omni2226
03/30/2006, 12:03 PM
Sure thats what makes this hobby so much fun. Everyone does things in diffrent ways and most of them work.

Here is a picture of my tank that is "aging" now. April 5th will mark two months. The red slime (cyano) was covering all the substarte and in the last week has started to be replaced with some green stuff. Tapwater from the kitchen sink, Instant Ocean salt. Last water change was on feb 26th.
Lights are 10 dollor shop lights from walmart with daylight bulbs.

I am upgrading the lights to 4 x 65 watt Power compacts (should be here tomorrow via ups). No skimmer yet will be adding a Remora pro from aqua c soon.
Two Damsels, a Skunk Cleaner Shrimp and two turbo snails.
50 pounds of live rock and a 6 inch sandbed, 1/2 pound of carbon in the powerfilter, two 150gph powerheads.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/117998Slimeshot__2_.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/117998fullslime.jpg

omni2226
03/30/2006, 12:12 PM
Oh for whatever its worth here are parameters: 55 Gallon glass.
Specific Gravity : 1.26
Water temp 80-84 F
Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Calcium around 360 or so (cheapo test kit)
Alk around 3 ( I think, need a better test kit)
I dose B-ionic two part 10ml a day.
Food is a mash I make from freshfrozen seafood mix (squid,octipi,shrimp,clams and a clove of whole garlic blenderized)

tibbs2
03/30/2006, 12:44 PM
You need to reduce nutrients in your tank.

Perform more water changes.

Make sure you have a very good skimmer.

Get your pH up to around 8.5, 8.6. This will encourage corraline growth and make the environment more hostil towards the algae.

Create a refugium to outcompete the algae in your tank or throw some chaetomorpha in your sump if you have one and light it 24hrs a day.

Reduce fish feedings.

I used to not do water changes, but my cyano and the algae just grew more.

Lower your nutrients in the water and your algae problem will go away.

I would recommend setting your tank temp set to between 77 and 78 F and salinity set to 1.025.

For cleaning crew I'd get astrea snails, cerith snails and a few scarlet hermit crabs. Mexican Turbos are great too but they tend to knock things over.

omni2226
03/30/2006, 01:04 PM
I have been looking at those hang on refuges myself. This tank is in my bedroom so noise is a big factor so no sump for me.

The ones by the backpack people (cpr I think) look neat. Be a good place to put some chaeto and small light to run 24/7 .

With a decent small power compact light could even use it as a grow out place for coral frags. On a 55 gl tank two of the 19 inch hang on fuges with a remora skimmer on one end should help quite a bit with controlling the hairys.

And add some alga eaters for sure. Some people dislike hermit crabs but the scarletts are supposed to be good for alga. Throw a few diffrent kinds of snails in there too.

Tank looks like a nice beginning what are your plans for it? What type of animals are you setting it up for?

rustybucket145
03/30/2006, 01:11 PM
You need an army of Blue Legg and Red Legg Hermits!!! Some Snails and Maybee even a yellow tang. They should have you cleaned up in no time.

todd2000
03/30/2006, 04:15 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7075921#post7075921 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145
You need an army of Blue Legg and Red Legg Hermits!!! Some Snails and Maybee even a yellow tang. They should have you cleaned up in no time.

Well I alredy have a Blue Tang **ducks to avoid tang police**, but he is tiny, so no Yellow tang, but I deffinatly am going to get some snails and crabs.

todd2000
03/30/2006, 04:16 PM
Actually was thinking of a Lawnmower Blenny, that should help matters too

todd2000
03/30/2006, 04:24 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7075879#post7075879 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by omni2226
I have been looking at those hang on refuges myself. This tank is in my bedroom so noise is a big factor so no sump for me.

The ones by the backpack people (cpr I think) look neat. Be a good place to put some chaeto and small light to run 24/7 .

With a decent small power compact light could even use it as a grow out place for coral frags. On a 55 gl tank two of the 19 inch hang on fuges with a remora skimmer on one end should help quite a bit with controlling the hairys.

And add some alga eaters for sure. Some people dislike hermit crabs but the scarletts are supposed to be good for alga. Throw a few diffrent kinds of snails in there too.

Tank looks like a nice beginning what are your plans for it? What type of animals are you setting it up for?

Yeah I was looking at the CPR AquaFuges, but someone pointed these out to me and said they have been using one for months and have no problems. http://cgi.ebay.com/PRO-24-Hang-On-Refugium-aquarium-live-algae-coral-rock_W0QQitemZ7754336060QQcategoryZ3212QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem . You have to assemble them yourself, but if you like DIY it should be easy and MUCH cheaper then the AquaFuge. I got stoned in a previous thread for mentioning them, because eveyone was afraid of leaking, but really, what makes this any different from gluing your own acrylic together to make a sump? So I might consider one of those. Anyway as for the animals, I have a Ocellerious(sp?) Clown, and a baby Blue Tang, not sure exactally what else I want in the way of fish fish but as for corals Im gonna go mostly softies.