How Do breeders cut costs?

[ezhoops]

When setting up a breeding plan whether it be large or small I know some of the breeders out there do certain things to save money. Let's face it being a fish breeder isn't always a financially advantageous thing to do.
So in an effort to help others and hopefully help myself cut out some costs here are a few things I've done and seen others do to minimize costs in the long term efforts of breeding marine fish.

Please add any of your cost cutting ideas.

Perhaps when this thread is replied and full of great Ideas we can list them and make it a sticky.

1. Use aged tap water as opposed to RO water
2. Use a lower S.G. on certains species of fish
3. Use florescent lighting instead of incandescent
4. Use one large tank for broodstock instead of mulitple tanks
5. Have substrate free broodstock tanks
6. Raise larve/ fry in large rubber tubs instead of individual tanks

please add your ideas

[Siklid]

haveing not brred fish yet take this with a grain of salt ( IO or other wise :) )

1. to many contaminents
2. can probably be done
3. yes
4. that would make it harder i think to deal with each pair to find out who is breeding and not and the status of where there at .. if you know what i mean
5. yes
6. ?? depending on the age of the fry, imho i would keep each hatch(lings) in there own tank until they are at least a month old ( there may be no need to do this ) before adding to a community tank


remember this is from some one who has not breed yet but in the process of setting up a breeding system

i look forward to reading more on this subject



Ray

[ezhoops]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7100703#post7100703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Siklid
haveing not brred fish yet take this with a grain of salt ( IO or other wise :) )

Ray


Ok, grain of salt taken but these are not suggestions, sorry if it seemed that way. These are things I've personally done or seen serious breeders do.

[Kathy55g]

I am doing 1,2,3, and 5

[JHardman]

There are really four main/major costs in breeding.

1) Water
2) Food
3) Salt
4) Power

So anything you can do to reduce the costs of these the better off you are.

There is a hidden major cost, time. The less time you spend doing something the better you are going to feel about the whole thing as months become years and years become decades.

1) I would not use tap in my area. RO supplies are cheap, waste water can be reused for many household tasks/needs. My primary reason being the amount of PO4 in the water here... No need to make the pest algae grow any faster making more frequent the major cleanings required.

2) Yep a major one right there. Also look at buying in bulk. No need to buy the bucket when you can get a pallet at a 1/3 the price.

Also make sure you are NOT paying retail for your supplies! You are in the "trade" use it to your advantage!

[ezhoops]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7102030#post7102030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JHardman
Also make sure you are NOT paying retail for your supplies! You are in the "trade" use it to your advantage!

Good point! but how do you convince others so you can get a break. Most wholesalers require a tax ID number or something. any way around this?

[ediaz]

If you find a wholesaler willing to help you, some have a strong support for CB fish and might sell you without a liscence. Ask around. It would help also if you become one of his fish suppliers.

Getting your business incorporated is not that hard and it has it benefits. It is not like you need a store front or anything.

You can use DI water that has no waste.
Can also combine hatches of same species that hatch the same day, like 2 spawns of occ. in the same tank.

Concentrate on getting high yields, the more fish you raise the more return you will have, it takes the same effort and resources to raise 50 fish or 500 in the same tank.

Ed

[Siklid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7101572#post7101572 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezhoops
Ok, grain of salt taken but these are not suggestions, sorry if it seemed that way. These are things I've personally done or seen serious breeders do.

was just puting things down as i understand them, this way i can be corrected and learn

[REEF-DADDY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7102105#post7102105 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezhoops
Good point! but how do you convince others so you can get a break. Most wholesalers require a tax ID number or something. any way around this?

A tax ID is very easy to get.............

[JHardman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7102208#post7102208 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REEF-DADDY
A tax ID is very easy to get.............

... and little hassle to deal with too.

[Kathy55g]

can you just use your social security number?

[REEF-DADDY]

I doubt they will accept it. If you guys pm me, I'll give you the phone number to get your tax ID. Once you get your tax ID you can file with your state and viola, you have a business.

[JHardman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7102565#post7102565 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kathy55g
can you just use your social security number?

Think we are getting terms confused here...

When I was refering to "tax ID" I was refering to a permit issued by the state, county, city for you as a business to collect sales and use tax. Not a federal tax ID used by a company to report federal taxs.

Most if not all wholesalers are going to require you to have a sales tax ID (or whatever your local calls it) in order to purchase from them. Some will also require proof of a store front. A federal tax ID is not going to cut it for this.

[NicoleC]

Go to your state's website for their "Board of Equalization" or whatever they call their tax authority.

Fill out form for resale certificate.

You'll receive instructions back from your BOE about paying tax revenue, etc.

[CanesDave]

Here's a CPA answer for you - Online fill in for a federal ID (https://sa2.www4.irs.gov/sa_vign/newFormSS4.do)
You can get a federal ID # in about 5 min. Now, state licensing is another issue.

[clownfish75]

Some ides to reduce electricity use, here in australia you can hook up to a low tarif for hard wired items, the supply is only for about 20 hours a day though, but perfect for things like skimmers, lighting etc that will survive if they dont run all day.

Food in bulk is a good one, and getting aquaculture feeds not over priced hobby feeds.

Building filters yourself, expecially biofilters and becomeing an expert, plumbed, biologist, electrician, plastic fabricator, carpenter, welder, Chemist and fish room slave all helps save dollars, some might not be super legal but saves dollars at the end of the day.

Christian

[Dman]

1. Use aged tap water as opposed to RO water

All depends on the water in your 'hood, I use RO/DI primarily for early stage fry

2. Use a lower S.G. on certains species of fish

You can do this on all species and is recommended for most if not all pre-meta fry

3. Use florescent lighting instead of incandescent

You don't have to use any of that nasty HID lighting that all those stick collectors are so fond of, either :D

4. Use one large tank for broodstock instead of mulitple tanks

separate habitational areas are essential, dividing larger tanks with overflows between them can certainly work

5. Have substrate free broodstock tanks

Subtrates with clowns are a bad idea to start with, unless you like cloudy tanks.

6. Raise larve/ fry in large rubber tubs instead of individual tanks

I've never had much luck using plastic containers (yet) also you have to take into consideration the rotifer densities for pre-meta clowns, larger isn't always better.

Also,
Buy your own drill bits, they're cheap enough on ebay and drill all of your own tanks and use electrical cpvc and carlon fittings for bulkheads.

Build your own skimmers

Make your own broodstock food.

Anything you can automate. like evaporative water topoffs will help reduce the "soft" costs

[David M]

Insulate the room and heat the air, not the water. I always get flack on this but in my case it saves at least $150 a month. I went to Lowe's and bought 1-1/2 foam 4 X 8 panels and walled in a section of my garage. The only heat source ( besides the pumps & lights) is a a room dehumidifier and and a few small in tank heaters for larvae I want at specific temps. System is 900 gallons and runs from 78-80f with very slow fluctuations. I tossed out a few thousand watts of heaters and my bill went down $150. Two components of this are 1) configure the space so that as much of the total volume of the room is water as is possible. 2) Get the total water volume as high as possible. My room is barely 175 sq ft and I will have an easy 1200-1500 gallons in there when done.

Oh one more major cost saving tip; move here to San Diego where we get free filtered NSW from Scripps Institute :D

[oama]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7102030#post7102030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JHardman
There are really four main/major costs in breeding.

1) Water
2) Food
3) Salt
4) Power


John, you forgot the Biggest Costs of All.
Manpower (or Womanpower...sorry didn't mean to exclude the ladies).
And in figuring for this, you must take into account that it is 365 days a year job with no weekends/holidays/vacations. Overtime will occur often.
Any good Business Plan would include this and its a major factor in trying to figure out if you are breaking even.
Could the time spent be more productive picking up cans along the highway for their 5cent deposit?:rolleye1:

[ezhoops]

David m, I like the idea of heating the room and not the tank but here in Michigan we have high natural gas bills and could easily cost more than elec.

[Siklid]

heat the room with elec space heaters ?

[Dman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7106197#post7106197 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Siklid
heat the room with elec space heaters ?

Or gas, or fire wood, or sweat......

Heating the room is bound to be more effecient than heating individual tanks against the cold, like we get here in the North East.

[clownfish75]

Green house perhaps.

And i have to say i cool(mostly/heat(occasionally throught he water and i find it easier to deal with and im thinking cheaper to run, but i do have clear pannels in the roof and little to no artificial light.

I also need cooling due to the tropics wher ei live.

Christian

[stykthyn]

I have found that if you run the water from your tank to a wide shallow tub placed on bare concrete or tile and the the dump that it will drop the tank temp about 4-5 degrees. When I moved into my new house the livining room floor is tile and my rubbermaid sump sat on the floor outside the tank for the first week. I used to struggle to keep my tank below 80, now it sits at a steady 76.

[stykthyn]

I have found that if you run the water from your tank to a wide shallow tub placed on bare concrete or tile and then to the sump that it will drop the tank temp about 4-5 degrees. When I moved into my new house the living room floor is tile and my rubbermaid sump sat on the floor outside the tank for the first week and I noticed the temp was much lower in the tank. I used to struggle to keep my tank below 80, now it sits at a steady 76.

Edit- damn I cant type

[David M]

Yea we should all live in the tropics, or South Florida at least. For most people I think the greatest expense is going to be electricity: pumps, lights and heat. Whatever you can do to controll that cost will help a lot. Here in CA we pay very high elect rates, it is far and away my biggest expense. Food, water & supplies doesn't even come close. Someone above talked about fluorescent lighting, better yet is normal output T-5. The Current USA "Nova" NO T-5 48" fixture is not much more than a regular shoplight, it puts out about the same light as 80 watts of standard fluoresceny but uses 28 watts to do it. Much less heat too.

Most people think of Southern California as a warm place courtesy of Annette and the surf movies :) Well it can be very warm in the summer during the day but we have cool/ cold nights. The temp swing can be 40 degrees in 24 hours. That makes aquaculture tough and that is why in my case insulating the room is crucial, gotta smooth out that cycle. It's actually hardest in summer when I have to cool by day and heat by night. It's easy in winter, just batten the hatches and heat. In summer I have to open/ close the window and switch back & forth from fans to the dehumidifier. This year I will probably automate that but then there goes moes electricity :rolleyes:

[Armando]

I'm moving to Southern California in a couple of months and i DO expect to find a warm place just like in the surf movies :D

[NicoleC]

You'll arrive just in time for the amazin June weather -- warm days and cool nights. July is nice, too. Then August kicks in and it's super hot days and cool nights...

[ezhoops]

David, Don't mean to be a pill but I'll take your 40-50 degree nights anytime as opposed to the single digits:D

[stykthyn]

hell, it's already 85 here during the day, I fully expect it to hit 90 in the next couple of weeks

[David M]

David, Don't mean to be a pill but I'll take your 40-50 degree nights anytime as opposed to the single digits

You misread the post, I said 40 degree SWING in temp form daily high to low. No we don't get single digits but then we are not insane like people who live where you do :rolleyes: Why does anyone live there anyway? :confused:

You'll arrive just in time for the amazin June weather -- warm days and cool nights. July is nice, too.

This is a perfect example of how screwed up the SoCal climate is, ( they call them "micro-climates here), Nicole is less than 100 miles North of me, here in SD June is about the worst month of the year and we don't get summer weather until mid/ late July. In May and June we are fogged in from dawn to dusk ( it's called "May grey" & "June gloom"). It always p's me off I can drive two hours North to LA and the weather is beautiful. I just don't get it :confused:

[ezhoops]

Quote:
You misread the post, I said 40 degree SWING in temp form daily high to low. No we don't get single digits but then we are not insane like people who live where you do Why does anyone live there anyway?


Very Good Question!!!!!

Although spring around here is almost worth the winter, not to mention the ice fishing and those tasty yellow perch.

[ediaz]

Originally posted by David M
You misread the post, I said 40 degree SWING in temp form daily high to low. No we don't get single digits but then we are not insane like people who live where you do Why does anyone live there anyway?

There i$ $omething that keep$ me here after my company moved me here. Living in 90 degree$ for 24 years make$ you appreciate the cold and makes summer worth.:D

Ed

[ezhoops]

No doubt, Educator$ in Michigan are paid a decent $alary but $till not enough for what we put up with.

[Armando]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7115304#post7115304 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ediaz
There i$ $omething that keep$ me here after my company moved me here. Living in 90 degree$ for 24 years make$ you appreciate the cold and makes summer worth.:D

Ed

I'm actually having the opposite feelings.. Living 11 years in below freezing temperatures I'm ready to move to a warmer place. Sure the salaries here might be higher but at some point it starts becoming a golden cage. Or I might say a golden igloo :D

[NicoleC]

90F... still a bit chilly for me!

[David M]

:D My problem is that I have not lived anywhere "below freezing" or "90 degrees". I lived in St Thomas for 12 years, what can I say but that I am spoiled rotten. :smokin: Far from making me yearn for cool weather, it made me virtually intolerent of any temp under 78 or above 84 :rolleyes: And what's up with the ocean up here, are you NUTS???? I see people actually getting into the water! Not me, no sir, not a friggin' chance :eek1:

Oh and before Edgar tries to compare PR with StT, remind him of the slight "land mass" difference. :) Yes I know it gets hot in PR, but StT is just a DOT in the tradewinds. My tanks there ran exactly 80f year round with no heating or cooling.

[ezhoops]

Any other tips, breeders?

how many of you use moonlights or should I say mood-lights?