Need opinions

[BryanJ]

I am buying rock for my tanks. Would you buy live rock or lace rock and seed it with live? Buying 110 lbs approximately

[Daytymer]

If I had the cash... I'd buy Tampa Bay Saltwater rock. But, since I don't I buy regular live.

[Aquabucket]

I would go with mostly dead base rock but not lace rock. You might want to look into Hirocks.com and a few others.

As far as TBSW rock, personally I would avoid it for a couple of reasons, the area its is cultured in is too high in phosphates, and there are too many unwanted hitchickers such as isopods, aiptasia and potentially harmful crabs.

What makes live rock benificial is the surface area for bacteria. With dead base rock you will have no die off and a great home for future bacteria colonies.

[gooch]

Yeah, my tank will have no liverock in the main tank. Personally I think lace rock is to dense. But it works.

[prugs]

I've been looking at reef ceramics.
http://www.captiveoceans.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CO&Product_Code=KWD24&Category_Code=Pillar

Thats just a sample of what they make. Aquarium Obsessed has better prices, but captive oceans has all the pics.

[BryanJ]

Thanks for the opinions I have been buying tufa but I like the look of the lace better. I looked at Reefer Rocks and at the price they are charging I might as well go with live rock from fosters and smith when they run there sales. I will check hirocks next.

[BryanJ]

Hirocks is out of the best quality rock till next month but definitely great prices. I will buy the frag sized rock right now for my sump and maybe use some of the baseball sized pieces in the tank. Hopefully I can get a case of lace rock later this week.

[srlumaye1]

As far as the reef ceramics, I bet Gooch could do better...

[2003mikem]

i have a bunch of base rock 4 sale. since u r local i could work out a great deal. check out the link to see if u are interesed..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tufa-Rock-Reef-Rock-Base-Rock_W0QQitemZ7756402233QQcategoryZ117437QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[gooch]

I am working with ceramic myself. When you consider labor and how much it cost to ship that stuff from overseas the price is not out of whack.

IMO only, it is one of the better ways to go. The rock is very pourous. Very light and seems to be a coralline magnet. Remember you get what you pay for. Here is how far I am.

I am working on the rock for my tank and a few side projects. When thats done I am pretty sure I am done. Just very laborish.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/BigG1/newrock054.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/BigG1/newrock053.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/BigG1/newrock052.jpg

[2003mikem]

the ceramic rock looks great. i have diy rock in my fish only tank.

but if you r not will to wait. tufa is cheep. and local.

[gooch]

I wont put tufa in my tank. I just do not like the look. Just like the aquacultured rock on the market. To blocky. But that's just me. Cheap is not better.

I didn't go with the ceramic because it's cheap. I like the look. I also like the porosity, the shapes and the way it corallines up. I also like the fact that it is inert so it has no effect on your ph.

I also chose it over liverock. After getting in thousands of pounds over the last few years I am just very leary of buying LR any more. Hitch hikers, bad algae, inconsistent quality. I had enough of it. Good liverock is getting hard to find. I have gotten good rock and bad and it is a crapshoot. I tell you nothing can destroy a tank worse than crappy liverock.

[F1rebird]

Welcome 2003mikem !! .....You should post in the Sign up here to join FVRC to get yourself a proper welcome. Feel free to ask all the questions you need, were all locals here and can help you out! You already have my # , Give me a call!

[2003mikem]

why do u say "I wont put tufa in my tank. I just do not like the look"

The tufa I get is not the generic size you get in the pet stores I get it in 8”-36” in size what ever I order. It is easy to shape and corallines up very fast.

Or is it your own personal preference ?

here r some pics of my 155. i have 300-350 lbs. of tufa.


http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70538

[2003mikem]

i would like to join a local reef club. but hosting would be hard due to being on call 24/7.

[gooch]

Yes, my own personal preference. I just do not like the look at all. Those big pieces in your tank just look out of place to me.

I am not saying your tank is ugly, just doesn't look natural or right to me. But to each his own. You like it thats all that should matter. You may think my tank will look ugly but if I like it that is all that matters. We all have a different taste. I like the open look with flatter pieces.

I myself would rather pay $5 a pound for the ceramic from the above websites than $1.00 a pound for something I don't like the look of. Even if both work equally well.

The only reason I am doing my own ceramic is because I want this tank to be unique. And the pride factor of doing it all myself. I have no desire to drop $30,000 on the tank, equipment and livestock only to skimp on the rock. I could have gotten top of the line premium liverock for less than what I am spending on my ceramics but I just think what I am doing will be better for me.

[gooch]

FWIW I am anly about half done with my rocks. It will look much better when it is finished.

[thefishguy3]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7109926#post7109926 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2003mikem
i would like to join a local reef club. but hosting would be hard due to being on call 24/7.
Hey, as the saying goes "the more the merrier". Join, I am sure something can always be worked out... :D

[2003mikem]

i hope i didnt make u mad. i was just askinga ?

yes the way u do your tank is 100% up to u.

[srlumaye1]

Scott,

Bill mentioned that he didn't think the rock boring creatures would bore too well in the ceramic rock since it is in essence "glass". Any thoughts on this. If that is true, do you find that to be any sort of negative? If it has the porosity, you'd at least get the denitrification benefits.

Steve

[gooch]

I have spaghetti type worms growing on the rock I have in the tank now. Not sure if they are the boring type. I think if they can get through limestone they can probably get into this. There is also a buch of critters that live on the rocks. They seem to be living between the coralline layers.

My opinion is this stuff will be great in helping with filtration....to a point. The thickest rock I make is no more than 1.5". It is porous. Probably more so or equal to some of the liverock or base rocks we use in our tanks. I do not think it will aid in reducing nitrates. But that to me isn't the end of the world. I am planning an 40 gallon water changes every two weeks which would probably end up being about 15% every month. I also have a huge skimmer and lots and lots of flow. The tank will be bare bottom and I plan on using a floss type material to catch detritus before it gets into the sump. This sounds like a lot of work but it is all pretty much automated.

Where I think it will benefit filtration is in the massive amount of surface area the bacteria will have to colonize. I can pretty much double the surface area of liverock due to the fact the rock is hollow. Basically it will work like the ceramic that goes into a canister filter with the difference being there should be no sediment or detritus buildup in the tank like what occurs in a canister. Not to mention it does absorbe water like liverock so at what rate the water passes through it I don't know. But does anyone know how fast or how effectively it passes through a six inch piece of liverock? I don't. I also would bet 80-90% of the filtration done by liverock is from the bacteria living on or near the surface. If anyone has better numbers please share as I am guessing on this.

This is what I think will happen.....not what I know will happen.

What I do know is I have two 40 breeders set up sharing a 75 gallon sump. There is about 30 pounds of rock in the sump and two ceramic stream rocks. In one 40 breeder is about 25 pounds of rubble rock and no sand. In the other is about 35 pounds of ceramic and a shallow sand bed. It took about three months to get 100% coralline coverage on the artificial(ceramic) rock. The rubble also had good coralline growth. Now for close to a year I rarely dosed or cleaned the skimmer. And I did no water changes. At one point the skimmer actually wasn't on for about two months. I wanted to see if I could crash the system. I did not lose a single fish and the only corals I lost were a couple of stonie frags. I think those died from neglect more than anything. Lets just say the tanks look like hell right now. But both look bad. I have started doing water changes and the improvements are very noticable. I sucked out all kinds of sediment and the algae that was out of control in both tanks is going away. Coralline is growing at a rapid pace again. What's my point?.... I dont really have one. But I feel pretty safe in using this stuff after all I put it through.

I will be bringing a few pieces to the WRS meeting this month. I also brought it to the FVRC meeting a few months ago for others to check out.


Sorry for the book and hijacking your thread Bryan.....I am a bad man.

Gooch

[RCS]

I don't. I also would bet 80-90% of the filtration done by liverock is from the bacteria living on or near the surface.

I've read studies that show most of your nitrification AND denitrification take place in the first 1/4" (yes, one quarter of an inch) of a sandbed. This is one of the reasons I switched to a shallow sandbed instead off a DSB on my current tank. As far as I can tell, it works about the same. I would imagine this would translate to the rockwork as well.

[mako56]

Personally I like the critters that come in live rock. I thought that was the coolest thing when I started this hobby to find new things in my tank every day. I got mine from www.gulf-view.com kinda like Tampa Bay but I like his rock better its more like live rock than stone put in the gulf. Just my opinion.

[gooch]

Gulf View rock is nice. I have had that before. ALso did the Tampa Bay rock. I liked the Gulf View better myself also.

Unfortunately most of those critters die off over time. We tend to keep our tanks warmer than what they can handle. But they are fun to watch.

[BryanJ]

Thanks everybody for the comments.

Scott - Don't worry about the disortation. I was hoping for a couple of those to see if other people in are group felt the same way I do.

I am going to still get some from hirocks for my sump at least. An I am also going to stick to my original Idea of lace rock.