Im new to SPS corals...... any info?

[reefkeeper27439]

Hi,
im new to SPS corals and i was just thinking about what they need i just got a bright yellow SPS frag and the guy at the fish store told me it would grow about 1 inch a month.

Thanks

[DaddyJax]

Umm...no offense but we need some info on your tank. Lights, size, skimmer, how long it has been setup, water parameters, what are supplementing....this will help us help you. Do you know the name of the coral?

[Brewen]

An inch a month wow! I might question your LFS a little closer. Even in the best of tanks that much growth is amazing. Yes I would need to more your tank

[reefkeeper27439]

No i dont know the name of the coral. My tank has been set up for amout 3 and a half years i have a protein skimmer it is one that can be put on a tank up to 75 gallons (mine is 55 gallons).
um.... my nitrate is under 20 and im trying to get it lower my clacium is about 350 amonia 0 my nitrite is 0 ph is between 8.0 and 8.4. my salt level is about 24.5 ppm, is this to hight? I have 6 fish one is a vlamingii tang (yes im geting a bigger tank) one wachmen goby one purple fire fish one false perk one yellow tail damsel and one yellow chromis. My lights are 2 T5s and one actinick light not shure the wattage and one daylight 10,000k light.

[reefkeeper27439]

and i get sun light all day.

[Mariner]

Here's some info that might help:
-- Calcium should be kept at 400+ for SPS (Never lower than 360).
-- Alkalinity should be kept at 7 to 11 dKH
-- Most SPS need lots of light -- much more than a couple of T5's can provide.
-- Nitrate should be zero, or near it for SPS. Softies don't mind a little nitrate, SPS do.
-- Some softies secrete chemicals that are very harmful to SPS. If you have a very big collection of leather soft corals (sinularia especially) you should run lots of carbon and change it often -- it'll absorb the nasty chemicals.
-- If the 24.5 salt reading you're giving is the Salinity reading on a Hydrometer, it is very low. Seawater runs at 35+ salinity or 1.026+ specific gravity. I'm surprised that you've even been able to keep softies if that's an accurate reading.
-- It's always important to know the identity and needs of any animal before putting it in your tank.
HTH,
Mariner

[reefkeeper27439]

specific gravity is what i meant.... i was reading online that most frags only nead 3 wats per gallon (that is what i was going on) and i was keeping the salt level at 27 (but not at me knowing it)
i put about a half a cup of salt for every gallon of water. i had me water tested and the guy at the fish store sed it was way to hight i just have one of the cheap salt reader ($12.50) and the guy at the fish store that im talking about owns it and has about 1000 frags.

[damienkee]

I think, maybe sometimes, we should not trust the lfs so much. because they are out there for business but not for charity. Is our responsible to do some homework before getting any LS. this was told by lots of reefer all the times.
hehe... no hard feeling, just to share some of my tot.:D
as wat "Mariner" mention above. the parameter should be or at least as close aspossible.

cheer!
Damien

Just my 2cent worth....;)

[reefkeeper27439]

well every thing in the tank is just fine ive bred countless inverts in this sistem 2 tipes of stars, bubbletip anemones, sponges, fan worms and 2 diferent tipes of conch so i know the water is good and ive been reading about SPS corals for about 3 months. My LFS isnt at all good so the fish store i go to is 3 hours away so i cant just look go home and come back. And the coral seems to be fine i was just asking about what it needs not to be told to do my homework because i have and i just wanted some good advise since this is my first SPS. And my salt is 1.024 i just sed it was 24 because i asumed that ppl would be able to know what i meant.

[msman825]

HUMMM hammer: hammer :fun1: fun1

[mr pink floyd]

I Mnew to SPS too, i haev a 29 softie reef, set up almost 2 years, will be 2 in september!

i am planning on getting 156 watst of T5 HO( the 36" nova extreme)
at first i will do easier SPS, i heard green slimers are easy, adn some other easy SPS frags, not to keep on acros, which will be good?

i also plan on keepign a bunch of monti caps (can be kept under 2x65 PC i na 29 also so no worries there)

my flow will be 36x once i get my MJ 1200 and the CSS 65 up and running!

highest point in tank is abotu 6 inches down from water level,
nitrate-0
nitrite-0
ammonia-0
SG-1.024 its low today, slowly bring it back up to 1.024, its a 1.024.5 now
ALK-8KH
ca- i dont haev a test kit yet, i will get on saturday at the CTARS Meeting

i haev one finger leather, another unidentified leather, button polyps, yellow polyps, xenia neon GSP, kenya tree, gettign people eater zoos, adn grene devils hand on saturday also.

can i keep some SPS under these conditions? should i raise me salt more?

need more light?

i also might get a derasa in the future.

for LPS i plan on a brain or two (preferably favites) maybe a head or two of frogspawn, depends on hwo muc hroom i have!

[reefkeeper27439]

i know that most of the polips and the tode stools give off poison so plenty of carbon is needed and never touch the zooanthids. and the only thing i know about my coral is that its yellow 2.5 inches and is an acropora.

[MiddletonMark]

Reefkeeper - how do you suppliment Ca/Alk?
Do you have an Alkalinity test kit? What does it test at?

IMO, I would get these down, get levels stable of Ca/Alk [and Nitrate down near zero] ... then add something. But get the tank's specs `dead on' first IMO.

An inch a month is a lot of growth from most stonies. My green slimer grows fast, but we're only talking 4" or so annual growth. IMO, he's a little overenthusiastic about your results.

Have you read the stickied threads, including the `let's talk about ...' discussions at the top of this forum?
I'd really suggest it, good threads ...

[mntl]

reefkeeper27439---welcome to sps, sounds like you have a nice tank, post some pics some time (we are all about the pics here :D ).

As most have said getting your parameters inline are your first step. The nitrate is really too high. You will find that sps get frustrating when you have a few different species and all of them slowly lose the nice colors you originally bought them for (brown sticktank syndrome). Your lighting is low, but if you get your parameters inline and you place some lower-light (montis/etc) sps higher up in the tank, they should not be an issue. Just dont be upset when they lose some color from their previous tank, it is very hard to hold the intense pigments in lower light.

Also posting pics of your tank and posting all of your equipement (exactly, not just I have 1xxx turnover) really helps people better diagnose issues and point out potential areas of failure. For all we know as of now you have a 55gal with 1 mj900 for flow and a skilter hanging off the back. Which is a completely functional tank, just not realistic for sps.

These tight parameters are really for long term health, many times people with under lit/poor flow/bad water quality (not saying you) get a small sps frag and it lays down a small base and they feel they have succeed, only to see it turn brown and die off a month later, then they blame it on something that "just happened out of the blue" and not on the real issue (the tank was never condusive to long term success in the first place).

So post some more detailed specs (equipement) and a pic if possible, maybe even huspandry practices, then we can try to help "you" and "your" tank more accurately :D .

-John-

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7112690#post7112690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mariner
[B]Here's some info that might help:
-- Calcium should be kept at 400+ for SPS (Never lower than 360).
-- Alkalinity should be kept at 7 to 11 dKH

Exactly, get em up there.
-- Most SPS need lots of light -- much more than a couple of T5's can provide.
Plenty of people keep SPS under T5s. Hes also gettign plenty of sun. Light is not an issue here. I've got 250wDEs, and a window l feet from the tank. The sps on the right side of the tank grow toward the window, and I only get about 4 hours of sun.

-- Nitrate should be zero, or near it for SPS. Softies don't mind a little nitrate, SPS do.
SPS dont mind nitrate either. They actually need some of it. Some people actually dose nitrate. What SPS can't deal with is phosphate, and when nitrate is high, so is phosphate usually. Just a sign that things are decomposing in the tank.

-- Some softies secrete chemicals that are very harmful to SPS. If you have a very big collection of leather soft corals (sinularia especially) you should run lots of carbon and change it often -- it'll absorb the nasty chemicals.
Exactly. Its tough to do that sometimes though. The softies in his tank are already established, and that gives them a large competitive advantage. gonna need lots of carbon, but you're going to have to do it slowly, so you dont clear up the water too quick, and bleach things.

-- If the 24.5 salt reading you're giving is the Salinity reading on a Hydrometer, it is very low. Seawater runs at 35+ salinity or 1.026+ specific gravity. I'm surprised that you've even been able to keep softies if that's an accurate reading.
I agree. Get yourself a refractometer, or a lab grade glass hydrometer. Swing arms are a joke.

-- It's always important to know the identity and needs of any animal before putting it in your tank. Basically, yeah, but concrete IDs are almost impossible on SPS. Scientists cant decide whether there are about 150 species of acropora, or about 8. Theres a lot of talk about certain 'species' just being regional/color morphs of other species.


sorry to pick apart your post.

[Mariner]

Wow, getting dissed for not knowing 24 means 1.024 and then having my post picked apart, all in one thread. Oh the joy! ;)

Plenty of people keep SPS under T5s. Hes also gettign plenty of sun. Light is not an issue here. I've got 250wDEs, and a window l feet from the tank. The sps on the right side of the tank grow toward the window, and I only get about 4 hours of sun.
Yes, a lot of people keep SPS under T5's. I have some beautiful SPS under NO fluorescents in my 75g mixed reef. But I've got more than 2 bulbs :) If he gets direct sunlight all day, as he said, and if it's not filtered by UV shielded window glass, he actually doesn't need any lights at all. I assumed that's probably not the case. SPS dont mind nitrate either. They actually need some of it. Some people actually dose nitrate. What SPS can't deal with is phosphate, and when nitrate is high, so is phosphate usually. Just a sign that things are decomposing in the tank.
They need nitrate. They don't need it at readings of 20. They do mind it at high levels. I believe mntl and MiddletonMark concur. Do a poll in the SPS forum and see how many recommend keeping nitrates at 20+ in an SPS tank.
Mariner

[Wiskey]

I think nitrate is not so much the issue, as the phospate that usually accompinies it. When food and poo rots it creats both, but due to various reasons the nitrate is more easly detectable.

I agree on the lighting too, 2 T5's are not enough IMO, sunlight is hard to quantify, if the tank is getting a good bit of sunlight than it will probably be fine.

Whiskey

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7124047#post7124047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mariner

Yes, a lot of people keep SPS under T5's. I have some beautiful SPS under NO fluorescents in my 75g mixed reef. But I've got more than 2 bulbs :) If he gets direct sunlight all day, as he said, and if it's not filtered by UV shielded window glass, he actually doesn't need any lights at all. I assumed that's probably not the case.
Why would UV glass matter? My DE pendants all have UV glass, so my tank doesnt get any. So why does he need any?


They need nitrate. They don't need it at readings of 20. They do mind it at high levels. I believe mntl and MiddletonMark concur. Do a poll in the SPS forum and see how many recommend keeping nitrates at 20+ in an SPS tank.
Mariner

There have been a couple of studies, and they have shown that basically, nitrate doesnt matter. The thing is, high nitrates are usually associated with high phosphates, and thats usually caused by bad husbandry. Usually when you clean up, both your nitrates and your phosphates drop, but its the phosphates that really matter.

Check the SPS forum, there actually ARE a bunch of people running SPS tanks with 20+ nitrates with no problems.


Before these Mondo Jumbo Skimmers, most barebottom tanks had nitrates up that high, and no phosphate, and they grew SPS fine.


Having high nitrates is generally as sign that you dont have enough nutrient removal. The nitrates themselves are not really a problem.

[Mariner]

Why would UV glass matter? My DE pendants all have UV glass, so my tank doesnt get any. So why does he need any?
Sorry, meant to say Low-E glass, the kind that you get with a lot of home construction nowadays that not only shields from UV but apparently from other kinds of light/radiation that corals need. Anthony Calfo noted this when building his glass roofed house for growing corals.

Regarding the nitrates, I just haven't read the stuff you guys have regarding this, and since phosphates are very hard to detect, and since as you say they usually accompany nitrates anyway, I think I'll go on recommending to SPS newbies that they keep their nitrates below 20. :D

Mariner

[Wiskey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7124806#post7124806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mariner
and since phosphates are very hard to detect, and since as you say they usually accompany nitrates anyway, I think I'll go on recommending to SPS newbies that they keep their nitrates below 20. :D

Mariner

Exactally :thumbsup: In fact this is exactally why people always reccomend low/no nitrates.

Whiskey

[jay24k]

I question the nitrate thing. Why do people diss wet/drys so much? Wet/dry are VERY effecient at breaking down nutrients thus the nitrates can't be broken down or consumed. I think having 0 nitrates is the way to go regardless if your phosphate is 0 or not. They might need nitrates but by feeding fish and regular waste, your tank will get plenty of nitrates.

IMO, I would recommend nitrates under 10. I've seen several people with sps growth / color issues with nitrates over 10 and phosphates reading 0 using phosban 24/7.

[thebicyclecafe]

Reefer, my recommendation is that you definitely need more light, if the lighting is T-5 Normal Output then that is not enough for any SPS, let alone coral. Metal Halides are recommended for SPS (okay there are different types, but in general, SPS and Acropora) as they are the only type of light that can provide the intensity needed for these shallow water species. Two tubes aren't going to cut it even if you have sunlight. The mature tank is a good thing, however the nitrate issue is a bit pressing. You want to try and lower that, check your feeding habits as well as water changes. Zero is best, you will get awesome coloration and growth provided you have good enough lights.
Do you have other coral in the tank?

[reefkeeper27439]

I have 4 bulbs not 2. And yess i have one kenya tree , about 5 xenia ,a few mushrumes and 4 zooanthid polips (i dont like them since they can release toxins). My test for calcium only go,s to 300 so i just figured 350. I have aragonite sand wich i heard can give off some calcium and i suplament the calcium wen needed.
I would put up pics but im not sure how ill have to learn today.
i have one power filter with no sponges in it but it is only for waer flow i have one remora skimmer and the xenia and i have a big plant in the tank that looks like a big ball of fishing string (i dont remember the name) and my nitrat is under 20 not at 20.And mariner i asked my pairents about 1.035 ppm and they sed that was way to hight (they have been in the hobby off and on for 20 years). I know i should have asked what tipe it is. And thanks for all the help.

[reefkeeper27439]

:)

[thebicyclecafe]

The calcium should higher, minimum calcium level for any hard coral is around 350-380. It does not need to be as high as 450, that is actually not a good place to keep it, around 400 seems to be the norm. The zoos won't be too much trouble, you have a large tank and if the terpenoid toxins get to be a problem then just pop in some carbon. Try supplementing calcium regularly, your softies didn't really need it that much but if you want hard corals then try to experience managing the calcium at a sustainable level. When you say your calcium test only goes to 300 do you mean it does it in increments of 50 mg/L?

Water flow is extremely important for SPS as well, you will want at minimum 50x tank turnover per hour. 1.025-1.026 is optimal for a coral system. Hope this helps, ask if you have any questions, that is the best thing you can do!

[jay24k]

50x turnover is quite a bit and definetly not needed. It can help but I find positioning of flow much more important. I have approximately 20X turnover in my tank and it works just fine for me. I would not personally go lower unless you can really utilize where the flow is hitting. If you have a BB tank, then I'd say knock that flow up.

[reefkeeper27439]

WOW! Thanks thebicyclecafe. The test reads only to 300 and i think it is like 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 is how it tests but the collor isnt like any on the chart so i just figured 350. And i do run carbon.

[reefkeeper27439]

And WOW thanks jay24k. But im not sure what a bb tanks is.

[reefkeeper27439]

Mariner i wasnt trying to diss you ive just never heard of 1.036 for the salt.... sry we may have gotten off on the wrong foot :)

[jay24k]

barebottom. Just another method people use. I plan on adding 2 higher power pumps eventually but right now I'm doing great with 20X turnover. If you can do more, then by all means, but I'm fine with what I have right now.

[reefkeeper27439]

i cant figure out how to put up pics of the coral and filters like you sed but do any of you know how? And it seens to be dooing fine it isnt the metalick yellow it was at the store but i dont realy care about the color just solong as it lives. I looked in to my windows and they dont absorbe sun lite there just regular glass.

[reefkeeper27439]

any one know how to put up picks of the coral?

[thebicyclecafe]

It's definitely more about the direction of the flow than the quantity- good random flow is best, you don't want to blow off the flesh on your SPS but you do want them to be able to breathe. After awhile your coral will start growing into the tank and filling it up, then it is a bit hard to mess with the direction of the flow and such, but keeping it high will definitely be better in the long run.
What kind of calcium test are you using? From what you say (a chart?) it doesn't seem like a titration test kit. Those are easiest to use, I would recommend one wholeheartedly.

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7158721#post7158721 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefkeeper27439
any one know how to put up picks of the coral?
Here's one method: http://www.reefcentral.com/faqs/imgcode/IMGCODE.htm

[reefkeeper27439]

thanks