QT-ing a coral?

[archie1709]

So, if you have a Tang in your reef tank and you're about to add a coral in there, do you qt it?

They can carry ich right?

Confused. Sorry

[saltym3]

corals do not carry ich.

[Maxxumless]

Well, they are not 'infected' with ich, but they can carry it. I would be more worried about other things like bubble algae, reb bugs, flat worms, algae's and other little nasties. QT for a week at least.

[chucksta1]

Beware the coral store that gets stock in one day, and sells it the next. If you're a regular customer, ask them to hold it for a week. That's not as good as a quarantine system,but if you don't have the lights for a coral that needs MH, it's better than nothing. Also,there are "dips" that are available. Maybe someone who knows more about that could chime in on dips as an alternative to quarantine.

[guitarfish]

Ich cysts can attach to rock, snail/crab shells, sand, and the stony parts of corals, so it's good practice to QT corals.

[ASaleem91]

Not trying to hi-jack your thread or anything but i have also been a little curious about quarentining. I have had a question on my mind for quite a while and now I guess it is time to ask it. When quarentining a fish, coral, invert, etc how long should you quarentine them for?

Thanks,
ASaleem91

[archie1709]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7138708#post7138708 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltym3
corals do not carry ich.

I see....

....Well, I added a zooanthid colony last Friday, then Saturday my Tang showed white spots. I gave it a day, and now there are more. So how did that happen? The tank's been ich free since October 2005.

I guess in this case, i will just have to use Kick-ich to rid of the free floating ones, then buy a couple of cleaner shrimp to clean up the fish skin.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7138960#post7138960 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chucksta1
Beware the coral store that gets stock in one day, and sells it the next. If you're a regular customer, ask them to hold it for a week.

That's exactly what happened. Shipment came in, then the zoo colony was placed in an all-reef tank. Now I understand why I see writings on the tank that goes "so and so coral, SOLD, then name of the buyer". I should have kept it for a couple of weeks in there for QT. I knew it. Although there weren't fish in the reef, god knows where that came from.

I guess I was just pretty lucky with the other corals that I bought since I never had any incidents until this one.

This really frustrates me. I can't disassemble the whole thing and stress tha c r a p out of the tang chasing it around with a container.

I will let you all know the progress of Kick-ich and cleaner shrimp. I will also monitor my water parameters. Once the parameters go berzerk, I'll stop the treatment of Kick-ich. I get mixed feedback from forum friends of mine on this.

[ASaleem91]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7140561#post7140561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ASaleem91
Not trying to hi-jack your thread or anything but i have also been a little curious about quarentining. I have had a question on my mind for quite a while and now I guess it is time to ask it. When quarentining a fish, coral, invert, etc how long should you quarentine them for?

Thanks,
ASaleem91

???

[gman0526]

QT for at least a month if your going to do it.

[guitarfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7142322#post7142322 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by archie1709
....Well, I added a zooanthid colony last Friday, then Saturday my Tang showed white spots. I gave it a day, and now there are more. So how did that happen? The tank's been ich free since October 2005.


If you added the coral Friday, and on Sat (1 day later) saw spots, NO, they couldn't have come in on the coral. Even if there was free swimming parasites in the water with the coral (unlikely), and they infected your fish, it would take several days before the fish showed spots. Since ich is microscopic, when it attaches to a fish and starts feeding on it, in time it grows larger, and the fish's skin gets irritated and we see bumps/spots. It takes a few days.

Now, if you added the coral Friday and on Sat. (8 days later) saw spots, then yes, there's a good chance it came from that, if your tank had been clean otherwise.

Either way...sorry man!

[archie1709]

Thanks. That means this ich came from Congressional Aquarium when I bought a hammer coral from them.

Damn it, that local fish store claims to have the cleanest tanks in town. That's rediculous! I got the hammer coral Monday last week. Damn it.

I did read about the life cycle of c. irritans and the tomont stage takes quite a few days before they hatch.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[DaveJ]

Every tank has it... some are in smaller numbers though. Q-ting is a good practice though for everything. Healthy fish are the key to fighting it, along with UV etc..

[guitarfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7144177#post7144177 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaveJ
Every tank has it...

That is a myth. Ich, a.k.a. Cryptocaryon irritans is a parasite, and it is certainly possible to have a tank free of it. I have such a tank. It isn't easy, considering how prevalent ich infection is in the hobby, but an ich-free tank is definitely achievable.

[archie1709]

It was so frustrating.

Back in August 2005, I experienced ich in my (what use to be a) FOWLR. I did a hyposalinity treatment that lasted from September 2005 until the end of December 2005. I lost a red tail file fish, a false perc, a yellow tang, and a dwarf white-spotted puffer over the treatment. It was sad.

Anyways, I then brought the SG back up during the first two weeks of Jan 2005. I have not seen any white spots (even during the treatment) since October 2005. For a while, I absolutely erradicated the parasite.

6 months later, bam, after the addition of the hammer. It's like my whole life imploded...actually that's an understatement. I know it's probably overdramatic, it seems. But I really went through hell managing that treatment. Not only am I angry at myself, I am angry at that local fish store (Congressional Aquarium, Rockville MD). Two guys, David and Chris, normally tells me whether or not it's a good idea to buy. They are honest. And they'd tell you if it's not a good idea to buy or if there is currently an ich within the tanks. Chris is a member here too.

Anyways, I went to congressional and did not catch them. So instead, these other m o r o n s who pretend to know stuff sold me this and convinced me. that's my fault. I was the one who purchased and at the end the real m o r o n was the person who paid for ich to come back to his tank.

I am frustrated.

Tell me there's a reef safe treatment out there without having to stress the c r a p out of my BHT trying to catch it. Pleeeeease? :(

Thanks y'all.

[DaveJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7144490#post7144490 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by guitarfish
That is a myth. Ich, a.k.a. Cryptocaryon irritans is a parasite, and it is certainly possible to have a tank free of it. I have such a tank. It isn't easy, considering how prevalent ich infection is in the hobby, but an ich-free tank is definitely achievable.

Sorry but its not a myth, you may choose not to believe it though. Ich will remain but is not visible or a problem until stress etc allows it to take a foothold again. The abscense of the visible signs of it does not mean its not there.

[DaveJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7150869#post7150869 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by archie1709
It was so frustrating.

Back in August 2005, I experienced ich in my (what use to be a) FOWLR. I did a hyposalinity treatment that lasted from September 2005 until the end of December 2005. I lost a red tail file fish, a false perc, a yellow tang, and a dwarf white-spotted puffer over the treatment. It was sad.

Anyways, I then brought the SG back up during the first two weeks of Jan 2005. I have not seen any white spots (even during the treatment) since October 2005. For a while, I absolutely erradicated the parasite.

6 months later, bam, after the addition of the hammer. It's like my whole life imploded...actually that's an understatement. I know it's probably overdramatic, it seems. But I really went through hell managing that treatment. Not only am I angry at myself, I am angry at that local fish store (Congressional Aquarium, Rockville MD). Two guys, David and Chris, normally tells me whether or not it's a good idea to buy. They are honest. And they'd tell you if it's not a good idea to buy or if there is currently an ich within the tanks. Chris is a member here too.

Anyways, I went to congressional and did not catch them. So instead, these other m o r o n s who pretend to know stuff sold me this and convinced me. that's my fault. I was the one who purchased and at the end the real m o r o n was the person who paid for ich to come back to his tank.

I am frustrated.

Tell me there's a reef safe treatment out there without having to stress the c r a p out of my BHT trying to catch it. Pleeeeease? :(

Thanks y'all.

Give Kick-Ich a try, its expensive but many have used it with success in reef tanks with corals and inverts with no ill effects. Follow the directions and turn off all skimming, pull out all carbon and bypass filtration during the treatment time. If you have a bad outbreak, you may also wnat to increase the doseage a bit for the initial doses.

[guitarfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7151512#post7151512 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaveJ
Sorry but its not a myth, you may choose not to believe it though. Ich will remain but is not visible or a problem until stress etc allows it to take a foothold again. The abscense of the visible signs of it does not mean its not there.

Dave, there's an overwhelming amount of scientific data amassed by a variety of different marine biologists that documents the lifecycle of ich. There's also an abundance of people such as myself who've had it in their tanks, and killed it using copper/hypo, and leaving their tanks fallow.

You fill a new tank with fresh water, add your salt mix of choice, throw in some food flakes so they can decay and get the cycle going. 4-5 weeks later the ammo & nitrite spikes have come and gone, and the tank is "cycled". Is ich present? Obviously it can't be, there's no conceivable way the parasite could've gotten there.

I'm not interested in a fight over it or anything, but I'm just curious what research you can cite that shows it's always present.

[DaveJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7152566#post7152566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by guitarfish
Dave, there's an overwhelming amount of scientific data amassed by a variety of different marine biologists that documents the lifecycle of ich. There's also an abundance of people such as myself who've had it in their tanks, and killed it using copper/hypo, and leaving their tanks fallow.

You fill a new tank with fresh water, add your salt mix of choice, throw in some food flakes so they can decay and get the cycle going. 4-5 weeks later the ammo & nitrite spikes have come and gone, and the tank is "cycled". Is ich present? Obviously it can't be, there's no conceivable way the parasite could've gotten there.

I'm not interested in a fight over it or anything, but I'm just curious what research you can cite that shows it's always present.

Just real life data... board is full of people who never had it, never had an issue, didn't add anything new and it sprung up. Others have treated for it, knocked it out and then had it come back at some point. Others never have had a problem.. doesn't mean its not present, but just doesn't become a visible issue.

Your example is true though, in that particular one it will not be present. Add wild LR though and it will be in there unless the LR was sterilized or something ahead of time.

Is it possible to have a tank that is free of it? Sure if you go out of your way to insure it isn't by sterilizing everything etc.. running the tank for 6 months or more without any livestock etc, but in the pracitical world most of us live in, its probably unlikely and really isn't a factor since a healthy system and critters are capable of handling the problem.

[guitarfish]

Knowledge is power, as they say.

After two ich wipeouts, I've decided the only way to go (for me) is to QT everything. In the case of fish, every new addition goes through either hypo or copper. It's a long, painstakingly slow process, and I hate it. But the rewards are that I don't have to wake up one morning and see white spots on my fish, and watch them slowly suffocate, as happened to a couple prized fish I once had.

[Freed]

Guitar, isn't it frustrating to try to educate those that don't want to learn even if you throw scientific data and studies in their face?

[jeffbrig]

Guitarfish is absolutely correct. I also have an ich free tank, and it involves significant effort in QTing all acquisitions. My tank ran about 6 months with just LR before I added the first fish, so I know it started out ich free. All fish additions go through QT with hyposalinity for 6 weeks, so I know they're ich free as well. Corals and inverts also run through QT for observation (no hypo though) for several weeks, which should ensure that they're ich free. I run 10g and 55g QTs to allow me to do this. It is a significant amount of effort to handle the water changes and everything to maintain these QTs, but the end result, an ich-free tank, is worth it

[guitarfish]

I haven't posted a "soapbox" thread like this one in years, so I'm really gonna go for it. :D

The thing that I find frustrating is that despite what we do know (scientifically) about ich, that there are still so many things said and repeated that are completely untrue. It doesn't help. To the contrary, it makes it harder for the new aquarist to succeed.

Consider a non-ich example: for years people would setup tanks and put fish in the same day/week. The tanks would start to cycle, the fish would die. The LFS would then sell them more fish, and at the same time sell more equipment. "Oh, they died? You need a bigger filter...you need a protein skimmer...you need a this or a that..." After weeks of killing fish, the tank would finally finish cycling, the fish would live, and the person would swear "once I got that skimmer (or whatever it was they bought), everything was fine!".

Today, we understand the cycle process, and STILL I've been in LFS's where they tell people "oh you can add fish the same day." Well, I guess you can jump out in front of traffic too - it doesn't mean it's gonna have a good outcome though.

How many of us remember the event on morning TV a few years ago in the U.S. where a pet supplies company rep poured salt into a bowl, stirred it, and threw a clownfish in right before our eyes?? This was during the Finding Nemo craze. How many soccer moms at home went out and did this so little Johnny and Susie could have a "Nemo fish"? What they did was very bad from an animal husbandry standpoint, yet the masses watching were left with the impression that this is how it's done.

The point is, there's a lot of misinformation out there, and there needn't be.

Before germs were understood, people thought the common cold came from being out in cold weather. There was a time when it was believed in Europe that getting a bath would make you sick!

Ich is arguably the number one reason fish die in hobbyists' tanks. "Add garlic...get a UV sterilizer...get a cleaner shrimp..." whatever. I don't think this helps people understand the problem, or succeed in the hobby. To the contrary, it drives people away after repeated failure. Kick Ich and all that other snake oil doesn't help the hobby either.

Knowledge is power!! Understand the enemy! (Which in this case, is ich). Then you can conquer it.

(Thunderous Applause)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/guitarfish/Other/bowingsmilies.gif

[Freed]

Well said, I just hope those that don't want to LEARN will read what you just typed and then understand that they are wrong about ich.

[archie1709]

Hey Freed, I used to be like you. I'd chastise people's ignorance of c. irritans. I was successful with my hypo treatment. And I learned the cycle of c.irritans and their stages. So I was posting around like I am the king of hyposalinity and ich outbreaks. And everytime someone posts, I am always there to make them feel ignorant of the problem.

I then started buying corals a couple of months after the end of the treatment. I pushed my luck by not QT-ing corals (which could be a very expensive QT setup). And it's the one hammer coral that brought it back.

Now I am eating my words because it's not easy to plan hypo anymore realistically if you have a reef tank. It's difficult because (a) you will have to take down your corals and rocks and such and hope that you can catch (in my case) the Blue Hippo Tang without stressing it, (b) agitating the setup could trigger water parameter shifts, (c) stress to corals, and many other nuisance.

But, my friend, you are dealing with real people here and not just books and ideas. It gets comlex when you're not just dealing with fish, rocks, and water.

I guess what I am trying to say is, stop echoing someone else in hopes of rediculing the rest. You don't seem to be pertaining to me with your comment. Nonetheless bro, easy on it. We're all here to help each other. If you are sick of ich posts...do exactly what the other smart posters do, "on to the next".

My two cents for a better, more productive forum experience.

Peace to all!

[Freed]

Uh, my posts were not in regards to you but for DaveJ. Thanks and hassle someone else.