mandrin eating but not gaing weight?

[Kitteness]

I don't get it its been awhile since my mandrin finally starting eating mysis and brine and he is not gaining any weight he is skin and bones still. He eats a lot and i have been putting garlic in food. I feed him twice a day. And added all the coepods instuff also. He seems to act totally normal other wise. Is it possible he has something internal going on?

[jetaero]

You should try soaking the food in selcon first... Most brine shrimp is very non-nutricious on its own. Also try some fresh hatched brine shrimp, put them in selcon first too, to "fatten them up."

[Kitteness]

I have been using the vita-chem on fresh bine and frozen brine should i switch to selcon? is it better n more fatting?

[Ironsheikh]

sounds good -- and tell him to cut down on the cardio, he's burning too many calories

[stykthyn]

my old one like mosquito larvae

[The steven liu]

From what I've heard there are some key nutrients in pods that mandarins need in order for them to thrive. They can eat mysis and brime but will eventually need a large amount of pods for them to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

[Kitteness]

picky picky picky fish i tell ya

[Angel*Fish]

If he's really eating a whole lot of food, he should be gaining weight whether it's vitamin/fat enriched or not.

If he can catch live brine, I'd buy some & gut load a small batch of it with Prazipro every day for about a week & feed that to him once a day & just feed regular enriched food for his other feeding each day.

Prazipro is sort of a fish dewormer type med.

You can also soak his food in it if he will take it that way. If he starts fattening up soon - dose again in 6 weeks.

If you haven't gut loaded before, I tell you how, it's really easy.

PS - Are you feeding the pods on a regular basis?

On a sad note there may be nothing you can do depending on what ails him.

Are any other fish in the tank competing with him for the pods?

[clord]

SO you can soak food in prazipro and it wont kill the fish?

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7166055#post7166055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clord
SO you can soak food in prazipro and it wont kill the fish? No, it won't even kill the food :) You should rinse it well, though, to have as little in your tank as possible.

[Kitteness]

were do you get that stuff at? Is it totally reef safe? I have never heardof it before now? Nope he has no competiton at all. i put 4 bottles of tiger coepods a bit ago but haven't put anymore in since they are realy expensive where I got them is there somewhere to get them at reasonable price?

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7166462#post7166462 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kitteness
were do you get that stuff at? Is it totally reef safe? I have never heardof it before now? Nope he has no competiton at all. i put 4 bottles of tiger coepods a bit ago but haven't put anymore in since they are realy expensive where I got them is there somewhere to get them at reasonable price? I don't imagine it is totally reef safe, but it's safe enoug that you can feed small amounts to your fish. If your tank is full of Acropora you might want to double-check with someone...
Most LFS carry it - it'sabout $7 for a teeny bottle
I'm impressed that you bought all those tiggerpods! But they are just to seed your tank. You must grow many more. They have to be fed... dosing your tank with DT's or other phytoplankton dramatically increases their numbers. You probably don't need more tiggers just feeding, if you're not already.

If you've not been feeding them, I'd do it daily for a couple of weeks then maybe every other day. I assume you've read all the literature regarding pod piles etc. They need a place to reproduce where they mandarin can't reach them . They love stuff that's decomposing on uncured liverock. Buying a small piece of semi uncured LR could be even better than tigger pods.

HTH:)

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7166522#post7166522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
I'm impressed that you bought all those tiggerpods! But they are just to seed your tank. You must grow many more. They have to be fed... dosing your tank with DT's or other phytoplankton dramatically increases their numbers. You probably don't need more tiggers just feeding, if you're not already.



There's also the possibility of growing 'pods outside of the tank in a culturing tank. I'm attempting to do this as I type (not having much luck with it so far, but I knew I was bound to lose a culture or two before I got the kinks worked out).

[hlama]

try to feed him tetra's nature's delica "water fleas". its pods and such in a gel type form. the brime, even fresh hatched, is not going to do much for these guys. they need a never ending supply of food. even feeding them live pods, you would have to feed them small amounts every hour or two or put enough in "daily" to maintain a good population in the tank. the only way to have success long term with them is to have a mature tank and rock with a mature good producing refugium, set up to cultivate pods and thing more so than for exporting nutrients. mature meaning at least 18 months.(i know some say a year, but that is when things really just start to get going). growing macro in the refugium will give them a home and food. but do focus on cultivating the pods rather than growing the macro. if possible have the refugium above the main tank and use the pump to pump in water to the sump and let it overflow back to the main tank, that way you not lose as many as you would if they had to travel through the pump to get into the display. you really need to have a tank set up so you dont have to feed the mandrine at all. might be able to help more but need some info first.

how big is your tank?

how many pounds of live rock do you have?

do you have a sump/refugium? how big? whats in it? flow within it?

how long has the system be up and running?

what tankmates does the mandrine have?

[Kitteness]

Its a 55g, with a 40gallon sump with lots of live rock above and below. I can't even clean my glass anymore cuz I have stuffed so much in for the mandrin. I took out all bio balls over time and replaced with live and dead rubble rock its pretty much full I could squeeze some more in though. I have chaeto but it keeps seeming to dwindle and I just keep adding more. I added the tigger pods (4 bottles) into the tank and sump. I feed all sorts of stuff. I add kents phyto plankton, micro vert, zooplex, essential ellemints and vita chem into the food altenating these day to day into the food when I feed twice a day. I have a foxface, henichonius, tigger watchman with pistal shrimp, fiji damsel, 2 maroon gold stripe that are paired, and a coral catfish. I have long spined sea urchin, lots of narssis obsyleta snails, a few hermits, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 coral bandit, and purple/orange reef lobster and in the sump 1 brittle stars cuz they were to aggressive in the top tank. I think that is every thing.
The flow in the refugium I have increased lately. I have put a little nano filter in cuz that is the only think I could get in since my clearence is really low. I have a strong powerhead that goes at all times to keep the overflow from stopping.(a big pain) I put a pump in where the water comes in but I ran out of plugs so its just sitting until i figure that out. I have 13w PC light over it and a 50/50 bulb going over it too also. I have a rio 2100 for the returning water. and then 2 powerheads in the the tank. I need more movement in the actual tank cuz stuff just keeps settiling. The tank has been up for about 3 years now. I am in the process of setting up a 210g to switch over to but I want to make sure I have got all the whistles n dimes before I change over. There is no way for me to put the sump on top. My tank is viewed from all 4 sides. Its at the end of my bed so I can constinately watch the fishy's. So I notice everything. The temp was at 83 degrees for a bit and i didn't know but i lowered it and now the henichonius and foxface have ick terribly bad. So I am high dosing in garlic and stress coat and rasied the tempt to 81 degrees.

I think I answerd all the stuff but let me know anything that is needed to know cuz I love this fish and I am willing to do everything I can for him. I even stand with the turkey baster and take like 10-15 minutes dispersing his food in front of him to make sure the other fish don't steal it all. So I know he is eating cuz I am babying him with food.

[Angel*Fish]

Are any of your other fish losing weight or looking thin above the lateral line?

You've got several of issues & I hope you are also posting in the fish disease forum on this board.

Did you try the Prazipro?

[hlama]

ok a 55gal is kinda small for the fish you have. not bio but available food sources, perhaps bio too. i geuss you know this because of the tank change. the pistol shrimp, damsels and the butterfly will compete with the mandrine for food. mandrines are border line species only tank. slow feeders. the damsel and pistol shrimp will eat most of the availble living pods in the main tank. in the 210g tank with lots of live rock refug ect... and these fish there should be plenty of left over food for the mandrine. but if you plan on getting other fish might want to look at the ones you got and thinking of, to see if they will compete with the mandrine for food. "mandrines are not very competitive"
is this a reef tank or a FOWLR tank??

IMO a 55gal tank with the refgium and good amount of live rock will support a mandrine. that is if he has no competition for his main food source "live pods". wrasses, damsels, scooters or any fast swimming fish that hunts pods. shrimp too, although not to the extent as, say a wrasse. i think as far as the food goes in this tank with these tankmates the mandrine is just getting out competed for food.

you do have a lot going on in this tank right now. is it possible to set up the 210 and take out all the rock and sand and inverts then place them in the new tank "210g" and use this 55gal as a hospital tank. that way you can treat the ick and allow the new tank cycle aswell as let the pod population build up. treatment options, now thats a whole new thread.

for the sump make sure the prefilter is off the return pump and there is nothing blocking/keeping the pods from going to the return pump. and cheato needs a relative high turbulant flow with a good light source. high linear water flow is not the target. the cheato needs to "tumble". linear flow can work if you can get the cheato to tumble. but not tumble like gracila. i personaly use caulerpa and a mud bed in my refugium with 24/7 T5 lighting. the pods eat off the magro and use it for protection so its important to keep it going. just adding more does not help with cultivating pods. do look into the best macro for the refugium set up you have, flow lighting ect...

[psimitry]

Is there a record somewhere of fish that feed on primarily pods?

[hlama]

most do. wrasse for example will eat every pod in sight. however they can get all nutrients they need from prepared foods. other fish like an algea blenny needs algea in their diet in order for them to get the nutrients they need. mandrines just need live pods in their diet. unfortunately for us its a lot harder to maintain a good pod population than it is to maitain a good algea population/growth.
its just one of those fish that are real demanding, food wise. if you had one tang in a tank with lots of macro/mico algea you might not need to add any other greens. but if you have 5 tangs you will need to add some greens. so for your mandrine with those tankmates in that tank you will need to add enough live pods daily so that the other fish are full enough and leave some for the mandrine.

[Kitteness]

I know this will sound crazy most likely but the only fish that picks at the rocks is the mandrin. The damsel, and brown henichonious are not interested in anything but what I put in the tank thru turkey baster. The pistol shrimp lives with the goby and I feed him chunks of food so he only comes out to work or grab a bite. I seriously wish something would be interested in munching on the rock but I have all kinds of stuff growing on it cuz it is left alone. Foxface won't even eat the algae growing he just wants the stuff I add. I have terribly picky fish that just want the goods from the freezer. The mandrin is not really fighting any competition he crusies all around the tank and comes right to me when I got food for him. He loves the mysis shrimp so I been giving him lotsof that soaked in stuff. I am working as fast as I can to get 210g up its just a slow process no matter what I seem to do.

I used to have caulerpra but it would grow great then crash so I switched over to chaeto and couple other green plants in there. There is no pre-filters of any sort in the tank. I haven't had any ick in the tank forever. I lowered the temp and bam it apeared.

[Kitteness]

I used to use the mud in my refugium also but I took it out after 2 years cuz it was a major pain and just didn't read many goof things about it.

Like i said earlier my tank is at the end of my bed so I see whats going on all the time. I'd say I am at the least right next to the tank 8 hrs a day. I live at home still with parents still so I spend a lot of time in my room when lights are on. I work nights so the lights are off when I am gone. And come back on about noon when I am waking up. Thats the reason I know who does what to the rocks. So I guess I just have to get my bigger tank going as fast as possible. I was thinking of buying some more pods so I could seed the tank more.

[hlama]

here is a little something on the care of the mandarin. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm
a couple of abstracts from that.

Foods/Feeding/Nutrition:

Whatever other writers have stated, Mandarins almost never accept enough of anything other than live foods that are omnipresent in their system to sustain themselves. A nutrient rich live rock reef tank, read that as one heavily populated with hard substrates, with substantial interstitial crustacean and worm, and other small sessile invertebrate life of about 100 gallons will support one individual. And this assumes you have no similar food-competing tankmates.

In the wild their food choices are principally small crustaceans and worms. You can culture these "incidentally" in a large main/display system with lots of substrate and/or live rock, but adding a live fishless refugium will go an immense distance in assuring your mandarin/s receive sufficient live food. These fishes cannot live on dried-prepared or frozen/defrosted, or chopped meaty foods.

Foods/Feeding:

As stated over and over, feeding, or rather a lack therein is THE common cause of loss of these animals. They spend many hours seeking out small live invertebrates living in/on live rock and substrates. If these are not present or otherwise supplied, you will see your mandarins sides sink in and its vigor wane. Live foods can be bought on a regular basis, cultured in separate vessels, in an attached fishless refugium. Starter cultures for these organisms can be purchased from companies that you can find on the Internet using the search terms: "live plankton fish food".

Do not fall into the trap of offering nothing but adult live brine shrimp, suffused with supplements (e.g. Selcon) or not. It’s not unheard of that a dragonet will accept (with training) frozen/defrosted foods in place of live, but it is rare that non-live foods sustain them.

so in your tank all your shrimp not just the pistol are competing with the madarin's main food source. and the damsel i am sure is getting some of those pods too. perhaps the population is depleated so much you dont see him hunting the rocks much, nothing left. the ich yeah try to treat it and continue with the medication for up to 30 days after you no longer see any sign of ich. ich can live undetected so you must keep the medication going well after it appears to have gone. if posible take out everything in the tank to treat, dont want the rock to soak up and become saturated with any medication.
yeah get more pods you need them. i hope the link i gave helps.
a key to keeping caluerpa from crashing (or going sexual) is just keeping the light on it 24/7 or alternating the lighting so when the main tank light is off the sump light is on. i perfer the 24/7 lighting, used it for years with no problem ever. but cheato is good too, just need more light and flow. and the addition of iron and iodine will add in any macro algea growth.
if the madarin makes it to the 210g and you let the pod population build up a bit he should be cool, but do try to set up the 210g ASAP. as long as he is hunting for food on the rocks you still have a chance with him. o one last thing make sure there are no fish or crabs or shrimp or anything in the sump that will munch down your pods.