Weldon 3 banned [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

bassnman11

04/12/2006, 09:03 PM

I was told today by my neighbor, who is a acrylic fabricator that weldon 3 has been banned in LA, Orange and some other Socal counties. This is due to the AQMD. Weld on 3 is about 85% methylene chloride. Weldon 4 is still ok as it is about 40% methylene chloride. He had to remove the #3 from his shop. He only had about a pint left so he gave it to lucky me!!

fishesRdelicious

04/12/2006, 09:30 PM

what does methylene chloride do to you?

Kenzy

04/12/2006, 09:42 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7167334#post7167334 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishesRdelicious
what does methylene chloride do to you?

Suspected to cause cancer, my plastic supplier says he's required to hand out a whmis information package when he sells MC to new customers.

MarkS

04/12/2006, 09:45 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7167334#post7167334 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishesRdelicious
what does methylene chloride do to you?

Well, if it gets on your skin and you don't wash it off and this happens multiple times (i.e., acrylic tank manufacturing) it will give you skin cancer. If you inhale the vapors, it will give you lung and esophageal cancer (over many years). If you ingest it, it will kill you.

fishesRdelicious

04/12/2006, 09:50 PM

i guess i will be wearing gloves next time i use it

zapata41

04/12/2006, 10:37 PM

does the items that are banned mean that they are the ones that work really well?

Tim

DKreefkeepers

04/12/2006, 10:58 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7167736#post7167736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zapata41
does the items that are banned mean that they are the ones that work really well?

Tim

usually

Fast Fred

04/12/2006, 11:48 PM

According to many of the warning labels I've been seeing lately, most everything made today is "Known by the State of California to cause cancer". I guess if you live elsewhere you're OK.

Paverdude

04/13/2006, 06:44 AM

Good thing i live in Canada nothing made in the USA will kill me!

got2lb

04/13/2006, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Fast Fred
According to many of the warning labels I've been seeing lately, most everything made today is "Known by the State of California to cause cancer". I guess if you live elsewhere you're OK.

Everything causes birth defects and kills people in California! Man I'm glad I don't live out there! :D

RichConley

04/13/2006, 11:18 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7169975#post7169975 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by got2lb
Everything causes birth defects and kills people in California! Man I'm glad I don't live out there! :D

I bet they did the testing on Rats.

I'm convinced that lab experiments cause cancer in rats.

got2lb

04/13/2006, 11:32 AM

I bet if you eat ham sandwiches on the 2nd tuesday of every month at 2:15 pm it will cause birth defects and cancer in California! :lol:

thereefgeek

04/13/2006, 02:04 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7167407#post7167407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MarkS
If you ingest it, it will kill you.

Dang, I was just about to down a nice warm bowl of this stuff for breakfast too...

It's a relief that the government has required labels on everything in order to protect us from our own stupidity.

http://www.nsra-adnf.ca/images/pageimages/4impotentlow.JPG

Product Warnings:

"Caution: The contents of this bottle should not be fed to fish." -- On a bottle of shampoo for dogs.

"For external use only!" -- On a curling iron.

"Warning: This product can burn eyes." -- On a curling iron.

"Do not use in shower." -- On a hair dryer.

"Do not use while sleeping." -- On a hair dryer.

"Do not use while sleeping or unconscious." -- On a hand-held massaging device.

"Do not place this product into any electronic equipment." -- On the case of a chocolate CD in a gift basket.

"Recycled flush water unsafe for drinking." -- On a toilet at a public sports facility in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

"Shin pads cannot protect any part of the body they do not cover." -- On a pair of shin guards made for bicyclists.

"This product not intended for use as a dental drill." -- On an electric rotary tool.

"Caution: Do not spray in eyes." -- On a container of underarm deodorant.

"Do not drive with sunshield in place." -- On a cardboard sunshield that keeps the sun off the dashboard.

"Caution: This is not a safety protective device." -- On a plastic toy helmet used as a container for popcorn.

"Do not use near fire, flame, or sparks." -- On an "Aim-n-Flame" fireplace lighter.

SkiFletch

04/13/2006, 04:37 PM

I bet they did the testing on Rats.

I'm convinced that lab experiments cause cancer in rats.

Haha, they dont even do it on rats... They do testing on bacteria and expose them to the chemicals to be tested. If the bacteria significantly mutate they call the agent "carcinogenic". Anything labeled carcinogenic is rarely tested on people or even on rats.

bassnman11

04/13/2006, 08:46 PM

The meth chloride is what melts the acrylic to make the bond. The container did say it caused cancer in lab animals. If it is like the sweetner tests, they probably injected the rat with a quart a day right into the blood stream. Of course we all know that any thing that is any good is either illegal, immoral, fattening or causes cancer.:eek1:

prop-frags

04/13/2006, 10:11 PM

You guys can thank a lawyer for all this poo-poo.
Our litigious society is out of control. The US needs tort reform in a baaad way. Too bad all our politicians are also lawyers, so tort reform is like, never ever going to happen. This whole thing sucks. Eventually we are going to have to wear disclaimers around on our bodies and make everyone we talk to, look at, or otherwise interact with sign disclaimers, waivers, and releases so we protect ourselves from all the frivolous litigation.

:mad: :mad2: :uzi: :furious:

got2lb

04/13/2006, 10:38 PM

<Originally posted</a> by thereefgeek
Dang, I was just about to down a nice warm bowl of this stuff for breakfast too...

It's a relief that the government has required labels on everything in order to protect us from our own stupidity.

Product Warnings:

"Caution: The contents of this bottle should not be fed to fish." -- On a bottle of shampoo for dogs.

"For external use only!" -- On a curling iron.

"Warning: This product can burn eyes." -- On a curling iron.

"Do not use in shower." -- On a hair dryer.

"Do not use while sleeping." -- On a hair dryer.

"Do not use while sleeping or unconscious." -- On a hand-held massaging device.

"Do not place this product into any electronic equipment." -- On the case of a chocolate CD in a gift basket.

"Recycled flush water unsafe for drinking." -- On a toilet at a public sports facility in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

"Shin pads cannot protect any part of the body they do not cover." -- On a pair of shin guards made for bicyclists.

"This product not intended for use as a dental drill." -- On an electric rotary tool.

"Caution: Do not spray in eyes." -- On a container of underarm deodorant.

"Do not drive with sunshield in place." -- On a cardboard sunshield that keeps the sun off the dashboard.

"Caution: This is not a safety protective device." -- On a plastic toy helmet used as a container for popcorn.

"Do not use near fire, flame, or sparks." -- On an "Aim-n-Flame" fireplace lighter.

The sad thing is we wouldn't need those warnings unless some MORON actually tried it!

G-man17

04/13/2006, 10:49 PM

Methylene Chloride is actually bad for you. Halogenated solvents in general cause a good amount of adverse health effects. I've never used Weldon, but when I work with methylene chloride in my lab I always use it in a fume hood with nitrile gloves. Again, the amount and frequency of exposure makes a difference. Check out the MSDS for it and it will tell you more about this chemical. If I were to ever use Weldon, I would wear nitrile gloves and make sure that I had plenty of ventilation.

That said, there are lots of chemicals that are sold that are very bad for you. It doesn't mean that they should necessarily be banned. It just means that they should have the "use at you own risk" type of warning label on them.

falcondob

04/13/2006, 11:09 PM

That is like the warning on desscicant packets found in most electronics packages to remove moisture. The label reads, "Do Not Eat."

How many of you have opened an electronics box and found food! Maybe the people tempted to eat it, should. Natural selection would then take over.

My favorite label warning? "If you cannot read this warning, do not use this product". Oh man.......

hahnmeister

04/14/2006, 12:09 AM

Damn, I know I have ingested it a few times because I use it alot (sometimes you have to bite off the end on the needle when it builds up)... tastes like strawberries actually. Oh well, as with everything, moderation is key (even with CN, right?!).

bioload

04/14/2006, 12:33 AM

I occationaly work with 99% methylene chloride (DCM) for several processes at work and we require SCBA (Oxygen tanks) in order to even go in the area where it is processed, and sensors like you wouldn't believe to make sure there are no leaks. This stuff is could not be good for you.

Had a small spill once and it went right through the epoxy floor and disolved the concrete.

ReeferAl

04/14/2006, 03:00 AM

As I recall, one of the things methylene chloride can do is cause serious liver damage, and it doesn't take large amounts to do it. As G-man17 said, there are alot of things that are sold and that people use everyday that are bad for you if misused or used carelessly.
The reason those warnings about the state of California are on products is because the state of California requires them to be on them. Undoubtedly, many things "known by the State of California to cause cancer" really do. For other products, that connection is probably tenuous at best. California does tend to go overboard on their paternalistic laws. If it has such a label though it is likely a product you should be extra careful with, just in case.

Allen

BeanAnimal

04/14/2006, 08:36 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7167157#post7167157 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bassnman11
I was told today by my neighbor, who is a acrylic fabricator that weldon 3 has been banned in LA, Orange and some other Socal counties. This is due to the AQMD. Weld on 3 is about 85% methylene chloride. Weldon 4 is still ok as it is about 40% methylene chloride. He had to remove the #3 from his shop. He only had about a pint left so he gave it to lucky me!!

What can I say... typical of California. Next the entire state will complain that plastic signs cost to much and it's not fair. Don't worry, the weld-on 4 is next, as is anything with any VOCs in it.

Bean

RandyStacyE

04/14/2006, 08:40 AM

The state of CA requires all manufactures and distributors to label their products that says â€œcontains materials that are known to cause cancerâ€ if any portion of its contents, ingredients or material it is made of contains ANY known cancer causing agents regardless of how small of a quantity it contains. Ever seen a TV remote control with a cancer sticker on it?

Iâ€™ve seen products that are perfectly safe though contain a cancer causing agent of 1/1000th of 1% of the productâ€™s volume. Even though it is so insignificantly low the B.S. in California still reigns. CA also has a very strict VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds) restriction which may be part of why it was banned in CA.

gvibes

04/14/2006, 09:38 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7174085#post7174085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by prop-frags
You guys can thank a lawyer for all this poo-poo.
Our litigious society is out of control. The US needs tort reform in a baaad way. Too bad all our politicians are also lawyers, so tort reform is like, never ever going to happen. This whole thing sucks. Eventually we are going to have to wear disclaimers around on our bodies and make everyone we talk to, look at, or otherwise interact with sign disclaimers, waivers, and releases so we protect ourselves from all the frivolous litigation.

:mad: :mad2: :uzi: :furious:

Actually, I think that this is a California legislative thing, so tort reform wouldn't help.

newty

04/14/2006, 04:54 PM

Actually, I would not be too worried. Occasional exposure is not a big deal. I work with numerous hazardous chemicals in my lab, and most often, these chemicals have warnings.

Just a bit of info here:

As mentioned above, mutagenesis is typically identified by adding a substance to bacteria and count the number and identify the type of mutagenized bacteria. The next step is the rodent model, again, as mentioned above. They do several tests, including IV administration, topical adminstration, by itself, other components, and so on. Chances are, for most chemicals (including dextrose, which is sugar!) there is a tolerance limit for the animals. That is, a dosage of x milligrams per milliters will cause x number of x tumours in this model. Most of the time, these experiments are done on mice. I cannot recall too many of these tests done on rats, but that happens. Then again, I do not spend too much time reading MSDS sheets unless I need to know certain info.

A great place for Material and Data Safety Sheets (MSDS) is sigmaaldrich.com. Just type in your chemical name, and there will be a lot of hits as this company makes their living selling substances (sometimes there are too many, thought). Just follow a link to the MSDS sheet and you will get the info that is known at that time. Or just google MSDS and your compound name. That oftentimes works. For example (http://209.240.4.89/pdf/g96.pdf). Coincidently, the identified the LD50 in rats here. LD50 is the lethal dose that kills 50% of tested animals.

Hope this info is useful.

Newty

bioload

04/14/2006, 05:34 PM

I believe this is the correct MSDS

Methylene Chloride - Dichloromethane - CH2Cl2

Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Cancer Causing)

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/M4420.htm

BeanAnimal

04/14/2006, 06:59 PM

I am not saying the stuff is "good for you".... but I think you will find almost any chemical, industrial solvent or similar product has similar properties. Why not just ban it all.... Oh wait California is! Paints, Glues and similar products are not as good *** they were 10 years ago (no matter what the label or promotional crap says). The removal of the VOC rich substances has severly diminshed hte quality and strength of industrial glues solvents and coatings.

Instead of educating people, states like California use knee jerk policies to "help" everybody and save them from themselves. THe "joke" about a "this remote control may cause cancer becuase the plastic used in it's construction is made from resins that are made from solvents that MAY HAVE cancer causing properties" is not a joke... it is reality. Strange how the same folks are the ones who screamed and yelled until the govt mandated MTBE be used in their gasoline.

Bean

thereefgeek

04/14/2006, 07:07 PM

Hey, I'm a huge proponent of natural selection as it relates to evolution. If someone's stupid kid wants to huff a baggie full of Methylene Chloride vapors, go right ahead. At least they won't be breeding future generations of idiots! Seriously, a little self responsibility goes a long way...

RandyStacyE

04/14/2006, 07:16 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7179345#post7179345 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I am not saying the stuff is "good for you".... but I think you will find almost any chemical, industrial solvent or similar product has similar properties. Why not just ban it all.... Oh wait California is! Paints, Glues and similar products are not as good *** they were 10 years ago (no matter what the label or promotional crap says). The removal of the VOC rich substances has severly diminshed hte quality and strength of industrial glues solvents and coatings.

Instead of educating people, states like California use knee jerk policies to "help" everybody and save them from themselves. THe "joke" about a "this remote control may cause cancer becuase the plastic used in it's construction is made from resins that are made from solvents that MAY HAVE cancer causing properties" is not a joke... it is reality. Strange how the same folks are the ones who screamed and yelled until the govt mandated MTBE be used in their gasoline.
Bean

Not to change the subject or anything, but I believe the unidentified critter in your gallery is a type of â€œChitonâ€.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/215792.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/215791.jpg

Chitons are typically found by the shore stuck to rocks.
http://www.molluscan.com/reuben/pictures/CHITON%20BLUE%20BAY%20MAURITIUS%20080701.JPG
http://oceanica.cofc.edu/photo%20gallery%20underwater%2002/live%20rock/chiton.jpg

BeanAnimal

04/14/2006, 07:35 PM

That was kind of outa the blue...

Yup, after some research I did identify my little critter. I have not seen it since however. In any case, thanks for trying to help!

Siklid

04/15/2006, 04:07 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7168664#post7168664 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paverdude
Good thing i live in Canada nothing made in the USA will kill me!

except the pollution :)

p4ck37p1mp

04/15/2006, 06:25 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7179390#post7179390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thereefgeek
Hey, I'm a huge proponent of natural selection as it relates to evolution. If someone's stupid kid wants to huff a baggie full of Methylene Chloride vapors, go right ahead. At least they won't be breeding future generations of idiots! Seriously, a little self responsibility goes a long way...

Well said. Culling is natural.