The "Hitchhiker's Guide" to the Maxi-Stream mod

[JohnL]

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7169326#post7169326

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7169020#post7169020 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brians_224
RE: Ball's Shroud

Is there a limit to how short the shroud can be? (As long as it covers the prop :))

I have the lutz mods - I've become disenchanted with their performance and size.


The shorter the wider and more dispursed the flow, the longer, the more focused and concentrated. This is why I make mine shorter.

[Snarkys]

lol how many times has this been split ?

[dhnguyen]

Well for those who are just discovering these threads about the mods

OK here goes the parts list again with where to get them


The shroud:

-Schedule 80 1.5" PVC pipe (dark gray if you order from mcmaster.com part# 48855K25) for the 1.25" up to 1.4" propellers - Home Depot, Lowes, McMaster.com

-1.5" slip coupling for the larger 1.75" Dumas propeller

The propellers:

-1.38" Octura 2035 or 1435

-1.57" Octura 1440 or 1240

Octura props can be ordered from http://www.funrcboats.com/category.aspx?categoryID=109 or directly from Octura (they have no website nor email)

Octura Models Inc
(847) 674-7351
7351 Hamlin Ave
Skokie, IL 60076

-1.75" Dumas - Towerhobbies.com (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...p?&I=LXE472&P=0 or http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...p?&I=LXE473&P=0)

Everything else:

-0.098" carbon fiber rod - Towerhobbies.com (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...p?&I=LXJDP4&P=M) or your local hobby shop
-3/32" 316 stainless steel welding rod - welding supply shop, mcmaster.com

-3.16" thin walled rigid airline tubing.- LFS, Petco, Petsmart, DrFostersmith.com (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1)

-Flexible airline tubing 3/16" ID - LFS, Petco, Petsmart, DrFostersmith.com (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produ...4&N=2004+113403)

-CA or super glue - Towerhobbies.com. local hobby shop, Home Depot, Lowes, Target, Walmart, etc...


Cross brace: Can be made out of 1/4" thick scrap acrylic, 1/4" acrylic bars, or rigid airline


The pump:

Maxijet or Aqua Clear or whatever else you have on hand.

[Snarkys]

lol good call : )

[parvo99]

How does RC feel about people selling this stuff on the forums? I posted before about having extra parts, and now I also have a bunch of shrouds, because all I could find was 10ft of schedule 80 1.5 inch conduit. I'm not trying to sell it commercially, but wouldn't mind selling the extra supplies I have to those who don't want to buy excessive amounts of parts, or those who just don't want to have to make a shroud. Is this acceptable? Please delete this post if it's not.

[dhnguyen]

parvo99- I'd do it offline if I were you

RC has very strict rules about selling on here.

D.

[hyperfocal]

Wow pricey little pump.

Curious where did you find that out from?

I emailed Alita directly. Here's the meat of their reply:

The DCP11 DC water pump is $50 each and immediately available. If you like to order the pump, please feel free to give us a call at 626.962.2116 9am to 5pm Pacific Time.

The pump is amphibious, the connection between the pump and the 2 electrical wires is sealed by epoxy. You can apply more insulation for protection against damage. For power cord manufactured with protective PVC jacket, minimum order of 1,000 units required.

I'm a little concerned about their description of the insulation on the electrical connection.. it doesn't sound robust. While the health risks are a lot lower here (low DC voltage vs line level AC), I still don't want my pump shorting out and failing. Murphy's Law and all that.

Anyways, at $50 a pop they're too rich for my blood.

[ChemE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7169676#post7169676 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Snarkys
lol how many times has this been split ?

This was the second split. I think its working on being one of the longest threads on RC.

[GSerg2]

Ball, is there anything that ensures it will start the proper direction?

Very nice looking btw.

Thanks

[Ball]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7170609#post7170609 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSerg2
Ball, is there anything that ensures it will start the proper direction?

Very nice looking btw.

Thanks

I still need to add a stopper to the design to ensure it starts in the same direction everytime.

[Brent Thomann]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7170410#post7170410 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ChemE
This was the second split. I think its working on being one of the longest threads on RC. I think someone should start another thread for doing this mod with different pumps other then the MJ's so this thread can get back on track, ya say?

[dhnguyen]

Well I don't think it's off track per se using an Aqua Clear or other pumps instead of a Maxijet. Still the same mod just different pumps is all.

[Brent Thomann]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7171078#post7171078 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
Well I don't think it's off track per se using an Aqua Clear or other pumps instead of a Maxijet. Still the same mod just different pumps is all. Its confusing for the new people coming on. Subject says Maxi-Stream mod not Aqua Clear or other pumps mod.

reason I brought this up, as its been mentioned recently, my cousin just bought some MJ900's for this mod and I sent him your link for the thread and he said its very long and confusing, latest post don't even talk about the MJ. I'm sure I'm not the only one that agrees.

D' I think you just want to hold the title for the longest thread which I'm sure you already got. :)

[hmott]

I also think it would be nice to pull it out.. I follow this thread better then most I'm sure, I'm subscribed to it anyway. And I'm not even certain what the deal is with the ac's. I did go ahead and purchase one, but I hate to think about the number of pages I'll need to go through to find the info I need to mod it. The MJ was easy, But I'm very uncertain about the stopper on the ac's.

Maybe it should just split off fixed shaft versus rotating shaft mods. Thats really the big difference anyway.

[dippin61]

its so weird seeing a thread split without seanT as the poster :p

back on track.

yeh, ive also found the shorter the shroud, the better "even" dispersment of flow. amazingly its quite different with a short shroud vs. long one.

my longer shroud would tend to come out on one side of the output more then the other. if that makes sense. shorter shroud fixed this.

and also, dunno if this makes any difference, but i had to use a 2040 octura prop at the time, cuz thats all i could get locally, until recently. anyways, since its a 40mm prop, it wouldnt fit inside the 1.5" pvc i had. so i had to "bell" it out a bit, as someone said earlier in the thread. so there is some very nice clearance between the pvc and prop. more so then with a 1435 on stock 1.5" pvc.

i can tell you, my 55g with sand, cannot handle the flow of this power head without blowing the sand everywhere.

[Ball]

I think its ok to have both pump mods in this thread. I would have never heard about the Aquclears otherwise. Plus, most of the same design and theroy can be used for both. I moded many maxijets because of this thread. Now, I moded an aquaclear because of this thread. If another pump comes up that seems even better in this thread, I may mod that. Its a lot of info, but its good info. Keep it coming!

[hmott]

Now that talk has moved less on how to do it, and more on increasing effeciency. I have a question. Anyone know how close the prop should be to the sides of the housing? Its my understand, at least with air lift, the closer the tolerance the better. Yet I have, and many others I believe, a prop in my housing with probably 1/4" or more area around it. Wouldn't we get much better perforance using a housing that is just barely, close the better, larger than the prop?

I've been too busy with other DIY projects to try making several housings for it to test, but I'm pretty sure thats the case. I just didn't think about it until I had already made mine. Maybe when my aquaclears arive I'll test with them.

[Ball]

I have found that I get more flow with more space from the tip of the prop to the edge of the housing.

[hmott]

Ball, I understand that. I mean from the edge of the propeller to the edge of the housing on the inside.

[Ball]

The closer the prop diameter is to the housing diameter = less flow from the prop. At least in all my testing. As the space gets tighter, it seemd to chike the prop output. Im thinking thats what you are agreeing with.

The closer the end of the prop is to the end of the housing equals a wider smoother flow. This may feel like more flow. Are you finding the same thing?

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7171203#post7171203 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by humpn247
Its confusing for the new people coming on. Subject says Maxi-Stream mod not Aqua Clear or other pumps mod.

reason I brought this up, as its been mentioned recently, my cousin just bought some MJ900's for this mod and I sent him your link for the thread and he said its very long and confusing, latest post don't even talk about the MJ. I'm sure I'm not the only one that agrees.

D' I think you just want to hold the title for the longest thread which I'm sure you already got. :)


:lol:

Ok that said. Who's stepping up to do the new thread?

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7171652#post7171652 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ball
The closer the prop diameter is to the housing diameter = less flow from the prop. At least in all my testing. As the space gets tighter, it seemd to chike the prop output. Im thinking thats what you are agreeing with.

The closer the end of the prop is to the end of the housing equals a wider smoother flow. This may feel like more flow. Are you finding the same thing?


I have noticed the same as well. I think the principles in air flow may not work the same in water. But it's still interesting to find out though.

[Aquaduck]

I'm thinking of a way to keep these pumps running all the time and just switch the voltage going to them up and down like the new SEIO controller. I made a controller eons ago that did this for the original Quiet one pumps (the ugly beige and red ones). I had them alternating the direction of water returning from the sump to my tank on each end and I had to keep them running otherwise they would back-siphon when stopped. It was a simple circuit and used triacs and a step down transformer for the "low" voltage. The device switched from full 120VAC to something around 56VAC which was just enough to keep the pumps running. All I need to do is find out at what voltage the Maxi-jet stalls at. I've got to go and look for my DVM and variac and do some more thinking....

[wsc]

Aquaduck thats a cool idea. Ive read that (ideally) you should change the frequency in proportion to the voltage applied to the motor. ie at 56vac you should be running around 30hz or so.

I wonder how hard it would be to make a true variable frequency drive.. hmm. Probably pretty hard if seio is having such a hard time with it.

[hahnmeister]

it would be easier to make a stepped controller, like what is used in ceiling fans, or just converting to DC motors...

As far as an Aquaclear thread, Ill start one on monday if you all can wait. That will give me time to gather the supplies& photos, and tomorrow I will be getting 6 more aquaclears via UPS. Then I can spend the weekend making shrouds on the dremel router. Frunkster, yourfishman, and ball >>> please join in as well...

[wsc]

Just found this. Could be a possibility for controlling AC powerheads.

http://www.lsicsi.com/pdfs/AN304.pdf

Edit: look here as well http://www.lsicsi.com/acmotor_controls.htm

[KevinBrandon]

...

[quangtam7]

For wider and softer flow, just put a deflector in front of it, small suction cup will work.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e123/reefersrus/DSC00814.jpg

[nebraskareef]

Just watch out for curious fish....

how does it stay in the pump anyways?

Good idea for a invert only tank though!

[smells like fish]

FYI This mod was brought up on another board and someone replied with a DIY Vortech pump. He didn't post step by step directions, but gave a short paragraph outlining what to do. No mention on how much gph his pump gets, but it actually sounds makeable.

Scroll down the thread until you comeup on a post by liveforphysics.
I think he posts on RC too. He should start a DIY Vortech pump thread on RC.

DIY Vortech (http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14320&page=2)

[hmott]

someone needs to start a thread on that.. I'll def be onboard for that one. Sounds like I may have everything I need already to make one, except the magnets. It amost sounds like a mini magnetic stirrer, which tons of people have DIYed.

[Snarkys]

word

[hahnmeister]

All is see is the modded 802 from a few pages ago...no vortech.

[Barto]

hanmeister, here is the post smells like fish mentioned.

Al G- Be careful, I got flamed super hard for wanting to make some DIY vortech copys by folks on here...

Anyways, it turns out that makeing your own Vortch DIY copys is as easy as doing the maxi-jet to tunez conversion.

Thick acrilic disk with a Ti rod pokeing straight out of it, then a close fitting carbon fiber tube with an RC boat propeller slipped on the top of the tube. At the bottom of the tube you have a little 2" acrilic disk with 2 cutout for CD player lens magnets, or harddrive magnets, or really any little neodimium magnets positioned across from eachother on the outsides edges. Then stick a cover made from a plumbing bell reducer over the assembly just like what the pic you posted uses.

The next part is even easier, take a 2.5" PVC pipe section about 2.5" long. Stick a cheap RC car toy motor mounted in the center of the little 2.5" PVC tube. Stick the 2" disk with equally spaced neodemium magnets flush mounted into opposite sides to mirror the one you made for the propeller assembly.

If you didnt use super powerful magnets for the torque coupleing, then you might need to glue a couple of permanate magnets in approprate places on both halfs to ensure a solid sticking, but with the magnets I use, falling off seemed pretty much impossible, kinda like one of the very strong algea magnet scrapers. Put a thin little bead of silicone around the surfaces that touch the tank anywhere. Let that dry throughly to act like a vibration dampener and ensure silent operation. Now, the alignment is crucial to long happy and silent operation, so spend some time and get it dead nuts.

Also, the bearings in the cheap motor can also be noisey depending on what you got. Some small motors are really quiet with nice ball bearings and you cant hear them at all. Others sound like annoying whiring sounds, but I would say still more quiet that most closed loop pumps. Anyways, then you just supply it with power from whatever source you want, old computer powersupplys work great as a controler with the addition of a little pot interfaced with the voltage regulation circut for speed control. That way your powersupply can stay under $5. There are a zillion other ways to power them, or make your own controler and wavemaker or whatever, but its 3:52am and im tired of typing.

But yeah, thats how to DIY vortechs for about $35, depending on the quality of components you wana use.

Now I supose I will get flamed to death...

[brians_224]

I'm not going to flame you! :)
Got photos?

[Obi-dad]

dhnguyen - how about taking a shot at a vortech style device and giving us the details on what parts to use? :D

[dhnguyen]

Here's how I think the Vortech works. It is my guess that it's nothing more than a fancy magnetic stirrer with a propeller.

1. You have the external DC motor with magnets attached on the head.

2. The inside half will have a propeller attached to a fixed shaft assembly that has a circular base. This base will have magnets attached to it. So to keep the shaft from wearing out on the casing, you might need some sort of bearing around it.

I'm over simplifying it a bit but I think that's it.

Here look at this.

http://brewiki.org/moin/wiki/moin.cgi/StirPlate

[Aquayne_wv]

Why cant we just drill a bulkhead and mod the maxi through the side of the tank?

[Aquayne_wv]

Why cant we just drill a bulkhead and mod the maxi through the side of the tank?

[dhnguyen]

Ah.... I don't think you'll want to drill the tank for that. Getting a water tight seal around the pump would be a PITA for one thing. Then it also becomes fixed to the tank and won't have the flexibility to be mount elsewhere.

[wsc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7175240#post7175240 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smells like fish
FYI This mod was brought up on another board and someone replied with a DIY Vortech pump. He didn't post step by step directions, but gave a short paragraph outlining what to do. No mention on how much gph his pump gets, but it actually sounds makeable.

Scroll down the thread until you comeup on a post by liveforphysics.
I think he posts on RC too. He should start a DIY Vortech pump thread on RC.

DIY Vortech (http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14320&page=2)
That would be so easy to build.. it sounds like he already has it running too. I thought it a DIY vortech would require some kind of feedback to detect if the prop and motor got out of sync but it sounds like no feedback is really necessary...

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7178267#post7178267 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wsc
That would be so easy to build.. it sounds like he already has it running too. I thought it a DIY vortech would require some kind of feedback to detect if the prop and motor got out of sync but it sounds like no feedback is really necessary...


So... Are you volunterering for this project wsc? :D

[wsc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7178672#post7178672 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
So... Are you volunterering for this project wsc? :D
Yah I am definitely volunteering myself. Gotta finish up my last semester of college before I start up any more projects though ;)

[Frunkster]

I'm up for the Hagen AQ thread for sure:D , made a 402 conversion today in like no time at all even with all the alterations to get it right, just need to implement the stopper & were firing on all cylinders;)

I got myself 1 maybe soon to be 2 more 802 & 2 402's to keep me occupied & so I don't go letting this side of the pond down & go falling behind Hahnmiesters plans:lol: :strooper:

It's been hard enough implementing & reading/keeping up with this thread & the other Maxi mod related ones, now were going to have 2 more to keep up with eh :mixed: -

1. The worlds easiest stream mod's re the AQ's:lol:

2. The hitchhikers guide to the DIY Vortech ??

Should keep me & a few of you busy & the other half's packing:eek:

I found some groovy things to make the guards out of for the 402's, "there pipe slaves", I will add photos to my gallery of it & the 402 with it on.

Yes I know its very long & to restricting but it has to go through a weir & still needs attention to the exterior luster department, but hey it works & can be improved upon & I made it in about an hour & a half.

[Roland Jacques]

What what what! A new AC thread. OK but we are going to loose some good resources.

D are we ready for this? can hahnmeister lead us to that promise land of 6,000 gph 402s? Will you still accept us back if we fail? So many unanswered questions. Prop size, direction, gph.
No this dhnguyen, we will always love you like a father. But if we must, we must. The day will always be known henths fourth as Black Monday.

[Roland Jacques]

it was bad enough to wright that once but to click twice. im truly sorry

[Barto]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7181042#post7181042 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yourfishman
What what what! A new AC thread. OK but we are going to loose some good resources.

The day will always be known henths fourth as Black Monday.

Ummm, OK, ummmm, if you insist, but, it's Saturday ;)

[Snarkys]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7175240#post7175240 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smells like fish
FYI This mod was brought up on another board and someone replied with a DIY Vortech pump. He didn't post step by step directions, but gave a short paragraph outlining what to do. No mention on how much gph his pump gets, but it actually sounds makeable.

Scroll down the thread until you comeup on a post by liveforphysics.
I think he posts on RC too. He should start a DIY Vortech pump thread on RC.

DIY Vortech (http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14320&page=2)


funny how anti DIY that board is , seems the mods have told him not to go more in depth on it to protect their sponsors rights

[dhnguyen]

:lol: You're killing me over here Roland
I'm going to pick up an Aqua Clear or 2 myself :D

Frunkster and Hahn lead the way, you guys thought of a clever title for it yet? :)

[hahnmeister]

"Take your beanie propellers off and put them on an Aquaclear!"...???

[ChemE]

"5,000 gph from an Aquaclear in 30 minutes for $30"

[Frunkster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7181910#post7181910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen

Frunkster and Hahn lead the way, you guys thought of a clever title for it yet? :) [/B]

The K.A.H.F.M. Mod??

Killer Aqua Hagen Flow Maximizer - Mod:D

[dhnguyen]

How about.

The "Complete Idiot's Guide" to the Aqua-Flow? Why not, they have these Complete Idiot's guide books for just about everything else :lol:

OR... The Destroy It Yourself guide to the Aqua-flow mod. Hmm... I like it :D

[Frunkster]

That has to be the one D

Destroy It Yourself - guide to the AquaHagen flow Mod

[hahnmeister]

dhnguyen, all on one condition...you need to change that avatar. Im sick of looking at that nose-picking booger factory.

[smells like fish]

"funny how anti DIY that board is , seems the mods have told him not to go more in depth on it to protect their sponsors rights"

I don't think the mods are anti DIY. It was just a reaction to what happened from an earlier liveforphysics thread.

liveforphysics, from his posts, seems to be a very smart guy, but he sometimes rubs people the wrong way. I don't think he means to. He just very young and almost too smart for his own good.


vortech thread (http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13538)

This is the thread where he asked to borrow someones Vortech, so he could copy it. If he hadn't caused an uproar with this thread, I'm sure the RF mods would have no problem with him posting pictures and detailed instructions of his DIY Vortech in the RF Workshop forum.

[Barto]

Back to modding...
I was given a few 802's the other day, unknown condition.
2 dead soldiers, 1 working. 1 of the DOA's has what I think is a reverse flow attachment. It's approx 1 3/4" long (shroud length?)and has the "bayonett" mounts for the AC body. I'll get a picture up here in the AM. I have no idea of the cost or effectiveness of this housing, but with enough holes & slots I think it has promise. Now I have to get some props. My local hobby shop that was ordering props for me wins the De-De-De award. Nothing they got in is close to what I ordered. So much for trying to support the little/local guy. If anyone has more props on hand than they need, Pm me. Otherwise, it's time to burn a little platinum off the plastic :lol:

[creativesmurf]

Read all 83 pages... go to home depot and they don't carry Schedule 80 PVC. My local home depot is __________.

Last time I went there for glass blocks they stopped selling that too.

[smells like fish]

I don't know about everybody else, but I used schedule 40 PVC for my MJ shroud.



Hey Frunkster, Nice pix in your gallery. I was able resurrect an old AC201, using the pipe in your gallery. It fits perfectly on the AC.

[creativesmurf]

How did you get it to fit? The 1.5" ones have an ID that is too large?

[smells like fish]

Sorry, I should have stated that I used 1.5" sch 40 with the test cap.

For the larger prop, I used the 1.5" coupler along with a very very short piece of 1.5" pvc to hold the test cap.

[dmo]

Im using sch 40 pvc for my first attempt (no test cap), and it seems to fit well. I havent yet ordered the final parts to finish, and test it out. If things work out well, I may order the dark grey sch 80 to make it look better for the final product.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/darius779/fb1a4851.jpg

[Frunkster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7185520#post7185520 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smells like fish
I don't know about everybody else, but I used schedule 40 PVC for my MJ shroud.



Hey Frunkster, Nice pix in your gallery. I was able resurrect an old AC201, using the pipe in your gallery. It fits perfectly on the AC.

Hey smelly dude:D

Glad you got it sorted, simple in'it?

I have been using schedule 40 & 80 & everything else I can get my hands on:lol:

Has anyone looked in to Bass reflex Ports over there as they seem made for the job?????????????

It's basically the same as the pipe slave, but thinner walled & black, some come with interesting end grills to.

I will add a photo of them to my gallery ;)

Please ignore my feeble first attempt at a guard with the decimated one:o

Got some more done to mine but nothing worth posting about just yet, I will try & make some more time for the 402's v.soon, I also have a brand new 301 on it's way for $15 so I will only need the 201/101 & 901, then I will have a full compliment to play with :smokin:

[orlenz]

I used shd 40 on one of mine, it fit loose on the MJ so I just swapped out the "O" ring for a thicker one, now it fits tight.
sch 80 or a test cap fits better but if anybody has a loose schd 40 shroud its a simple cheap fix.

[Obi-dad]

Those black bass ports sound like a good idea, I think I will be swapping out my ugly drilled white pvc one with one of those. Anyone know of any sizes that fit the maxi-jet?

[hahnmeister]

Why not just order SCH80 PVC in dark grey...works great for me...???

[drgabe]

My humble contribution to the maxi jet DIY family.
2 400's with the dumas 1.25" props in a 55 gallon softie tank.
It saved me at least $100 and the hassle of doing a closed loop on an established tank.

They have been running for 5 days non-stop, no problems.
Thanks guys!!


http://drgabe.heavyhand.org/albums/aquarium/maxijet02.jpg

http://drgabe.heavyhand.org/albums/aquarium/maxijet01.jpg


Now to start hacking away on the aquaclears.

[smells like fish]

Nice work drgabe! I wish my shroud cuts looked clean like yours.

I know people have tested the output of the mods, but has anyone tested an unmodified MJ or AC for comparison?

Do they get anywhere near they rated output, ie. MJ1200 300gph, AC801 400gph,etc?

[creativesmurf]

None of the HDs in the Boston area carry SCH80. The big Loews in the area has a little but only as big as 1". Time to hit a plumbing store instead ..

[hahnmeister]

Mcmaster-Carr will ship it, thats how I got it...then I got it in dark grey as well...no painting needed.

http://www.mcmaster.com/ part # 48855K25

[Snarkys]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7184458#post7184458 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smells like fish
"funny how anti DIY that board is , seems the mods have told him not to go more in depth on it to protect their sponsors rights"

I don't think the mods are anti DIY. It was just a reaction to what happened from an earlier liveforphysics thread.

liveforphysics, from his posts, seems to be a very smart guy, but he sometimes rubs people the wrong way. I don't think he means to. He just very young and almost too smart for his own good.


vortech thread (http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13538)

This is the thread where he asked to borrow someones Vortech, so he could copy it. If he hadn't caused an uproar with this thread, I'm sure the RF mods would have no problem with him posting pictures and detailed instructions of his DIY Vortech in the RF Workshop forum.

He told me the mods or RF explicitly asked him not to post a detailed how to on this.

[Snarkys]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7191151#post7191151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by creativesmurf
None of the HDs in the Boston area carry SCH80. The big Loews in the area has a little but only as big as 1". Time to hit a plumbing store instead ..

check the electrical area , they all have it : )

[hmott]

tell him to come over here and post it.

[creativesmurf]

Nope, I checked that. They actually carry PVC schedule 40 in that area too. They even have some grey PVC sched 40 pipes there as well. Strang.

[hahnmeister]

SCH80 is induxtrial grade, thats why you wont find it unless you order it online or buy from a some place like a plumbing supply that carries commercial/induxtrial grade.

[hahnmeister]

SCH80 is induxtrial grade, thats why you wont find it unless you order it online or buy from a some place like a plumbing supply that carries commercial/induxtrial grade.

[brians_224]

My local ace hardware stocks Sched 80

[smells like fish]

He told me the mods or RF explicitly asked him not to post a detailed how to on this.

Like I said earlier, this all stems from the earlier thread where he wanted to borrow someones Vortech to copy. He wanted to make a MOLD of it. That's when the mods stepped in.

Read the thread (http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13538)

The thread is actually a good read. liveforphysics believed that what he was doing(making a mold from a Vortech,etc) was no different from the DIY projects already posted on RF(DIY needlewheel skimmer).

When are we violating copyright laws with our DIY projects?

I think he crossed the line with wanting to make a MOLD of a Vortech, but the instructions he posted later were more in tune with other DIY projects on RF and RC.

Nobody here is making molds of a Tunze stream and propellar. Right?

[hahnmeister]

If we turn around and sell, or DIY for the intent of selling, then it is a patent violation. To a certain extent, posting instructions on how a person can build their own is a gray area...but can be considered a patent violation. That is why RF mods stepped in.

As long as the poster doesnt give the 'step-by-step' , but instead were to post several detailed photos/diagrams for the intent of showing off what he did rather than showing others how to make their own...there would be no patent violation.

Trust me, been through this before.

[Timbo]

Creating any patented product on your own, for commercial OR personal use, is a violation of the patent and makes you and this site potentially liable. Period.

Copywrites are totally different then patents and really don't apply to products at all, they are intended primarily for other forms of intellectual property such as text and photographs. Inventions are protected by patents:


U.S Code Title 35.PartIII. Chapter28. S271 Patent Infringement

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.

(b) Whoever actively induces infringement of a patent shall be liable as an infringer.

(c) Whoever offers to sell or sells within the United States or imports into the United States a component of a patented machine, manufacture, combination or composition, or a material or apparatus for use in practicing a patented process, constituting a material part of the invention, knowing the same to be especially made or especially adapted for use in an infringement of such patent, and not a staple article or commodity of commerce suitable for substantial noninfringing use, shall be liable as a contributory infringer.

[AndyL]

Not going to say anything about patent as I don't know my arse from a whole in the ground on that topic...

But basically as I see it, they took a magnetic stirer put a prop on the inside and marketed - have trouble seeing how that's not patent infringement on their part.

But we don't see seio, tunze or other manufacturers screaming when we make stream type mods to powerheads... The basic idea is open source, I don't see the problem with doing a little reverse engineering to build a DIY version.

Andy

[ThunderousTalon]

this thread has been awesome, i am finally braving it up but I am curious as to what prop would be best for an aquaclear 20/201? I am thinking the 1435? please let me know. thanx for everything guys, definitely make this hobby better.

[hahnmeister]

"Creating any patented product on your own, for commercial OR personal use" - Timbo

Really? What is your source on this? See, according to the patent law I was informed of by my hotshot Boston patent lawyer, anyone can create a patented product on their own, as long as it isnt intended for to be made for profit.

There is a good reason for why this is allowed >>> R&D. See, if making a patented product for your own use was not allowed, companies would have a harder time developing off of other's ideas & designs. So making replicas, modifying them, etc (things that go a step beyond calling up the parent patent owner and asking them for one of their product) is legal. If you were to take those samples and sell them...then you are in violation. But, you can take that design, develop it, and if you can make a significant enough step-forward over the original design, your improved design would qualify for its own new patent (yes, even if its based off of another's patented design). Otherwise, progress would be hindered, because coming even close to another company's design in the development of your own would make you a patent violator.

Last I checked, making a patented product for your own use was 100% legal. Once you cross the line of selling it...then you are in violation.

I can make my own version of a patented product, post pics of it all over the internet, and there is nothing wrong with it.

If I sell the design, or, make step by step instructions or diagrams for the purpose of others being able to make their own patented products, then I am in violation. This is the grey area...see, if detailed drawings, diagrams, and such are presented not in an instructional format, but in a 'detailed showing' of a person's creation...they are technically legal. That was the question that the lawyer asked me when I told him I posted pics of the product I made on the internet..."was it detail oriented, or instructional?"...that is the key question. As it turns out, I was bordering on another company's utility patent (AquaC), but my design was viewed as a significant enough improvement over the original design that I would be legal if I patented it. If making my own version of AquaC's patent were illegal all together, I would have never been able to develop the design further. Had my detailed pics and diagrams been for instructional purposes (for others to build their own), then not only would I have been in violation of AquaC's patent, but I would also have voided the possibility of me applying for my own patent, as the public disbursment of the patent in a 'how-to' manner would have made the patent's details 'public knowlege'...and therefore not eligable for patent.

But last I heard, DIYing patented goods for personal use was 100% legal.

[rivan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7176394#post7176394 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
Here's how I think the Vortech works. It is my guess that it's nothing more than a fancy magnetic stirrer with a propeller.


Here look at this.

http://brewiki.org/moin/wiki/moin.cgi/StirPlate

I wonder if you can use two of these DC fans. One on the outside and then somehow refit the second one so that its salt proof. Probably still have to put in a water prop as the fan is designed to push air. The cheap fans usually use plastic bushings instead of bearings.

[hahnmeister]

I asked this a while back...and I suppose computer fans are a poor choice for moving water. A regular prop would be the way to go...

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7193495#post7193495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smells like fish
Like I said earlier, this all stems from the earlier thread where he wanted to borrow someones Vortech to copy. He wanted to make a MOLD of it. That's when the mods stepped in.

Read the thread (http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13538)

The thread is actually a good read. liveforphysics believed that what he was doing(making a mold from a Vortech,etc) was no different from the DIY projects already posted on RF(DIY needlewheel skimmer).

When are we violating copyright laws with our DIY projects?

I think he crossed the line with wanting to make a MOLD of a Vortech, but the instructions he posted later were more in tune with other DIY projects on RF and RC.

Nobody here is making molds of a Tunze stream and propellar. Right?

What he was doing is perfectly, 100% legal. You can't just quote one part of a law and think you understand it. All he is doing is covered under fair use.


That just proves that the mods over there have no idea what theyre talking about.

[MiddletonMark]

Folks, discussion of another board's moderation is not allowed here.

It's a quick way to end a thread, I'd strongly urge the subject be dropped.

[jmkins]

for the diy stirring mod, if you google magnetic stir bars you will find a number of chemical resistant PTFE coated stir bars in various shapes. Crosses, discs, x shaped bars are common and come in a variety of arm lengths.

Just a something to keep in mind if anyone goes through with trying this mod

[Roland Jacques]

OK Then,
How about them stream mods? Yeah!

What happened to the aqauclear thread?

I don’t no about you guys, but these ac mods are not working that great for me. The problem is start up power. It seems the 402 and the 802 start up power is about the same. Very little.

When it running look out! My 802 is running with the 1.75 prop it pushes my hand hard, I’d say around 5000-6000 gph. It was over double the flow of all 3 of my Lutz maxi mods side by side. But it is very hard to start and it would stall after a while.

At moments it’s acted weird; it is almost like it has 2 speeds. The slow 'I want to start speed", and the "look out speed im running speed". I tried the Lutz prop it is smaller diameter 1.27" and a more balanced screw type prop. I thought it would start easier, it still did not want to start in full speed. It was about the same start up issues.

If we have to use sanded down 1.5 prop or a 1.25 prop to make these have a reliable start ups. I'm not convened these bigger more expence mods are going to be better or easier than the maxi. Any thoughts?

[stones]

Just wondering if anyone has been able to solve the issue of aquaclears always starting in the wrong direction. I modded my AC 4000 and fitted it with an octura 1445 but it would always turn clockwise every time. Even with just the old impeller on, it would always turn clockwise. Is there any way to get the propeller to spin in the opposite direction or do you just have to use a right handed prop? Any help would be appreciated.

[Ball]

The 802's do have a startup issue. You just cant use a high pitch prop.

Use this prop. It will start everytime and you will get 3000 GPH + out of it. It has a very nice flow spread.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ761&P=7

[Black71gp]

hey ball what about double of those props.. my 802 runs non stop with no problems with the 1.75 dumas dual props... but starting it is a trick.. 3000 gph is good since i will try and run three in my next tank... maybe i will order 6 of those from tower

[Roland Jacques]

Ball like stone said how about the direction , is yours allways starting in the correct direction? what type prop are you using LH or RH?
is that the same prop you had to sand?



Black71gp

do you have pictures of your shaft assemble? also was your gph less with dual props? diid you notice the two defferent speeds?

[Black71gp]

i notice more flow will try and take a pic

[hahnmeister]

I am putting together pics for the new thread, and waiting on that order that should have come last friday...im missing my new 802s!!!!

[ejmeier]

I got some 3 and 4 blade graupner propellers, and they look really nice. However, I have already ruined two of them by trying to remove the metal insert.

I just cannot seem to come up with a way to get them out of there without ruining the prop. I inserted a 4mm screw into the threads of the insert, and heated it. But I don't think it got hot enough, because when I pulled it out, it was still kinda mushy and pulled a good amount of the props "guts" out with it.

Then, I got it even hotter, and tried again, and that one..... uggg, that one just melted down to almost nothing.

I am *NOT* going to try to use heat to remove these inserts anymore. I'm just not going to risk it.

Do you think I could maybe drop the propeller in some muriatic acid and see if it would corrode the insert away and leave the prop untouched? Any other ideas?

[smjtkj]

That great planes prop is what I am using on my 402, 4000, whatever. It kicks butt, but rarely starts in the right direction. I don't think it comes in a rh prop.
Mike

[Roland Jacques]

Cool Hahn Lou, really love the new you.

Hope you ordered RH props (or was it left hand). I think it is unanimous my 402 and 802 also turn backwards over 80% of the time.

I got two 901 coming, what direction did your 901 turn.

[impur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7201995#post7201995 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ejmeier
I got some 3 and 4 blade graupner propellers, and they look really nice. However, I have already ruined two of them by trying to remove the metal insert.

I just cannot seem to come up with a way to get them out of there without ruining the prop. I inserted a 4mm screw into the threads of the insert, and heated it. But I don't think it got hot enough, because when I pulled it out, it was still kinda mushy and pulled a good amount of the props "guts" out with it.

Then, I got it even hotter, and tried again, and that one..... uggg, that one just melted down to almost nothing.

I am *NOT* going to try to use heat to remove these inserts anymore. I'm just not going to risk it.

Do you think I could maybe drop the propeller in some muriatic acid and see if it would corrode the insert away and leave the prop untouched? Any other ideas?

How about a dremel with a grinder bit? Just grind it out from the inside. Or you could just silicon the heck out of it once its mounted.

[Roland Jacques]

ejmeier

that sounds kind of funny, i can picture myself melting props. but i no that cost money and time. and that part sucks.
how did you heat it? i would think you would have to have the pressure pulling, then heat the 4mmscrew with a tourch when the heat transfers it should come out. i think you need to a have fast high heat. but im just guessing. maybe funkster will chime in in. that acid idea sounds good, but wouldn't that take a long time on brass?

thiers not that much to seal with silicone . id use goop instead of silicon. its a good idea.

[Roland Jacques]

any one no what is the defferance bettween the 402 and 802? rpm? the start up power is about the same.

[ejmeier]

I used a candle to heat up the end of the screw. I really don't like the heat thing, there's too many variables, and it seems like its just guesswork.

That, and the parts are really tiny. Have you ever tried to hold on to a tiny plastic propeller that has no gripping surface whatsoever? (And its HOT.) And simulatneously pull on the opposite end holding a screw that is only 4mm dia. Not the most fun thing I can think of. Hard to get a good grip. :D

But, if all else fails, I may give it another shot, with the continuous pressure like you said. Maybe it was too much heat in both cases. I have a few other ideas I want to try first. I'm gonna try to force it out while cold, but by threading a nut onto the 4mm screw, and having that press against a washer that fits around the insert. Hard to explain.

But dang, if this works out, these Graupner props look really nice. They don't look "cheap" like others do.

[Roland Jacques]

ejmeier
where did you get your 3 and 4 blade graupner propellers.? and are they RH props.

[ejmeier]

I got them here:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/grboatprop.htm

Just a note, what Graupner calls right hand is actually left, and vice versa. They label it as if the BOAT is looking at the end of the prop, so its reversed what is normal.

The 4 blades only come in LH. I got a nice 50mm 3-blade RH one though. I got some smaller ones too, but I wrecked 'em. :( If I can ever get these inserts out, I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Ball]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7201547#post7201547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yourfishman
Ball like stone said how about the direction , is yours allways starting in the correct direction? what type prop are you using LH or RH?
is that the same prop you had to sand?

Mine doesnt start up in the same direction everytime. I made a stopper that corrects the direction, if the pump starts up the wrong way.

The "Great Planes 1.5x1.5 Wildcat/Stinger" prop isnt the same one as I started out with. I started out with a more aggressive pitch prop and had to sand it down. I had to sand so much off it to make it start that the GPH dropped a lot. The great planes prop starts up everytime and puts out mad flow.

Im making a 2nd pump so when I ordered the great planes prop, I also ordered a 1.75" Dumas prop to test out. I'll keep everyone posted on how that plays out.

[Roland Jacques]

Thanks for the heads up on the RH / LH deal. that is great to no before i order.
on these 3 blades, props i guess the 35mm will work for sure. the 40mm will be a maybe? and the 50mm will be very hard to start on the 802/ 402. the 901 should turn the 60mm.

is the inserts are brass or SS? i guess brass is only about 15% copper, i forgot but is that close? do you think that would be a problem with only that small suface area exposed and it painted/siliconed/gooped over. do you no what the Graupner shafts are made of?

[Ball]

Here is a pic of the stopper. Its recessed into the housing so its nice and sturdy.

http://www.notlehs.com/etc/802mod/stop.jpg

[hahnmeister]

I wouldnt bother with brass. Sooner or later, that silicone will lose its adhesion to the surface and expose the brass...and then you have a nightmare.

FWIW, I am working on an order w/ fun rc (they special ordered the 2035s for me, and are looking for some 3" props for me). On the 901, I used a LH prop...and didnt notice a startup pref for RH or LH. Luck of the draw maybe (or, technically, mine is a Hi-SPec 5000, so maybe there is a technical diff).

[Bug_Power]

Has anyone tried contacting the prop manufacturer? I'm guessing an email to the manufacturer could get some with no brass inserts. I'm sure if you got 20 or 30 props you could get rid of most of them here. They would just have to pull the props out of the assembly line early, or if they are cast then drilled and tapped (not likely) they would just not add the brass insert. I know I've worked with some manufacturers and they are willing to work with hobbiest most of the time. You may have to learn another language or speak engrish.

[billyzbear]

ejmeier, Why don't you press it out. A bolt going through it, a nut on the back and a spacer that is bigger than the metal insert. You may need a spacer on the nut side as well. Then wrench on the bolt. Or drill into it with brill bits. Small at first and keep getting bigger. You would need a nice set of drill bits though.

[Black71gp]

you wil like the dumas 1.75's on the 802 ball i have two on mine and wow... amazing. but starting it is a pain most times.. but onces its going.. i will probaly keep that on as is and make a few with the props you mentions maybe try dual props of those..

[rivan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7201995#post7201995 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ejmeier
I got some 3 and 4 blade graupner propellers, and they look really nice. However, I have already ruined two of them by trying to remove the metal insert.

....stuff deleted

Do you think I could maybe drop the propeller in some muriatic acid and see if it would corrode the insert away and leave the pro
p untouched? Any other ideas?

I am waiting for mine to do the same thing.

I think Funkster said that the hub was aluminum.

You could try drilling these out if you have a small drill press. I haven't tried this yet but I imagine that at some point the heat buildup will cause the hub to separate and spin out. But thats just theory at this point. I bought the 60mm 4 blade gaupner so I am going to be doing this soon.

[Aquaduck]

To remove the brass insert, drill out as much brass as you can, then soak the prop in either ferric chloride or ammonium persulfate. Both of these chemicals are very nasty. They will eat through anything that is not glass, plastic, or titanium. They will stain your clothes. Use gloves, goggles and even better, do it outside. Both of these chemicals will attck copper and some other metals like there's no tomorrow. You will need to heat the chemical and provide some movement by using an air stone. You must use a heavy glass jar if using on a hot plate. An old glass aquarium heater will also work.

In the PCB industry we use this chemical to remove copper from printed circuit boards.

Amonium Persulfate (http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/410.html)

[rivan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7200771#post7200771 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmkins
for the diy stirring mod, if you google magnetic stir bars you will find a number of chemical resistant PTFE coated stir bars in various shapes. Crosses, discs, x shaped bars are common and come in a variety of arm lengths.

Just a something to keep in mind if anyone goes through with trying this mod

The discs look good. But you have to buy a pack of 10 at over $100.

I am thinking that you really dont want this thing touching the tank glass for over a year while spinning. Its going to have to be floated above the glass. And then there is the issue of attaching a prop.

[MayoBoy]

Does anyone want to sell their impeller cover/nozzle piece for a MJ1200 ? I want to do some eductor experiments but I cut all my nozzles off...

[ejmeier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7204583#post7204583 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billyzbear
ejmeier, Why don't you press it out. A bolt going through it, a nut on the back and a spacer that is bigger than the metal insert. You may need a spacer on the nut side as well. Then wrench on the bolt.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to explain in my previous post. I'm going to try that later on today/tomorrow. Hopefully it will be pushed out cleanly without damaging the propeller. But the Graupners are one-sided, with the other end being closed, so it will have to pull out from the back side - the bolt can't pass all the way through the prop.

Otherwise, drilling is tricky because there's nothing to grab onto. At any moment it could "grab" and turn into a spinning, slicing, wheel. I tried tighening a bolt tighter and tighter to see if it would eventually loosen the insert, but that didn't work.

But yeah, the inserts look like they are brass to me. The outside of the insert is barbed, so it looks like it may have been pounded in, or maybe just cast in.

Does anyone know if straight muriatic acid would damage the propellers at all? I think they might be nylon. I don't want to go all over the place looking for these other chemicals, need something easy to find - at least for a backup plan.

[ejmeier]

I tried out my cold-removal jig, and it worked! Perfectly I might add. :D

Dang, that was so easy, I was able to take it out with just a wingnut, hexbolt, and spacer.

Here's the pic of what I used, along with the insert (perfectly extracted) and the "redeemed" propeller. :)

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23334prop.jpg

In a nutshell, you need a 4mm bolt, (preferably with a hex head so you can grab it with a pliers), a 4mm nut, (preferably a wingnut so its easier to turn), and a spacer that is close to the exact ID of the insert. (I used a nylon one, and drilled it out a bit to get pretty close.)

You put the nut and spacer on the bolt about 1/2 way up, then thread the bolt into the propellers insert, and crank on the wingnut until the insert pops out.

Really easy! :)j

[Rothie]

Sorry,Eric.
Could you give an explanation.I don't understand the wingnut and spacer.

[ejmeier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7208959#post7208959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rothie
Sorry,Eric.
Could you give an explanation.I don't understand the wingnut and spacer.
First, you thread the bolt into the brass insert in the propeller. (You should already have the nut and spacer about halfway up the bolt.)

The spacer is what takes the insert out. When you thread the wingnut downward, it pushes the spacer downward too - against the propeller. The spacer is sized so that it will butt up against the propellers body, but will fit around the outside of the brass insert.

As you gradually tighten the wingnut down, it keeps pushing harder and harder on the spacer, which is pushing down on the propeller. Meanwhile, the bolt is still threaded into the insert, so it isn't moving anywhere. So the propeller gets pushed down, and the insert stays threaded onto the bolt.

Does that make sense? It helps a lot if you look at the pic above.

[dhnguyen]

The bolt screws into the threaded insert then the spacer is used to push against it as you turn the wingnut. As you turn the wing nut inwards it will push down on the spacer and at the same time the bolt goes up pulling the insert out. Kinda like a brake caliper compress tool

[ejmeier]

BTW - I just tried "freeing" a four-blade Graupner, and it was WAY harder. And, from looking at it, it didn't look glossy like the other props, it was more dull looking. I am almost certain that it is reinforced with carbon fiber. The blades hardly flex at all.

I actually sheared the bolt off on my first try, but got the insert 75% the way out. I was able to break off what I had already removed, and then I rethreaded it (this time with a hardened bolt) and eventually popped the insert. But, like I said, due to the reinforcement, the 4-blade one was MUCH harder and took much more torque to pull free.

[Rothie]

I think I understand now.
d-I will ignore the brake calipers part.That wasn't covered in home ec class back in the sixties!

[dhnguyen]

:lol:

[jmkins]

If anyone has any extra parts for a mj1200 mod they want to get rid of please PM me.

[Roland Jacques]

ejmeier
let us no how that porp worked. is that the 35mm?

[Chrismo]

I just dremmelled my Graupner's Brass insert, and it got really hot and pushed itself out. I dremmelled from the plastic side in. I used the hole in the end to let the shaft out.

Chris

[hahnmeister]

Anyone found any 3" plastic props? 3 blade preferred. Debbie at fun RC is looking around for me.

[dhnguyen]

Octura has a 2.8" one but that's the largest plastic prop I have seen around.

[hahnmeister]

what is the pitch like? Got a model #? The 901 just tore up the dual 2.3" octura props...it needs a couple 3" props or more blades, or something to peak its performance.

[Roland Jacques]

Hahn
what happened? Was the rpm to much for the prop?

My shaft on the 802 bent while running in my tank. It was like a small plane crashed into my tank. Im at my desk and bang! Waters flying, loud banging, rocks falling, it about scared the poop out of me . I thought something was coming out of the tank to get me.:lol:

I think my prop must have started slipping and it must have melted the shaft. It was all pressure fitted no glue.

[Roland Jacques]

What do you think of this? Im putting one of my 901 in a Freshwater 500 gallon Oscar tank. It will run for a half hour once a day right before lights out. A little aerobics class for fish. My goal is to stir up the detritus so the filter can do its thing better. So I'm shooting for 12,000 gph. Do you think the 2.35"/60mm 3 or 4 blade prop will do that?

[Ball]

How big are those 901's? I have never seen one, but I heard they are huge.

[ejmeier]

I ran the 50mm 3-blade, and the 50mm 4-blade on both the 401 and 801.

Neither would start them in the water, but they would start them up out of the water, and then I could plunge them under and get them to run. They would sit and sputter and not do too much if I didn't start them above water.

Strangely, the 801 would always start the LH prop correctly, but not the RH. While the 401 was the exact opposite, as it had a preference for the RH props. Weird.

Hahn, I think you might like the performance out of the graupner 60mm 4-blade one. I got my 801 to run it, but only if I start it out of the water. I dunno, it still might be kinda small though, only 2.36" diameter, and I think the pitch is 1.4, but that's spread across 4 blades instead of just two.

The graupners seem really smooth, balanced, and I THINK they are quiet. (Hard to tell from all the splashing that it was making in my 20g tank!) :D My orchid dottyback was hanging on for DEAR LIFE.

I really have no good way to quantify the flow though, as it was run w/o any sort of housing, and I saw no need to pursue it any further since neither the 401 or 801 was able to spin the bigger ones on their own anyway.

I'll have to try them on a MJ900. Its just too bad I already ruined my smaller 3-blade ones. :(

[rivan]

Anyone tried putting a 90 deg. elbow on these mods to divert the flow? My thinking is that the powerhead could be mounted vertically to save space.

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7211754#post7211754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
what is the pitch like? Got a model #? The 901 just tore up the dual 2.3" octura props...it needs a couple 3" props or more blades, or something to peak its performance.


Octura prop model # 2.8

diameter 71.1mm/2.8" X 1.8 = pitch 128mm/5.04"
fits shaft size 0.187"

price $1.90


D.

[trottman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7214017#post7214017 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rivan
Anyone tried putting a 90 deg. elbow on these mods to divert the flow? My thinking is that the powerhead could be mounted vertically to save space.
flow is always lost with an elbow

[hahnmeister]

"Hahn
what happened? Was the rpm to much for the prop?"

-Yourfishman
No, not enough actually. The 901 is about the same wattage and size as an eheim 1260 or Mag7...I am looking for something with a much higher pitch or larger diameter than the 2.3" octuras I have used so far. The 901 doesnt spin as fast as MJs do, but its got a whole lot more power behind it so rather than speed, a larger pitch/diameter prop is a good idea. So far, dual 1455s dont seem to be anywhere near the peak of this pump's output. Three blade designs are avoided for efficiency reasons (overlapping wake of the blades voids the extra output of the extra blade) with higher rpm motors often used in race boats, but our AC powerheads dont run nearly as fast, and so 3 blade props are a good idea....or more pitch, or diameter.

I got my 802s today. It seems like routing out the inside of a 2" - 1.5" PVC adapter to fit over the shroud base on these pumps would be a natural solution....
For now Im off to find out what is the largest size prop it can handle...

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7213924#post7213924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ejmeier
I ran the 50mm 3-blade, and the 50mm 4-blade on both the 401 and 801.



Strangely, the 801 would always start the LH prop correctly, but not the RH. While the 401 was the exact opposite, as it had a preference for the RH props. Weird.
:(

it is weird my 802 want to start the wrong way for my LH PROP i have 2 more new 802s their not mine but i guess i should test them for rotation. and to see if they will start this 42mm. i think 35mm is the magic number.

can we clarify LEFT HAND for me. from the back (behind) of the boat looking at the prop the upper most blade turns to the left to propelle the boat forward that a LH prop right?

[ejmeier]

I wouldn't worry about rotation, I suspect that if it turns the wrong way, it may be too much for the pump to spin anyway. That's my theory anyway.

I see roatation as if I am looking straight on the propeller, so the shaft is behind the prop. (Heh, we don't use boats! ;))

The four blade ones are only available in LH, which spin counterclockwise when viewed from the front. (Graupner calls this "clockwise" or "right" hand propellers, because they rate them as the boat would see them. Or in our case, as the pump/shaft would see them.)

What I own, and have tested are:
50mm 4-blade LH
50mm 3-blade RH

BTW - My 802 runs at about 15w with the stock impeller, and if I create backpressure on the outlet nozzle, I can get it to drop to about 13. It only uses 6w with a Nitro hammer 1 1/4". Interestingly enough, when I start the big 4-blade one in the air, and plunge it into the water, it runs at 20w.

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7211754#post7211754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
The 901 just tore up the dual 2.3" octura props...
this is why i asked what happened

You meant "tore up" like good tore up not like bad tore up, I get it now. That’s bad man, I meant good bad. Forgive me im old and slow and can't keep up with these new sayings. i mean old and slow.

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7216218#post7216218 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ejmeier


I see roatation as if I am looking straight on the propeller, so the shaft is behind the prop. (Heh, we don't use boats! ;))


so we agree right?
from behind the prop counterclockwise is left hand.

[ejmeier]

lol - this is getting confusing.

why do you say behind the prop? I mean in front of it.

Here's a pic from hobby lobby of some graupners:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/images/gr230830.jpg

Look at how the blades are slanted, they would all spin counterclockwise when looking at the FRONT of the prop. I would call all three of the above props LEFT HANDED. (And graupner calls them RH.)

[Roland Jacques]

ok whos on first:lol:

you are calling the side in your photo the Front(i'm calling that side in the photo the back or behind)

now i have to get my old books out

the book dose not say what the front is. it dose say to look at the prop from behind. the prop has a leading edge (the front) and a trailing edge (the back) so for me we look at the prop from behind (the back) to determin rotation. and those all turn counterclockwise.

all that to say yes it those are all left handed props.

[mfinn]

I am really impressed with this mod. It is so cool.
I am curious how everyone hangs or supports their maxi's in the tank.
The old suction cup mounts don't work any more.
This is what I did.


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/11798inside_tank_1rc.jpg



http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/11798inside_magnet_rc.jpg


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/11798outside_magnet_rc.jpg

[Rothie]

For those of you that have problems with the MaxiJet mod-the prop jumping in and out and unable to correct the directioin of the spin-
I have an MJ1200 with a Dumas 1 1/2" prop that did this and I tried all means to correct it.I finally changed the prop out with a dual Dumas 1 1/4" prop and it works great,each time,every time.There are still noise problems(my Maxi 900 dual prop is silent).I'll work on that next.

[AnnArborBuck]

mfinn,

Is that a magnet assembly holding it on? If so what type of magnets, that is nice.

[mfinn]

Thank-you

I used 1"x3/8" neodymium magnets and acrylic.

[brians_224]

mfinn - nice shroud. How'd you cut such crisp slots?

[brians_224]

mfinn - nice shroud. How'd you cut such crisp slots?

[mfinn]

I had help from someone else.
He did a professional job.
Does anyone have pictures of their mounting brackets?

[crypto]

my mounting bracket is just some scrap acrylic shaped into an L with the MJ mounting piece glued onto it. i don't know if it is because of the increased flow but the MJ mounting piece no longer stays in the groove so i had to use plastic tie wraps for now. the piece looks warped.

the whole thing looks like crap so no pics.

[Obi-dad]

Is the magnet portion of the impeller assembly in a maxi 900 the same as in a maxi 1200?

I tried putting the mod from my maxi 1200 into a 900 because the magnet looks the same, but it won't spin the twin Nitro props unless I take it out of the water first. Is anyone running twin nitro props on a 900? My 1200 makes a hum, so I was hoping to use the 900.

[dhnguyen]

There will always be some humming because of the propellers. The Nitro Hammer prop I have discovered is a bit noiser than others. As far as the magnet impeller assembly is concerned, although they are the same size, the MJ1200 is stronger than the MJ900. Also the MJ1200 motor has more torque than a MJ900.

It is possible and probable that your MJ900 pump motor is a bit too weak especially if it's an older pump.


D.

[hahnmeister]

The humming seems to be a problem with the aquaclears as well. The problem seems to stem from the way we are using these pumps though... the stock impeller creates a force perpendicular to the shaft, so the force of the magnet is all that is needed to keep everything in place. But with propellers, there is a force pushing the magnet back into the pump. On smaller pumps, the force of the propeller isnt so great always, but on larger powerheads, the force of the larger propellers forces the magnet to wear against the bushing inside the powerhead...and this is where the noise comes from. Since this is something that the powerhead mfg's never planned on, the occurance or probability of one powerhead humming more or less than another is almost random depnding on the model. The MJ400 I have running a dumas 1.25" prop is dead silent, but even the small Aquaclear Mini Pump/HiSpec1000/10 makes a small buzzing with any prop. The strength of the magnets on the larger AC402 and 802s seems to prevent this friction from happening (tha magnet has a strong pull on the motor to prevent the impeller/magnet assembly from ever being pushed back all the way), but depending on what the largest prop I find that will run on it...this one might still make noise with a large enough prop.

[quangtam7]

I made a removable "roof" for this 2" housing because I really got a problem of air being sucked into it causing very unpleasant rattling noise by 1.75" prop.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e123/reefersrus/streamer2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e123/reefersrus/streamer1.jpg

[dhnguyen]

That's awesome quangtam7. How are you attaching the hood on the pump?

[Siapin]

Okay, I'm new to this thread, and I've found out that there's about 150 pages, maybe more. I have a MaxiJet 1200 that I want to mod, and maybe get another 1 or 2 depending on the outcome of this. Should I go with MJ 1200, or different pump? Basically I want to figure out what to do, and there's tons of information that I can find out, but I just want to do a mod without having to read through 200 pages of this.



Where do I start?

[ejmeier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7223878#post7223878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
The humming seems to be a problem with the aquaclears as well. The problem seems to stem from the way we are using these pumps though... the stock impeller creates a force perpendicular to the shaft, so the force of the magnet is all that is needed to keep everything in place. But with propellers, there is a force pushing the magnet back into the pump. On smaller pumps, the force of the propeller isnt so great always, but on larger powerheads, the force of the larger propellers forces the magnet to wear against the bushing inside the powerhead...and this is where the noise comes from. Since this is something that the powerhead mfg's never planned on, the occurance or probability of one powerhead humming more or less than another is almost random depnding on the model. The MJ400 I have running a dumas 1.25" prop is dead silent, but even the small Aquaclear Mini Pump/HiSpec1000/10 makes a small buzzing with any prop. The strength of the magnets on the larger AC402 and 802s seems to prevent this friction from happening (tha magnet has a strong pull on the motor to prevent the impeller/magnet assembly from ever being pushed back all the way), but depending on what the largest prop I find that will run on it...this one might still make noise with a large enough prop.
And it might be a catch-22 thing too, because if the prop is big enough to pull the magnet out (to hit the stop) it may very well be also big enough to push it back too.

I remember reading in another thread, I think it was BullDZR or something like that, people were talking about using a teflon washer on the bottom to help with the wear. May it also help with noise?

[Roland Jacques]

[i]<

Where do I start? [/B]

start at the first page of this thread 4th posting down. by the master dhnguyen

[crypto]

quangtam7, that looks trick. how did do the cross brace like that?

[quangtam7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7224442#post7224442 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
That's awesome quangtam7. How are you attaching the hood on the pump?
Just slide it in
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/tamhoabao/streamer3.jpg

[reefrubble]

What did you use to make the front housing? Ted

[reefrubble]

What did you use to make the front housing? Ted

[reefrubble]

quangtam7, What did you use to make the front housing? Ted

[reefrubble]

Boy how many times did I hit that button????

[hahnmeister]

ejmeier, I am interested in the teflon washer idea. Any specifics on what kind/model/type is being used? I think it would help the pumps in the long run.

[shelburn61]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7217245#post7217245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rothie
For those of you that have problems with the MaxiJet mod-the prop jumping in and out and unable to correct the directioin of the spin-
I have an MJ1200 with a Dumas 1 1/2" prop that did this and I tried all means to correct it.I finally changed the prop out with a dual Dumas 1 1/4" prop and it works great,each time,every time.There are still noise problems(my Maxi 900 dual prop is silent).I'll work on that next.

I have a mj 1200 with dual nitros that now has this problem after running beautifully for a month. Has anyone figured out what the causes are for this? Prop too big, pump too weak...?

[Bug_Power]

I just put on a single 1.75 prop andhave had no problems. I don' know if I'd put it in any of the tanks you have listed though as 2 in my 180 is ALOT of flow. I have a hard time keeping the sand from blowing around.

[03LightningSVT]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/586/110972MaxJetP.JPG Great thread:) I made a pair and both are working flawlessly:D after 2 months. No noise, no vortex, no rod issues, no vibration and starts in the correct direction everytime! For the mount, I just reconfigured (with a little heat) the factory supplied clip and it works great. Max Jet 400, single Nitro Hammer prop, graphite shaft and 1.5" schedule 80 PVC shroud. http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/586/110972MaxJetA.JPG

[want2reef]

Nice job.

Looks like you do it for a living.

[Barto]

03LightningSVT,
sweet looking work. what size prop & what sort of flow do you think you're getting from the 400's?

[mtbetta]

I have a 900 with dual nitros. It worked great for a month but now won't change directions when restarted, any ideas.

[quangtam7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7228721#post7228721 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefrubble
quangtam7, What did you use to make the front housing? Ted
Here is old thread I created 7-8 months ago (there is sideway flow too), everything (incl brace) was cut by tile saw. You can get an bunch of graphite rods out of a kite at Walmart for $2.99.
DFWMAS-DIY (http://www.dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=12424&sid=6d11a0e33d4dc52e4e9e3274b9c66d35)

[reefrubble]

quangtam7, I thank you very much. Ted

[Rothie]

03LightningSVT-
That is really nice.Do you have a pic showing the rigid tube connecting to the magnet on the Maxi 400?

[ejmeier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7229623#post7229623 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shelburn61
I have a mj 1200 with dual nitros that now has this problem after running beautifully for a month. Has anyone figured out what the causes are for this? Prop too big, pump too weak...?
I think it might be both of those things, and maybe the pump is just aging, I'm not sure. It seems that the continual popping in and out of the propeller is a key symptom of an oversized prop. That's exactly what my 802 & 402 does when I put the big 50mm 4-blade prop on them. Same with the MJ900.

At first, I thought that the propellers weren't very burdensome/stressful to the powerhead, but I'm beginning to rethink that. I intially reasoned that it was akin to putting backpressure on the pump - like using a MJ for a circulation pump. (Which I have done numerous times, BTW) That's all well and good for a standard impeller, where the flow would simply be decreased if the pump were to slowly get weaker. But in our situation, if there is not enough energy to spin the propeller with a certain amount of force, it basically shuts down completely. In other words, we were already close to the edge with a big prop, and now it is being pushed over that limit.

Its common when you are trying to get every ounce of efficiency out of something, (like overclocking PCs), to keep pushing it to its limit, until it fails and can't go any further. Then, once you find out its limits, to BACK OFF some from the max.

But, we don't like to do that with this mod though. :D

BTW - Hahn, they have 3/16" ID teflon washers, surpirsingly right on towerhobbies.com, I think Prather makes them. They are rear thrust bearings, exactly what we want to use them for too. Otherwise, for a more exact fit, the link below has some 1/8"ID by 3/8"OD washers for a reasonable price as well. I might try them out later on this week.

http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/wtfa.cfm

[Steph1643]

The only prop I could find was dumas 1.75 bronze at towerhobbies.com any one have a link to it.

Thanks Nick

[03LightningSVT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7231951#post7231951 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rothie
03LightningSVT-
That is really nice.Do you have a pic showing the rigid tube connecting to the magnet on the Maxi 400? Thanks everyone for your comments regarding my workmanship. This pic shows how I attached the rigid tube to the magnet. On a lathe at work, I placed the magnet in a collect and removed the two drive ears, then I pressed in a plug of Delrin, and finally I drilled and reamed the hole for the rigid tube. http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/586/110972prop.JPG

[03LightningSVT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7231301#post7231301 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by want2reef
Nice job.

Looks like you do it for a living. Thanks! Yeah it's kinda nice to be able to enjoy (work on) your hobby during lunch break:D

[03LightningSVT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7231314#post7231314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BigSkyBart
03LightningSVT,
sweet looking work. what size prop & what sort of flow do you think you're getting from the 400's? Thanks! 1.250" Nitro Hammer Prop from Tower Hobby. As for flow, I can only guess 4-500 GPH. When I first did the mod, I placed it in my tank with my other stock MJ400 and by sight and feel the mod kicked butt by a huge margin. Alot more flow in a much wider pattern.

[Rothie]

Very nice!Thanks for the pic.

[dvanacker]

Hey guys,

I did this mod with my MJ900. I used a 2" to 1.5" adapter and a dumas 1.75" prop.

My problem is it only starts under water sometimes....it always starts when I pull it out though. And if I leave it running for a while under water sometimes it just stops.

I used my mitre saw and cut as many slots as I could for intake. Does a 900 just not have enough juice for a 1.75" dumas?? Had anybody been able to achieve this??

Im including a pic.

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/3012/medium/mini-IMG_1441.JPG

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/3012/medium/IMG_1440.JPG

[brians_224]

Thanks for your time.

After seeing a working mod at my local reef club meeting I was inspired to give this mod yet another try.

This attempt is my best attempt yet. But there is still one problem. If I slowly submerge the unit, it runs fine until its nearly completely under water at which point it flips into reverse. It will continue to run in reverse despite me jamming my finger into the prop(haven't installed my stop yet).

Any ideas?

[jpndave]

Has anyone done this propeller mod into a pipe? I would like to put the Power heads behind the rear wall rather than in the tank. I would appreciate the volume and efficiency of the propeller. Could the outlet be directed into a pipe and routed out from there. Possibly even through a Hydor? I'm sure that it would need to be a smaller propeller, possibly on a larger pump to overcome the resistance. I was thinking a MJ 900 and one of the smaller lower pitch props. I would think that sized appropriately, this mod (open or into the piped outlet) should be more efficient and run cooler.

Thanks,

Dave

[zapata41]

dv, cut more intake slots, i thnk you are restricting the pump thus why it doesnt run all the time.
Tim

[quangtam7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7234448#post7234448 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dvanacker
Does a 900 just not have enough juice for a 1.75" dumas?? Had anybody been able to achieve this??
Even mj 500 will run 1.75" dumas prop.
Here pics of no brace Tunze style streamer and new 2" housing I just finished for it.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/quangtam7/streamer4.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/quangtam7/streamer5.jpg

[dhnguyen]

Nice work quangtam7

How do you prevent the reverse spinning without a stopper?

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7234980#post7234980 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zapata41
dv, cut more intake slots, i thnk you are restricting the pump thus why it doesnt run all the time.
Tim

I second that as well. Clearly not enough inlet slots from the pics.

[quangtam7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7235554#post7235554 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
Nice work quangtam7

How do you prevent the reverse spinning without a stopper?

This particular one always spins right direction, but I made stopper anyway, just in case.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/quangtam7/streamer6.jpg

[conefree]

dvanacker,

where did you get the 2"x1.5" adapter? I was looking for something similar but not having any luck. Thanks

[conefree]

Thanks to everybody for sharing all of this information. I am currently gathering materials to build my own set. On a side note, I found another alternative to the .098" carbon fiber rod:



http://www.airgas.com/browse/product.aspx?Msg=RecID&recIds=349987&WT.svl=349987

edit: GRR the link doesn't work. Go to www.airgas.com, click on welding support equipment under welding products. On the next page, click on the tungsten picture about halfway down on the right side. Pick 3/32" as the diameter, and pure under the electrode material. There are multiple different choices, I chose the two pack


NO wear and tear, extremely rigid. Only downside is that they are a little pricey, but guaranteed to last for years without a scratch. My wedding band is made out of tungsten; I worked in a power house for the last couple of years and this thing came out without a scratch. I got some myself this morning.

[Aquaduck]

Your link doesn't take us to the product page. What is it?

[conefree]

Beat me to it on the reply lol. I just edited my original post to show how to get there.

3/32" pure tungsten electrodes, 7", pack of two

[conefree]

Better yet, do a part number search from the homepage for part number RAD64001972.

[Aquaduck]

Ah, I see now.

I bought a boat-load of 316 SS tig welding rods to do mine for $10. TIG rods don't have the flux coating on them. I figure I have enough to make 100 or so Maxi-mods. :D

[conefree]

lol yeah while I was at Airgas, I was checking out my options. It was either those, or a pound of 316 SS lol. SS was a little bit more flexible than the tungsten, and a pound would have left me enough to make about 200 mods heh :)

[impur]

I read on another board that you can get the graphite ones from a kite at Kmart. Cost $2.99 should be enough for 10-20 mods.

[conefree]

True, but while they are easy on the wallet, the graphite rods are going to suffer the same fate as the carbon fiber rods over time. One may last a little longer than the other, but they are both made of the same element (carbon) which is pretty soft and not very durable. I have nothing against them, as many people seemed to have great success with them. I just prefer to head off that issue before it becomes one.

[ejmeier]

Heh, I thought carbon was like the strongest element there is - aren't diamonds, carbide, etc just carbon?

Anyhow, I stumbled across a great hobby shop about 10mins away from where I live, and they have EVERYTHING. Carbon fiber, Octura props, Graupner props, teflon washers, just about everything I wanted. And ironically, they had the exact same graupner props in stock that I already have on mail-order. :lol:

Just a word of advice to those looking for props/etc: call every single hobby shop in the phone book. :D Chances are there will be a decent one near you, as I have just found out a little too late.

[dhnguyen]

Actually carbon fiber rods are just as strong and durable if not more so than stainless steel. The reason why some (myself included) opted to use stainless steel instead is because it costs less (per rod) and is smoother hence less resistance and noise.

Other than that there's no reason why you can't use CF or graphite rods for the mod.


D.

[conefree]

ejmeier you are a lucky guy. I just went to my local hobby shop and just asked if they had any boat props, let alone Octura or Graupner. He just giggled and said, "yeah right". :(

It's looking more and more like mail order heh.

[impur]

Yah its just another option for ppl looking for the rods. I couldn't find them locally, but i didn't call a welding supply shop either.

Good call ejmeier, i hit up my local hobby shop and emptied their supply of octura and dumas props, not to mention the plane wheels someone posted about previously to secure the rods with. Sadly they didn't have a lot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/DIY/P4150111.jpg

[Snarkys]

what are the teflon washers for ?

[Rothie]

the plane wheels someone posted about previously

impur-
I don't remember anyone posting about plane wheels.Could it have been on another thread?How do you use them to secure the rod?

[brians_224]

My prop seems to want to move up and down or in and out while it is running. I'm not talking at start up. I thought I read somewhere in these 120 pages how to fix this problem - but I can't find it.

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7240016#post7240016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rothie
the plane wheels someone posted about previously

impur-
I don't remember anyone posting about plane wheels.Could it have been on another thread?How do you use them to secure the rod?

It was mentioned here on the thread just a few pages before splitting.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=790770&perpage=25&pagenumber=32


D.

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7240117#post7240117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brians_224
My prop seems to want to move up and down or in and out while it is running. I'm not talking at start up. I thought I read somewhere in these 120 pages how to fix this problem - but I can't find it.


A few known causes

1. Not enough inlet slots
2. Propeller is too large or too aggressively pitched for the pump.
3. Old pump motor or impeller.
4. Rigid rod slipping foward and causing the propeller to hit the stopper.

If you post a pic of your mod it will help us help you so to speak :)


D.

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7239625#post7239625 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Snarkys
what are the teflon washers for ?


Some people have found that after some time, the plastic end nub of the maxijet magnet gets worn out from the force of the magnet and propeller. It was suggested that a washer be placed between the magnet and the rod's plastic end cap to prevent or minimize this wearing.


D.

[ejmeier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7240242#post7240242 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
Some people have found that after some time, the plastic end nub of the maxijet magnet gets worn out from the force of the magnet and propeller. It was suggested that a washer be placed between the magnet and the rod's plastic end cap to prevent or minimize this wearing.


D.
And also to give it a non-stick surface to glide on, theoretically reducing some of the noise. (Haven't tried them out yet, but at least they seem to fit well in the pump.)

FWIW, most uni-directional impeller pumps that I have seen use a thrust bearing in this same manner.

[brians_224]

Thanks for your post D.
I tried a different length shaft and it seems to work much better. Are you still using the red and black caps? They wont stay on my shaft - is this typical?

[dhnguyen]

If you're using stainless steel rods then no the caps will not stay on as is. What I actually do is put in a drop of glue into the cap to fill the gap in between the rod then everything is nice and tight.

If you're using CF rods then there's no need to do anything as it will fit on very tightly.


D.

[smells like fish]

TTT for RaveChild

[cozmo1]

I'm looking to purchase a couple of these already built. Does anyone have any that they are willing to sell?
Thanks

[Barto]

I don't think theses forums are for selling, perhaps a PM inquiry to some members might be more appropriate.
I'm not being critical, just my .02 to stay within RC guidelines.

[Aquaduck]

I don't see any harm in anyone asking. The trouble comes when someone replies in the open forum instead of using private messaging.

[Barto]

I agree with that.
Just didn't want a mod to come in with a warning for us.

[Snarkys]

I was under the impression that you could recommend a dealer of products as long as you are in no way affiliated with them and just another consumer pointing other consumers in the direction of a product/vendor that they liked.

[hahnmeister]

Hey, I offered to sell the mounts/shrouds (1.5" SCH80 PVC that had been routed for MJ's to fit on) for $5 a pop. Of course, I wasnt selling a product so much as a service to those who couldnt do that bit of machining on their own. It wasnt for profit though, but still it didnt seem to set off any alarms though.

[dhnguyen]

Still Hahn... Better safe than sorry. Lutz got the boot for selling his mods on here.

Not sure if semantics in regards to selling product or service matter much to the RC mods.


D.

[agarza]

If this "service" is allowed by PM I'm interested

[dvanacker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7240117#post7240117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brians_224
My prop seems to want to move up and down or in and out while it is running. I'm not talking at start up. I thought I read somewhere in these 120 pages how to fix this problem - but I can't find it.

My 1.75" dumas was doing the same thing. I switched it around and now its fine. Dont know if it was backward to begin with or its backwards now. But it works.

Just a question but what prop works well and has a better pitch then the 1.75" dumas. Preferably a 1.75" prop. Any suggestions??

[dhnguyen]

A 1.75" Dumas is about max for a Maxijet. There are better pitched propellers from Octura that are 1.77" but the MJ's won't be able to spin those.


D.

[hahnmeister]

I run 1445 octuras on my MJ1200s...no problem.

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7261727#post7261727 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
I run 1445 octuras on my MJ1200s...no problem.


Really... I couldn't get the 1445 to spin properly at all on a MJ1200 even without a shroud. And that on a brand new MJ1200 too.

Not all Maxijets are created equal I guess.


D.

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, I was showing it off at the recent reef club meeting. I have yet to find a shreoud big enough for little to no flow restriction though...perhaps my shrouds and their restriction on the intake side are partly the reason, as choking the prop a bit might cause just enough cavitation to free up its spinning. Who knows.

It could also be the shaft...Im using SS, and you are using CF if I remember correctly. The friction could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Oops. went back and checked...Im sorry...I double checked the model number...I meant to say 1440! I have a 1445 as well...got confused. Now that I got the model number right...

Its still a huge step up from the dumas 1.75" prop. The diameter might be slightly less, but the pitch more than makes up for it. I had it SxS with a SEIO 1500 at the meeting, and it blew over corals that the SEIO couldnt.

[dhnguyen]

Yeah 1440 and 1240 are no problems for MJ1200's Those are 1.57" props. You really think they're stronger than the 1.75" Dumas? They do put out a lot of flow but I don't know if they're stronger than the 1.75" per se. Of course this is all based on observation and feel as I haven't actually bag tested the 1440, 1240 against the 1.75" Dumas

[TheNaked Reefer]

well, what is the pitch on the dumas?

[dhnguyen]

a simple google search reveals this

http://www.dumasestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=72_74&products_id=532

[Blugobi]

dhnguyen,

Thans for all your help with the mods...They are working great!!!!!

[dvanacker]

Dang.....after a day of perfect operation my MJ900 with 1.75" dumas is starting to cavitate I think. It makes a loud noise and kind of starts and stops real quick......I have found it twice seized. Always starts up when I unplug it and plug it back in. What causes this??

Also is there any problems with balancing the props...someone mentioned this to me but I didnt know what he was talking about.

[TheNaked Reefer]

the octura 1440 is 1.57" diameter, pitched at 2.198...so that multiplies up to 3.45. The dumas is 1.75" with a 1.5 pitch that multiplies up to 2.6. The octura would seem to push more even though its smaller because of the extra pitch.

[dhnguyen]

I think that 2.1.98 pitch number is already after the multiplication

I have an Octura catalog and it states this

1440 dia. 40mm or 1.57" X 1.4 = pitch 2.198"

Not sure about the 1.5 figure for the 1.75" Dumas on whether that's after or before the multiplication though. If it's before than the Dumas is still king in terms of flow.


D.

[TheNaked Reefer]

Hmmm, a dispute in terminology. Ill have to get mine out and look at them myself.

It seems silly that hahnmeister got booted for offering to machine the mounts for people. I can think of many others that offer to make parts for people (Spazz for instance) that never get in trouble. $5? So what... he's asking for shipping.

[Frunkster]

Firstly sorry I have not posted in a while, been up to my ear's in it with the new set up & trying to implement the right size pump mod's for my underflow so I can get the new tank wet.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7270770#post7270770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TheNaked Reefer
Hmmm, a dispute in terminology. Ill have to get mine out and look at them myself.

It seems silly that hahnmeister got booted for offering to machine the mounts for people. I can think of many others that offer to make parts for people (Spazz for instance) that never get in trouble. $5? So what... he's asking for shipping.

:rolleyes: hahnmeister booted off??????????:mad2:

It's NOT his fault!

I was the one that asked him if he could make the joining end for me as I was struggling to make one with the tool's I have, so if the BB wants to throw someone off do it to me (like I'm bothered!)

This is bang out of order IMO!:mad2:

Any idea where I can find the hahnmeister?? as I would like to stay in touch over the AQ's.

I now have all the size AQ's fully working with max prop sizes & pitches now known & have also made a IMO good attempt at a Maxi jet mod with one of those funky air guards.

I will not post any more till this issue is sorted with HM, I am going to contact the admin/mod's & try to straighten this out.

May be by by from me then?, keep up the good work in my absence guy's ;)

[Frunkster]

Firstly sorry I have not posted in a while, been up to my ear's in it with the new set up & trying to implement the right size pump mod's for my underflow so I can get the new tank wet.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7270770#post7270770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TheNaked Reefer
Hmmm, a dispute in terminology. Ill have to get mine out and look at them myself.

It seems silly that hahnmeister got booted for offering to machine the mounts for people. I can think of many others that offer to make parts for people (Spazz for instance) that never get in trouble. $5? So what... he's asking for shipping.

:rolleyes: hahnmeister booted off??????????:mad2:

It's NOT his fault!

I was the one that asked him if he could make the joining end for me as I was struggling to make one with the tool's I have, so if the BB wants to throw someone off do it to me (like I'm bothered!)

This is bang out of order IMO!:mad2:

Any idea where I can find the hahnmeister?? as I would like to stay in touch over the AQ's.

I now have all the size AQ's fully working with max prop sizes & pitches now known & have also made a IMO good attempt at a Maxi jet mod with one of those funky air guards.

I will not post any more till this issue is sorted with HM, I am going to contact the admin/mod's & try to straighten this out.

May be by by from me then?, keep up the good work in my absence guy's ;)

[dhnguyen]

where does it say that hahnmeister was booted?

Nevermind I see it now. Hmmm something out of order indeed.


D. :confused: :eek2:

[redpaulhus]

Under his name is "moved on"... :(

[Barto]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7272060#post7272060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
where does it say that hahnmeister was booted?

Nevermind I see it now. Hmmm something out of order indeed.

D. :confused: :eek2:

Maybe it had something to do with the new hairdo, or perhaps it was just easier being green :lol:

Hopefully it will all sort out.
Does anyone know if it's possible to petition the RC Admin staff for a reinstatement? (or review?)
hahnmeister's input and creativity was an asset to this and many other threads.
I'm on board with that!(petition for reinstatement)

[reefrubble]

I may have to find someone to do this thing for me. I did the mod,and the flow sucks. The thing runs fine,and the stop works. It starts in the correct direction every time. It's the flow that isn't good. At about 6" ,you can't feel a thing. maybe I need to make the slots larger. Ted

[reefrubble]

I removed every other rib,what a difference. Now the shroud spins off.

[Rothie]

Great news,reefrubble-

[zapata41]

i think that ppl that support RC, pay them every year should be able to protest crud that happens like this. who makes the rc staff god. i pay them and feel that i too should have a say in things that they do. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr , well i just finished my AC70 mod, not really inpressed since i had to cut the prop down so much to get it to start underwater eveytime. running a dumas prop on it makes it start everytime and yields about the same amount of flow, so why even use it. i am gonna junk out the ac70 and get some mj1200 to do the job, and the ac70 is way too big for my liking. the whole reason that the mj1200 is soo coold is that it gives you tunze like flow and is way smaller.

very mad Tim

[reefrubble]

Thanks Rothie, Now I have to work on skinning my stand. Ted

[humboldt reefer]

I just finished building one of these so far it works great. Aside from the shroud which seems to cut the flow in half. Here are a couple of pics. Any suggestions?
Its a 2" x 1.5" abs reducer. I spent about 2 seconds making this thing on the table saw just to see how it was going to work. I've since ground the lip on the 1.5" side. and it helped but not much. Dose the prop need to be flush with the end of the shroud?

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Unit00/Fish_tank_stuff_022.sized.jpg

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Unit00/Fish_tank_stuff_024.sized.jpg

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Unit00/Fish_tank_stuff_025.sized.jpg
http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Unit00/Fish_tank_stuff_026.sized.jpg

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Unit00/Fish_tank_stuff_027.sized.jpg

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Unit00/Fish_tank_stuff_028.sized.jpg

[smjtkj]

Ryan, Try extending the prop out to thr front edge of the slots.
I had the same issue and this made a huge difference.
Mike

[humboldt reefer]

I'll have to wait till tomarow to hit up ACE. I'm out of the recuders now. When I tried shortening the shroud I ended up busting most of the teeth off.

[smjtkj]

No I mean extend the shaft to bring the prop further out.
Mike

[humboldt reefer]

Well as it is right now the prop sits flush with the front of the slots. Do you mean the back of the prop?

[Zephrant]

In general, this is how a user gets banned:

The member violates one or more of the rules, and is contacted by the Staff or a Moderator. The user then chooses one of these options:

A: Says "I didn't know, and I'm sorry".
B: Says "That's a stupid rule, but I'll follow it now that you caught me."
C: Says "You blankity_blank_blanks can go stuff it!"
D: Says nothing, then goes and does the same thing again.

In cases A and B, that is the end of it. The user remains a member of the board. In cases C and D, the user usually gets another warning (unless they go off the deep end). If they ignore the warnings, they are "moved on" and an email is sent to them with a note that spells out the conditions they can return under.

At that point the ban is temporary- all the user has to do is:
E: Apologize to the moderator/staff they harassed and promise not to get out of hand again. Then they are allowed back on.

Some users chose option F:

F: Get banned, then instead of the above, they sneak back under a new name.

In this case, when they are found, they are immediately banned again. This repeats until the user exercises option E:.

There is no way to return to the board without exercising option E.

So I won't comment on the "hahnmeister" directly as that is against our policy, but I will say he falls in to the above matrix someplace and it is completely up to him to get the ban lifted.

Petitioning the Staff for a reversal without option E being exercised is fruitless. If people can't behave and at least apologize when they mess up, they are not wanted around RC.

Thank you all for your support, and your desire to keep RC as the biggest and best board on the net.

Zeph