No skimmer needed?

[oicu2]

Hi everyone,

I have a 75 gallon that I am setting up. Just purchased a mud sump system. I was told by my lfs that I didn't need a skimmer. He said a mud system does a good job of filtering and that skimmers are used with larger tanks that have a lot of fish in them. Is this true? Just want to be sure I have my facts right.

Thanks,

Katherine

[s3aL]

A skimmer is always advisable no matter what other kind of filtration you have. What you need to do is stop listening to your LFS ;) .

[sasa311]

detto....
Always use a skimmer.... Bigger the better :D

[dandydan]

I was told exactly the same thing, Ecosystems must have brainwashed all these lfs.

For a month with an MCE600, it hasnt stopped pulling gunk out, so I am now gradually dumping the 'miracle' mud and going to a DSB but keeping the caulerpa.

[old salty]

One of the nicest tanks I have ever seen was skimmerless. I guess it can go either way. I used the Ecosystem method for four months with nothing but excellent results. I set up a skimmer and the water became much clearer. A few of my SPS corals really colored up afterwards. I still use the mud though.

[Daytymer]

I'm all for a skimmer. Mine still pull's out gunk that looks like raw sewage.

[salty444]

you can run skimmerless if you want to change half your water every week.

[dwdenny]

http://www.reefs.org/library/members/e_borneman_120898.html here is a good read if you are interested in going skimmerless. I know it is older but I think Eric still does it. My 40g breeder will be skimmerless as a matter of fact my FOWLR was skimmerless as well. I bought a sea clown for it but never got it to wrok correctly and pull skimmate so I was vertulay skimmerless. lol HTH

[bassnman11]

Just remember, that guy at the LFS was probably working at Burger King last week!!

[bergzy]

if i can just save a few souls from the dark side:

Miracle Mud Analysis (http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/MManalysis.html)

[dandydan]

Yup I saw that, but all the local lfs, who just happened to sell miracle mud, swore blind they have not done any water changes in the last 65 years....
Have just been to another lfs, - same thing perfect looking display tanks, not even yellowed water from the calaurpa which Im sure everyone gets, unless using carbon.
I reckon they do a 50% water change every night, lol

[russ49merc]

no do some research to the ecosystem website ecosystem (http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/)
and you will see that you don't need one. I just tore my skimmer out of my tank to go to a ecosystem type setup. NO SKIMMERS NO SKIMMERS:eek1: NO SKIMMERS:eek1: NO SKIMMERS:eek1: NO SKIMMERS:eek1: NO SKIMMERS:eek1: NO SKIMMERS

skimmers do more harm than good

[dwdenny]

Russ not sure about that statement "skimmer do more harm then good" That is out there. If you want to run skimmerless you just have to manage the system. A skimmer is a good investment for those that know they are going to overload the tank or when you begin to overload and need to reduce organics. HTH

[reefnetworth]

where is the giant skimmer in the ocean? some agree its the beach due to the fact they work i simular ways. air+water= foam. ok can someone tell me where the foam goes? back into the ocean after its filtered by the sand. remember the tide rises and falls. the sand has billions of bacteria that thrive on this. just like your tank. my signature shows my tanks. 7 in all if you count the sump.
each has a DSB 3-4"and 1-1.5 lbs LR per gallon. i have had for 16 years in my tanks, never had a crash. only one skimmer is used during cycle then its removed. nature does its course. once a week i add H2o only for intro of vitamins and minerals absorbed by corals. i do use carbon filters for the reson they were designed. NH3/NH4 (ammonia) i change filters bi-weekly.

[reefnetworth]

so if you remove your bacteria every week through water change it doesnt have time to react as it normally does in nature. my current readings in the most coral pact tanks are as of 4-23-06.
Ca2=430 pH=8.3 ALK=2.1 NO2=.00 NO3=.07 NH3/NH4=.10 this is almost identical for all my tanks skimmerless. with no more than 1" per 5 gallons. (fish) its your money and your tank. overload in nature means somebody is becoming dinner. thin the heard in your bio-world. to many fish, buy more stuff. or do it like it is in reality.
man has to keep on till he destroys it all, just for his own satisfaction. not as it was intended to be. im not "preachin" just understanding the truth without changing it to please myself..

[twon8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7237983#post7237983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nano4brains
where is the giant skimmer in the ocean? some agree its the beach due to the fact they work i simular ways. air+water= foam. ok can someone tell me where the foam goes? back into the ocean after its filtered by the sand. remember the tide rises and falls. the sand has billions of bacteria that thrive on this. just like your tank. my signature shows my tanks. 7 in all if you count the sump.
each has a DSB 3-4"and 1-1.5 lbs LR per gallon. i have had for 16 years in my tanks, never had a crash. only one skimmer is used during cycle then its removed. nature does its course with 25% H2o change once a month only for intro of vitamins and minerals absorbed by corals. i do use carbon filters for the reson they were designed. NH3/NH4 (ammonia) i change filters bi-weekly.

just because it can be done doesn't make it a good idea.
if you had a 1oo gallon display with a fifty million gallon sump i imagine you could go without a skimmer no problem. the ocean doesn't have a skimmer but it does have a large amount of natural filtration relative to the life in it that we cannot begin to replicate to scale in our small tanks.

i ran skimmerless for almost 2 years(a nonworkign excalibur), and as soon as i put on a good skimmer my water got clearer, growth took off, and now i change water much less frequently with better overall results. i change maybe 10% a month and when i do the water is clear in the bucket, making me wonder if i needed to change water.

[dandydan]

Each to their own,
I have seen fabulous tanks with and without skimmers.
Maybe some of us that use skimmers cant get the hang of not overfeeding, but I cannot go to a suppliers web site who is not there except to make profits and take what he has to say as gospel.
We can all try and duplicate the natural reef, but there is absolutely no way we can dilute the pollution and unwanted chemicals as happens on any reef.

[russ49merc]

here it is this was my sump now it's a refugium with 20lbs of ecosystem mud

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/74952IMG_0874.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/74952IMG_0868.jpg

where the water enters the system it's about 30lbs of live rock rubble

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/74952IMG_0870-med.jpg

[russ49merc]

this was my original refugium that i converted into a frag tank

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/74952IMG_0871.jpg

and this is the tank not the best pic but a little more grow out and then i produce more of a close up.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/74952IMG_0875.jpg

:bum: :smokin: :bum: :smokin: :bum: :smokin:

[twon8]

why don't you wait to post success pics for a year or so. you telling everyone going skimmerless worked for you is kind of misleading when you just took the skimmer out.

and i feel it is a commonly held belief on reefcentral that the miracle mud is worthless as kitty litter.

[russ49merc]

whatever i post pics cause people ask me to man this sure is a tuff croud.

yes I'll wait another year before i post pics thanks man

[dwdenny]

Russ great pics. Keep us updated on the tank. Very interesting. The key is not over feeding and keeping an eye on your system it had been said I dont know how many times all ready. My next tank will be skimmerless just for the challenge. Low bioload on fish and plenty of corals to help filter the water as well. I hope it works the way I plan. lol

[russ49merc]

yes i have control of my feeding as long as my wife doesn't feed.

My father always said a hungry fish is an active fish.


Thank you