Clowns Fighting

[OkiNano]

Hi everyone, I have a 37g AGA with 2x65watt PC lighting, along with a refugium/protein skimmer combo with 26 watts of PC lighting over that. The tank has been up for little over a month now. Well, I bought a small oscellaris 2 weeks ago and put him in with my 2 chromis, and everything was doing well. Then 3 days ago I went to my LFS and they had 1 picasso percula in stock. So I couldn't resist so I spent 50 bucks and got it. When I finally acclimated him to the tank everything was fine, then the next day the oscellaris was chasing him all around the tank! The oscellar is about 1.5'' or less and the percula is maybe an 1/8'' bigger. The percula tries to avoid the oscellaris but it still goes after it. The LFS guy said its just establishing dominance. I don't know what to do:( my mom loves the oscellaris who is acutally very reddish in color but I like the picasso percula because he goes in my new BTA and he was more expensive. Any advice or help would be much appreciated! Thank you everyone:)

P.S. do anenomes always look unhealthy in the dark but perk up during the daylight hours (when the lights are on) because he is eating well.

[angelsj247]

i though clowns shouldnt be mixed because they really dont get along unless its there own species?

[OkiNano]

yes, you maybe right, I thought the oscellaris would be ok with the percula because they are known to be peaceful fish. I have the oscellaris my QT tank to allow the percula to at least check out the 37g to get a feel for things and to see if it returns to the anenome. Anyone have any ideas on what to do?

[stykthyn]

it almost sounds like both fish have already become female. if it were me, i would keep the 2 seperate and find a smaller companion for the picasso. those are just too rare to pass up. 50 bucks is a great deal for one.

[OkiNano]

Yeah, I've heard they're rare, do you know how much they go for? and do they really look different than regular perculas when they mature. I put the oscellaris in an intank refugium but it makes me sad to see him that way. I'm almost tempted to go out and get a tank just for him. How big of a tank would I need for just a little oscellaris? Thanks everyone

[OkiNano]

Also, what kind of filtration woud I need for him...it would be just him and maybe a shrimp or crab. Could I do a Aqua Clear HOB and just remove the carbon and run that? and a small powerhead or 2? I'll tank some rock and sand out of my 37g. Any advice or opinions would be great...trying to keep this as cheap as possible for now, i'll probably do a cheap PC or even florescent light because they'll be no corals in his tank.

[OkiNano]

Anyone? Any suggestions ......Thanks:)

[stykthyn]

a 10 should be fine for the false perc. take the water from your 37 and fill the 10. the HOB filter should be enough movement. If you can use the the filter media from your current tank to start the small one. once the tank cycles you can add a few cleaner shrimp and another false perc for it if you like. they can live their whole lives in a 10 gal.

[OkiNano]

Do you think I could use the aqua clear that puts out 150gph of flow? Would that be enough or should I go bigger? Because if I make this a FOWLR tank this won't be very expensive at all.

[stykthyn]

that should be more than enough

[OkiNano]

Thanks Styklyn, I really appreciate your help

[OkiNano]

another question...whats the minimal lighting I would need to keep a FOWLR tank with the clown in it?

[dantodd]

First of all it is VERY UNLIKELY that the fish have reached sexual maturity by this age. If either of the fish came from a community tank (with other clowns) then they have absolutely NOT turned male or female.

The picasso's colors will not change significantly between now and when you get him home. You can run a google search for a picture of what a picasso is supposed to look like.

Most likely they are just establishing dominance like the LFS said.

I am concerned about the anemone though. The lighting on the tank is pretty much bare minimum to keep an anemone. Be sure to feed him heavily in this environment. I'd try to double the lights if possible. If you can't then make sure you are running all daylight bulbs, this will increase the PAR a little bit compared to running 50/50s.

[Evyllchyld]

OkiNano, I believe they are establishing dominance also. BUT the problem is there size. Usuaslly you want to get two significantly different sized clowns when you are going to add them, to keep fighting at the min. I had the same problem as you. My two percs got so bad that I almost had to get rid of one because the smaller one was getting torn to bits. One of his fins was feathered, 3 days later it healed, then another one was all feathered, then that healed... then a chunk was missing out of the dorsal of the smaller one. I decided that if anymore damage was done that I was going to get rid of the larger one. I felt really bad. I believe that there is a chance they will fight untill one is dead because they may both try to be the more dominant one (someone please correct me if i'm wrong about that). If you get two, where there is a good size difference then there can be very little to no fighting before one tells the other who is boss.

I also agree with dantodd about the anemone. My father has gone through 3 anemones so far, he has 5watts per gallon in a 75g tank, and I personally don't think thats enough. I've told him many times that its not enough, but since one person at petco told him it was enough he doesn't want to listen to me. I think doubling the light would be awesome :D

Just my 2 cents


-Brian

I forgot to add, that my 2 clowns faught for a solid week to a week and a half. I was able to watch them ALL day since I work at home, and would break up the really severe fights. I've had them about a month to a month and a half now, and about once a day the female will jet towards the male, and the male will be really submissive.

[OkiNano]

Thanks Evylcyld and dantodd, I'll def. take your advice about the anenome and keep a close watch on him. As far as the clowns go, do you think the perc and the oscellaris will be ok together? Or should I go ahead and finish my Fowler tank for one of them? Thanks everyone

[OkiNano]

thats what my percula does the oscellaris, it tries to cower away and hide but the oscellaris is pretty unrelenting. I have the two seperated in intake refugiums right now but i'll let them out tom. and see what happens...still working on the FOWLR but will see what happens.

[Evyllchyld]

Well by being submissive, I mean that my smaller one will start twitching and look like its having seizure. He'll stay right next to the larger one... and just keep twitching while the larger one looks at him and trys to chase him around.

[OkiNano]

yea, my percula was doing that tooo! is that a good sign or bad?

[OkiNano]

p.s. I'll be getting another 65watt PC this weekend dual daylight, its the only light that will fit on my tank, wanted to double my lighting but can't be done with the space i have, but i will be up to 200 watts

[dantodd]

definately an improvement light-wise.

It is a good thing when they shake like that. Please read the FAQ. It is posted in a thread at the top of this forum called "Anemone and Clownfish FAQs" or something like that.

[OkiNano]

thanks guys, but u guys do think my oscellaris and percula can actually get along even though they are different species?

[Evyllchyld]

I believe so, I could be wrong but isn't the only difference is an ocellaris is tank raised (false perc) and a percula a true perc??? To me it would just make sense that it would work! I'm *THINKING* it would work but I have nothing to base that on...... So I honestly don't know, maybe someone else can answer this.

[dantodd]

They are different species but they are probably the most common cross-species pair in captivity. I wouldn't worry too much about it. They are very similar species and their submissive activity is the same. It seems that most often cross-species pairs fall apart when the submissive behavior is not easily understood.

[OkiNano]

alright everyone...well I kept the agressive oscellaris in solidary confinement aka intank refugium for 4 days and released him friday night. The two clowns have gotte n along ever since. So i'm keeping my fingers crossed and would like to thank everyone who helped me out.

[Evyllchyld]

Thats awesome :) the intank refugium is actually a really good idea... they can interact without being able to fight.... Congrats! :D

[stykthyn]

good deal

[OkiNano]

yes, the intank refugium allowed the two to see each other at all times. The percula who was left in the main tank actually began swimming up with the oscellaris in the refugium and after I released the oscellaris they swam around the tank with each other quickly, darting back and forth but have never seem them really go at it since. Everything is still working out well!