How large is to large?

[jjmcat]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/jjmcat/2006_0426Image0001.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/jjmcat/2006_0426Image0004.jpg

To give you an idea the favia in the pic is almost 5 in. wide.Id say hes alomst 2 ft. long.

[oddballs]

that is pretty large!!!!

[SweetFawn]

OMG that thing is a monster!!!!

[sarai826]

Wow... I nominate him for the Guiness book of reef tanks....

[Travis L. Stevens]

I remember when he was probably under 12" long. He sure has grown!

[naterd1976]

WOW. That is huge. That is a bristle worm correct?

[oddballs]

I could be wrong but from his coloration i think he is a fireworm not a bristleworm.

[Snprhed]

Jarrod, If it is a fireworm they are clam predators so watch out!

[jjmcat]

Its grey in color so im not sure.

[quaz]

what do you feed that thing?

[jjmcat]

baby mice

[oddballs]

if it is grey you need to get it OUT !

[keckles]

Jarrod, search for Hermodice carunculata. This is the true "fireworm". It is an Atlantic species, and is not seen as commonly and people make it out to be. Although your specimen is quite large, I do not believe you have a true fireworm. Its body structure, especially in and around the setae, is very different from that of H. carunculata. I'm not saying you won't see any negative effects; I'm just saying that this class is almost exclusively composed of detritivores/filter feeders.

The live, baby mice should do wonders for you :thumbsup:

[keckles]

Hermodice carunculata
http://coralsphere.com/usfireworm1.jpg

I don't think having grey color is an indication of it being a specific predator. Every example I have seen has been grey.

[keckles]

By the way, the topic of grey coloration was only meant to help Jarrod in identification and in no way bash Scott from Aquarium Oddballs.

We all know you're a stinkin' genius, Scott. :thumbsup:

[oddballs]

im going by the explanation on pg 172 173 in Calfo and Finners Reef Invertabates.it shows 3 species and 2 out of the 3 are bad worms this one looks like Hermodice sp . which is the indo pacific fireworm not sure but could be??genius thats really pushing it!!lol
thanks for the compliment.

[keckles]

I believe that Hermodice is an Atlantic, specifically Carribean, genus. Or, at least that is what Mr. Calfo and Mr. Fenner seem to be saying in their book.

I find the book to be slightly contradictory in the fact that in one section they consider the "larger, more predatory specific" polychaetes to be "fireworms". However, in a following section they say that those species of Hermodice are the true "fireworms". These worms are found abundantly throughout the reefs of the world. So, which are the true examples; all polychaetes which are larger and "ugly" or those of the Atlantic Hermodice spp.? I guess it depends on which page you read.

I would give direct quotes, but I don't have the book handy.

A different source:

Reef Invertebrates by Dr. Ron Shimek

Ron gives a two page generalization of bristleworms on pages 224-225. This is quite a generalization of organisms coming from the largest and most diverse class of Annelid roundworms. However, so is the Reef Invertebrate generalization of having three pictures to describe a class of roughly 10,000 species ranging from the tiniest feather duster to the largest 10ft. worm.

Dr. Shimek gives reference of two common examples of these worms.

1. Eurythoe spp.
This is the beneficial scavenger of the goup; the nice guy on the playground that just wants to help out. But, sadly all the other kids criticize him because of his bad looks. Poor guy. :(
It is found abundantly throughout the ocean (easy to obtain with that much coverage) and reaches a length of 18" (which is both larger than the dreaded man-eating fireworm and larger than what Mr. Calfo and Fenner would tell you in their book).

2. Hermodice, specifically Hermodice carunculata:
This is the man-eating, fire-breathing dragon worm of the group. This worm is predatory to many desirable tank inhabitants, feeding on what it wants, when it wants. Guard your children. It reaches a sissy length of 12" (a mere 2/3 of the "common" bristleworm).
Dr. Ron goes on to say that it is both smaller than Eurythoe and is not common to be found or reproduce in aquariums like the common bristleworm. Now, whether this is for Hermodice spp. or H. carunculata he does not say. But, because of their location and requirements to be closely related enough to be classified in the same genus, these must be common traits amongst all. If its location is true, it would seem that it would be very difficult to obtain. The availability of rock from TBS would make this more common, thouhg. But, it is still said in both books to be very rarely seen in aquariums.

To be honest, I really don't want to have a worm debate or make myself out to be a jerk. But, this is one subject that is extremely misunderstood amongst aquarists. Working at a store, I can't tell you how many times I hear - "These little worms in my tank are destroying everything!" - Then, after a quick test we discover their water makes the Arkansas River look clean and they couldn't tell you what a "waterchange" is to save their life.

Jarrod has a lot of nice stuff in his tank and I don't want him tossing and turning at night worrying that this monster is going to feast on his prize posessions. It may be bad, it may not be. But, I don't think we are going to identify this thing as friend or foe from a few general pictures and descriptions from an aquarium hobbyist book.

Jarrod, I hope your stuff continues to do well. Your tank has matured extremely and your corals look awesome. :)

Scott, you are the freakin man and you know it. The term genius fits you well. For someone to know as much as you do about both fresh and saltwater while owning your own business and personally being their everyday to keep it running successfully is AMAZING. I have told you that before. You rock dude :thumbsup:

[jjmcat]

If i can catch the worm its yours jared.

[oddballs]

I agree that w/out shimek here we will probably never know the species name.

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7284665#post7284665 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oddballs
I agree that w/out shimek here we will probably never know the species name.

Actually, ask LeslieH, she is a literal expert with polychaete worms. You may need to get a close detailed shot of the head. As far as I can tell, it's not a Eunice sp, Hermodice sp, or a Oenone sp. They are the most commonly found, albiet still rare, predator polychaete in home aquariums. That doesn't mean that it isn't a predator though. Personally, if it was smaller I would say don't worry about it. But because it has gotten so big, I would just keep an eye on it. You've had it this long without any problems.