Why can't I place the skimmer after the fuge??

[Mr James]

If my refugium and skimmer are in the same sump, (sump is already built, but not filled), what harm if any would it be to have the skimmer after the fuge in the direction of the flow?? The sump is drilled and has baffles. I have not filled the tank yet because this is one of those things that sticks in the back of my mind to try and change, if necessary.

Diagram is something like this:

drain from tank --> baffle --> large fuge area --> baffle --> sponge (to reduce micro bubbles) --> skimmer area and return.

I may try to direct wateer from skimmer back into the fuge instead of dropping back into the return area, if that makes any sense at all.

Or

I could place the skimmer in the fuge area and just cut back on the fuge area a little bit. That would leave about a 1' x 1' area setting empty in the return area.

[mikeatjac]

The skimmer in the beginning helps get the organic material out before the refug. I guess your set up would work but it is kind of backwards and not as effective IMO.

[Agu]

You want the skimmer at the input side of the sump for two reasons.

You're skimming the "dirtiest" water and removing the most waste.

The bubbles from the skimmer need to dissipate before getting to the return pump.

[mm949]

i realy makes no dif.....i always use skimmer after fuge

#1....not sucking in plants & pods
#2....discharge back to fuge greater contact
#3....depending on skimmer less maintanance on venturi
#4....less detritus build-up in skimmer
#5....disapates bubbles
again this is my personal opinion...you may do whatever works for you...

[PatrickJ]

putting a skimmer after the fuge is dumb. dont do that.

[Drewcipher]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7339498#post7339498 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PatrickJ
putting a skimmer after the fuge is dumb. dont do that.

That's a useless comment.

If that is the way the sump is designed then who cares. Both the skimmer and fuge are there to export nutrients. The only reason not to do it would be the bubbles. If you can block bubbles from reentering the tank then you are fine. The added bonus is, as someone else mentioned, your fuge will do the hardest work and the skimmer might stay cleaner longer and need less maintenance.

[akrimmel]

anyone for a smoke mm949

[MCary]

A skimmer after the fuge will skim out your copepods.

[trmiv]

Yes, it does make a difference, a big difference. You want to skim the dirtiest water possible from your overflow for your skimmer to have the best chance to remove stuff BEFORE it has a chance to break down into the things that an algae refugium removes. Please see this thread (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=554786&highlight=protein+skimmer+production) which goes into great detail about why it's important to get your skimmer the rawest water possible.

[Mr James]

Wow, lots of good responses. I know the correct way is to have the skimmer before the fuge, but my circumstances won't allow it in an efficient manner. The skimmer is an ASM G3 and cannot set outside the sump, so that's out. I may try to place the skimmer before the fuge and make some sort of barrier between the two so I don't suck up sand and other things.

Hey, just came to me. The skimmer is a G3 and has the recirculating mod to it. What if the feed pump was placed in the drain area from the tank. HAH!! I think I just answered my own question. Swwwweeeeetttt!! I thought for sure I was going to drilling new holes here and there and moving baffles around.

[kappaknight]

Why don't you just turn the sump around?

[Mr James]

The return end of the sump has two holes drilled in the side, one for the return and one for another piece of equipment to be named later. The receiving end of the sump is a small area that has two drains in it from the tank. So I have to use the tank in the way it is set up.

[Rockfish]

Some of the current literature describe having raw water directed to the refugium first, where sand beds, algae, copepods have access to nutrients/food first. I wouldn't be too concerned about the pods, if the refugium has sand, rock or algae, pods will gravitate to those. If the refugium is gravity driven ,i.e overflows too another sump you should be in good shape. The water overflowing would then have mechanical filtration (sponge), chemical (carbon) and then skimmed before returning to the tank.

[Anemonebuff]

It may be a little better to have the skimmer first, but I doubt that the difference will be all that much. I think either way is fine.

[mthedude]

I've had my skimmer both befor and after my fuge and the skimmer produced more skimmate before the fuge, when it was after I'd find pods like crazy in the collection cup, when it's before the fuge I never find any.

[cchoffman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7339718#post7339718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MCary
A skimmer after the fuge will skim out your copepods.

I have a hard time believing a skimmer can remove a relatively complex thing (in relation to organic waste) like a copepods. If that were the case, why do people get ich. It is much simpler the copepods. I can understand it removing phyto , it is one step above organic waste, but copepods are multi-cellular creatures.

The only way it would be able to remove pods is by physical removal in the water or by getting killed in the pump.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7340277#post7340277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cchoffman
I have a hard time believing a skimmer can remove a relatively complex thing (in relation to organic waste) like a copepods. If that were the case, why do people get ich. It is much simpler the copepods. I can understand it removing phyto , it is one step above organic waste, but copepods are multi-cellular creatures.

The only way it would be able to remove pods is by physical removal in the water or by getting killed in the pump.

I've found copepods in my skimmer. THey get caught up in the bubbles and it kills them.


That being said, your skimmer removes things more completely, and quicker than a refugium does. The fuge is great, but it just reprocesses things. Get out what you can, have the fuge reprocess the rest.

[ToTaLCHaoS13]

I followed advice on this topic a few weeks ago and moved my skimmer intake to before the fuge which resulted in a huge performance improvement in the skimmer. I am now getting nearly double the organic matter!

[DaveG99]

I make my fuge / sumps like this and they work great

Damn you cant read it its too small. What do you expect for 1 minute drawing on ms paint. I will try to explain. The left side has the water coming from the tank and the skimmer. The middle is the fuge. The right side has the return pump in it. Simple and effective. All it takes is a tank and some plexiglass and silicone.


http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/daveg99/c0d3ee32.jpg

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7339877#post7339877 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr James

Hey, just came to me. The skimmer is a G3 and has the recirculating mod to it. What if the feed pump was placed in the drain area from the tank. HAH!! I think I just answered my own question. Swwwweeeeetttt!! I thought for sure I was going to drilling new holes here and there and moving baffles around.

That sounds like it would work. I would suggest that you also do the gate valve mod -- so that the skimmmer's output wont be so close
to your return pump -- otherwise you will have a TON of microbubbles.

[Mr James]

Hey Todd, I built the gate valve mod but have not tested it out yet. Do you totally control the level of the water with that gate valve?? Does one have it half open, 3/4 open or all the way, what is an example of how open the gate valve is??

[Toddrtrex]

I actually don't have the gate valve on mine, but how for open you have it is determined by how wet/dry you want to skim.
Think of how the that skimmer works without the mod, you would raise or lower the output pipe to adjust your bubble height within the skimmer. It acts the same, but with a lot more control.

Kind of a vague answer, but I hope it helps.

[Mr James]

I've never used this type of skimmer before. My experience is with Beckett style skimmers. I did put this G3 in a huge container full of live rock to test it out.

[Toddrtrex]

Ahhh, okay. Then, once you get it set up, you will have to "play" with the gate valve, and see what ends up working best for you. There are too many outside factors to be able to give you an exact answer.

[socalreefer73]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but what about the changing water levels in the last part of your sump due to evaporation. Will that not effect this skimmer? Won't you have to always keep that area topped off or adjust the skimmer daily?

[Mr James]

Someone else may need to respond, but I am hoping this skimmer isn't affected by water levels because it has the recirc mod.

[LobsterOfJustice]

If the skimmer is in the same compartment of the sump as the return pump you are going to get mad mircobubbles. You will need baffles in between the output of the skimmer, and the intake of the return pump.

[Mogrash]

Another benefit for having a skimmer before the fuge is that it is quite good at removing particulates (yes these can be the size of a copepod) from the water. By removing these larger pieces of detritus/excess food etc. it keeps these particulates from collecting in your refuge and rotting. Chaeto is really bad at trapping particulates (which might be an evolutionary benefit).

If the skimmer sits in water then it is affected by the water level assuming your input is in that same body of water. Now if you are drawing water from another container, that would be the body of water you need to worry about.

[Mr James]

The skimmer body will be setting in the return compartment. The feed line will either be tee'd off a drain or from a mini-pump located at the other end in the drain-from-the-tank section. I may even set the skimmer body up on a shelf within the sump for no reason I can think of at the moment. I do plan to put some sort of barrier between the skimmer and the return like a pile of live rock or something to help fend off the micro-bubbles.

[sjm817]

Most people dont have direct fed skimmers
Most people have way more flow from the return than needed.

That means only some of the water moving through the sump gets skimmed anyway. The rest goes right by the skimmer. In this case, it doesn't make much of a difference.

If you are direct feeding 100% of your drain water to the skimmer, then it might.

[LobsterOfJustice]

A pile of rock will not be enough. You will need baffles and space between the skimmer and return pump. Not trying to be annoying, just trying to save you major headaches later on.

[Mr James]

What I will probably do some time soon is to take a picture of the sump and post it possibly on this thread.

[tygger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7344176#post7344176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Most people dont have direct fed skimmers
Most people have way more flow from the return than needed.

That means only some of the water moving through the sump gets skimmed anyway. The rest goes right by the skimmer. In this case, it doesn't make much of a difference.

If you are direct feeding 100% of your drain water to the skimmer, then it might.

Exactly.

But with that being said, I have my skimmer before the fuge separated like this:

Skimmer ---> Return <--- Fuge