Ocellaris clownfish: wild or tank bred?

[pufferpoison]

i've been waiting to order from drsfostersmith.com for like 2 months to get a tank bred ocellaris clownfish, but they still haven't got any in. They do have the wild caught clowns in. what is the difference and does it matter which I go with?

[crsandoval]

There are articles on line that state wild caught are prone to disease from shipping stress. As for me I waited for tank bred and they have been wonderful. 6-9 months later they just spawned and host inside the ritteri.

[Hunter21]

It's more of a personal preference thing...but seems like the tank bred clowns are much hardier and healthier to begin with. I have a tank bred cinnamon clown and I've had him for over a yr. now. I owned a Royal gramma before the clown and he only lasted 2 monthes, and he was wild caught. plus you run the risk of introducing parasites into your tank if you decide to get a wild caught and don't QT him! like I said...more of a personal preference thing. hope this helps a little! :D

Erin

[AquaReeferMan]

I will agree that the tank-raised livestick is hardier and also has more of a personality then wild fish. I had a wild Fire Clown and that thing would go after me everytime I place my arm in the tank. Correct me if Im wong but this is what I thought. Amphirprion is the clown we are talking about. With Wild being Percula and tank-raised being Ocellaris. So if you are looking into the wild one it would be a Percula right? Or are you just looking into other wild clowns. In the last 2 years I bought 2 healthy Ocellaris clowns from That Fish Place. I will give you a link to order them from their if you want they cost $15.99. Good luck with your choice.

From home page look to left side and click on Aquatic Livestock
http://www.thatpetplace.com/main.aspx

[AquaReeferMan]

I always get conflicting information on that subject of those types of clowns.

[Hunter21]

I think he's wanting to know what the difference between a wild caught fish and a tank bred fish is! at least that's what I gathered from the post, could be wrong though! lol :D Erin

[dantodd]

Correct me if Im wong but this is what I thought. Amphirprion is the clown we are talking about. With Wild being Percula and tank-raised being Ocellaris.

Well, since you asked.

All clownfish except the maroon (but that may be fixed soon) are in the genus Amphiprion. The various clowns are all different species. Amphiprion ocellaris is often refered to as False Percula, Amphiprion percula are usually refered to as percula. Amphiprion melanopus is called a cinnamon clown while Amphiprion clarkii is a clark's clown or sometimes called sebae though Amphiprion sebae is not the same as A. clarkii. Common names can get confusing but ocellaris and percula are different species and you can have wild caught and tank raised versions of each. Percula come from Australia while ocellaris have a much wider distribution.

As for wild caught vs. captive bred fish. Always buy captive bred if available. They are healthier, less stressed, more likely to succeed in the home aquarium and do not cause further stress on the reefs. We already have to take a lot off of the reef because there is no other way to get them so let's tread as lightly as possible.

[Hunter21]

well said dantodd!!!! :D Erin

[AquaReeferMan]

Yeah thank you.

[dantodd]

well, I'll share some of my knowledge on clownfish for help in the kitchen next time I have questions! :)

[TGamel]

I aways try to purchase captive raised fish and corals whenever possible. As a scuba diver, I try to be aware of the natural ref environment and have noticed that it is slowly slipping away. In my limited experience, I believe that the tank and farmed raised marine animals tend to be more forgiving in the home aquarium. Obviously, however there are some fish that are not available as farm raised and must be caught in the wild in order to keep us all happy.

All of my clowns are 'false' as they are readily available at the LFS, tend to be really hardy, and IMHO, seem to have more personality so to speak than wild clowns.

[crsandoval]

I agree with TGamel. I attempt to purchase tank raised anything because they come from similar conditions.

Of the five wild coral colonies I have purchased over the years one has survived and barely at that. Once I asked questions and learned that both tank raised and wild exist I went with tank raised and have had much greater sucess.

[highflyer885]

I have had my wild caught Occelaris pair for about 10 years now, without any issues.
Yes they are aggressive ( the female at least, when they have eggs ) towards me when I get too close to their Anemone or eggs. They do not bother the other fish who have been with them almost as long. Had farm raised black and occelaris in my daughter's tank and lost them, replaced them, lost them again after 6 months-1 year each time.
So, if the wild ones were caught properly, eg. without cynide, then they are just as healthy, if not healthier. Plus they are perfect as there is less chance of inbreeding.
Anything that came from the ocean, fought for survival and made it is bound to be hardier than a farmed version. Just MHO.
Sadly I have to shut down my reef, but these will go to another person who I know, understands the value and how special these fish are. :)

[shifty51008]

wow a 10 year old thread back from the dead lol.

[ThRoewer]

wow a 10 year old thread back from the dead lol.

Well, much has changed in two years. The quality of tank bred clowns has most definitely gone down a lot.

[D-Nak]

Well, much has changed in two years. The quality of tank bred clowns has most definitely gone down a lot.

I couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately, it's forced those looking for nice looking, defect-free clowns to start looking at wild clowns again. The breeders who actually breed nice looking clowns typically breed designers to make a little money.

[ThRoewer]

Hopefully one day we see nice natural strain tank bred clowns commanding higher prices than those designer bastard mutants that flood the market today.
I still hope to see the day when all those crazy designer clowns get banned to the place they belong: the guppy section of Petco

[CoralsAddiction]

I don't need anymore clowns but recently saw a VERY nice pair of Picasso clowns, virtually deformity free. I almost bought them just for that reason.

[Winwood]

Well, since you asked.

All clownfish except the maroon (but that may be fixed soon) are in the genus Amphiprion. The various clowns are all different species. Amphiprion ocellaris is often refered to as False Percula, Amphiprion percula are usually refered to as percula. Amphiprion melanopus is called a cinnamon clown while Amphiprion clarkii is a clark's clown or sometimes called sebae though Amphiprion sebae is not the same as A. clarkii. Common names can get confusing but ocellaris and percula are different species and you can have wild caught and tank raised versions of each. Percula come from Australia while ocellaris have a much wider distribution.

As for wild caught vs. captive bred fish. Always buy captive bred if available. They are healthier, less stressed, more likely to succeed in the home aquarium and do not cause further stress on the reefs. We already have to take a lot off of the reef because there is no other way to get them so let's tread as lightly as possible.

This is 95% right except that A. percula has a wider distribution than just Australia including Papua New Guinea and Solomon Islands.

On the subject of CB clowns, with a lot of the other species such as maroons and clarkii types, I can usually spot CB ones a mile away. There is almost always something slightly off about them. With ocellaris it's much more difficult and I think a lot of the CB ones in the hobby today are a good representation of what you might see in the wild.

[ThRoewer]

It is likely because most captive bred ocellaris you find these days are from local hobby breeders or from breeders in the origin countries. Whatever clownfish comes from ORA is almost always feeder fish quality (maybe not even that since they may also carry diseases)

[Winwood]

It is likely because most captive bred ocellaris you find these days are from local hobby breeders or from breeders in the origin countries. Whatever clownfish comes from ORA is almost always feeder fish quality (maybe not even that since they may also carry diseases)

Could very well be. There are two species I regularly see that I am impressed with. 1 is ocellaris and the other is bicinctus. My only complaint with bicinctus is the color. Almost always bicinctus turn that ugly brown color the older they get. That may be more a function of the species though.

[ThRoewer]

Some of the other commercial breeders are not too bad - ORA is really the one to stand out in a bad way.

[Winwood]

I know a little shop I used to work at had a guy who bred local clowns and I was really impressed with his stuff. The regular ocellaris looked like wild clowns to me. I also see decent fish at my local Petco, which I believe get all their clowns from Sustainable Aquatics. I still see a lot of deformities in designer clown types and Darwin occellaris however. Of course some deformities are now considered desired traits these days, so I guess the issue has become quite muddy.

[Protoavis]

Unless you're breeding them there's no reason at all to wild caught and even then the argument for genetic diversity is kind of stretching things given how successful people have been with breeding for as a fair while now

[OrionN]

I am looking for nice clowns. Lately I am having problem with finding tank raised clowns with great shape. Last 4 clowns I bought two were tank raised and two were wild caught.
Before this last purchase, all my clowns for the last 15 years have always been tank raised.

I totally agree with D-Nak and ThRoewer regarding the quality of tank raised clowns these days.

[ThRoewer]

I know a little shop I used to work at had a guy who bred local clowns and I was really impressed with his stuff. The regular ocellaris looked like wild clowns to me. I also see decent fish at my local Petco, which I believe get all their clowns from Sustainable Aquatics. I still see a lot of deformities in designer clown types and Darwin occellaris however. Of course some deformities are now considered desired traits these days, so I guess the issue has become quite muddy.

I've bred ocellaris since the 80s and percula since the mid 90s and ocellaris always had less misbars and deformation.
Even in the wild you see very few abnormally colored ocellaris, but abnormally colored percula are quite common, especially among those from the Solomons and PNG.

Unless you're breeding them there's no reason at all to wild caught and even then the argument for genetic diversity is kind of stretching things given how successful people have been with breeding for as a fair while now

I simply want to know where my fish come from and what they actually are, especially with those I plan to breed with. The issue with tank bred clowns is that people have been doing it for so long without documenting lineage.

Documenting the lineage down to the river section a fish was caught is something quite common among serious freshwater fish breeders. This is not just done for fun but rather for conservation purposes - quite a few freshwater fish species exist these days only in captivity and are extinct in the wild.

As a result of the randomness in clownfish breeding most tank bred clowns are some undefined mish-mash of different local strains or even species.