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Danfish
05/15/2006, 07:41 PM
I'm some what new to the aquarium hobby, quite new compared to most experience I see from lurking here (great knowledge base!). I've been looking for a good forum to look for advice and as a Huntsville AL local this seemed a great place to start.

Currently I have a 65gal reef ready tank (wet/dry) I've been setting up slowly for the last month and a half. My funds are a bit tight so live rock and the better gear is slow to come.
Currently I have a rio 1700 pump in the sump, a maxi 1200 powerhead with a rotating tide nozle, in-sump protien skimmer, in return line UV sterilizer, and a rather weak florescent light.
On my wish list is the Coralife 36" lunar aqualight, and a RO/DI filter system, again funds are tight so they are down the road a ways.

I've been adding live rock as able, I'm up to about 20 pounds now but I want about 60 pounds more.
Also currently in the tank are 3 green chromis, a cleaner shrimp, and a few turbo snails.

My water seems pretty good, 0 ammonia/nitrite, ~0.25ppm nitrate, 8.3pH, 1.0235 spec grav, and 10dKH. That has been dead on steady now for about 2 weeks, with the exception of the dKH which I began testing around a week ago.

My plans for the tank is to eventualy make it a reef tank. That will naturaly have to wait on the new light kit and RO/DI filter. (currently I'm buying water)
I'd love to keep fish and corals, with the star fish being a regal tang. Other fish I'm hoping to add are a percula clown, possibly a gobbie, and later on if everything goes well and I can maintain the tank well enough a Mandrin Dragonet (I understand they are difficult to feed, which is why its my end goal as my skill improves).

This isn't my first tank, but it hopefully will be my first reef tank. I used to live in Orlando and didn't have a LFS willing to educate as well as sell, so the hobby never really took flight till recently.


Now for my problem.
I recently added a cleaner shrimp and 4 turbo snails to the tank. I let them aclimate over 3 hours by adding a few drip of tank water every 3-5 min. Well the shrimp is doing grand and seems quite happy with the new home, two of the turbos look to be having a blast removing the diatom bloom that was blanketing the tank. But two other snails aren't doing hot at all. One I found stuck upside down between two pieces of live rock the day after I added them to the tank, I righted him and placed him in a nice field of brown but he never moved, the next day I placed him in the substrate against the glass so I could watch, again no movement and not a peep from the shell. I'm new to snails so I didn't know when to pronounce him dead and spent all night reading. Next day again no movement and I take him out to give the sniff test, as soon as it broke the surface of the water I wanted to vomit, was a very dead snail.

Water levels stay constant, no detectable ammonia, steady pH and salinity...
The next day (yesterday) I notice the second snail isn't moving after falling off the tank glass, I leave him be all day and no movement, so I place him in a nice patch of brown diatom growth and leave him over night. This morning, no movement still. I move him up against the tank glass so I can watch and see if he moves inside the shell any, so far nothing.

The other two snails are running laps around the tank gobbling up the brown algae as fast as they can. The cleaner shrimp is a blast and even came over to clean my hand as I was moving the hopefully lathargic snail. Chrmois are fat and happy too.
I feel lost with reguards to the snails, I don't know why they are dieing and I'm not possitive they ARE dieing. What is "acceptable snail behavior"? God I don't want to remove one from the tank and him not be dead. (that first one tho, smelled like death and a splash of low tide, didn't even have to get my face remotely close to it to be knocked over by the smell)

What am I doing wrong?
Thanks for the help in advance, I'll likely be posting quite a bit with "Is this normal?" type questions. I feel like a kid on christmas with this tank, Lucy's has really helped us a ton.

Sk8r
05/15/2006, 08:16 PM
It's odd, that's for sure, given the survival of the rest.
Your ammonia is 0. Your salinity should be 1.024-6. I'd be a little suspicious of the salinity level, unless you have a refractometer: the swing arm hydrometers are notoriously cranky pieces of equipment, prone to bad readings. Note: if you should find it's way off, don't just toss salt in---: if too low, top off with salt water, or if too high draw down your saltwater level a little and top off with fresh, over a period of hours...sort of like drip acclimation on a large scale.
And what about your nitrite/nitrate readings?

Danfish
05/15/2006, 08:36 PM
I'm using the Coralife Deep Six swing arm hydrometer. About how much would a nicer hydrometer run me?

The last time I added salt, about 2-3 weeks ago, I mixed it in with water in a 4 cup measuring cup (was very salty) then slowly mixed it into the overflow part of the tank (where it would flow into the sump and then into the tank via the return, I wasn't sure if this was the best idea since I worry it might harm the bacteria in the sump, but I figgured it would help dillute the salt more evenly before it reached the main tank)
I took 2 shifts of 4 cups of water (8 cups total) to dillute 1/2 cup salt, and I poured it quite slow, using a 2 cup measuring cup to add tank water as I lost water from the larger cup (kept dilluting it as I added it to the tank).


As for Nitrite/Nitrate.
Nitrite has been undetectible for most of the life of the tank, I saw maybe 0.2 during the cycling process but my tester wasn't accurate that small so I'm guessing. (I graph all my tests on paper)

Nitrate has been steady at 20ppm for the last 3 weeks. I haven't done a 10% water change yet since establishing the tank, mainly because I haven't seen any algae other than the brown diatoms and my Nitrate hasn't risen over 20ppm. I'm not sure why the nitrate is so stable for so long, but I guessing it might be because I started running the skimmer about 2 weeks ago and I only have a small number of fish fouling the place up.


Also I did use live sand, I have about ~3" of live sand of mixed size. It really seemed to cushon the ammonia/nitrite cycle too (compared to my last aquarium).

Danfish
05/15/2006, 09:17 PM
At what point would it be safe to declare this second snail as dead?

He hasn't moved at all or shown any signs of life since I woke up yesterday, he is still in the tank water right now.

I'm scared of removing him prematurely but I don't know what would be normal for a snail. Perhaps they sometimes don't move a muscle for days at a time... :(

Rollin
05/16/2006, 07:23 AM
I would declare him dead. :( If they're not attached to anything or actively trying to attach they're not feeling well.

I don't see anything wrong with any levels. I run my SG about 1.020. IMO you just got a couple of bad snails since the shrimp and 2 other snails are fine.

Keep the questions coming! There's alot of really helpful people here.

~chris

Tomoko Schum
05/16/2006, 11:56 AM
If your snail smells bad, it's dead.

Turbo needs to be acclimated very slowly for sure. It's the number one reason why they die (excluding the case of copper and high nitrate level.) I learned a trick from an old timer. He called it "an old man in the tub." I use a algae cleaning magnet to acclimate my turbos. I bring the magnet up to the water surface. A side of the magnet should be right at the water surface so that it is slightly wet but not submerged. Line up your snails on the magnet and let them acclimate themselves. They will slowly move into the water on their own when they are ready. I have never lost a snail this way.

Tomoko

Danfish
05/16/2006, 01:23 PM
Took him out of the tank this morning, sniff test confims he's a goner. :(

I also went by Lucy's and picked up calcium buffer (to have on hand) and a calcium test kit (been needing one).
Ran the test as soon as I got home and came back with an off the chart reading of 620ppm. I've not added any calcium buff to the tank at any point, but did originaly fill it with huntsville tap water (perhaps I should run the calc test on a bit of the tap water, I didn't know tap water could have so much calc...)
Only other source of so much calcium could be my substrate (1 part crushed coral mixed with 2 parts live sand).

I'm not even sure what a high calcium could do to things, so I'm off to do the reaserch thing again.
Any water I've needed to add (top-off) has been store bought RO water (72c a gal), I might be in for a somewhat large water change if this elevated calcium turns out to be unhealthy :(


Other 2 snails and cleaner shrimp seem happy as pie. Hope I can fix things up before they start to show stress.

Danfish
05/16/2006, 02:28 PM
I've scoured my normal haunts looking for what a high Calcium can do, and I haven't found much other than it will likely drive my dKH down (it did drop from a 10dKH to a 9dKH today) but other than that I can't find anything on it.

Anyone know anything?
Should I be overly worried about the high Calcium (provided my dKH is still acceptable)?
Could the excessive calcium have had a hand in the death of 2 of my snails?
Do I ask too many questions? ;)

baddraw
05/16/2006, 06:43 PM
Wow, i suppose i should get a test kit for calcium. My dKh is running at 25, maybe we could swap some water. Lol lower my dkh and raise cal and raise you dkh and lower cal.

Rollin
05/16/2006, 06:59 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about the CA. The worst I've heard of is CA precipitating out of the water and causing a "snow storm."

Alk is also good IMO. Since you don't have any stonies in the tank at the moment the dKh is serving more to stabilize the PH than anything.

~chris

Danfish
05/16/2006, 11:12 PM
This evening I discovered what appears to be a baby turbo.
It was about 2mm in size, brown with the same "turban" shape shell.
Had his back to me so I couldn't get to great of a look.

I've got an 11mp digital camera(Canon 1Ds) so I ought to get a shot of him tomorow that I can enlarge to get a good detailed look.

j1b1e1
05/17/2006, 09:13 AM
Just make sure it's not a sundial snail (Heliacus) a.k.a. box snail. The color of the shell varies from species to species but they all (Heliacus) eat zoos happily. (and yes, this is the voice of experience) :-)

Tomoko Schum
05/17/2006, 03:56 PM
I suspect what you have is collonista snails. (http://melevsreef.com/id/collonista.html)

I had some in my tank when I first set it up and then they seem to have disappeared. I understand that they can multiply in an aquarium. I added a few recently. I hope they will multiply this time.

Tomoko

Danfish
05/17/2006, 04:46 PM
YES!
That is exactly what it looked like. Same pattern markings and all.
Thanks Tomo!

Safe too :up: