Soft corals looking unhealthy

[bromion]

Over the past few days I have made a few changes to my 58 gallon reef. I added a sump/refugium of 10 gallons along with the pump and plumbing to accomodate it. I also added an additional ~15lb of live rock, some to the display, some to the sump.

Today, and looking back starting last night, my soft corals -- flower leather, mushrooms, xenia -- are looking quite bad. The mushrooms are not opening, the xenia is mostly retracted, and the flower leather looks a bit wrinkly. This is much like how they appear at night, but my light is on as usual. My zoanthids are not fully open, either, and my large feather duster worm's fans appear ragged. All the other critters (fish, inverts) are acting and appearing normal.

I checked all of my water parameters, and they are almost identical to what they were before the sump and LR addition:

Ph 8.1
Sal 1.020
KH 7.5
NH3 0
NO2 0
NO3 0
Ca 360 mg/L
PO4 <0.25 (hard to read test)
Cu 0

Any thoughts? The salinity has been between 1.020 and 1.021 for about 2 months -- too low? Other ideas?

Thanks!

[bamsickle]

Could be just adjusting after the changes. I know my corals tend to lay low after moving rocks around and stirring things up. Also, did you cycle the new live rock before adding?

B

[bromion]

I got the LR locally from another tank, so it was established. I acclimated it, but did not quarantine or do additional curing.

Here are some pictures:

Mushroom:
<a href=http://static.flickr.com/56/150088715_f428619b1b_b.jpg><img src=http://static.flickr.com/56/150088715_f428619b1b.jpg></a>

Xenia:
<a href=http://static.flickr.com/52/150088714_84a8d91ab6_b.jpg><img src=http://static.flickr.com/52/150088714_84a8d91ab6.jpg></a>

Zoanthids:
<a href=http://static.flickr.com/45/150088713_50b2167057_b.jpg><img src=http://static.flickr.com/45/150088713_50b2167057.jpg></a>

Flower Leather:
<a href=http://static.flickr.com/52/150088712_7850386e15_b.jpg><img src=http://static.flickr.com/52/150088712_7850386e15.jpg></a>

[graveyardworm]

There was most likely some die-off in the LR while transporting it, and this has caused a mini cycle. At this point I would just do a water change or two, bump up skimming alittle if you can, and keep an eye on things to make sure they dont get worse.

Your salinity should be 1.026, this is natural saltwater level. You can bring it up safely and effectively by using saltwater mix for top off instead of fresh RO. Switch back to RO once you've reached the proper SG.

[bromion]

A minor ammonia release is possible, but it must have been rapidly consumed as my test yesterday and today showed zero ammonia. Today I do see about 0.1 mg/L nitrite and 0.2 mg/L nitrate. My corals still look the same, but I'll do another water change tomorrow and see how it goes. Nothing looks dead, at least.

[tinyreef]

could the softies be reacting to the additional water flow?

you mentioned that you added a sump and the pump/plumbing to feed it. maybe the additional flow has the softies taking cover a bit. they'll probably adjust for the most part (if it is the addt'l flow).

[bromion]

Is this pink pulsing xenia a goner? The picture earlier in the thread is from Saturday. Below is one from today. When I touch it, it releases whitish material. Probably dead tissue?

<a href=http://static.flickr.com/54/151551312_459c185a25_o.jpg><img src=http://static.flickr.com/54/151551312_459c185a25.jpg></a>

[graveyardworm]

Doesnt look very good, I would say there's definately something toxic in your tank. How are you measuring salinity, and how old is your ammonia test kit?

[bromion]

I measure salinity with a refractometer which I calibrate regularly. Ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite tests are Salifert, maybe 3 months old. I tested ammonia against some clean saltwater to compare the zero reading. I double checked the nitrate and nitrite against some dip strips. They are reading around zero for nitrite and 0.2 mg/L nitrate.

Things I added to the tank in the past two weeks or so:
-- Sump with apoxy/weldon attached parts.
-- Overflow box glued together with weldon.
-- PVC plumbing sealed with the PVC pipe glue.
-- Sand to the sump refugium area.
-- Live rock (about 15lb; previously had about 60lb in the tank)
-- Sump return pump.

It's my understanding that all of the adhesives I used are safe in reefs, and people use them all the time. I am hoping they are not causing any problems. The new LR could have die-off, but ammonia levels are undetectable. Other testing suggestions?

Thanks!
Jason

[bromion]

On the bright side, the Flower Leather and mushrooms are looking better, and the other xenia are seemingly unaffected.

[graveyardworm]

Xenia can be very sensative, are you using a phosphate remover of some sort? Are you dosing anything?

[bromion]

No phosphate remover, though I did test for it and looks like near-zero (the test is hard to read at the low end of the scale). I only add Kalkwasser in small amounts; no other dosing.

[fservillon]

is the sump pump new? reason i ask is i have a ~2 yr old mag12 and my softies weren't looking too good. i checked all h2o prameters, all was good, but i found that my pump's screws were rusted, pump was submerged in sump. needless to say i pulled the pump out and my corals seem to be recovering. jme. hth.
fernan

[bromion]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7419441#post7419441 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fservillon
is the sump pump new?

Brand new Quiet One 3000 pump. Hopefully no rusting yet!

[tinyreef]

i'm reading some xenia is fine and some are bad. if so, it could be a localized infection. you just need to be careful not to let it spread to the others via flow.

could also be something on the affected colony too that hitchhiked in with the new rock (15 lbs.) you added, e.g. coralivore/parasite. i'd remove the entire affected colony, carefully to avoid infecting(?) the others and closely examine it in another container filled with the same tank water. this will limit shock and let you get a better look.

i doubt it's rust or something of that nature because the other xenia colonies aren't affected.

[bromion]

These are two different types of xenia. One is the pulsing, the other is the long wavy type.

[russ49merc]

do a water change and throw some carbon in there.

[tinyreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7422405#post7422405 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bromion
These are two different types of xenia. One is the pulsing, the other is the long wavy type. then maybe it is the rust or something. :D

but i still suggest checking the colony/rock out in another container. kind of a QT for you to do a lookover. could be a bug/infection brought in with the new LR.

i agree with russ, carbon and waterchange can't hurt either imo.

[Sk8r]

Suggest cal could be a bit higher, and possibly you have some irritants binding up with the sandbed, but still present. Skim wet also, carbon a good idea, bring cal to 400 and kh to 8.3, salinity gradually to 1.024.

[bromion]

Thanks for all the suggestions. In the meantime, I am pulling out that Xenia as it's looking worse and worse. I did add carbon, and I'm working on raising the SG, also doing daily water changes to dilute any toxins that may be lingering.

[bromion]

Well, things are getting worse. I have been doing 4-5 gal water changes daily over the past week, which is slowly raising the salinity (now 1.023) and Ph (now 8.3). I also added activated carbon to the sump. The sickly Xenia colony is gone, but now my other Xenia (the long-arm wavy type) is looking terrible, whereas they appeared healthy before.

Still no ammonia, very low nitrite (about 0.1 mg/L), and reasonable nitrate (5 mg/L). Temperature is up (getting hot in L.A.) to 78-79F.

Any additional suggestions? Should I slow down or speed up on these water changes?

Thanks!

[tinyreef]

brom,
i'd continue with the carbon but ease up on the waterchanges. i'd level off at 1.023sg for now. limit the changes on the system to slow/minimal changes. i run a lower salinity to account for any evaporation issues (in case my ato runs dry, refractometer's screwy, etc.)

is there any obvious rot on this newly infected xenia colony? how averse are you to dosing iodine in either Kent Tech I form or Lugol's Iodine form? (some avoid them and some embrace them) i'm looking at them more as an antiseptic than nutrient/coral saviour. otoh, i'm not a fan of coral dips but that's another possibility you might want to explore.

[bromion]

Some of the xenia are definitely rotting, the rest look quite unhappy. I plan to pick up Lugol's tomorrow, as a number of sources recommend it.

[graveyardworm]

What salinity are you mixing your change water to, how long is it mixing before you use it?

Your first post indicated 0 NO2, and 0 NO3. So something most likely happened from the addition of the new LR.

From what I've read from other members xenia seem to like iodine, but the water changes you've been doing should've provided plenty.

I've never used lugols so I cant really comment.

Temp 78-79 is probably okay, I think alittle higher is better like 80-81, and as steady as possible with no more than a couple degrees fluctuation. Actually 82-83 is perfect but alittle room for error/fluctuation is alright.

[graveyardworm]

Also how are the other corals/anemone doing?

[bromion]

The new water has salinity 1.025, and it mixes in a 10-gal container with a powerhead for about 24 hr. I add water to the sump, so it should be well-mixed before entering the display tank.

You think temp should be higher? That I certainly can do... I struggle to keep it below 80F. Will a higher temperature be detrimental to fish and other inverts?

My last reading of nitrite was 0.01 and nitrate 0.1 mg/L. That was about two hours after a 5 gallon water change.

Other corals: flower leather is doing great with its usual appearance. A green mushroom is still looking bad, but it's certainly alive. A brown mushroom looks great. The zoanthids are still not back to normal, but they are not getting worse, either. My SPS Pavona looks OK.

[graveyardworm]

Normal reef temps avg like 82-83 degrees F. Corals tend to live at about the max temp for them so even a slight increase trend can be harmful. Your temp is probably fine alittle warmer wouldnt hurt as long as you can maintain it there without much increase.

How did you mix the water for the new sump? Was it mixed in seperate container and allowed to stand for 24 hours before use, or did you mix it in the sump, and then fire everything up?

[bromion]

Separate container for mixing with RO/DI water. In that container is a heater and powerhead to warm and mix. Typically there is water left over, so older and newer water will mix in that bin. The sump runs continuously.

[bromion]

I purchased Lugol's solution today. How much do you recommend dosing? The bottle recommends 1 drop per 25 gallons each week. Should I do more in light of this emergency?

I have removed some of the decaying xenia bunches from the tank. The rest are still declining. Short of removing them, I don't see what else to do at this point.

Thanks for the help!

[tinyreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7446122#post7446122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bromion
How much do you recommend dosing? The bottle recommends 1 drop per 25 gallons each week. Should I do more in light of this emergency?no, i wouldn't dose more than the recommended amount at one time. lugol's is very strong. it's toxic to us as well as the tank.

i'd do all your cleaning and waterchanges first and then dose the lugol's.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7446122#post7446122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bromion
I have removed some of the decaying xenia bunches from the tank. The rest are still declining. Short of removing them, I don't see what else to do at this point.removing the obviously sick or infected ones is the best choice. if i have to cut tissue i usually take some healthy tissue along with the sick just to be sure i removed all the infected parts. hopefully, you can limit the spread. good luck!

[bromion]

Just to give a resolution, most of the xenia colonies have rebounded and are recovering nicely. I am very surprised at this result, as they looked really terrible and were disintegrating two weeks ago. Now they have returned to a healthy color and are growing new polyps. The other softies are also recovered, except one mushroom that still looks sickly. My SPS Pavona is still declining however, and appears to be bleaching.

What I did: daily 5 gallon water changes for about 1.5 weeks, added carbon, added a poly-filter, dosed lugol's solution. I imagine the water changes did the most good, diluting whatever toxin that entered the tank causing the problem in the first place.

Thanks for the help!