Call me stupid.......

[kokamo]

But can I ask what "curing" is for live rock? I have seen soooo many people say, "I've got Live Rock, but it's curing" What does this mean? How does this happen, why does this this need to be done, and is it neccissary?

Sorry for the list of questions.

I am a full newbie.....please be gentle:p

Joe

[MCary]

Dear stupid,

When LR is taken from the ocean it is encrusted with lots of things. Alot of these critters and algaes die during the shipping process. Most of them, sponges especially cannot live in an enclosed system like a home aquarium so they also die maybe not in shipping but later. As these things die the expected result happens, the organic material rots polluting the water its in. Now you don't want that pollution in the tank. So a separate vessel, maybe a rubbermade tub is used to house the rock until the end of the die off. Usually water is changed periodically so that the pollution doesn't kill thing you want to preserve on the rock. That's called curing. How's that?

Mike

[yoboyjdizz]

Live rock needs to be cured because when its shipped alot of die off can happen. Since its "live" rock their are many different creatures living within it some good some bad. When curing it some try to kill off most they can. Also you cure because of ammonia spikes that can happen from the die off so you don't want a mini spike in your display tank, causing your water qaulity to turn bad. Something to that extent.

[yoboyjdizz]

beat me to it, basically what mike said.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Nice explanation MCary.

Also, you need to "cure" certain types of base rock and DIY rock. This isn't because of the excess organic matter, but because the rock actually causes the pH of the water to soar significantly higher. For example, limestone can be used in a reef tank, but it needs to be "cured" in a seperate tub of fresh water until the pH sits at a safe 8.2-8.3 or less.

Oh, and Joe, MCary called you "Dear stupid" in the most sarcastic and joking sense, I'm sure. :D

[MCary]

He said to call him stupid. I was just following instructions.

[jerehmy]

those guys are right on :)

One thing that I did different was to really "hunt" for "prime" pices of LR and I used the "smell" test. If it smells like sh*t then you don't want it in your tank. If it smells like wet rock you will have less die off and the rock won't kill your tank.

I have been adding "prime" pices for a few mo. Every time I go to the LFS I get 1 or 2 or 3 etc pices :)

[kokamo]

Ok, stupid is back!:D That was funny Mike. I had it coming:D

Ok, the rock I got from the LFS, is it cured? Maybe I should call them and find out for sure. I did smell it and it really had no smell at all that I could remember. Neither did the live sand.

***EDIT***Just got off the phone with the LFS and they told me the rock I purchased was 80% cured.

My readings are the following as of on the third day.....

KH---------11 drops.......I guess that how I measure?
PH---------8.2
Nitrite-----3.0
Nitrate----60
Hyd--------1.024
Calcium---270

Yesterday, which was day three, all I did was....

Nitrite-----2.0
Nitrate----50
PH---------7.8

Not sure what else to do for now. How do I know when this tank has cycled?

Thanks for the help.

Joe

[goda]

i love lfs that throw out randoms numbers.
rock is either cured or not cured. its impossiable to come up with a number unless they count each living thing blablabla\

anyways your cycle is done when you ammonia is 0 and nitrite is 0

my guess is your ammonia is on its way down since no2 is going up

anywasy your not done yet
( altho you could add snails and hermits at this time. even with high nitrite.)

[kokamo]

Ok, just for future reference.....

Nitrate.....AKA.....Ammonia?????

also,

No2.....AKA.....????

Please excuse my ignorrance. I am still learning.

JOe

[Sk8r]

No, no. Nitrite is the stuff they use to cure bacon. ;) It's also a chemical that happens during the breakdown of biowaste.
Nitrate leads to nitrate, which is bad. So is ammonia bad, which comes from fish poo and old rotting fishfood. And so is phosphate, which comes largely from fishfood and herbivore poo and leads to algae takeover of one's tank.
What your live rock and sand do is grow bacteria that specialize in breaking down fish poo and other waste: they eat it for food and are themselves eaten by bigger bugs and finally by microlife that your fish may eat. Not to mention the worms, which are really helpful.
This all happens in the deep layers of the deep sand bed, and live rock, which is why you want to guard your sandbed and your live rock with your life and never, never, never put any medication in your tank that can kill off bacteria (there are one or two fairly safe exceptions, but not when your tank is new, and one exception is NOT copper, which is absolutely lethal to bacteria, live rock, live sand, and most living things. It is in a lot of fish medication, which is why you have quarantine and treatment tanks and never, ever do anything like that to your tank.)

Well, at any rate, when your sand and rock start operating full strength, you will see the nitrate and nitrite and ammonia levels drop to zero. There are a few stray amino acids (proteins) floating about, and that's what your skimmer gets.

This is why you don't use filter media or bioballs in a good reef tank, because they take part of the 'food' away for their own bacteria and deprive your sandbed and rock, which are actually a lot more stable than any filter pad. Depriving your sandbed weakens your system. Only use filter pads for a brief necessity, like chopped algae let loose by some fish. Treasure your sandbed and keep it healthy, don't let it overturn, and don't overfeed it either: balance in everything.
HTH!

[tkeracer619]

when a tank cycles it does just that. goes through a chemical cycle.

The first is ammonia (waiste, excess food, decomposing material). Ammonia's Chemical make up is NH3 / NH4

The second chemical stage is Nitrite or NO2. This is less toxic than ammonia.

The third and less toxic of the three is Nitrate or NO3.

A deep sand bed or a denitrator can go even further to change the Nitrate into hamless Nitrogen gas.

[goda]

ammonia then nitrite ( no2) then nitrate (no3)
then if you lucky free nitrogen

[tkeracer619]

my dsb powers my hydrogen fuel cell car :D

[hairymushroom]

Just to add to the previous statements , you should wait at least a month before adding fish/inverts, to give your system more time to mature and stabilise. then start stocking slowly.
-Travis

[techreef]

good luck kokamo. you're asking good questions, and getting great responses here. your tank will be rock solid if you keep approaching the hobby like you are now. Enjoy!

[Pete1399]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7427875#post7427875 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by techreef
good luck kokamo. you're asking good questions, and getting great responses here. your tank will be rock solid if you keep approaching the hobby like you are now. Enjoy!

Ditto! You got a lot of intelligent responses. Keep asking questions here and you can learn more. Search or browse the different postings and you can learn even more. Check out the stickies at the top of new to the hobby to learn more.

[kokamo]

Will do guys! You guys are great! I can't wait to get this tank going.

Thanks again!

Joe

[Teeka]

What kind of KH test do you have?

[theop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7425588#post7425588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goda
ammonia then nitrite ( no2) then nitrate (no3)
then if you lucky free nitrogen

Actually, live rock does this too, and is the reason LR is better as a filter than bio-balls.

The bacteria which convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate are both aerobic (require oxygen), and thus you can achieve good populations with live rock, bio-balls, or sponges.

However, the bacteria which convert nitrite to N2 gas (which diffuses out of the tank into the air) are anerobic, and thus require an environment without oxygen.

The main ways to acheive adequate populations of these bacteria are to use live rock (which has anaerobic areas deep inside the rock) and a DSB. There are also de-nitrifying reactors which convert nitrite to nitrogen gas using a chemical process involving sulfur.

Overall, using live rock is the "best method" because it is an all-natural process, doesn't have the potential toxicity of a DSB, provides natural food for your tank inhabitants, and is usually teeming with other forms of live critters. The main down-side is that it is expensive.

[kokamo]

Teeka, my kit is a Tetra Test Kit. Is this a good test kit?

Theop, thats some great info. I'm glad I got the live rock. From what I understand, it's the best thing to get.

Thanks again guys! You all are awesome!

Joe

[sidneybrooksjr]

i'm new too, but i've read that salifert test kits are the best and most accurate. good luck. it's a fun and sometimes frustrating hobby but this is the site to be on..