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drowningdreamer
05/23/2006, 10:54 PM
Ok since I've taken the plunge into reef keeping its time to invest in quality. I have a budget of 200-300 for purchasing a new R/O unit. Now for the choices is where you fellow reefers come in. What have you used or are using and would recommend. What accessories should I be getting, any links appreciated.

BeanAnimal
05/23/2006, 11:53 PM
Stay far away from the "ebay deals"

Get a unit with a true DOW FILMTEC 75 GPD membrane and a true vertical DI chamber!!

Time tested cost effective models are available from:

AirWaterIce (get the typhoon III 75gpd)
PurleyH20
BuckeyFieldSupply
Filterguys.biz
and a few others.

All of the companies mentioned are very reputable with great customer service and top notch products. All will be honest with you when you call to choose a unit and will continue to support you for the life of the unit.

nemo g
05/24/2006, 12:51 AM
everyone ive read, and including myself, love their typhoon III from airwaterice.com.

love the pressure gauge, gives me an idea of what kind of pressure is going into the unit and about how much water i can expect to be made. so, if ive got no flow, but pressue is good, something is up, and the opposite, you get the idea.

also love the included tds meter that has a handy thermometer bulit in.

couldnt be happier with the unit. everything seems high quality, no shady/cheap materials, from the containers to the valves.

5 stages, di bipass, pressure gauge, hi tech membrane, fast flush, tds meter, all for $200. :D

dont be fooled by the cheaper solutions. you pay less, but youll get MUCH less.

saltman123
05/24/2006, 01:50 AM
Someone recommended Coralife Pure-Flo II RO DI system (http://www.overnightfish.com/item--50-Gpd-Ro-Di-Unit-PureFlo--ES76002.html)

Any idea if this is ideal, or if the Typhoon is much better?

ReefXpert
05/24/2006, 02:00 AM
Most people get theirs from either AirWaterIce or PurelyH2O. I just got mine from PurelyH2O a week ago. And so far I am pleased with the product as well as the customer service.

Here's an existing thread you can read on:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=825847

saltman123
05/24/2006, 02:05 AM
PurelyH2O even has a mini 2 stage system for nano's around $80. Its probably better to go with a better system for the long run I think...

nemo g
05/24/2006, 02:24 AM
heres the link direct of coralife: http://esuweb.com/cardfile.asp?ItemNumber=76002&IDProductRelationship=292

couple of things to note...

- rated at 60psi : not as good, typhoon is better, and rated at 50psi.

the psi rating is tells you what pressure it needs to give you the rated gallons per day. so, to give you an idea, im only getting 35 psi from my pipes. so you better have high pressure to get any where near 50 gallons per day.

- only one carbon block: not as good, typhoon is better. one block means it is more likely more particles will get through to the membrane. the typhoon has two which lets the second catch what the first didnt.

two carbon blocks will get a lot more out of the water making your membrane last longer, which is the most expensive part to replace.

- no pressure gauge: not as good, typhoon has it. as i explained earlier its a very handy device. not a required item but niether is a refugium, it just makes using the ro unit much more efficient. especially with its rating so hgh at 60psi, your going to want to know what kind of pressure its actually getting.

- no di bypass: not good, typhoon has it. this again isnt absolutely necessary but it is a major plus.

1. lets you test the water after the ro so you know when its starting to fail and needs a change. if not, you could be killing your di resin for no reason very quickly and changing it when it should be the membrane that needs replacement.

2. most people dont like the taste of di water and prefer to drink the ro (di bypassed) water.

im not sure if it takes standard media or if you have to buy "coralife" media. this would be bad. not good if you "have to" buy only what they sell which is more likely more expensive and inferior to other products.

- no tds meter: not good, typhoon comes with it. this is a must. without it you have no idea how your unit is performing, and when the media needs to be changed.

so, the easy question, which is better? typhoon III reefkeeper kit.

now, the question you need to ask yourself which is super easy for me to answer:

"is it worth the $65 more?"

first off, its really only $45 since it comes with the tds meter that you MUST own, it costs $20 and is included. another bonus, for rc members, youll get a free float valve, and if you use it its another $15 you get.

lets see what you get for the "extra $45":

1. pressure gauge
2. 2nd carbon filter
3. di bypass
4. 75 gpd membrane rated at 50psi
5. fast flush kit (debatable how useful it is)
6. high quality parts. ive had my experience with coralife products, lets just say they arent "high end" :D

good luck with you decision. youll be fine either way, just one way will be more efficient and could be much "better" if you use the included features (i do).

badpacket
05/24/2006, 02:26 AM
I disagree, all of this stuff of bog-standard, interchangeable stuff. With the exception of the membrane. I have no relationship with this guy/place, however I got one almost exactly the same for $85 shipped a couple of years ago:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Reef-6st-100GPD-Reverse-Osmosis-RO-DI-Water-Filters_W0QQitemZ4463781562QQcategoryZ20684QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For most anyone, whether this has a Dowtec membrane or not, I don't know if you can buy all the canisters, connectors, etc for the price even if you ended up having to buy another membrane in a year.

In another thread, I mentioned that mine has measured either 10 ppm or 4-5 ppm at RO output, and 0 at DI output since new.
And I got the 25gpd model which wasn't the best idea, but its worked very well, and I didn't need to spend the extra $100 for the Eddie Bauer brand name.

And, I'm not saying that this auction isn't a piece o crap, just that mine was fine. I think I got mine from Aqua-Safe, who no longer do eBay..well it looks like they do as this is almost identical too mine as well:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUA-SAFE-AQUARIUM-PLUS-REVERSE-OSMOSIS-WATER-FILTER_W0QQitemZ4464339152QQcategoryZ20684QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

My $0.02 worth.

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2006, 05:12 AM
i got my first unit off ebay a 100gpd unit and well 2 years later and even a good cleaning and new filters i am lucky to get 10gpd out of it. now i own a purelyh2o unit and love it. makes water like a charm and costomer service is great.

saltman123
05/24/2006, 08:27 AM
Well it seems the boat sways both ways.

I guess it is probably best to just spend the extra cash with a company and then have someone to complain too if problems arise knowing they will always have some type of help available.

I too found many eBay units but was a little afraid to invest in a line that may be obsolete next year. Guess i'll keep learning about RO systems and keep the Typhoon at the top of the list for now.

Thanks for the awesome replies

moggyhill
05/25/2006, 05:19 AM
I would go with purely H2O over airwater ice. I think purely H2O has a comparable product for less money, they have better service. I personally would not deal with airwaterice. You can get the same product for less money and less hassle elsewhere.

BeanAnimal
05/25/2006, 05:43 AM
"I personally would not deal with airwaterice."

You make it sound like the are a bad company... if you are going to take a shot at a vendor, you may want to give some reasons.

I am an AWI customer and have found their service to be one of the very best in the business. Their products are first rate as well. That said, I have heard "walter" is no longer with the company and customer support may be on the outs?

moggyhill
05/25/2006, 07:04 AM
It is what it is, a personal opinion. I would not deal with airwaterice, I would personally go with PurelyH2O because I think they have better service, prices, and a comparable product.

nemo g
05/25/2006, 09:34 AM
imo the moon is made of out of cheese.

sodaman
05/25/2006, 10:16 AM
purelyh2o is my vote

drowningdreamer
05/25/2006, 12:47 PM
I noticed on purelyh2o website that they have the "Optima Cloramine Advanced" for $249.00. Does this R/O unit blow the Typhoon III out of the water. I'm a noob and still deciding on which one to get.

nemo g
05/25/2006, 01:25 PM
thats a very nice unit. the only difference i see is the additional tds meters.

only thing to ask yourself is the extra tds meters worth the extra $50.

cant go wrong with either unit as they are almost identical. heck, all ro/di units are just about identical if they can use the same media.

if a given unit uses standard casings and fittings, the only thing that seperates it will be the "bells and whistles". we all want/need different bells and whistles, are have a different comfort level for spending.

just make sure all the bipass valves are included, those buggers add up quickly. and with a unit like the typhoon or optima, they need quite a few. they can run without them, but makes control very difficult.

in the end it looks like a great featured unit, if you are ok with the cost, no worries.

moggyhill
05/25/2006, 02:20 PM
[QUOTE][i]<a ]
[B]I noticed on purelyh2o website that they have the "Optima Cloramine Advanced" for $249.00. Does this R/O unit blow the Typhoon III out of the water.


In a word YES:D

purza_00
05/25/2006, 07:39 PM
Remember the Purely h2o comes with a 10% discount if you use the reef central discount code when ordering, and no shipping cost. So factor those in.

Chad Vossen
05/25/2006, 08:56 PM
i cant figure out the Purely h2o site. lol...

sodaman
05/25/2006, 09:02 PM
I own the Ultima Chloramine Advanced and love it!

There is more difference between Typhoon III and the Ultima CA than the meters.
This unit has a (GAC) Catalytic carbon filter that removes chloramine better than a std carbon block. I know there are many people who love their Typhoons but I don't have any experience with them and have chloramine in my city water so I went with purelyh2o. Never had any regrets on that purchase and would definitely recommend it.

Ereefic
06/01/2006, 06:23 PM
Boy moggyhill, almost 2 months ago, you seemed to like them. What happened?

4/5/06
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7114808#post7114808

5/25/06
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7434459#post7434459

moggyhill
06/01/2006, 06:30 PM
I went to work for them and discovered much differently. Boy was I wrong.

Ereefic
06/01/2006, 06:37 PM
Have you ever bought from them from a 'customers' stand point or are you just bitter? I ask because you posted in a RO thread bashing AWI, and you were the first to bring up that company in the thread.

nemo g
06/01/2006, 07:03 PM
nice catch eric.

its a shame so many people like to blindly claim one thing is better than the other without ever useing one or sometimes even the other.

an ro filter is nothing but a a couple of glass canisters filled with media with a bunch of fittings. so if the canisters are made well, and so are the fittings, the only difference would be the media.

if you have chloramine then you just to get the right media. if one company offers it standard, thats fine. but doesnt mean its better, geez.

i did not need all the extra wizbang added on gadgets since i have a tds meter. so i dont think paying $50 extra, thats 25% more folks, for an extra unneeded meter or catalytic carbon that i also dont need, warrants the price.

saying one is better than the other without ample reason is just silly. any educated consumer should do their homework and look for products that best fit their application.

that h20 filter looks like a great unit, but offers extra stuff at an extra cost, so decide if you need or want it.

nonetheless, this thread is just another great example how people hiding behind their monitors with personal bias do nothing but misinform those looking for valuable and helpful info.

learn to read between the lines and be able to tell the valuable posts from the not so valuable.

BeanAnimal
06/01/2006, 07:09 PM
SO let me get this straight because I am little bit slow...

You worked for AWI. You pushed their products via recomendations here at RC.

You NO LONGER work for AWI and now steer people away from them?

No disclosure in either case? Gimme a break.

I would also be careful as to what you say... you may want to look up slander and libel laws in your state. If I were your ex employer I would certainly be upset if you were out costing me business...

Honestly why would you even step into this thread?

BeanAnimal
06/01/2006, 07:14 PM
Nemo, you got it for the most part....

I would add that the value of the units in question is not just one of MEDIA and MEMBRANE. Customer service and support is also a factor. A clear line can be drawn between the good units and the bad.

Good units have good filter m media and a DOW FILMTEC 75GPD membrane with a full size vertical DI housing and quality ASOV and pressure/flow regulation.

Cheap units generally have a lesser quality membrane, media and a horizontal DI housing, along with some cheaper parts that may or may not make a difference.

Bean

nemo g
06/01/2006, 07:33 PM
i agree bean,

i didnt want to state the obvious, but i guess maybe it wasnt

:D

woopsie

sodaman
06/01/2006, 07:46 PM
Nemo G,

Geez, you should chill out and stop disrespecting others who are offering their opinions. That is what these boards are all about, people offering their opinions based on experience.

By the way, the optima CA is $25 more than Typhoon w/ RC discount. To me that was worth it. Just my opinion, never said the Typhoon was inferior (never owned one), but for 25 bucks I got the catalytic carbon an inline TDS meter and a membrane TDS percent monitor.

nemo g
06/01/2006, 08:32 PM
sorry if you were offended, or "disrespected". i always aim at objective posts and try to avoid any argument ad hominem.

as far as opinions go, there are different kinds.

a. simple, subjective, ignorant, and baised opinion (usually false)

b. informed, based on research and experience with an attempt at objectivity.

so, i stand by what i said earlier. everyone should aim to share INFORMED opinions. a post with some factual support is always preffered and apprecieted, but unfortunately not always seen. simple comments such as " i think this" and "i dont like that" just arent helpful.

nothing wrong with that, is there?

and just for a bit of info, RC members get a $15 float valve with the typhoon III. so it would be helpful if you ammend your price comparisons.

isnt a float valve a lot more useful than 3 seperate gadgets that all say the same thing?

BeanAnimal
06/01/2006, 08:32 PM
sodaman there is opinion and there is fact. Most of the debate over RO/DI is simple fact with little room for opinon with regards to what matters.

The purpose of an RO/DI unit is to create 0 TDS water. You could rate them any number of ways:

Which unit is prettier?
Which unit matches the room decor better?
Which unit has an overall less expensive cost of ownership?
Which unit outputs 0 TDS water without fail?
Which unit is made of better materials?
Which unit has better convenience features?
Which unit is made by a company that will stand behind it?

I would imagine you can clearly see what pretty much universaly matters with an RO/DI unit. It is clearly the total cost of ownership followed by the quality and features of the unit. Jut about any way you add the criteria up (other than pure looks) you still come up with only 1 set of winning features that meet the average residential water supply parameters and provide the desired results:

DOW FILMTEC 75 GPD membrane:
Full Size Vertical DI unit:
quality regulator
quality ASOV
quality fittings
quality customer support (not important to some)

Lets put this another way. MOST folks that buy the lesser units do so because of the PRICE. What they don't undestand (either because lack of knowledge or lack of research) is that the COST is not simply the purchase price, it includes the renewable materials. To talk about purchase price without accounting for renewables cost is purley a waste of time. Again we are assuming that ALL of the units in question provide the exact same service: ZERO TDS OUTPUT WATER.

Inkjet or Laser printers can be looked at the same way. When comparing 2 units with identical output, the cost is comprised of the purchase price, renewables cost, and service life. Most people get robbed blind becuse they think purchasing a $99 printer is a good deal. Most will fight with their lives to tell you how they got a great deal and that the morons who pay $200 are getting ripped off.

I am frankly tired of hashing it out with people (not directed towards you) who confuse opinion with fact and want to somehow equate opinion to fact. We have a society of people who feel that somehow opinion overules fact.

As an engineer you surely know the difference between qaulitative and quantitative analysis. We can both pontificate about how fast the race car looks and why we think it is the best, but pure science will tell us how well it performs and why.

Your opinion regarding the value of the extras is however well placed and very valid (no matter if I agree or not).

nemo g
06/01/2006, 08:40 PM
bean,

thats the second time youve same the exact same thing as me in a completely different way

:D

i used to attempt longer, more precise, and more descriptive explanations but then realized it was pointless. for the people they were aimed at werent going to comprehend it, and the people who did, already knew it.

but at least youre fighting the good fight

:beer:

AZDesertRat
06/01/2006, 09:32 PM
As a trained water treatment plant operator the idea of the inline meter doesn't sit well with me. I would say it is an indicator only just like the percent monitor. I would not rely on a meter that I cannot clean and calibrate regularly. I would use it as a guide and then confirm readings with my handheld meter. Probes get dirty and need cleaning especially on the raw water and pre RO sides. Same goes for the post DI side, DI watre is very agressive and I don't know the composition of the probe but few things can stand up to water like that for an extended amount of time.
Don't get me wrong the Optima series is one of my favorites and I highly recommend it but I don't think it is any better than the Typhoon III or even Buckeyes 75 GPD Premium or The Filter Guys Ocean Reef + series.
Tools that are very important in any system are of course the RO membrane itself which is the workhorse, an efficient DI filter, a pressure gauge and a TDS meter. Throw in the best prefilters and carbon blocks you can afford and you have a good system no matter who supplies it.
Its how it is packaged, plumbed, presented and represented that varies from vendor to vendor and many unlike myself don't care where they buy it or if the vendor will be around tommow to stand behind his product. I like stability and therefore will spend a little more for a product that I know will work 7 years from now as my present one has and have a person I can call on who will stand behind it if it fails on me. Time and again I have seen or heard of the better vendors mentioned here replacing products way out of normal warranty periods just because they value their customers and earn that respect by doing so. You will also find most of them answering your questions here and on other forums and not trying to sell you a thing. Get an ebay vendor to do any of that for you!

moggyhill
06/02/2006, 04:09 AM
I have 2 ro/di filters from air water ice and have had them long before I went to work for them. I worked for them for a short time. I never posted anything while I was working for them. I actually went to work for them because I liked their product so much. After going to work there I discovered alot of things. I quit working for them and now just tell the truth as I see it.

nemo g
06/02/2006, 06:17 AM
moggy,

basically what you are saying is:

1 awi filters are good, they were good a long time ago and still are

2 you dont like working for them


i wouldnt work for petsmart, but im more than happy with the supplies

BeanAnimal
06/02/2006, 06:32 AM
Moggyhill....

After reading your posts on the matter here and in the locked thread... I honestly don't have faith in much you say (good or bad about AWI).

In any case, it amazes me that your still here beating the same drum. Your actions go a long way to showing your bias against AWI and only serve to add credibility to the disgruntled ex employee motive. If I were your ex-employer I would certainly have my legal council looking at this.

Good grief...

badpacket
06/03/2006, 12:00 AM
Why is it lately so many threads all seem to suggest people self-censor themselves, for fear of slander/libel litigation?
This is like the 3rd or 4th thread I've read in the past week or so that is beinging this up.
Neither libel nor slander are easy too prove, and I don't really believe those suggesting it are honestly trying to warn people as much as simply get them to shut-up or go away. Can we just let the Mods police people's posts as per the TOS?


In this instance, I don't know if it is a case of sour grapes, or just as likely, a new perception of just what is being sold, as seen from the production line. People would be quite surprised to know that Maxi-jets are thought to run only ~$3-4 to produce, but sold for 200-300% mark-up as they make their way through the supply chain. RO/DI are almost guaranteed to be similarly BOM'd and produced.

A good Filmtec, flush valve, and maybe an ASOV and everything else is basically a commodity unless you want the fancy gadgets/dodads.

You can piece together a well sourced and produced RO/DI from quality components for <$100, and thats retail. Unless buying the cheapest off of eBay, "Customer Service" is or should be minimal to non-existent. Its plastic containers with screwtops, fittings, hose, and a valve or two with a membrane.


If someone wants to pay $200+ for a simple device like RO/DI, thats certainly their choice. For that price, the Customer Service better be excellent I'd say. For me, if a $5 fitting or $15 valve breaks after a year or two, I'll just but a new one.

Its not like this is a high-end skimmer, pump or some such.

If anyone is interested, find a thread by Barebottoms, where he shows how to make a 4-5 stage RO/DI, with Chloromine removing capability. He gives a site he liked, and I think the BOM for this very well thought out water system ran around $125 or less I think.


And yes, had a crap day at work :)

moggyhill
06/03/2006, 03:26 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

crumbletop
06/03/2006, 06:17 AM
or just as likely, a new perception of just what is being sold, as seen from the production line

This is rather unlikely if you read her posts in this and other threads. The far more likely scenario is disgruntled employee. If she were simply appalled at the markup, why would she now recommend a competitors product that is essentially the same componenets for the same price? In addition she is an admitted fan of AWI products (quality, reliability, and customer service) prior to her being employed by them.

So it appears to me, even after her "view from the inside," that she is still a fan of the quality components and the pricing but now steers people to other vendors. She used to promote AWI and now does not -- all while not disclosing her relationship as a vendor.

There have been various reports by RC members of a drop off in quailty and customer service that correspond to the time that moggyhill worked for them. Hmmmm -- seems to me like sour grapes...

Jack

moggyhill
06/03/2006, 06:29 AM
I never promoted awi while I was employed by them. And if you read all the awi you will see that there has been a consistent issues with customer service, before, during, and after I was there. It is not sour grapes, It IS that my knowledge base of the business in general and awi in specific grew.
. She used to promote AWI and now does not -- all while not disclosing her relationship as a vendor.

There have been various reports by RC members of a drop off in quailty and customer service that correspond to the time that moggyhill worked for them. Hmmmm -- seems to me like sour grapes...

Jack [/B][/QUOTE]

crumbletop
06/03/2006, 06:33 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7489757#post7489757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by moggyhill
It is not sour grapes, It IS that my knowledge base of the business in general and awi in specific grew.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

voodoody
06/03/2006, 07:31 AM
Website for PurelyH2O is down. Are they out of bussiness?

moggyhill
06/03/2006, 07:33 AM
no, just having problems with web site, call their 1800 number, bryan takes your call.

crumbletop
06/03/2006, 07:37 AM
I doubt it. You could try calling. 1-888-620-8894

BeanAnimal
06/03/2006, 07:59 AM
Badpacket.... we usually agree.

In this case we do not (which is fine :) )

Yes Libel and Slander are hard to prove (then again when you have it in writing on the web it is much easier).

You are correct in the fact that the post was a nice way of saying something else:

It could be read as: "grow up and stop acting like a baby, your comments carry no value due to the context in which they are being made. Take your sour grapes someplace else and stop bothering people looking for honest answers from honest people."

What is wrong with asking people to self censor themsevles? If more people put a sock in it before they shoved their foot in it, less people would have to listen to the drivel and could spend more time conversing about the facts.

I think you will also find that the conclusion barebottoms (and those of us who shopped the BOM) came to was that there is no savings in building your own. The before shipping price is not even competative, add in shipping and the "extras" that the reputable vendors offer, and there is no comparison. These ARE very simple units with very little technical know how needed to build a good one. As I stated, most folks can't source the materials to build one cheaper than they can buy. The second fact is that MOST people don't want to build one, instead they want to purchase a unit with the expectation that it will be worth the money they pay for it.

If moggyhill knows so much she would have opened her own company OR be pushing people to build their own. Yes there may be a good markup, but that comes with quantity purchases of raw materials. Moggy is just a disgruntled ex-employee trying to hurt her former employer by bad mouthing him and sending business to the competition.

Moggy...
The more you say the more you shove your foot in your mouth. You have been exposed but persist in your effort to appear unbiased and honest... thanks for the entertainment.

BeanAnimal
06/03/2006, 08:04 AM
Moggy...

I would also add that if you have ANY association with Bryan or PurleyH20, you are doing him no favors at this point. Your credibility is suspect at best and your motives are in question. I surely hope it is just sour grapes alon and you have NOTHING to do with Bryan and PurleyH20. The guy seems to be working very hard to establish a reputable business with a great product.

AZDesertRat
06/03/2006, 10:47 AM
The unit barebottom built came out to $126 and change but it still didn't include a pressure gauge, TDS meter, refillable DI cartridge and other things that some of the comparable units come with for just slightly more. It aslo would not be nearly as effective at chloramine removal as the Optima CA with catalytic carbon from PurelyH2O. In his BOM it does not include brand names but I seriously doubt that the membrane is a Dow Filmtec 75 GPD for $26.
If you enjoy building things thats great, but you will not save any money and probably spend a little more in fact.
Buckeyes Typhoon is $159 and comes with a pressure gauge, refillable DI, float valve and other things. Buckeyes 75 GPD Premium is $149 and comes with extras too.

badpacket
06/09/2006, 12:10 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7490073#post7490073 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Badpacket.... we usually agree.

In this case we do not (which is fine :) )

Hi BeanAnimal, same here too. And agree that disagreement is not in and of itself baaad, as some seem to think nowadays.

Yes Libel and Slander are hard to prove (then again when you have it in writing on the web it is much easier).

That is true. But on the internet proving 'who' wrote something takes more than resolving an IP to a name, and then proving that person was in fact the actual person who posted it. Do-able, but might be expensive and not assured in court, but IANAL...

You are correct in the fact that the post was a nice way of saying something else:

It could be read as: "grow up and stop acting like a baby, your comments carry no value due to the context in which they are being made. Take your sour grapes someplace else and stop bothering people looking for honest answers from honest people."

What is wrong with asking people to self censor themsevles?

LOL, considering my mouth some days, I can't and wouldn't argue against that.


If more people put a sock in it before they shoved their foot in it, less people would have to listen to the drivel and could spend more time conversing about the facts.


True. I think one could quibble about whether it is always drivel that the other is espousing, or if it is an honest difference of opinion. I've seen threads on DSB, and Starboard that had 1-2 people making what seemed decent rational points being accused of the equivelent of drivel by whichever majority was in the thread that disagreed with the poster.
As I said though, I didn't know if the poster in this thread was someone with an axe to grind or if they had more information than most, which seems to be anectdotal.

While my comment wasn't directed at you, but at the fact that I'd simply seen slander and libel come up more than a couple of times recently, if there is evidence of some quality problems, I think AWI would have to spend multiple thousands just to get a lawyer to look at the case, not even considering the real chances of winning. If people can go outside a company business and call the owners all sorts of names and not be sued on the grounds of free speech, I just don't see where anyone outside of 1-2 cases I can think of off hand where a successful slander/libel suit would succeed.

We are not Britain or France after all, at least not yet :)

I really don't know if AWI had significant issues prior to, during or after anyone's employment there. If there was, then that moots to an extent some coments that he/she is just a disgruntled worker.
If AWI does in fact have a fine record similar to someone like say a Salifert, then I would assign credibility to the one with the proven track record, as far as trying to make an informed buying decision.

I think you will also find that the conclusion barebottoms (and those of us who shopped the BOM) came to was that there is no savings in building your own. The before shipping price is not even competative, add in shipping and the "extras" that the reputable vendors offer, and there is no comparison. These ARE very simple units with very little technical know how needed to build a good one. As I stated, most folks can't source the materials to build one cheaper than they can buy. The second fact is that MOST people don't want to build one, instead they want to purchase a unit with the expectation that it will be worth the money they pay for it.

I'm not sure I agree, or I've missed something. Barebottoms is actually a 6 cannister system, not a 4 + DI. When I checked H20, I saw they are asking $249 for the Chlormine unit, not sure what AWI's model is pricewise. But I would agree that for most reefers, considering the hobby, spending $130 or so versus $200 for pre-built is not outrageous nor stupid. Just seems like ~50% that could be saved, and quite likely would if people really knew how easy they are to knock together in an hour. Borrow a reef buddies TDS meter once in a while if you don't want to spring for one.
But getting the TDS meter and some of the gadgets when factored in is not a bad deal in retrospect.
I might be off because Barebottoms built a DI-only for me initially, and I later -bought- a 4 canister RO/DI unit from Aqua-safe(?) on eBay for $85 shipped. I don't make very much water, however the non-replaceable DI lasted more than a year for me, and still was giving me 1 ppm TDS readings.
I got some sheet steel from the local steel recycler long enough to fit 6 cannisters, and am going to give Calfo's DI only suggestion a shot with seperate DI cannisters and dual or triple carbons. I still think there are quality issues with going DI only, as I like the actual filtration the RO gives. Shall find out.

If moggyhill knows so much she would have opened her own company OR be pushing people to build their own. Yes there may be a good markup, but that comes with quantity purchases of raw materials. Moggy is just a disgruntled ex-employee trying to hurt her former employer by bad mouthing him and sending business to the competition.

That is quite possible. I fell into a Starboard thread where for a while Finaganswake seemed rational. It wasn't until later when there was dancing about this or that or getting caught up in inconsistencies made things a bit more clear.

Happy Reefing to you,
BP


Moggy...
The more you say the more you shove your foot in your mouth. You have been exposed but persist in your effort to appear unbiased and honest... thanks for the entertainment.

badpacket
06/09/2006, 12:36 AM
Hi AZ.

Think I replied in another thread, but Barebottoms is a 6 cannister unit. Doesn't he show that on the BOM? But, as you and Bean say, when you factor in the extras that most of us would buy, the TDS meter, etc, it does raise the cost up to $150+. But, but, the H20 was $249 last I checked, and I didn't see where the eBay ad showed Cat carbon, just a carbon block. If Barebottom's Centaur carbon is no longer top dog, one could order that instead. You may be right on the membrane not being Filmtec, but Barebottoms did seem to have done his research and I would be honestly surprised if it wasn't Filmtec. But if it wasn't I'd agree that it would raise the price, and lower the competitive advantage over DIY.

Buckeyes is indeed a decent price, the CS5 Chloromine is not bad.
Too be fair though, one could take the 6 canister Barebottoms unit, and be able too run a 1 micron sediment, a generic carbon, a good carbon block, and then Cat carbon, RO, DI.
The additional cost would be for $20 for the Filmtec 75 GPD upgrade, the bulk carbon and Cat carbon. Or reduce one carbon and add another DI to really reduce phosphate. Add $5 for a HD water pressure guage, and you then have numerous options to play with. At that point you are probably closer to $200, and its DIY too.

Its a toss-up, build or pay someone to do it for you.
Like I said, I'm pulling apart a 3 stage DI only that was $40, and a 4 stage Aqua-safe from eBay ($85) to make a real 6 stage. My cost is $125 + $5 HD guage, $30 TDS meter, $20 steel, and some Cat carbon ( what do you recomend). So I am spending more than the Buckeye, but the flexibility should allow for some experimenting.

Agreed, not for everyone.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7490850#post7490850 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
The unit barebottom built came out to $126 and change but it still didn't include a pressure gauge, TDS meter, refillable DI cartridge and other things that some of the comparable units come with for just slightly more. It aslo would not be nearly as effective at chloramine removal as the Optima CA with catalytic carbon from PurelyH2O. In his BOM it does not include brand names but I seriously doubt that the membrane is a Dow Filmtec 75 GPD for $26.
If you enjoy building things thats great, but you will not save any money and probably spend a little more in fact.
Buckeyes Typhoon is $159 and comes with a pressure gauge, refillable DI, float valve and other things. Buckeyes 75 GPD Premium is $149 and comes with extras too.

baja_hammer2003
06/09/2006, 05:28 AM
Check out oceanus systems they carry aqua fx products friend just got a great deal on a 100 gpd ro/di barracuda for $209.00 with tds gauge. I have a barracuda and been very happy with it for over a year now.

AZDesertRat
06/09/2006, 07:51 AM
Both Air Water & Ice and PurelyH2O sell replacement catalytic carbon and refillable cartridges. There are probably others out there too but I am not aware of any at this point.