New to saltwater/reefs

[Alque01]

Hello all, I am a newbie just shedding my freshwater wings.

This cite is awesome, and I am about to lose my job reading all these post.

I lost my 55 gallon freshwater cichlid set up after like 5yrs, had mucho plant life, and mutt cichlid babies all over the place. Lost the tank because of 1. Tank was almost 15-20yrs old...#2 Despite my best efforts I don’t think it was perfectly level, and it had a stress seam blowout. I lost all my fish, and flooded my and my neighbor’s apartment. That was 2 years ago, and now I am getting a 90-gallon set up for early father’s day present.


It has been my dream to set up a reef/fish tank. I got a little discouraged when I learned that some fish couldn’t exist in a reef tank, and some of the extra lighting requirements. But viewing some of the TOTM (tank of the months) I believe there is a way.

My first question is:
1. Should I start my tank with the reef system in mind?
My plan is to buy some live sand and cycle my tank. Then buy some LR and cycle the tank. Then some small invertebrate and cycle the tank. Then some easy corals or mushrooms etc.
a. Can I start with LS and LR at the same time.

2. What kinda fish can I keep with a reef system?
Some books I read have only a few reef compatible fish. Others have fish that are not available in my LFS. My wife really wants and likes the fish, I like the invertebrate life and the small fish.

3. Is there a hobby group in Baton Rouge, or South Louisiana?
I have googled it countless times and I keep ending up here. Please fill me in if there is one, maybe a club or organization. Looking for some freebies on the LS and maybe some invertebrate.

That is all for now, I don’t want my post to go to long, being a newbie and all.

PS.
Last questions, I got a few books on order, along with some other resources, can yall recommend some must haves?

I will start setting up my tank this weekend

[Alque01]

Okay...sorry scratch question 1. didnt read far enough I guess, Just caught a really good thread.

Proceed!

[tkeracer619]

Your tank should only cycle once. Live rock and live sand will cycle the tank.

Take your time and set up a small quarenteen system.

www.liveaquaria.com has some good info on which fish you can and can't keep.

[tjhallock]

Hello Alque. As far as answering numbers 1-2, I can't help you much, as I'm getting into the reef hobby as well. There is a reef club in LA. The website can be accessed here: http://lareefclub.com - good group of guys there. I also live in southern LA.

[RobNJ]

[welcome]

[saltfever]

I agree only cycle once get the LR and LS and cycle it then you are good to go. If you plan on a reef tank in the long run get only things that are for a reef tank or you will run into problems down the road! Just to let you know as for fish I would stay away from damsel fish for a reef setup. The reason I say this is they are what most people get for there first fish and they regret it. In a reef tank they are not the best choice because of how agressive they get. Once you have all your LR in the tank it makes it hard to remove a $4 damsel that is terrorizing every fish in your tank. As for lighting if you plan on a reef tank plan on some very good lighting! When you get some lighting get the best you can afford so you wont have to upgrade in the future. If your looking to get some good lighting cheap check out the selling or DIY forums. I agree with tkeracer619 check out www.liveaquaria.com they have some good info and they are great to order from if you decide to order livestock online. And remember only bad things happen fast in reef keeping. Take your time and do it right the first time and you will be happier and save more money in the end.

[Acillaton]

First, welcome to the hobby.....
There is a lot of good books, but for the beggining I would recommend a "Natural Reef Aquariums" autor John H. Tullock and "Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook" by Dr. Robert J. Goldstein.
Good Luck!!!!

[saltfever]

IMO you can learn much more from surfing the web then from books. Not only are books very dated and may be out of date by the time you read it. But they allso dont offer prices and detailded information on specific fish with in a family like some web sites do. Some books are great but allot of the time you can learn more from the web not to mention its free. I forgot to say WELCOME TO REEFKEEPING in my last post so WELCOME and good luck.

[Alque01]

Thanks guys, for the warm welcome and the good info.

Keep it coming.

tjhallock...I registered on that site you gave me, looks great thanks.

[bertoni]

For a reef tank, I would recommend:

[ericsbook]

and

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890087386/reeflink/103-6119852-4390246

Scott Michael has a number of books worth purchasing, IMO.

[Alque01]

Just got the tank in last night.

Got Red Sea Salt.

Live Sand From Aquatic Specialties.
Waiting on some live rock.

Below are some pics from a dry freshwater run. I wanted to make sure it was level with water in it. I had to put water in the sump chamber up top to get it to level out. I may try a little wedge on the front right just to get it in perfect balance. Please look at the pictures and tell me if the tank is balanced enough.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/th_TANKPICS.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANKPICS.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/th_TANKPICS002.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANKPICS002.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/th_TANKPICS001.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANKPICS001.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/th_TANKPICS003.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANKPICS003.jpg)


Last thing...I am getting a samll leek from the inlet and outlet lines. I dont know if there are some beter compression fittings or something that I can use.

Not sure if the little o-rings that came with it are supposed to go on the inside of the tank or underneath next to the nut ring.

PM or e-mail or post it here, any help appreciated.

[bertoni]

The balance looks close enough to me. I don't know what kind of hardware you have, so I can't help much with the leaking.

[Alque01]

Okay, update.

I added salt to the tank yesterday. My salinity is at 1.021.

I tried but i couldnt wait to add the live sand. I added it last night around 1AM.

The water is starting to clear up. I am going to add another 40 pounds of dead sand. I will carefully mix it into the LS.

I really was unhapy mith my sump set up. I bought the system used at a really good price. So I have no instructions and limited knowledge. I finally set it up after hours of tinkering....It is kinda louder than I thought. The splash from the return is what I hear most.

But after scouring the internet, I realive that not only is my protein skimmer a bad one, CPR. But is is underrated for my system. I googled it and found out it was rated for only a 60 gallon.

Another thing that has me worried. I think I underated the importance of refugiums, and calcium reactors, and other water conditioning devices. If there is a top 3 must haves for a starting Reefer, what would they be, in order of importance.

I will begin testing the tank tonight for the nitrogen cycle.


***Please forgive in misspells, I have been up all night watching a tank of sand:crazy1:

[Shooter7]

I would encourage you to get your plumbing/sump situation figured out first and make sure that's running well before you go much further. Much easier to deal with now than after you have a whole tank full of living things to worry about keeping alive while you mess with the nuts and bolts of the system. Actually, to me in that picture your sump looks kind of small. Might want to consider something bigger, especially if you want to do a refugium. I'm not sure what kind of reef you think you want to eventually have as there are variations. It could be a softy reef, an SPS or stony coral reef, or a mixed reef combining these two approaches. The choices you have are going to be decided by the approach you wish to pursue. I would advise you to kick back a little now, before you go any further with your tank, and try to figure out exactly what it is you hope to achieve. So, beyond the sump thing I mentioned above, you wanted input on at least three "top" things, so here goes:

1.) The best protein skimmer you can afford. In your application, however, you have to remember that it has to be able to fit in your stand, both footprint and height, and you have to leave room to get the cup off.

2.) Lighting. From your picture it looks as though you're going to be very underlit for any corals. This choice is going to be one of those driven by the type of reef you wish to do. If you think an SPS reef is in your near future, I would suggest going the direction of metal halides right from the start, or possibly T-5's.

3.) Flow. Water movement is very important in moving nutrients so they are available to the corals and for keeping waste kicked up so that it can be filtered out. I would suggest Tunze or Seio pumps. I have a pair of Seio 1500's in my 120 gal and they move some water.

Still, there are many other things that are important too. Like a quality titanium heater, good test kits (salifert), a refractometer rather than a hydrometer (I'd bump your salinity up to 1.025), some books like the ones Bertoni suggested above, and patience - especially with what you will go through with a new tank setup. Good luck.

[Alque01]

I am looking at going t-5's. Just searching the internet for some good prices. I think MH are going to be to hot for my set up. Besides my wife wont let it look to ugly, pendants hanging from the ceiling may be a little much for my living room.

I am looking a protein skimmers now. WOW some are expensive. My sump is 20 gallons and too small for the
refugium. But is it big enough for a 90 gallon tank otherwise. I read that it was suffcient. I may add a 10 gallon refugium later.

Does anyone have a protein skimmer for sale or can recommend a good buy somewhere?

What about RO/DI...is something I should be looking into?

[DSMawd21]

Yea i would def start with LR and LS i did on myu first tank and i have a 25 gallon i am new to the hobby as of feb. and i love it and am soo addicted to this site i catch myself hitting refresh! lol! i would def keep making your tank a reef tank thats how mine is turning out and is getting ready for halide!!

[Shooter7]

Yes, you should definitely be looking into RO/DI. And a skimmer is going to be a bit tricky since it looks as though you don't have alot of room in that sump, so your skimmer footprint will have to fit in it (if you use an in sump skimmer) - so can't recommend a skimmer without knowing how much room you have in footprint and height. A tank the size of yours needs a pretty decent skimmer. A refugium would be a good thing. Also, you will need better than a hundred pounds of live rock. A new setup is not a cheap endeavor...took me over a year to get things together for my 120 gal. Also, not all metal halide lights are pendants, many aren't. Mine aren't.

[Alque01]

@DS...I am with you, some guys drink, some guys gamble, some reef!

@Shooter...Yeah I had it at around 100lbs. I was at a fish store that was closing out. LR on sale for around $2.35lb. But the LR looked pretty scummy, it had plenyty of brown looking algae. I didnt see much other growth like I see in tanks. I thought about buying it scrubbing it a little and putting it in my tank.

How do you tell how healthy live rock is?

How much heat do your MH put off. Also, what top do you have on your tank? ANy pics?

I had measured my sump tank but I dont have the measurements with me...I will get them this afternoon.

[Shooter7]

I have pics of the tank, but not the canopy. The canopy is a somewhat clunky homemade job done by me. Basically, it's a box that is open on top. I like having the lights available if I'm working in the tank so I mounted a couple of reflectors on the bottom of a board and suspended the whole board from the ceiling with hooks and decorative chains. This way I can just raise the lights up if I need them out of the way to work or even remove the whole canopy, as they are separate from it. As far as heat from the lights goes, as I said the top is open, so that disperses some heat. The tank is in the basement, so that helps with the stability of room temp. And the sump is on the concrete floor in the room behind the tank, so that makes it more open and easier to cool off.

[Alque01]

Send me some pics. Your tank is way bigger than mine, but i am still looking for ideas as to how to set this thing up.

I only have 80lbs of live sand in the tank now, I think I want to add about 40 more pounds of Carib Araonite. I am raising the Salt level to 1.024.

I think 120lbs of sand should be okay?!?!


I really need to see some lighting.

[Shooter7]

PM sent

Actually, my tank isn't all that much bigger. Should be the same length and height, mine is six inches deeper front to back though.

Lighting in pictures is inaccurate. On my tank with the 12k reeflux bulbs, I get just the amount of blue I want in there. Crisp white with blue highlight. However, when I take pics, they come out really blue - much more blue than in person. The pics I sent you are after using the white balance selection on the camera. Those do a great job of showing the true colors of the corals and fish, but the lights are actually more blue in person than in those pictures. From what I've seen and read on here, most folks have alot of trouble getting a true color pic of their tanks and lighting. If possible, check out lighting in person.

As far as the sand goes, I have a shallow sand bed, don't know how many pounds. I'm kind of a dual bare bottom and shallow sand tank. My rocks were placed on bare bottom and the area underneath all the rocks is bare bottom. I poured sand in around the front of the rocks for the look and to help give them some traction in holding their position. What you're going to do with your sand is pretty much up to you. I am having trouble with getting the flow I want without drifting my sand.

[Alque01]

I think I am going to add a power head to the others side of my tank to creat more flow. Right now the water from my intake pipe is clearing the sand off the bottom of the tank. I had to adjust it to skim across the top.

[Shooter7]

To answer your PM:

Thanks for the compliments. :)
Tank was set up on New Year's weekend this year, so has been up 5 full months now.

[bertoni]

As far as heat goes, I think a watt is a watt, and T5 vs MH isn't much of an issue. I have a 150 W MH sitting on top of a plastic tank cover for a 20g with no heat problems.

[Sk8r]

. Should I start my tank with the reef system in mind?
My plan is to buy some live sand and cycle my tank. Then buy some LR and cycle the tank. Then some small invertebrate and cycle the tank. Then some easy corals or mushrooms etc.
a. Can I start with LS and LR at the same time.
YES. You can. You can start straight with sps if your lighting is up to it, but I recommend building up the live sand, then inverts, then a few fish, then corals.

2. What kinda fish can I keep with a reef system?
Some books I read have only a few reef compatible fish. Others have fish that are not available in my LFS. My wife really wants and likes the fish, I like the invertebrate life and the small fish. Depends on tank size. Plan for the adult size of the fish. They will get there , and they may live 20 years. Reef safe fish does not mean they won't eat each other, it only means they won't eat corals. Ask about compatibility.

3. Is there a hobby group in Baton Rouge, or South Louisiana?

Can't help you there.

[Shooter7]

3. This is what I can find for you with regards to number three on your list:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=819533

...and it looks like a pretty active group! Lucky you. :cool:

[Alque01]

I am going to use this as y diary for the tank I will try to keep it up to date on the tak, with new post with every new addition.

I just ordered Octopus NW-110 Needle-Wheel.

The foot print is perfect for my smallish sump. The price was perfect for my smallish wallet.

I will let you guys know on this thread how it all works out.

Thanks again Shooter for the input.

[RobNJ]

shooter is my hero :)

[Alque01]

Okay, I dont know who is still reading but, I just finished setting up my LR, i think it came out pretty nice. I got my rock offline from http://stores.ebay.com/Life-Oceanic. I would suggest them for anyone living in the South East. I Got three day service even with a Hurricane ALberto. (It would have been two days)

Well anyway, please tell me what you think of how I have my tank set up.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/th_DSCF0216.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/DSCF0216.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/th_DSCF0215.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/DSCF0215.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/th_DSCF0214.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/DSCF0214.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/th_DSCF0211.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/DSCF0211.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/th_DSCF0210.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/DSCF0210.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/th_DSCF0209.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/DSCF0209.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/th_DSCF0207.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/DSCF0207.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/th_DSCF0206.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/Alque01/TANK%20WITH%20LR/DSCF0206.jpg)

[BenWilsonX]

how many pounds of LR is that, roughly? and did you mention what kind it is (fiji, carribean, etc)?

Ben

[Alque01]

All together about 100lbs.
30 from LFS
70 from online.

LFS Tonga and others.

Online Fiji premium.

What do you think of the aquascape.

[Shooter7]

Looks very good. Hope it is balanced well. Hard to tell just looking at a pic from the front, but just want to make sure you don't have a large avalanche and that entire collection of rock falls forward through your front pane of glass. :eek1:

Also, it looks like you're kind of close to the glass on the ends. IMHO, I always do my rock with enough room from the glass to allow a magnetic glass cleaner to get through, otherwise you will have algae/coralline build up there and be cursing not being able to clean it off. You might want to check your clearance. Otherwise, looks great...congrats. :cool:

[Shooter7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7504751#post7504751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobNJ
shooter is my hero :)

Well, thank you.

I missed this before, so thank you very much. :)




er...you weren't being sarcastic....right? :hmm2:


:cool: