Help with PH, Alkalinity, and Calcium

[bosworth]

My ph is off the chart on the high side, my calcium is at 500 and my alkalinity is around 90 mg/l. How can I increase the akalinity while decreasing the PH. By the way my tank is 1/2 way through it's initial nitrogen cycle.

[lessans]

I have a few questions for you. What brand of salt are you using? Are you using RO/DI water or tap water. Your calcium level is fine. You will need to be more concerned about your calcium ion level when you introduce calcium consuming organisms (snails, SPS coral, LPS coral, etc.) after your nitrogen cycle is complete. I would just keep testing your water regularly until the nitrogen cycle is complete. I know pH and alkalinity aren't really related to nutrient concentration in the water column, but I wouldn't be too worried right now.

If your pH and alkalinity levels are still abnormal when your cycle is complete, I would PM Randy Holmes-Farley (he's a chemist by profession) about your problem. He probably knows the chemistry of your problem better than anyone on this site b/c he's a chemist. Good Luck

[lessans]

I forgot to ask: What pH is your water (be specific)?

[lessans]

Crap I forgot to ask another question. What is your specific gravity level?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My ph is off the chart on the high side, my calcium is at 500 and my alkalinity is around 90 mg/l. How can I increase the akalinity while decreasing the PH. By the way my tank is 1/2 way through it's initialnitrogen cycle.

What is the pH? Unless you are adding a high pH additive like limewater, I suspect you do not really have high pH, but rather a measurement error.

If you truly did have high pH and low alkalinity (an unlikely combination), then ordinary grocery store baking soda is a perfect way to boost alkalinity as it has a slight pH lowering effect, at least when first added.

These articles have more:

High pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

He probably knows the chemistry of your problem

Thanks :)

[1SickReefer]

He probably knows the chemistry of your problem

Thanks :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Lemme fix that....

He Definitely knows the chemistry of your problem :D

[bosworth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7452165#post7452165 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lessans
I have a few questions for you. What brand of salt are you using? Are you using RO/DI water or tap water. Your calcium level is fine. You will need to be more concerned about your calcium ion level when you introduce calcium consuming organisms (snails, SPS coral, LPS coral, etc.) after your nitrogen cycle is complete. I would just keep testing your water regularly until the nitrogen cycle is complete. I know pH and alkalinity aren't really related to nutrient concentration in the water column, but I wouldn't be too worried right now.

If your pH and alkalinity levels are still abnormal when your cycle is complete, I would PM Randy Holmes-Farley (he's a chemist by profession) about your problem. He probably knows the chemistry of your problem better than anyone on this site b/c he's a chemist. Good Luck

Ok here is the full run down on my current problem. This is a new tank its 50g. I have 50 lb. CaribSea Special Grade Reef Sand and 20 lbs. of CariSea AgraAlive sand, it has 40 lbs. of AgraCrete DIY rock (cured for 8 weeks, the mix was white portland cement, crushed coral, and CaribSea Special Grade Reef Sand) and 4 lbs. of Cured LR from the LFS.

I started the cycling of the tank a week ago with 3 uncooked cocktail shrimp. The tank is filled with RO/DI and I measured the TDS at o ppm before I added it to the tank. I am using Instant Ocean salt and my salinity is 1.025. I am using a Hagen Master Test Kit for all of my tests.

The PH is literally off the chart from a color stand point. My test kit shows a dark blue color at 8.6, my color has a slight purple tinge. I have tried two seperate test kits and also measured my ro/di tap water a base base line and the kit is working fine. The initial cycle seems to be going fine except for this Alkalinity PH issue.

I know I need a better means of checking PH and my AquaController Jr should be here Friday, so the test kit will have to do for now.

I have tried a couple of things. First I did a 10% water change approximately 5g. I did not see any significant change. Next I tried 2 teaspoons of Baking Soda, again no significant change. I believe my total system volume with sump is around 45 gallons. I know this is an unusual condition, but I believe I have started with the optimum conditions and I feel that this condition would only exist with an over treatment of a buffering solution. Help?
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i47/masterboz/DSC_4710.jpg

[bosworth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7452832#post7452832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
My ph is off the chart on the high side, my calcium is at 500 and my alkalinity is around 90 mg/l. How can I increase the akalinity while decreasing the PH. By the way my tank is 1/2 way through it's initialnitrogen cycle.

What is the pH? Unless you are adding a high pH additive like limewater, I suspect you do not really have high pH, but rather a measurement error.

If you truly did have high pH and low alkalinity (an unlikely combination), then ordinary grocery store baking soda is a perfect way to boost alkalinity as it has a slight pH lowering effect, at least when first added.

These articles have more:

High pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

He probably knows the chemistry of your problem

Thanks :)

I appreciate all of the feedback so far.

Check my post above. I have not added any additional supplements or additives out side of the single treatment of baking soda.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Artificial live rock is a big pH booster. It usually requires a lot of rinsing/soaking before it can be added. How did you treat yours?

[bosworth]

The rock soaked in water that was changed every three days for 8 weeks. This is the long side of the recommended period of time.

[bosworth]

If the problem is the DIY rock, should I wait for the nitrogen cycle to finish before I begin regular water changes, or should I do say a 5% cahnge every 3 days or so during the initial cycle?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if the pH is correct, more aeration will help bring down the pH,and if that is not enough, soda water would be my choice. The high pH article above has more. You may need to add it daily for a while.
My suggestion is to confirm the pH with a recently calibrated pH meter before embarking on such an endeavor in case the kit is off. pH kits are often not especially accurate.