Purple tang with ich or marine velvet

[rm41400]

I posted this in the disease section too, I wanted to get your thoughts too.

Not sure what my tang has, its either Ich or marine velvet.
I am in the research phase on treatment and want to make sure I treat for the correct parisite. What would be the best way to distinguish between the two?

All the pictures of fish with ich have about 1/2 the spores(?) as my tang. However, the pictures with marine velvet have about 2x the spores.... Here is some background.

Day #1 Saturday
I bought the tang from petco from a tank with two other tangs with white spots. This purple tang looked clear of any spots and had been in there for the last two days. I have a quarintine tank and planned to quarintine for 4-6weeks if it did not develope signs of ich/mv, longer if it did.

Day#2 Sunday
I notice small white sptos on the fish over the entire body. These spots almost look like micro air bubbles. I decide to add a 1/2 dose of Malachite Green.

Day#3

This moring the fish looked good. Swiming about with normal breathing. The white spots are much bigger now. They are about the size of a grain of salt.

I plan to begin a hyposalinity treatment for about 6 weeks. Any thoughts?

[theop]

I don't know what marine velvet looks like, but here are some rules of thumb:

1. Petco = ich
2. Tang = ich

Your fish has ich. I'd start therapy immediately with hypo and feed with garlic extract.

[dj synystr]

i never buy a fish from a tank with ich mates unless i have a set up QT tank. and u only need to QT it usually 14 days to see if it has ich. but your fish has ich and when you see the dots its when they parasite is full and about to release its larva into the water.

[rm41400]

Thanks for the replies.

DJ- I had a QT already set up, so that was the only reason I took a chance.

Day #3 continued

I stopped by Petco and talked to the manager.They had like ten tangs that were bad off with ich. They offered a full refund or a 14 day guarantee. I opted for the 14 day guarantee, if I returned it I am sure it would just die.

I also bought a High PH kit to make sure that the PH was correct before I do a FW dip. In addition I lowered my tanks salinity from 1.024 ppm to 1.020ppm. I will continue to lower over the next 2 days untill I am @ 1.010 ppm.

COMMENTS ARE WELCOME

[Angela Short]

I would go ahead and drop the SG down faster than that to keep any that fall off no chance to reattach. Just check the ph as you do as it drops. They can go down real fast but up in SG slowly. You need to go to 1.09 to be effective also and use a refracometer which I am sure you are. A fw dip will just make some fall off bbut not cure him. I think it only stresses the fish for no reason especially since you are dropping the SG in the qt to a point that the free swimmers are not gonna live to re infect the fish anyways. The ones that fall off with a FW dip have already done the damage and almost ready to rupture anyways so I would forgo the dip but this is JMO. As you know a fish in a tank with infected fish will 99.9% have it so good job for having a QT waiting. He would have surley died if left there.

IF its Marine Velvet it is unaffected by low salinity, copper is med of choice. It looks more like dust instead of salt grains. I think from what you have described it is ICK.

[rm41400]

Thanks for the input Angela!

I agree on it being ich I am treating for it now.

Day #3 Monday Afternoon

Lowered the salinity to about 1.018. Made up a FW dip with one drop Malchite green. Dipped for 2 minutes. Fish looked really bad so I cut the dip short.

Day #4 Tues morn

Fish looks more alert. It still has large white spots though. I will lower to 1.009 when I get home tonight.

[Angela Short]

Reaserch is showing you can drop them safely straight into 1.009 as long as the ph is the same, just bring them up slowley. Get that SG down to 1.009 tonight as Ick can still survive at the level its at and even at 1.010. It is very important to stay on top of hypo for it to work properly. Check SG at least 2x daily and adjust acordingy. I would also not do anymore FW dips and drop the Malacite green also, uneeded stress ;). Just stay the course with hypo and it will work. Good luck!

[rm41400]

Thanks! sounds good. I was thinking the same thing on the Dip. The tang seems to be the worse its been during and after the FW dip.

I will drop the QT all the way down to 1.009 tonight. I have a refractometer and will stay on it. I also have some Baking soda and a PH kit for the water I will add.

Quick question. I have two options for lowering the SG.

option #1 drain about 10 gals out of the QT and run my RO water straight into the tank for a gadual lowering of the SG. TEst PH and adjust in QT tank with Baking soda as needed.

option #2 Make up a couple buckets of FW and adjust Ph. Drain tank. Dump in new buckets.

[Angela Short]

I would adjust the PH before I put it in the qt as you can way overshoot the PH with baking soda. And you can drip the FW in after you take the 10 gallons out slowley with a air tube. I did it with a small knot so it ran 5 gallons in about a hour, so it was a pretty good stream instead of a drip... It takes tons of FW to get the SG down surprisingly. Good luck and keep on the amonia also. What are you using as bio? The amonia can spike real fast in a uncycled QT, this may be part of his sudden health decline moreso than the FW dip. Is he still eating?

[Angela Short]

I noticed per your other thread you have LR in there so definetly keep a close eye on the ammonia as the inevitable die off of the fauna. It can have tons of critters hidding you have never seen. Have lots of new SW mixed for water changes and you should be fine!

[Mobikob]

I agree with Angela. In a QT Copper would be the treatment of choice. now would be a good time to start a garlic supplement also.

Mobi:D

[Angela Short]

Copper on tangs can be iffy, especially if he is weak. Tangs and angels do not tolerate copper well. Low salinity actually relives the stress and energy it takes to osmoregulate so I would stick with hypo. And the lesions left after the ick falls off will heal faster in lower salinity. Hypo takes longer but is not a poision. If I was in a hurry on my QTing and the fish was not already weak from disease I would use copper but in his case I think hypo is his best bet. There is a fine line with copper for a theraputic dose anyways, too much kills fish, too little does no good. And copper has to be done in a bare tank with a sponge filter for bio. Any substraight or rocks absorb it and you can't keep the levels theraputic. AHHH gotta love the PITA disease can be! This is why I haven't added any new fish in a long, long time!

[theop]

I hope you are doing hypo in a QT tank and not the main tank with your LR in it. That is a fast way to have a big die-off on your live rock.

[rm41400]

Thanks for the replies.

Day #4

The tang was dead when I got home.... I was going to adjust the sg last night too. I am confident that it was the FW malchite dip that did it too. Because he looked really good on day 3.

As a side note I have a lawnmower blenny in the same tank that was also in QT. He looks fine and has looked fine through out the last few days. He does not appear to have ich either. What should I do with him? Treat the tank with hypo or just leave him in there for another couple weeks to make sure he is in good health, then do a FW dip prior to putting him in the display? Or do hypo with him for 4-6 weeks eventhough he shows no signs of ich? The main thing is tha I DONT WANT ich in my main tank, that is why I have a qt.