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cwegescheide
06/12/2006, 12:36 PM
I know this has been done to death probably but no search..

I added a tang to my tank over the weekend and I've noticed he's scratching himself on the rocks. I didn't see any visible spots on him but want to be sure he doesn't have or I could treat him and the other fish for ich.

I know foods fortified in Garlic help but what else would be good to add in a reef?

I know I know.. I should have quarenteened and am in the process of setting up a tank for this.. ;)

Thanks,
Chris

Kubi
06/12/2006, 01:18 PM
cleaner shrimp/ lower salinity as much as possible without putting more stress on the fish or other tank inhabitants/keep it eating. do not waste your money on any of the so called reef safe ick cures. worse comes to worse pull out and treat ina q tank...good luck

Vegas_ReefMan
06/12/2006, 01:31 PM
Go to www.nosickfish.com i just got done using the ich treatment from them, it is safe on everything

bureau13
06/12/2006, 02:01 PM
Vegas_ReefMan, how bad was your outbreak and what was the result? Try to be specific.

I've used Ich Attack in the past, and it "seemed to work" but I have no real proof. The fish recovered, but sometimes they just do that.

jds

LargeAngels
06/12/2006, 02:24 PM
Remove all the fish.
Medicate in a quarentine tank w/copper based medication.
Leave reef tank fishless for 4-6 weeks.

mikeatjac
06/12/2006, 02:30 PM
LargeAngels is right. The only proven way to remove ich.

Sk8r
06/12/2006, 02:36 PM
The only medication safe for a reef tank that I know of is Maracyn and it doesn't work on ich, which is a parasite.
The reason no effective treatment exists that is reef safe is that you are, in effect, forced to poison an invertebrate [the ich organism, which is parasitic on fish]. If you find an agent that kills this parasite, you will end up killing your pods, at minimum, and various other useful things, possibly including things on which your tank relies. My advice is never use anything of that sort in your tank.

Copper kills every living thing including fish, but you keep the dose low enough to kill the parasite without killing the fish. And of course a tank/pump/tubing/nets, etc. once used for copper is worthless for reef use.

bureau13
06/12/2006, 04:03 PM
Here is what I don't understand...and I'm going through a similar problem myself at the moment. If I get a fish in my display tank that has ich, then conventional wisdom is that the tank has it until it goes fishless for 6 weeks or whatever. OK, so what if I have, say, my clownfish in there. They never get ich, no idea why, they just don't. So, if there is no fish which has ich for six weeks, is that the same as no fish at all for six weeks? And if not, why not? The ich parasite needs a fish host...if there are no "ichy" fish, what's it hosting on? Can ich "host" on a fish without actually showing up, i.e. the fish is a carrier, just not sick? And if your answer is yes, is that an actual proven fact, or just conjecture because it kind of makes sense?

There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there about it, including of course all the various remedies which may or may not work. Something introduced ich into my new display tank and wiped out a number of fish. I thought it was a fish that I had just introduced, as he showed signs earliest, however I'm not sure the timeframe fits the parasite's life cycle. I don't know...I just don't see me tearing the tank apart to get my clownfish out at this point.

jds

LargeAngels
06/12/2006, 06:00 PM
bureau13: Yes, there is a lot of misinformation and a lot of "snake oil." A few things that have been proven is "hypo" for ich, but it doen't work for velvet (which is a much more aggressive parasite) but can't be done with inverts. FW dips work for velvet, but not really for ich, and it only forces the parasite that has been on the host for more than 24 hours to fall off. It doesn't kill it. UV kills parasites, but the only documented data on fish parasites is its ability to keep the parasite from tank to tank transfer. Such as at a large wholesaler. It does NOT rid an infested tank of parasites, only helps some in reduction of parasites.

Copper kills both ich and velvet. The best, and least toxic to fish, is Cupramine. Cupramine is an excellent parasitic medication and can be used with even copper sensitive fish such as multicolor angels.

Also, fish can develop immunities to ich and velvet and what ever the person has done seems to "cure" the ich so now "that" is what cures ich.

BTTRFLYGRL
06/12/2006, 06:45 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7545944#post7545944 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cwegescheide
I know this has been done to death probably but no search..

I added a tang to my tank over the weekend and I've noticed he's scratching himself on the rocks. I didn't see any visible spots on him but want to be sure he doesn't have or I could treat him and the other fish for ich.

I know foods fortified in Garlic help but what else would be good to add in a reef?

I know I know.. I should have quarenteened and am in the process of setting up a tank for this.. ;)

Thanks,
Chris





:eek: :eek2: :eek: You bad boy!!!!

I wouldn't treat until your sure its ich.....then I agree with LargeAngels..Only way is to remove and treat with either Hypo or Copper

What kind of Tang? If it was a Hippo, Powder Blue or Brown...its probably ich:(

bureau13
06/12/2006, 07:21 PM
Hmmm...Cupramine eh? Do you know anything about Copper Safe? Naturally, that's what I just bought :-(


jds

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7547996#post7547996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LargeAngels
bureau13: Yes, there is a lot of misinformation and a lot of "snake oil." A few things that have been proven is "hypo" for ich, but it doen't work for velvet (which is a much more aggressive parasite) but can't be done with inverts. FW dips work for velvet, but not really for ich, and it only forces the parasite that has been on the host for more than 24 hours to fall off. It doesn't kill it. UV kills parasites, but the only documented data on fish parasites is its ability to keep the parasite from tank to tank transfer. Such as at a large wholesaler. It does NOT rid an infested tank of parasites, only helps some in reduction of parasites.

Copper kills both ich and velvet. The best, and least toxic to fish, is Cupramine. Cupramine is an excellent parasitic medication and can be used with even copper sensitive fish such as multicolor angels.

Also, fish can develop immunities to ich and velvet and what ever the person has done seems to "cure" the ich so now "that" is what cures ich.

Vegas_ReefMan
06/12/2006, 08:16 PM
I had a 75% outbreak of ich, and i have every invert and coral you can think of! This product works! I am doing a water change tomorrow as i finished the treatment and all are in perfect shape, no signs of any ich or damage from the meds! I love www.nosickfish.com their products actually work and are 100% reef safe, i am living proof!

Vegas_ReefMan
06/12/2006, 08:18 PM
They are wrong about the pod death due to medication, as my tank is still crawling with pods both amphi and coppe, so that is not true!

Vegas_ReefMan
06/12/2006, 08:21 PM
The product saved my Naso, red sea sailfin, and PBT tang

Philwd
06/12/2006, 09:39 PM
Here are your nosickfish search results.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=670327&highlight=nosickfish where a person called farmboy ardently defends nosickfish

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=631757&highlight=nosickfish where farmboy is determined to be a company shill

and 3 more very interesting threads
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=699633&highlight=nosickfish
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=670521&perpage=25&highlight=nosickfish&pagenumber=1
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=637569&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

draw your own conclusions.

dale08
06/12/2006, 10:22 PM
well i had some problems too but i treated the tank with marine c and after 2 doses the ick was gone my yellow fin tang had it just about 80% of its body and it cure it and it did no harm too my reef and about once a month i add it too the tank

Nitroq2
06/12/2006, 10:55 PM
I would first make sure there isnt and agressor attacking the fish. If the fish is eating well feed him at least 3 small meals a day and add a little garlic and selcon to the food. A healthy fish= a good immune system and therefore makes it easy to fight off disease. Make sure you water quality is perfect at this point, clean water = less stress = healthier immune system. As for the three meals mix them up with a good variety preferably frozen meals like mysis, marine cuisine and the likes. I think if you do that you will quickly see an improvement in your tank in a whole. Just make sure the extra food doesn't mess up your water quality.
It is my belief that ich (really crypto in saltwater) is always in the tank its just that when fish are unstressed and healthy they are not affected. Also I think cleaner shrimp 2 works better than one and they will be more likely to setup a cleaning station. I learned this recently when I purchased a purple tang who immediately showed signs of ich yet my cleaner wouldn't touch him and he wouldn't go to it. I purchased another cleaner thinking I just had a bad one and immediately they setup a station under an overhang done a few dances and the tang went right to them and they cleaned for a while. 3 days later he was crypto free and I havent seen it since. If you dont see an improvement in a day or two or see a lot of spots come up then I would follow the treatment above with a mild copper treatment and lower salinity.
Allen

Nitroq2
06/12/2006, 11:01 PM
Also feed herbivore foods in with that diet soak them as well

LargeAngels
06/13/2006, 06:43 AM
bureau13: Personally I like Cupramine better, but I know others feel the opposite. There is nothing wrong with Coppersafe, I used to use it in the past and it has been around for a long time. One of the reasons I prefer Cupramine is that some of the more hypersensitive fish, such as multicolor angels, tolerate it very well and it does not get absorbed by calcerous substances like other copper treatments.

cwegescheide
06/13/2006, 06:44 AM
Thanks everybody for the advice. I've got a QT tank I'm setting up as we speak. I have been feeding foods fortified in Garlic 2x/day. He looks ok, there is definatley nobody picking on him. He's the one picking on others if you ask me. never seen a new fish like this one before. He's one TOUGH customer!

Thanks again!
Chris