Compatibilty- Bull Shark- FW sawfish-other

[Ali_Z]

I want to know if the Carcharinhus leucas is compatible with the Pristis microdon. I am also curious as to which other FW/ Brackish fish are compatible with these to species. The Bull Shark and Sawfish will both be of similar size(3.5'-4').

The system will be 35K+ gallons(display) with excellent filtration and well fed specimens.

Thank you,

Ali

[stykthyn]

Is this thread a joke?

[tangyreefer05]

"I am also curious as to which other FW fish are compatible with these to species."

Haha

[MRBONNETHEAD]

Bull Sharks are able to go into freshwater but I would not suggest keeping them in brackish for long periods of time in captivity. I wouldnt think it would be good for them.

[MRBONNETHEAD]

Oh and also what other Sharks have you kept in the past?

[stykthyn]

it is speculated that they only go into fresh to breed or when they are sick so that there is little competition for food. I dont think that longterm captivity in FW will work.

[MRBONNETHEAD]

Me either.
again...
What sharks have you kept in the past?

[sharklover]

I would not put a bull shark with any slower moving shark or ray. They have a nasty habit of eating anything they can catch. The sawfish is also considered part of their natural diet in places where both species occur.

[Ali_Z]

Intresting, what species other than bull and brown sharks are compatible with the bull?

This is not a joke. As of right now nothing is set in stone but I am doing my research.

A member of my family is plannig on opening a carwash and I have suggested that a monster shark tank is the way to seperate yourself from the competition. I was actually first planning on setting this set up in my house, but as of right now my family is in a very ugly divorce so we can not buy or build anything.

I have never kept requeim sharks in my life but I have helped out at several Aquariums and Zoos(AZA establishments) regarding sharks and filtration. I was at the LBC Aquarium a few months ago and knew most of the information about their filtration, right down to where they got it.

I hope I do have enogh experience to handle these behemoths and study them while in captivity.

I truly do believe that sites like this one are excellent in regards to the distribution of knowledge if everyone learns to respect each other. Let us see how this discussin progresses.

Btw, I am planning that my overhead will be around ~$200,000.
Is this correct? I am going to open a thread regarding the filtration for this set up in the filtration forum.

Thank you,

Ali

[stykthyn]

an eight foot shark at a carwash in order to draw customers???
you have got to be joking! If you have even helped with sharks at zooz or aquariums you would know that they would need more than a 35k gallon tank. these animals have a huge range!
stick with oscars, it would be a shame to pay the thousands of dollars that it would cost to purchase and ship such an animal just to have it die.

[lakehorse61]

really.........omg

[MRBONNETHEAD]

THANK YOU stykthyn!!!!!!!!!!
That would be a funnyidea at a dinner table talking with friends...
I have seen Bull Sharks in Florida 10+ feet long eating snook 40+ inches long!!!!!
This is a joke!
Have fun cleaning the tank!!

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7573292#post7573292 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stykthyn
an eight foot shark at a carwash in order to draw customers???
you have got to be joking! If you have even helped with sharks at zooz or aquariums you would know that they would need more than a 35k gallon tank. these animals have a huge range!
stick with oscars, it would be a shame to pay the thousands of dollars that it would cost to purchase and ship such an animal just to have it die.

You have to admit, though, an eight foot shark would definatley make you want to go to that particular carwash. :D

The tank will be between 37-68,000 gallons. That is all depending on the location of the property.

I am expecting to spend around $200,000 on this project. I have already planned the filtration and pumps needed for this project. What do you guys project to be the cost?

[Reiner]

You have got to be the same kid that posted on Waterwolves that he wants to keep a Bengal Tiger or African Lion in his backyard. I have to say you dream very big

[Ali_Z]

That is me. I am going to have big cats in my life time. When I move to Texas or Florida I will have all my Fish, Cats, Herps, and guns. I am going to inhert a VERY large amount of money in the next couple of months.

I do dream big. I think that my creativity is part of what makes me so successful at politics amd debating.

[sharklover]

The only shark I've seen keep their own with bulls is lemon sharks(N. brevirostris). They would have to be the same size or a little larger. I noticed that you are in los angeles. Be aware that the bull shark is a restricted shark in California and you would need a special permit from the Dept. of Fish and Game to possess one in the state.

[Ironsheikh]

IF YOUR OPENING A CAR WASH I WOULD INVEST THE $200,000 IN A FERRARI MODENA AND PARK IT OUT FRONT W/ SOME HOT COLLEGE GIRLS...enough said!

leave the poor sharks in the ocean --no wonder they go around biting people...they are P.O'd!!

What are you gonna do w/ a big cat? they eat like 20 lbs of steak a day! Mike Tyson says he punches his tigers full force in the head and they think he's playing still

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

Good luck getting any ositive feedback on this site. I posted a thread a year or two ago about a huge system and I got hassled and pestered with negative comments. I think you may want to look into black tip reef sharks. Good Luck

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7576058#post7576058 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sharklover
The only shark I've seen keep their own with bulls is lemon sharks(N. brevirostris). They would have to be the same size or a little larger. I noticed that you are in los angeles. Be aware that the bull shark is a restricted shark in California and you would need a special permit from the Dept. of Fish and Game to possess one in the state.

Hmm, that is very intresting. I know a guy over the internet that was offering me bulls. He lives in California. I have also found them for sale several times before. I believe that if they are restricted it couldn't be CITES because they are quite common in Florida. If it is restricted, an aquarium of this size is undoubtedly going to be allowed membership into the AZA.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7576137#post7576137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ironsheikh
IF YOUR OPENING A CAR WASH I WOULD INVEST THE $200,000 IN A FERRARI MODENA AND PARK IT OUT FRONT W/ SOME HOT COLLEGE GIRLS...enough said!

leave the poor sharks in the ocean --no wonder they go around biting people...they are P.O'd!!

What are you gonna do w/ a big cat? they eat like 20 lbs of steak a day! Mike Tyson says he punches his tigers full force in the head and they think he's playing still

That is a good idea but the plan is to make the car wash appealing to ALL people not just the guys. :D

I love anything that is crazy. I get an insane rush from it. That is what pleases me. In my life I want to fly a MiG 29 Fulcrum. I own and have owned animals that are known to be insane. Examples of such are my German Champion working bloodline GSD, my 16" S. Rhombeus, and countless other "insane" animals. I would get the cat if only it were legal. I went and did all my research. Even tried to work at the L.A. Zoo to get a license. Fact is, California dosen't give out exotic animal licenses for "pets", only AZA, Sanctuary, Breeder, or Exhibitor.

Thank you,

Ali

[reffer69]

ok - here is how i see it, the guy/gal wants to make his/her carwash the new hit thing. What you are doiong i see nothing wrong with except the size tank LARGER is needed. U guys seem to be giving hassel instead of ideas/solutions, so lets help him out now put him/her down.

Regarding the cats sumple DONT bother, if you realised the strain on these on the wild, and you HAVE to realise that they are WILD not something you can trust EVER! they are wild and will not think twice about haveing you for lunch. Unless you can give them around 2-3 hecter with around 8 cats for lions or 1 tiger then NO, you would be spending 200,000k on the permets, fencing, food, land and everthing else. Plus i dont think you have any idea what this takes to keep large cats. you would then have to fiugre how you would get it to a vet and find one who will even see it! their not animals you can touch EVER, go talk to zoo keeper they have strict policies with their cats, no contact EVER! NEVER alowd to be in the inclosure without all the animal being sercured in a sercified pen. oww yes the pen would cost you around 50k itself! MIN you nead automatic locks on EVERY door, you NEAD quarteen facilties! you HAVE to keep each animal seperate and have to have someone to watch at night. Best leave these guys in the wild or under PROFFESIONAL care E.G zoos.

PM me if you would like to discuss this further, i will be helpful in this situation, i know alot about these cats and what is required by law.

[Ironsheikh]

"That is a good idea but the plan is to make the car wash appealing to ALL people not just the guys."

get vin diesel and paul walker to come hang out for the opening and the ladies will love you forever...

but seriously, sharks are kinda boring in the aquarium. They just swim in a circle and look for food. Invest in a large display tank w/ nice lions or big fish w/ color

I'd stay w/ the car theme-- drifting seems to be catching on, sponsor some events , hire a dj for the opening, make it a party

I think the cost of maintaining a big shark tank would cost more than you make at the carwash, no?

look at the pics of these tanks
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-860-GALLON-ACRYLIC-TANK-AQUARIUM-BUILT-TO-ORDER_W0QQitemZ7773891125QQihZ018QQcategoryZ20755QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

i think any of these would look equally hot

[reefnewbie54321]

Bull shark and Lemon shark were in the top 5 of most deadliest sharks on the discovery channel last week.

Bull sharks can survive up to 2 years in brackish water but thats no were considered long term and it wouldnt be right to house them in a brackish set-up.

Bull Sharks and Lemon Sharks are not compatable with any other fish/inverts so plan on having only these sharks.

Your tank is to small even at 65k gallons to house Bull/Lemon Sharks. I suggest you look into Black Tip Reef Sharks and Bonnet Head Sharks. Bonnet Head are my personal favorite and are like mini-hammerheads.

This is a very bad bussiness idea. The cost to build and maintain something like this would cost far more then your income would be even with increased revenue that the tank might bring in. If it were me I would hire girls in bikkinis to stand out by the road holding up carwash signs ... I would stop even if I had washed my car in the driveway that morning. This would cost alot less aswell and with less bussiness costs comes more income.

As far as Bulls being legal ... I'm not sure. There is a guy who collects many sharks including Bull's and Lemons and sells them (maybe illegaly) on the forum that I pm'ed you.

I planned to have a 20,000g shallow pond (4ft. tall) that would be built like a rectangle koi pond out of cement. It was going to house Bonnet Heads and Black Tip Reef Sharks. The initial build was not going to cost to much becuase I have experience in cmenting koi ponds and could have done it myself but it was planned to be on a property that had acsess to NSW. I never ended up buying the property and never ended up building my shark tank. I think you have to be a little realistic ... I saw my idea of keeping Black Tips and Bonnet Heads a little farfetched but Bull Sharks in a 65,000g tank that has an acyrilic pane that is 35ft long and 10ft high that is going to be an attraction at a car wash???

[binaryterror]

but Bull Sharks in a 65,000g tank that has an acyrilic pane that is 35ft long and 10ft high that is going to be an attraction at a car wash???
lol:lol:

[sharklover]

Ali,
The reason Bulls are illegal in CA is because they are considered a detrimental species, not because they are protected or because they are over-fished. The state feels that if they were released into the wild they could survive here and that would cause various problems in our ecosystem. As far as getting a permit goes, I don't know what criteria the AZA has for public aquarium designation. My permit is a resident broker/dealer permit that allows me to possess up to 6 bulls at any one time. The permit was not easy to get and they made me jump through a number of hoops. My references from public aquariums from across the country and my 20+ years of shark keeping probably were enough. While Bull and Lemon sharks are aggressive, you could still keep colorful ornamental fish with them as well. Provide some hiding places and keep the sharks well fed and you'll find your fish losses minimal. By the way, what city were you planning to have your car wash in?

[Ali_Z]

reefnewbie54321,


Were you going to use metal rebar? That is a big question for this tank as well. From what I hear, Public Aquariums don't use rebar but lay several meters of concrete. I was thinking of using fiber grate. What do you think?


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7577913#post7577913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sharklover
Ali,
The reason Bulls are illegal in CA is because they are considered a detrimental species, not because they are protected or because they are over-fished. The state feels that if they were released into the wild they could survive here and that would cause various problems in our ecosystem. As far as getting a permit goes, I don't know what criteria the AZA has for public aquarium designation. My permit is a resident broker/dealer permit that allows me to possess up to 6 bulls at any one time. The permit was not easy to get and they made me jump through a number of hoops. My references from public aquariums from across the country and my 20+ years of shark keeping probably were enough. While Bull and Lemon sharks are aggressive, you could still keep colorful ornamental fish with them as well. Provide some hiding places and keep the sharks well fed and you'll find your fish losses minimal. By the way, what city were you planning to have your car wash in?

Thank you for that information. We still don't know where we want to build it. Their is a trade off. Better location, less land. Worse location, more land. A 35'x25'x10' aquarium is VERY space consuming. We need to find a lot that will accomadate all of our needs. I live in the SFV so probably somewhere colse to that.

We were thinking of having colorful fish but then I realized that most colorful fish are reef fish, which are a real NO go w/ sharks. Then I turned to schooling fish like the Golden trevally and Mexican lookdowns. Those fish will last ( I think). I know that if their are "nemo" fishes it would be great but I just don't see it happening in such a big tank. The little kids would literally have to be "finding nemo". :D

[bluerug]

Is this a joke, i am really confused whether this is a joke or not. I do want to go to the moon though and start my own civilazation up there. And i will be ruler of the galaxy,lol.:lol:

[stykthyn]

tell you what Ali, I happen to have 2 bull sharks in my bathtub and a bengal sleeping in my garage. give me $20 and a case of budlight and we can call it even.
Can we get a moderator to close this thread??? this is just ridiculous.

[bluerug]

I second that^, but you gotta admitt this is comical.

[TTU_Reefer]

this is retarded....honestly guys, can I keep a yellow tang in a 40gal?


:)



oh yea..build the tank..get the bulls...get the bikini girls in the tank...id come see that

[reffer69]

ome on guys this is really bad! we should be helping him make the right choice. Ok you sharks nead alot more room go with smaller less sapce needing sharks ok.

If he wants to display it in his car wash then let him do it? dosent matter where it is aslong as he can care for them. If their where sharks at my local gaurage with sharks in it id go by 5 washes! LOL!

[TTU_Reefer]

requiem sharks in personal tanks is wrong and should be illegal...become a diver if you want to see um...end of story

[MRBONNETHEAD]

Woud you guys suggest an Atlantic Sharpnose for my 300?
I want to get people to come see my house.
I think I could fit one or two Lemon Sharks in the hot tub. Its probably about 450 gallons.

But dont worry guys thats just me. Im crazy. I want to fly airplanes when I grow up. I also plan on keeping a cheetah in my bedroom.
Ill post pics.
:rollface:

[Ali_Z]

What is up with the attitude? No one is allowed to act like that here.

[TTU_Reefer]

yea they are, its stupid but its "allowed".


dude..best of luck with ur shark prison, post pics when it is finished

[jnfallon]

IMO Bull sharks are hands down the most unpredictable, aggressive and deadly species.

They DO tolerate fw/brackish indefinately, including full time in Lake Zambezi/Lake Nicaragua.

My business background tells me this is not a money making idea. That being said, neither are my reef tanks, and that doesnt stop me.

Many aquariums keep sand tiger sharks. They are scary looking, but quite predicatble. Might be a better choice, IMHO.

If you have the budget and the *lbls to move forward, I would definately include a seasoned aquarist in your plans from this point forward.

Could build one hell of a reef tank/FOWLR w/ 200k.

[Jeffie]

Bull sharks are generally considered the most dangerous shark housed in public aquariums... They are very unpredictable.
Like stated- if you are really going to plan to do this- Look into other shark species. somthing like black tip reef sharks or bonnetheads. They are a great display animal, easy to acquire and stay a relative descent size..

[LauraCline]

If you want a big tank, get one. Don't keep Bull Sharks in it. I've seen Bulls in the wild and can tell you that they will not survive in the system you are planning. Besides husbandry practices, filtration, compatibility, etc., I doubt they would survive transport and are likely to cause some injuries to humans along the journey if it were undertaken.

The power of these animals is simply amazing. Just to give you an example, years ago while deep sea fishing, I hooked a Black Tip Reef Shark about 3 feet long. While trying to remove the hook and return him to the Gulf, I straddled the shark to hold him still. I weighed at least 10-15 times what he did and had others assisting yet, he still managed to break free and thrash around. He knocked over a completely full 55 gallon drum containing thawing bait squid and to this day, I still have a scar from where his tail slashed my leg. Unfortunately, the captain gaffed and killed the shark to protect the other guests from injury. I can't even imagine trying to capture, transport, house, and maintain an 8 ft. Bull. Before you even consider this undertaking, I urge you to view an 8 ft. animal in the wild.

"You have to admit, though, an eight foot shark would definatley make you want to go to that particular carwash"

Maybe but, it would not make me actually purchase a car wash. From a marketing/business prospective, this sounds like a disaster in the making. I urge you to get some very serious market research before you make this investment. Where do I even start? First, the breakeven on this expenditure is astronomical. How many carwashes need to be sold to recoup the cost including ongoing maintenance? Not only that, how will you spread the word about the tank enough to get people in LA (or anywhere for that matter) to drive there and purchase a car wash? I used to live in LA, traffic is a neverending nightmare so, people tend to use things more based on location than an amenity like a shark tank. A person might purchase a car wash once to see the tank but, is likely to return to one located closer to home for regular washes. Besides that, there is no tie in between a shark tank and a car wash and the tank would likely be more of a distraction of folks wanting to see the tank than an attraction for car wash patrons. Your goal should be to get as many paying customers, in and out, as quickly as possible. Any community college Marketing 101 professor has a reel of awesome commercials that everybody loved that were pulled because they made more of a lasting impression than the products they touted, same thing here. Also, how would negative perceptions of your project affect business? The goal of advertising should be to create brand awareness and increase sales of existing and new customers, a shark tank at a car wash is just a gimmick that is more likely to produce financial ruin than a thriving business. I could go on and on but, you get the idea. Build your business on solid quality products and outstanding service instead of on the back of a Bull Shark.

[MRBONNETHEAD]

Well said.

[reffer69]

I agree totally, either change the shark or you will be in serious trouble. What would like nice thow is a nice display 6ft reef tank behind the counter! id bet that would look better than a suffering shark and anoyed costumers.

[Ali_Z]

Local carwashes get between 200 to 500 cars a day. Most people get their cars detailed which is anywhere beteen $10-$80. We are planning on spending around $5million for the lot, buildings, and machines, all in cash. The shark tank would only be an attraction that is mostly for me. I was going to build this behemoth at home but it is just to big to be in the home. That is why I chose it to be in the establishment to serve a dual purpose.

The issue of people overcrouding is to be avoided because people will have to pay to get in. A set time or fine will be put in place for customers. What I mean by that is once their car is ready the meter starts.

The sharks will all be juveniles when they are introduced into the aquarium. That can be anywhere between 2.5 to 4 feet. Transporting an eight foot shak is insane but it can and has been done.

Ali

[Jeffie]

Transporting an eight foot shak is insane but it can and has been done.

Ali [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes it is- check out http://www.dynastymarine.net/

Bull sharks and the like are handles by the proffesionals for a reason.

[LauraCline]

There is just no reasoning with some people, lol. Best of luck in your endeavors.

[reefnewbie54321]

No rebar ... I was planning to build a look down style pond that was inground so no rebar would be needed.

[Jeffie]

I really wish people could see these or for that fact any animals in the wild before they claim to say that these animals are happy.

[Ali_Z]

Happy, what is happy for a fish? Please explain? What I have concluded is that as long as the fish is eating and swimming then it is alive and "happy".

[wav3form]

Sounds like he just wants to brag about how much money he has or is going to spend.

[TTU_Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7580413#post7580413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jeffie
I really wish people could see these or for that fact any animals in the wild before they claim to say that these animals are happy.


THANK YOU....i love diving with sharks...they dont act like they do in tanks AT ALL....leave them in the ocean, please.

[thor32766]

wow what a thread to read

[whiteshark]

I think it would be sweet if you lined both sides of the carwash with a 11,000 gal reef tank (100ftx3ftx5ft) . As people are being pulled through the carwash they could see a beautiful reef on either side of them. The car wash could then serve a duel purpose, washing the cars and the front glass of the tank!

Seriously, don't confine any large sharks, especially ones with long ranges, to such a realitivly small tank. Maybe you could go for a 50 million gal. tank...

[crazyelece]

Just think what any amount of just one of those car cleaning chemicals could do to any tank around this type of business. If this type of tank is your goal and you have that kind of start up capital, why not just start or purchase a public aquarium and do it right?

[Ali_Z]

It takes A LOT of money, time, and skill to start and keep up a public aquarium. That is not the business my family wants to go into.

Thank you all for being somewhat civil,

Ali

[bluerug]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7580447#post7580447 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ali_Z
Happy, what is happy for a fish? Please explain? What I have concluded is that as long as the fish is eating and swimming then it is alive and "happy".
Wow you call that happy, well you could live in a closet and do fine but would you really be happy? I dont think so. So i pled to you think about the bull shark very carefully and dont get one. I think people would prefer to see schools of fish rather than one shark, so since you apparently have the money buy schools of exotic fish and put in fake corals all over the place and have a fake reef, less upkeep and imo looks close to being like the real thing. People would much prefer that, leave the bull sharks in the ocean unless you plan on having a much bigger of a tank, and i mean much bigger.

[Ali_Z]

How is 68,000g a closet? That is A LOT of water. An adult male bull shark gets 5 feet. These fish are big and sluggish until feeding time. The tank is 7 times longer than his adult body, 5 times wider and two times taller. Their are private collectiors who keep these guys alive in aquariums that are a fraction of the size of his one.

Please tell me how a fish can be happy? It is not a human being. However, regardless of it not being a human it deserves respect as a creature of God.

Thank you,

Ali

[billsreef]

Ok folks. Let's try and keep the personal barbs out of this and stick to good advice.

[billsreef]

That said,

For the sharks Ali is looking at, the smallest acceptable shark tank I've seen for those size (adult size must be considered) sharks is a 80,000 circular (rectangular tanks are bad for sharks) tank with a 40 foot diameter. That's alot of tank and some very thick and very expensive acrylic panels. You're looking at around a half million dollars just to build the tank, never mind stocking it and feeding the beasts. Figure on several hundred or more per month in feed and maintenance. Your inheritance will disapear in no time, unless that car wash nets an awefull lot of money. BTW the best business advice ever is location, location, location. In other words, your business will do far better if placed in a good location than if you pick a poor location just to have a shark tank. From a practical standpoint, you'd do much better picking a good location and working in a nice tank in the waiting room. If you must do sharks, go for smaller species like banded cat sharks and small rays. However, I think you'd do far better going with a large FOWLR display with some large fish like Angels, smaller species of Groupers, triggers, eels etc. It will look great, not be a real budget breaker (got think long term here) and work ;)

[maroonytunes]

AlI Z

Pm me, I might be able to help you

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7582314#post7582314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
That said,

For the sharks Ali is looking at, the smallest acceptable shark tank I've seen for those size (adult size must be considered) sharks is a 80,000 circular (rectangular tanks are bad for sharks) tank with a 40 foot diameter. That's alot of tank and some very thick and very expensive acrylic panels. You're looking at around a half million dollars just to build the tank, never mind stocking it and feeding the beasts. Figure on several hundred or more per month in feed and maintenance. Your inheritance will disapear in no time, unless that car wash nets an awefull lot of money. BTW the best business advice ever is location, location, location. In other words, your business will do far better if placed in a good location than if you pick a poor location just to have a shark tank. From a practical standpoint, you'd do much better picking a good location and working in a nice tank in the waiting room. If you must do sharks, go for smaller species like banded cat sharks and small rays. However, I think you'd do far better going with a large FOWLR display with some large fish like Angels, smaller species of Groupers, triggers, eels etc. It will look great, not be a real budget breaker (got think long term here) and work ;)


Thank you for the advice. I will definately look into it.

Thank you,

Ali

[bluerug]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7582314#post7582314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
That said,

For the sharks Ali is looking at, the smallest acceptable shark tank I've seen for those size (adult size must be considered) sharks is a 80,000 circular (rectangular tanks are bad for sharks) tank with a 40 foot diameter. That's alot of tank and some very thick and very expensive acrylic panels. You're looking at around a half million dollars just to build the tank, never mind stocking it and feeding the beasts. Figure on several hundred or more per month in feed and maintenance. Your inheritance will disapear in no time, unless that car wash nets an awefull lot of money. BTW the best business advice ever is location, location, location. In other words, your business will do far better if placed in a good location than if you pick a poor location just to have a shark tank. From a practical standpoint, you'd do much better picking a good location and working in a nice tank in the waiting room. If you must do sharks, go for smaller species like banded cat sharks and small rays. However, I think you'd do far better going with a large FOWLR display with some large fish like Angels, smaller species of Groupers, triggers, eels etc. It will look great, not be a real budget breaker (got think long term here) and work ;)
Could not agree more.

[MRBONNETHEAD]

WOW
You should not be getting a Bull Shark thinking that a male adult gets 5 feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have caught one in Florida 8 feet long and 200 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!
Theres 11 footers!!!!!!!!!!!

[bluerug]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7582214#post7582214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ali_Z
How is 68,000g a closet? That is A LOT of water. An adult male bull shark gets 5 feet. These fish are big and sluggish until feeding time. The tank is 7 times longer than his adult body, 5 times wider and two times taller. Their are private collectiors who keep these guys alive in aquariums that are a fraction of the size of his one.

Please tell me how a fish can be happy? It is not a human being. However, regardless of it not being a human it deserves respect as a creature of God.

Thank you,

Ali
Completely missed this, male bull shark max out at 5 ft.
http://www.conservationinstitute.org/ocean_change/predation/bullshark.htm

[ChickenCannoneer]

If you read the article the Bull shark max out at about 11.5 feet. They are not even sexually mature until they are 6.3 feet and the average is 7 feet. I guess maybe he got information from the wrong site, on the internet you can always find an answer that will make you happy, whether or not it is correct is a whole different story.

Tim

[bluerug]

At least he got one thing right they are sluggish until feeding time, but thanks for pointing out the main points of the article, you can trust the .org and .gov sites.

[Ali_Z]

Sorry, I was reffering to captive raised specimens. In the wild these fish burn a lot more calories than in the aquaria. Be that due to Temp., food, or space.

That is besides the point, what I was pointing out was that their is a lot of room.

Ali

[olivia640]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7582214#post7582214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ali_Z

Please tell me how a fish can be happy? It is not a human being. [/B]

If a primate can be happy why can't a fish?

[MRBONNETHEAD]

http://www.grimreefers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8131&st=0&#entry101511

Read the first post.
"I am on a tight budget" HA
Good luck with a 68k tank then.
This thread is officially a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Volitan_Lion_13]

well, this thread gave me some good laughs..the bottom line here..is if you ABSOLUTELY want bulls, you need a HUGE tank way bigger then your talking about...i think i speak for most of us here..please leave these sharks in the wild and look for more eye pleasing fish...people go for colors...angels, tangs, wrasses, etc. save yourself the stress and look into a big tanks with lots of color...

[sharklover]

The issue of happiness in sharks has been raised quite a bit on this thread. I'm curious as to what the members think when it comes to the fish in their own tank being happy. How do you personally judge and what are the criteria? I'll tell you what I think about it and you guys can bounce your own experiences and feelings about it back on the thread.
1)If a fish displays a natural, healthy color tone to its skin and is free of lesions, abrasions or any other unnatural discolorations.

2) If the animal displays a normal desire to feed and digests that food well enough to maintain body confirmation.

3) In the case of requiem sharks, if the shark maintains a normal swimming posture. (i.e. no tail dragging, wall hugging, swimming in tight circles or apparent loss of equilibrium or other eratic behaviour.)

4) If the fish does incur an injury, that injury heals in a timely manner appropriate to it's severity. Wounds that don't heal indicate other problems as well.

5) If the fish is growing in size(up to its max of course).

As far as sharks being imprisoned and unhappy as a result, I don't think one should apply human emotions to fish. The brain of a fish differs from humans and primates. If fish could feel imprisoned and become unhappy they would surely display it through a lack of normal behaviour as mentioned above. Obviously, they cannot vocalize unhappiness in ways we could understand, but other telltale signs would emerge to signal distress. My biggest concern for Ali's project is what he will do with the sharks when they become too large for him. Most public aquariums do not want bull sharks on display because they are so nasty. The shark is, however, an excellent aquarium fish in terms of how hardy it is and its willingness to feed.

[Confooseld]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7586299#post7586299 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by olivia640
If a primate can be happy why can't a fish?
A chimp has a brain around the size of your fist. Nemo's is smaller than a pea. Not a whole lot going on besides swim feed and mate. Happiness in fish is mostly human personification.

[predatorpassion]

hey I remember you. Sorry if any of this info has been said, I just read the first page and remembered the kid from waterwolves

I work at a safaris here. They have 27 big cats, all rescued, ranging from cougars, black leopards, tigers, lions and a liger named rocky who is 1,100 lbs. When we feed them they normally eat cut up 10 pound logs. That is a frozen block of meat. It contains everything there diet needs. Well most of the cats get around 5 lbs of meat a day. Okay well I have an alligator, I remember you wanting one. Alligators have an immense jaw pressure. Stronger then crocodiles because an alligators favored prey are turtles. They need the jaw pressure to crack their shells. Well you don't want to get on the wrong side of an alligator but their tails can snap your legs. A large alligator can weigh more then 500lbs. It takes A LOT of determination and "want" to care for these animals. I am getting a bobcat soon but you need a wildlife breeders permit since it is a native species. He isn't nearly as bad as a tiger but bobcats have been known to hunt down and kill deer. But a large cat (lion especially) have the strength in their forearm to knock over a 600 lb zebra. Big cats don't realize how strong they are. When they grow up with you they don't know they got bigger. So when they play the play rough. Kabuka our barbary lion is the nicest cat we have. He loves to roll on his back and get his belly rubbed. Well cats, alligators, and other things have days where they don't want to be messed with. What happens then? Like I said all of our cats are rescued from people who think they can keep them. Shami a golden-tabby tiger came from mike tysons trainor. But I noticed you like reptiles. Well I have a yellow anaconda. If you want those a nice one is almost unheard of my baby has tagged me several times. well better get her tame now and not have an aggresive adult anaconda. A large yellow or green anaconda can weigh 700 lbs. I also just recently got an asian water monitor well they are the longest of all lizards, longer then a komodo dragon but not larger. They can get well over 100lbs. and their claws can get 2inches maybe more. They can rip you up unintentionally (spelling?) but their teeth are like sharks teeth. triangular and serrated. But anyways I just don't want to see a headline where a spoiled rotten kid or whatever is eaten, mauled, attacked, etc. by a "pet" anything.

oh and by the way only the female bull sharks go upriver and that is to give birth to their babys. I believe that they (males) can go into freshwater just not real frequently. oops forgot about the zambezi and the uhhh geez I can't spell it but nicauragua. I think thats how you spell it

this is my .2 cents

[JRPhd]

"But anyways I just don't want to see a headline where a spoiled rotten kid or whatever is eaten, mauled, attacked, etc. by a "pet" anything. "

whoa, whoa, let's think about this for a minute.

[bluerug]

I knew it was a joke from the start, and have decided to leave this thread and not waste my finger typing unless there is something that i must comment on.lol:lol:

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7586590#post7586590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MRBONNETHEAD
http://www.grimreefers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8131&st=0&#entry101511

Read the first post.
"I am on a tight budget" HA
Good luck with a 68k tank then.
This thread is officially a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that I have already explained my position. My family is in a divorce, a nasty one at that. My father refuses to give my mom a divorce which causes us to rent a house. My father is demanding $17,000 per month plus more. The more me and my family spend the more we must give him. That is why I have already stated that this project is not for the immediate future but rather to be completed a few years later.


I don't need to explain myself but I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression from this thread.

Ali

[bluerug]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7579907#post7579907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ali_Z
Local carwashes get between 200 to 500 cars a day. Most people get their cars detailed which is anywhere beteen $10-$80. We are planning on spending around $5million for the lot, buildings, and machines, all in cash. The shark tank would only be an attraction that is mostly for me. I was going to build this behemoth at home but it is just to big to be in the home. That is why I chose it to be in the establishment to serve a dual purpose.

The issue of people overcrouding is to be avoided because people will have to pay to get in. A set time or fine will be put in place for customers. What I mean by that is once their car is ready the meter starts.

The sharks will all be juveniles when they are introduced into the aquarium. That can be anywhere between 2.5 to 4 feet. Transporting an eight foot shak is insane but it can and has been done.

Ali

Hmmmm........ doesnt sound like you are on a tight budget, 5 million cash means you have plenty more to throw around.

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

I told you you were going to get it.

[predatorpassion]

my bad, sorry not to be critical I do respect your passion for animals. but just recently a kid (20 yr old) was attacked by his alligator by showing off. I don't know you but he acted similar to you.

[Ali_Z]

I am older than you. Where is the respect? I thank you for your concern but please pm me your concerns. This thread is for the tank and fish.

Thank you,

Ali

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

I agree with most people on this thread that a bull is not a good idea and a tank that size is not a good business move but this is a forum to help with postive information. This is not a forum for you to mouth off and be rude. This should be about facts and personal expiearances not your grumppy thoughts! I think you would be more likly to convince him not to go with a bull if you were helpful with other positive suggestions besides being mean. JMO

[predatorpassion]

well to help. In my opinion graceful and peaceful looking sharks would be good. In my opionion the zebra shark is a beautiful graceful and good shark. Blacktip reef sharks could be do-able. And my favorite shark whitetip reef sharks might be more practical. Oh and bonnethead sharks are really cool. I love hammerheads. and that would be practical due to it being 3 feet long. but it would have to be a cylinder shaped tank because they are bad at rubbing their noses. The downside with sharks like bull sharks is that they are swimming most of the time but I have seen some rest but rest infrequently.

[Ali_Z]

zebras and black tips get around the same size (give or take a foot) as a male bull shark and swim non stop. Why is it that I can keep those but not the bull shark?

Btw, to answer an earlier question as to why the aquarium was so high, it is because I plan on keeping a scalloped hammerhead for a while. That species needs a lot of height as well as width and length.

[stykthyn]

zebras and black tips get around the same size (give or take a foot) as a male bull shark and swim non stop. Why is it that I can keep those but not the bull shark?

where are you reading this? a fully grown bull exceeds 10ft, I have seen some over 12. it is true that in many overfished areas you are lucky to see them over 7 feet due to lack of food, but if you give them an optimal environment where there is no competition(fish tank) there will be nothing to keep if from growing.

[predatorpassion]

well bulls like noted before are very aggressive and can't be kept with any other sharks besides lemons. But it is the sheer bulk of the bull shark. and blacktips are thinner sharks and get more around 70inches. Zebras can reach 11ft but average at 7ft. But white tip reef sharks get maxed out at 6.9ft in length. It is also that these listed sharks are "nicer" or more peaceful.

[Ali_Z]

I am pretty sure that they keep or have kept bulls with brown sharks in the Dallas Aquarium. Also, the LBC aquarium is planning on introducing their bull to their shark tank. Their are dealers on this board that keep bulls with other sharks( btr, bonnet).

[redboxer13]

This subject is the best....lol.
Car Wash Special (free frozen whole Tuna so you can feed the shark while you wait for for car to dry):)JK
Billsreef is right, a circular tank is a must.
Hey they have fresh water bullsharks if Nicaragua, in Lake Nicaragua. I just think people would be fasinated with any shark, not need to get a monster like this.
Heres an idea, Nurse sharks are nice, calm, get to a good size and you can swim with them in the tank and hand feed them. Now thats a show your customers would love.

[Ali_Z]

The problem with nurse and white tip reef shark is that they are very boring to the average joe when compared to a Bull.

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7594392#post7594392 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ali_Z
The problem with nurse and white tip reef shark is that they are very boring to the average joe when compared to a Bull.

The average Joe can not even tell the difference ;) Truly for them, any shark will do. It's only us hardcare fish people that could look in a tank full of different species of sharks and point each one out. IMO for a large shark display, the Sand Tigers are the most impressive looking. They have very toothy smiles (more so than any of the other mentioned species), a massive look, and are very passive for a shark.

[Ali_Z]

I agree about the sand tigers. They are however, agressive sharks that will devour bull sharks.

[billsreef]

Actually the bull's are far more aggressive than the sand tigers. The sand tiger's are one of the few sharks that you would just about have to hit in the nose to get them to bite you. The bull shark will bite you just because you are there ;) BTW the public aquarium local to me has a couple of bull's in their shark tank, along with sand tigers and several other species without any problems ;)

[Volitan_Lion_13]

i agree with billsreef people are going to see anything swimming in there and be attracted..you dont have to go over the top..i think a nurse shark or two would be awesome because you can hand feed...IMO you should look into Nurses if you are set on sharks..what about rays...do you like rays??

[predatorpassion]

well here in the jenks aquarium they originally had blacktip reef sharks with bulls but the blacktips all disappeared as if they removed them. But I think it should be fine if they are all well fed. Since I belong to omas (oklahoma marine aquarium society) we got to go behind the scenes and the filtration for an aquarium that size is just massive. the skimmers were like 15ft high.

[redboxer13]

Sand Tigers too aggresive, Heck try pulling a bullshark out of the water down here in South Florida....lol.
Worried about getting bit?
Guess ya gonna pay for someone to service the tank too.
Better yet, get SCUBA certified and do it yourself, that way you can get the full RUSH out of the whole experience.

Hey Billsreef, how big do you think that tank is where those sharks are in?

[billsreef]

redboxer13,

That tank with the mixed sharks is 120,000 gallons.

http://www.atlantismarineworld.com/amwcgi/exhibits/sharks.html

[puffer21]

I think most people here could try to be a little bit nicer. second i think that sharks any kind should be left in the ocean. They are big and they also like to have room to swim. I think it is like if you were in house the rest of your life how would you feel?

[Ironsheikh]

it worked for Pablo Escabar lol
anyway, this thread has gone on long enough I think -- the kid is gonna do what he wants anyway

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7596786#post7596786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ironsheikh
it worked for Pablo Escabar lol
anyway, this thread has gone on long enough I think -- the kid is gonna do what he wants anyway

Ha ha, that is funny.

[reffer69]

Ali_Z have you had any exp with fish before? sharks can and are very hard to keep alive. They need perfect water, and that is very hard with the way they eat. Poeple on this forum know what they are talking about so if your not goiong to take are advice then whats the point in askin. You have been told that Bulls wont work, so go and get a dif specie, or evn better just get a reef. Id rather see a beautiful reef aquarium then sick sharks.

[sharklover]

I see that many different members have made their opinions known about keeping sharks in captivity. I am curious as to how many of you actually have kept or attempted to keep sharks in captivity. Since we're talking about requiem sharks in this thread specifically let's stick to those species. If any of you have kept or are currently keeping these sharks let's hear your experiences so we can apply them to Ali's situation. Please don't relay what your friend kept or your internship at the local zoo or public aquarium. I want to hear from private individuals who funded and maintained sharks on their own. If you've actually tried keeping a bull shark I surely want to hear your story.

[Hunter21]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7596786#post7596786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ironsheikh
it worked for Pablo Escabar lol
anyway, this thread has gone on long enough I think -- the kid is gonna do what he wants anyway

I totally agree! He doesn't really care what anyone thinks, if he did, he'd say forget the bull and he'll stick to the smaller species for his sake and everyone else's! :mad:

Erin

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7599252#post7599252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hunter21
I totally agree! He doesn't really care what anyone thinks, if he did, he'd say forget the bull and he'll stick to the smaller species for his sake and everyone else's! :mad:

Erin

Their is a difference between caring and actually following.

[MRBONNETHEAD]

Also I have asked it before and now ill ask again.

What other sharks have you kept on your own as a private aquarium that you funded and maintained?

[redboxer13]

Well I haven't kept a shark, nor do I plan too. IMO they don't belong in aquariums to begin with. Once again I'm not bashing anyone, thats jusy my opinion. (But I'd be the first to say, Wow thats cool when I see them local aquariums).
But to sit here and read about Sharky's Car Wash is a trip.:)JK
Ali_Z, maybe you should start off with a smaller tank, at home. Since you don't plan to get start this buisness any time in the immediate future, it would give you some hands on experience. Maybe try something like MRBONNETHEAD has set up. I think Horn sharks are really beautiful, but Banded shark is nice too.
Either ways, Good Luck too you.

[Monkeyfish]

I think redboxer13 is onto something. Since this project is a few years down the road use the time you have to become more familiar with keeping sharks by actually doing so. Get a 500 gallon set-up in your home and try a few cat sharks.

[Lrgclasper]

I don't care if you keep a shark, but what are you doing on reef central asking folks here about species NO one has much experience keeping. Call Sea World or some other public aquarium- they can tell you what to expect.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7602797#post7602797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper
I don't care if you keep a shark, but what are you doing on reef central asking folks here about species NO one has much experience keeping. Call Sea World or some other public aquarium- they can tell you what to expect.

I have an it is amazing at how much more filtration I plan than they actually use at te LBC aquarium. I have spoken to many experts in the field. RC is a big website with knowledgeable people.

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7594728#post7594728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Actually the bull's are far more aggressive than the sand tigers. The sand tiger's are one of the few sharks that you would just about have to hit in the nose to get them to bite you. The bull shark will bite you just because you are there ;) BTW the public aquarium local to me has a couple of bull's in their shark tank, along with sand tigers and several other species without any problems ;)

Yes. This has been actually covered in great depth on TV after that one guy got his calf torn off by a bull shark on Discovery Channel. Bull sharks are known to be quite aggressive and territorial (in the wild). Also, if you look at dentition, you would see that the sand sharks are fish eaters, while bull's go for larger, varied prey...again, lending to their more aggressive tendencies.

I'm actually surprised a public aquarium can keep bulls with other sharks long term. I would have thought things would have gone the way of the young great white Monterey Bay had for a while....

[Ali_Z]

Actually their are people that keep these sharks for years w/ btr's and bonnet heads. At the LBC aquarium they keep a (4'?) female? in a circular quarentine tank tha can not be more than a few thousand gallons. It seems to be doing fine.

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7605191#post7605191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ali_Z
At the LBC aquarium they keep a (4'?) female? in a circular quarentine tank tha can not be more than a few thousand gallons. It seems to be doing fine.

Keep in mind that holding animals in quarantine tanks is a very temporary thing, not long term.

[Ali_Z]

They said that their bull was in quarentne for a few months and that they were growing it out so that it wouldn't be abused by the adult sand tigers.

[sharklover]

Actually, the bull at LB has been in that quarantine tank since Aug. 2004. It was put in the main shark lagoon display for a brief period but was removed quickly as the Sand Tigers took too much of an interest in her. So realistically speaking, the shark has been in the circ. quarantine tank for almost two years now.

[Ali_Z]

Hmm, now do you know how much it has grown since its introduction to the quarentine tank?

Btw, are the BTR's still in quarentine w/ the bull? I need to go down their soon and check it out for myself.

[Lrgclasper]

I love it when people cannot admit they don't have knowledge about an issue. There is a lot of knowledge on this site, but 99.9% of the people on here (including myself) know nothing about keeping large sharks. Man, go talk with the sea world folks if you want to do it right. You are going to need more than $200,000. Costs sky rocket once you get into large >40,000 gallon jobs, largely because of the site prep needed, not to mention the advanced concrete work, engineering, and little things like having enough room to get the shark transportation tank near the aquarium. I wonder how many pounds of food a shark like that would eat (how often do you feed it?), should you give it shots, do you need to weigh it a few times a year to check health (like they do at most public aquariums), what state permits are needed, how difficult is it to get them to acclimate, how are you going to clean the aquarium (scuba gear?), what are you going to do if your car was business fails (cannot simply move an aquarium that large... I have a million other issues I can think of. Best to think through these ahead of time.

[sharklover]

I did ask if anyone has kept any requiem sharks on here. I did not get any replies stating that someone did. I have kept them for the last twenty years. The longest I've kept one individual shark is three years. After that I end up having to sell them or give them to a public aquarium. The advice I give comes from personal experience or else I don't give it. I don't want to tell people you can or can't do something if I don't know what I'm talking about. This is how things get confusing and messed up leaving the person seeking the advice so discouraged they just drop the whole idea. Had I not been persistent when I was 16 I would have just given up the idea of keeping sharks and would have missed out on some of the best aquarium experiences of my life. Keeping sharks does not have to be difficult nor a hobby for just the super rich. If you know your limitations and you have a long term plan for placing the animals when they get too large you'll be OK. I've kept hundreds of sharks over my twenty years in the hobby and have lost relatively few. I've had my suicides, unexplained and explained deaths as any aquarist does. Fish keeping does not come with any guarantees of success. If Ali is serious he'll find a way to forge ahead regardless of what people tell him. In light of that, I think those of us with the knowledge to help him should. If we don't, he'll do it anyway and probably make some mistakes that we could have helped him avoid and thus probably kill some sharks in the process. I would rather educate this guy than bombard him with negativity because that will just backfire as he'll get the sharks anyway.

[sharklover]

Lrgclasper did ask an interesting question. What will you do if the carwash fails or if the tank must be moved/removed for any other unforseen reason? Please don't assume that you can just dump your sharks on LB. They may tell you that they'll take them now, but that could easily change if the quarantine facilities fill up or if there's a change in curator. Aquarium staff at high levels tend to move around so the guy in charge now (Perry) may no longer be there by the time the sharks get too large for you. A new curator may not want your bulls and then you have to try to pawn them off elsewhere. I don't think sea world s.d. will want them either. Just something to chew on.

[Lrgclasper]

why is there so much resistance against him talking to professionals? There is a bit of difference between the sharks most people keep and what he is talking about. Having worked in the public aquarium business, I can tell you that, for the most part, people that come crying to the public aquarium are generally rejected unless it is a rare animal or you have a special relationship with the aquarium. However, if you don't intend on keeping the animal for its entire lifespan, then arrangements are an option. That is not the path I would choose because I get attached to my pets as anyone would with a dog or cat. Although people seem to have no problem abandoning or "getting rid" of those animals either. This is more of a philosphical difference.

As for helping this guy, bringing up the issues I raised is all part of the game of raising sharks. It is important to think about all the problems ahead of time before diving in. And the tank he is thinking about will cost a bunch of money.. He is even looking at making sure the concrete floor can hold that much weight without cracking. Most concrete floors are not designed to hold that much weight. No way around that.

[sharklover]

As far as I know he has spoken to some public aquariums. I don't think he gets nearly as much time and attention from them as he does from this board as would be expected. According to Ali, he plans on building this aquarium a few years down the road. I'm sure that if he is serious he will cross the engineering bridge when he comes to it. Most of the consulting he has done has been with the Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific. I don't remember if he has talked with other public aquariums. I certainly don't want to convey that he shouldn't talk to public aquariums. I don't know how much time they would be willing to lend him an ear on this, though. He has emailed me privately in the past on this subject but continues to pursue it on the board as well. I don't know if my answers were not enough for him or if he is just seeking out other opinions.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7609779#post7609779 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sharklover
As far as I know he has spoken to some public aquariums. I don't think he gets nearly as much time and attention from them as he does from this board as would be expected. According to Ali, he plans on building this aquarium a few years down the road. I'm sure that if he is serious he will cross the engineering bridge when he comes to it. Most of the consulting he has done has been with the Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific. I don't remember if he has talked with other public aquariums. I certainly don't want to convey that he shouldn't talk to public aquariums. I don't know how much time they would be willing to lend him an ear on this, though. He has emailed me privately in the past on this subject but continues to pursue it on the board as well. I don't know if my answers were not enough for him or if he is just seeking out other opinions.

Hello Greg,

I apreciate all of your help and information. I am simply looking for more opinions from qualified professionals. I was under the impression that this board had a few.

I have talked to the Aquarium of the Pacific about it a couple times. They were quite helpful but I need more, a lot more. I wan't all that impressed w/ the LBC aquariums filtration & set up. I have talked to a lfs owner who is experienced in large set ups. He told me that my filtration tha I have planned is way overboard. That is what gets me confused. That is also the reason why I need more educated opinions on this topic.

Thank you,

btw, do you know of any websites or contacts where I can find the info I'm looking for?

Ali

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7611571#post7611571 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ali_Z
I have talked to a lfs owner who is experienced in large set ups. He told me that my filtration tha I have planned is way overboard.

Sharks are very different beast from most fish. Their water quality requirements are more finicky than your typical bony fish. Hence the filtration does indeed need to be massive. As such this definitely a project you need to spend some time researching and planning. From the perspective of someone that has spent quite a few years working in various LFS and having several friends working in public aquariums (including the guys that care for the shark exhibits ;) ) I would give more weight to the guys that are actually running multi thousand gallon shark exhibits than the LFS. If I was going to put together something like your planning I would visit my favorite Public Aquarium with a good supply of the aquarist's favorite beverage in hand and proceed to pick their brains ;)

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7611690#post7611690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Sharks are very different beast from most fish. Their water quality requirements are more finicky than your typical bony fish. Hence the filtration does indeed need to be massive. As such this definitely a project you need to spend some time researching and planning. From the perspective of someone that has spent quite a few years working in various LFS and having several friends working in public aquariums (including the guys that care for the shark exhibits ;) ) I would give more weight to the guys that are actually running multi thousand gallon shark exhibits than the LFS. If I was going to put together something like your planning I would visit my favorite Public Aquarium with a good supply of the aquarist's favorite beverage in hand and proceed to pick their brains ;)

I totally agree. I want to go to Monterey Bay aquarium this summer but it is just soooo far from so cal. :D I guess I will just volunteer at the LBC aquarium and ask the curator & the guy in charge of filtration( forgot his name) more questions.

Thanks,

Ali

[colby]

Wow...kind of dissapointing to see that so many people on her LAUGHED IN HIS FACE! I would think that a group of adults could be a little more courteious...

Even if you do disagree with Ali's opinon you owe him a fair explaination or the restraint to keep your mouth shut.

Rather than acting like a bunch of ignorant fools with nothing better to do than try and slam someone for DOING SOME RESEARCH we should thoughfully explain our opinions and the reasoning behind it...

As far as Bull Shark's and fresh water, there is in fact a population of fresh water bull sharks that became landlocked...not saying they should be kept in fresh water or captivity at all for that matter.

Ali I would suggest getting Scott Michaels book Sharks and Rays. He is a qualified professional.

Furthermore Ali I think it would be in everyone's best interest to choose a different specie of shark. Look into Black tips. These guys live on the reefs their entire lives making it possible to actually provide a natural like life in captivity. Bull sharks really do get to big for all but the largets public aquariums.

It is fun to dream but please remember your responsability as a steward of our planet. Sure we can slam a shark in a little box and throw some fish in there and it may live, for a while, but it will not be happy. Or we could put a lion in a pen in our bakyard, but it will live a life of torment. Although animals are not human they can be unhappy. Have you ever witnessed a pair of clownfish snuggling into their anemone at night right next to each other keeping an eye on their eggs or a mother lion caring for her cubs teaching them to hunt? That is happy. It is a far cry from a bored cat sitting on a concrete pad in isolation or a large shark swimming in monotenous circles with no stimulation what so ever.

If you do have the resources at your disposale to create such a large tank why not use them to help educate the public? Set up your large tank, fill it with tangs and cb clowns and other fish that can be sustainably harvested with as little environmental impact as possible. Why not make a little display explaining the plight of the worlds reefs and the impact wreckless harvesting is having? I GUARANTEE this is a worthy cause that will create much exitement. Afterall have you seen a little kids face when he sees a "Nemo" or a "Dory"? My little brother lights up every time. Sure you could impress some people by putting some sharks in ther but you will severly limit the appeal. Use you resources for good and set a good example for the public. Afterall wouldn't you much rather be responsible for inspiring some kids to make a difference by helping with the issue of reef destruction than inspiring someone to go put a shark in an undersized aquarium awaiting sure torment and death? Show them that they can by cb clowns that can be happy and thrive.

Ok enough from me...didn't mean to slam anyone, however he came to us with a question in good faith that we could give him advice and constructive critisism, not a brow beating....

Colby

[reffer69]

good post that, im KNOW pep would rather see a beautiful reef then suffering sharks! i know i would!

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7619176#post7619176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by colby
Wow...kind of dissapointing to see that so many people on her LAUGHED IN HIS FACE! I would think that a group of adults could be a little more courteious...

Even if you do disagree with Ali's opinon you owe him a fair explaination or the restraint to keep your mouth shut.

Rather than acting like a bunch of ignorant fools with nothing better to do than try and slam someone for DOING SOME RESEARCH we should thoughfully explain our opinions and the reasoning behind it...

As far as Bull Shark's and fresh water, there is in fact a population of fresh water bull sharks that became landlocked...not saying they should be kept in fresh water or captivity at all for that matter.

Ali I would suggest getting Scott Michaels book Sharks and Rays. He is a qualified professional.

Furthermore Ali I think it would be in everyone's best interest to choose a different specie of shark. Look into Black tips. These guys live on the reefs their entire lives making it possible to actually provide a natural like life in captivity. Bull sharks really do get to big for all but the largets public aquariums.

It is fun to dream but please remember your responsability as a steward of our planet. Sure we can slam a shark in a little box and throw some fish in there and it may live, for a while, but it will not be happy. Or we could put a lion in a pen in our bakyard, but it will live a life of torment. Although animals are not human they can be unhappy. Have you ever witnessed a pair of clownfish snuggling into their anemone at night right next to each other keeping an eye on their eggs or a mother lion caring for her cubs teaching them to hunt? That is happy. It is a far cry from a bored cat sitting on a concrete pad in isolation or a large shark swimming in monotenous circles with no stimulation what so ever.

If you do have the resources at your disposale to create such a large tank why not use them to help educate the public? Set up your large tank, fill it with tangs and cb clowns and other fish that can be sustainably harvested with as little environmental impact as possible. Why not make a little display explaining the plight of the worlds reefs and the impact wreckless harvesting is having? I GUARANTEE this is a worthy cause that will create much exitement. Afterall have you seen a little kids face when he sees a "Nemo" or a "Dory"? My little brother lights up every time. Sure you could impress some people by putting some sharks in ther but you will severly limit the appeal. Use you resources for good and set a good example for the public. Afterall wouldn't you much rather be responsible for inspiring some kids to make a difference by helping with the issue of reef destruction than inspiring someone to go put a shark in an undersized aquarium awaiting sure torment and death? Show them that they can by cb clowns that can be happy and thrive.

Ok enough from me...didn't mean to slam anyone, however he came to us with a question in good faith that we could give him advice and constructive critisism, not a brow beating....

Colby

Thank you for your post. I have already read many of Scott Michaels articles but have not yet read his book( I hear it is VERY informative).

I would love to raise awareness about how the "nemos" are collected from the wild. It is a terrible thing but it is not exactly what I had in mind. The shark tank fascinates all IMHO.

Thank you,

Ali

[colby]

I know sharks may seem really cool to alot of us here, but with the esception of your average pre teen to adult male (just stereotyping, forgive me if I have offended...)many people really are not interested in elasmobranches. However if you do fill a large tank with colorful fast moving fish such as tangs it will keep the little guys interested and by default the mothers. Think about it, it could be a real selling point for the mothers, ten minutes of peace while the kids watch the fish and the car is cleaned. If the mothers are attracted to te place, that is where your business will come from.


I know you really want sharks and I can't blame you, but take the advice given. Stay away from the bull sharks. You could probablly work something reasonable out in a tank that size with some fish and a few smaller sharks, say perhaps a tassled wobbegong or some bamboo sharks. Sure they aont look like jaws, but they will still basically act like bull shark, just sit on the floor and wait for feeding time. Consider it.

Colby

[Ali_Z]

I think that If I put a bamboo shark in a tank that size people would never be able to find it. Same thing with the wobbie. They survive in the wild by NOT moving and camoflauging.

One of the reasons why I want the shark tank in the carwash is because of publicity. If I do what you recommend, public awareness, it can raise a lot of publicity and bring an even larger amount of people. If I go w/ the shark tank(bulls) I could still pass it off as public awareness but run the possibilty of bad publicity( like by people from this site that know nothing about requeim sharks).

[Hunter21]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7619176#post7619176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by colby
Wow...kind of dissapointing to see that so many people on her LAUGHED IN HIS FACE! I would think that a group of adults could be a little more courteious...

Even if you do disagree with Ali's opinon you owe him a fair explaination or the restraint to keep your mouth shut.

Rather than acting like a bunch of ignorant fools with nothing better to do than try and slam someone for DOING SOME RESEARCH we should thoughfully explain our opinions and the reasoning behind it...

As far as Bull Shark's and fresh water, there is in fact a population of fresh water bull sharks that became landlocked...not saying they should be kept in fresh water or captivity at all for that matter.

Ali I would suggest getting Scott Michaels book Sharks and Rays. He is a qualified professional.

Furthermore Ali I think it would be in everyone's best interest to choose a different specie of shark. Look into Black tips. These guys live on the reefs their entire lives making it possible to actually provide a natural like life in captivity. Bull sharks really do get to big for all but the largets public aquariums.

It is fun to dream but please remember your responsability as a steward of our planet. Sure we can slam a shark in a little box and throw some fish in there and it may live, for a while, but it will not be happy. Or we could put a lion in a pen in our bakyard, but it will live a life of torment. Although animals are not human they can be unhappy. Have you ever witnessed a pair of clownfish snuggling into their anemone at night right next to each other keeping an eye on their eggs or a mother lion caring for her cubs teaching them to hunt? That is happy. It is a far cry from a bored cat sitting on a concrete pad in isolation or a large shark swimming in monotenous circles with no stimulation what so ever.

If you do have the resources at your disposale to create such a large tank why not use them to help educate the public? Set up your large tank, fill it with tangs and cb clowns and other fish that can be sustainably harvested with as little environmental impact as possible. Why not make a little display explaining the plight of the worlds reefs and the impact wreckless harvesting is having? I GUARANTEE this is a worthy cause that will create much exitement. Afterall have you seen a little kids face when he sees a "Nemo" or a "Dory"? My little brother lights up every time. Sure you could impress some people by putting some sharks in ther but you will severly limit the appeal. Use you resources for good and set a good example for the public. Afterall wouldn't you much rather be responsible for inspiring some kids to make a difference by helping with the issue of reef destruction than inspiring someone to go put a shark in an undersized aquarium awaiting sure torment and death? Show them that they can by cb clowns that can be happy and thrive.

Ok enough from me...didn't mean to slam anyone, however he came to us with a question in good faith that we could give him advice and constructive critisism, not a brow beating....

Colby

I do agree, we should be giving good advice instead of giving him a hard time, but we've gone through over 5 pages of trying to give advice and he still just wants to keep bull sharks in his tank, sorry but I just don't see any of this getting through to him. We've got an RC mod here trying to give good advice but it seems he still refuses to hear the same ole' answer, leave the bulls in the ocean and just build a giant reef! :(

Erin

[reffer69]

just a Q. why should we destroy the coral reef? think how much LR and fish hed be takeing away and corals, and wont be giving any back, wont we end up with an empty ocean if we keep takeing and takeing?

[jfw60]

I'm always pleased to see that there are as many people out there as passionate as I am about the natural world. I would like it if maybe Ali spent his money on going on dives to see sharks in the wild and pursued a degree in marinebiology, instead of a carwash. He writes well and its a shame that someone who could be the next Jaque Coustoe would spend his money washing other peoples cars.
I assure you if money were no concern I would spend the rest of my years studdying sharks and teaching the public about marine conservation. Good luck Ali, and take advantage of every opurtunity offerd to you.

[colby]

"One of the reasons why I want the shark tank in the carwash is because of publicity. If I do what you recommend, public awareness, it can raise a lot of publicity and bring an even larger amount of people. If I go w/ the shark tank(bulls) I could still pass it off as public awareness but run the possibilty of bad publicity( like by people from this site that know nothing about requeim sharks)."

Sorry I am afraid I don't fully grasp what you are saying here, are you stating that you do recognize that a reef style tank with cb fish and a positive message would indeed be better for you?

"just a Q. why should we destroy the coral reef? think how much LR and fish hed be takeing away and corals, and wont be giving any back, wont we end up with an empty ocean if we keep takeing and takeing?"

Sorry reffer69, I am not quite sure who you are asking or what exactly your question is. Yes if we do continue the haphazard destruction we will cause permanent damage, even more so than we have done already. The point I was trying to make is he could set up a large reef style tank with very minimal impact on the ocean. For example he could use "fake" rock and coral. He coulld also use fish like cb clowns or tangs and triggers collected responsibly from places like Hawaii. In addition to this he could put up a display talking about the importance of buying captive bred animals etc. Besides being environmentally concious he could create A TON of POSITIVE publicity that would only help his carwash.

Ali, yes I do realize that benthic sharks will not be as pleasing to the public, I was was just trying to offer a suggestion for an alternative. Although I am coming from a position of having never personally owned a shark I do think is is sage advice to avoid the Bull sharks. If you still insist on sharks (and I can't blame you..I think they are amazing...) why not llok into leopards or smooth hounds? They still have the classic jaws look and I would imagine that two or three would prosper in a tank of your size. The only downside I can forsee is that you will most likely need to chill the tank... Also again look into black tip reefs, to my understanding the "smaller variety" "only" reaches 6 feet, though more frequently it is something like males 5 and females 4.

Now with that said even though you may be able to fit these guys in and have them live, I urge you to consider the longterm. Have you ever seen a shark display that had sharks constantly swimming in circles bumping their fins against the tank to the point that they are red and infected? I have seen my fair share of this. Is this really what you want? Also sharks as cool as they are don;t really have a lifestyle that lends to interseting observation for more than a minute to all but the most dedicatedd elasmobranch enthusiast. They basically just swim around. Tangs and such on the other had will school and pick at rocks, have little heirarchy tiffs and in a tank of the size you are proposing may possibly mate. All of this behavior will result in a much more interesting tank for the public, therefore more money for you. Consider it.

Colby

[Lrgclasper]

Once again, slammed for the public aquarium research question. Monterey is a great source. If you really want to talk to someone in the know (and a closed system) I would talk with John Rupp at the Point Defiance Aquarium in Tacoma, WA or Jeff Christisian at the Seattle Aquarium. Both these guy are geat references. I also recommend you look for the book "Elasmobranch Husbandary Manual: Captive Care of Sharks, Rays, and their Relatives." by Smith et al. It is a MUCH better book than Scott M. book, which really doesn't provide much useful information on large systems, tank construction, and general care. The forward to the book is written by Eugene Clark (Mote Marine Lab) and edited by several folks from the Center for Shark Research, and the book has contributions from several public aquaria. Scott Michaels book really isn't useful except for the people just starting out with sharks and general info. The book is considered primary peer reviewed literature.

[Lrgclasper]

Colby, there is one flaw in your logic about
"just a Q. why should we destroy the coral reef? think how much LR and fish hed be takeing away and corals, and wont be giving any back"

Certain species are OK because they are sustainably harvested. Granted, I think the industry as a whole is WAY behind on forcing developing countries to increase regulation on commercial (including aquaria harvesting) to be sustainable and precautious in accordance with the stock information available. The sad part is many of these countries sell their resource to developed countries for very low prices. The developed countries then go in an rape the resource. One has to look no further than the West Coast of Africa or certain coastal zones of Mexico for an example.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7621817#post7621817 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by colby
"One of the reasons why I want the shark tank in the carwash is because of publicity. If I do what you recommend, public awareness, it can raise a lot of publicity and bring an even larger amount of people. If I go w/ the shark tank(bulls) I could still pass it off as public awareness but run the possibilty of bad publicity( like by people from this site that know nothing about requeim sharks)."

Sorry I am afraid I don't fully grasp what you are saying here, are you stating that you do recognize that a reef style tank with cb fish and a positive message would indeed be better for you?

"just a Q. why should we destroy the coral reef? think how much LR and fish hed be takeing away and corals, and wont be giving any back, wont we end up with an empty ocean if we keep takeing and takeing?"

Sorry reffer69, I am not quite sure who you are asking or what exactly your question is. Yes if we do continue the haphazard destruction we will cause permanent damage, even more so than we have done already. The point I was trying to make is he could set up a large reef style tank with very minimal impact on the ocean. For example he could use "fake" rock and coral. He coulld also use fish like cb clowns or tangs and triggers collected responsibly from places like Hawaii. In addition to this he could put up a display talking about the importance of buying captive bred animals etc. Besides being environmentally concious he could create A TON of POSITIVE publicity that would only help his carwash.

Ali, yes I do realize that benthic sharks will not be as pleasing to the public, I was was just trying to offer a suggestion for an alternative. Although I am coming from a position of having never personally owned a shark I do think is is sage advice to avoid the Bull sharks. If you still insist on sharks (and I can't blame you..I think they are amazing...) why not llok into leopards or smooth hounds? They still have the classic jaws look and I would imagine that two or three would prosper in a tank of your size. The only downside I can forsee is that you will most likely need to chill the tank... Also again look into black tip reefs, to my understanding the "smaller variety" "only" reaches 6 feet, though more frequently it is something like males 5 and females 4.

Now with that said even though you may be able to fit these guys in and have them live, I urge you to consider the longterm. Have you ever seen a shark display that had sharks constantly swimming in circles bumping their fins against the tank to the point that they are red and infected? I have seen my fair share of this. Is this really what you want? Also sharks as cool as they are don;t really have a lifestyle that lends to interseting observation for more than a minute to all but the most dedicatedd elasmobranch enthusiast. They basically just swim around. Tangs and such on the other had will school and pick at rocks, have little heirarchy tiffs and in a tank of the size you are proposing may possibly mate. All of this behavior will result in a much more interesting tank for the public, therefore more money for you. Consider it.

Colby

Small 180-480g Reef tanks take a lot of work, just imagine how much work it takes to run a 68,000g Reef. I honestly do not think that I can afford the up keep of a tank like that. What sort of lighting would you use and how much would it be per month?

A shark tank is expensive but you have MUCH less to worry about IMO, because their is a limited number of inhabitants which makes inspection and maintence easier.

Btw, males are usually smaller than females. Usually, but not always.

Lrgclasper,

I will definately look into having the library getting me that book, thanks.

Well guess what, I just found out that I am going to Tahiti in July. This will be an excellent chance for me to study the black tip reef shark in its natural setting and then compare their behavior to aquarium btr's. Does anyone know where to get a good underwater camera or video camera? Does costco carry them?

Thanks,

Ali

[colby]

Lrgclasper,

Please go back and re-read. You quoted me as saying something I did not. In fact I myself was trying to understand what exactly reffer69 was saying...and fwiw I feel the same as you on the situation, hence my suggestion to buy cb AND species caught responsably, for example yellow tangs from Hawaii.

"Once again, slammed for the public aquarium research question. Monterey is a great source. "

Indeed Monterey Aquarium is an excellent source. In fact I have been aquainted with Dr. Webster (Senior Marine Biologis and co-founder with Ms.Packard...) and have been on several behind the scenes tours, and let me tell you the filtration systems on those tanks are increadible. The one on the 1.3 million gallon outer bay is just phenomenal...

Ali, I think you misread/misunderstood my post. I said use FAKE corals, such as the ones used in many public aquaria. No extra filtration or lighting is necessary for this.

Colby

[Lrgclasper]

colby, that was my quote about montery. I quoted you saying: "just a Q. why should we destroy the coral reef? think how much LR and fish hed be takeing away and corals, and wont be giving any back"

[colby]

Again I say GO BACK AND READ. You are still quoting me as saying something I did not. I was QUOTING reffer69, hence the QUOTATION MARKS.

Colby

[reffer69]

i said that.

[Lrgclasper]

Got ya.. Sorry bout that and no need to yell.

[colby]

Lol sorry if I came off like ans a**. I was just trying to be clear. :)

Colby

[reffer69]

any update on the large cats?

[beakfreak]

hey just decided to apologize again about earlier. Well our private life is not going to well. Don't want to go into detail. Really though good luck on your project. Have you ever thought about having a school of barracuda in your aquarium? that would be really neat.

[predatorpassion]

oops sorry that was me above but was my brothers account.

[redboxer13]

Hey why not just get a Killer whale. Then throw a few seals and penguins in for bait. That will get the publics attention and the car wash will be a hit....lol

[maroonytunes]

Ali Z PM me

[reffer69]

"Hey why not just get a Killer whale. Then throw a few seals and penguins in for bait. That will get the publics attention and the car wash will be a hit....lol"

Nah thats not on, be nice to him. You nead to say why you think that. I know his idea is a little wacky and he will not listion, but year these are magical creatures, and he should talk him out of it.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7635808#post7635808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reffer69
any update on the large cats?

I actually went to the vet the other day and found out that he was treating MANY big cats, several of them from the family Felidae, which are lions, tigers, and panthers. He told me that these people live around the clinic which baffled me since I know that you are not allowed to keep these animals within city limits. He gave me some #'s and I will definately look into it now that I know it is possible.

Also, he told me that he was an inspector that checked out the cages and issued permits. :)

[predatorpassion]

oh ali-z I am getting a bobcat soon (tried a caracal but am not going to spend 3 grand right now) but try exoticcatz.com they should have some good info. That is where I found my info.

[Raul-7]

Why not keep a large shoal of Red Bellied Piranha? Keep them starving for a week, throw in the bait and the people would be in awe at the frenzy. I know I would if it was a shoal of 12 or more.

Or what about a shoal of Baracuda?

Fish that shoal are more interesting than solitary fish.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7664800#post7664800 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by predatorpassion
oh ali-z I am getting a bobcat soon (tried a caracal but am not going to spend 3 grand right now) but try exoticcatz.com they should have some good info. That is where I found my info.

That is going to be fun. Caracals are cool cats with crazy ears. :D

[predatorpassion]

oh thanks. Eventually I will probably be getting a caracal. But when I do get him (bobcat) I will post pics.

[matthew112687]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7635890#post7635890 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beakfreak
hey just decided to apologize again about earlier. Well our private life is not going to well. Don't want to go into detail. Really though good luck on your project. Have you ever thought about having a school of barracuda in your aquarium? that would be really neat.

I agree with beakfreak, barracudas would be cool.

If I were going to get my car wash I rather see a school of barracuda then one bull. Maybe you should look into that. I couldnt imagine the time it would take to maintain a shark of that size. I live near Tampa, FL, and there are sharks everywhere here and most of the time there are shark attacks its usually bulls. Im not bashing your idea, I think its awesome you thought of this, but you should probably leave them in the wild. As a few other people said they are unpredictable, but whatever you decide to do make sure you post pictures, because I want to see this.

Good luck Ali.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7688641#post7688641 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by matthew112687
I agree with beakfreak, barracudas would be cool.

If I were going to get my car wash I rather see a school of barracuda then one bull. Maybe you should look into that. I couldnt imagine the time it would take to maintain a shark of that size. I live near Tampa, FL, and there are sharks everywhere here and most of the time there are shark attacks its usually bulls. Im not bashing your idea, I think its awesome you thought of this, but you should probably leave them in the wild. As a few other people said they are unpredictable, but whatever you decide to do make sure you post pictures, because I want to see this.

Good luck Ali.

Barracuda are great but not what I am looking for. The bull is sluggish but thick. The brracuda is super fast and thin. I just feel that a "shark" is what the people want. The Bull could be a celebrity and have his own name and profile. :D

I was at a carwash this morning and observed the scene. My car, CL 500 w/ mad crazy rims, is pretty difficult to wash. I repeatedly told the people to wash it good and in the end they did not. I would have normally gotten mad but they had complimentary shoe shiner's and other amenities. What I concluded from that is that as long as you make the customer happy then you will have business, no matter if your service is bad. That is what I found from it. If this is so, then a bull shark aquarium would be the ultimate amenitie.

predatorpassion,

Sometimes I wish I lived in some other state like Oregon. But then I look around and see that living in L.A. is where it is at no matter how bogus some laws are like Exotics, Guns, and taxes.

[techigirl78]

Ali - I don't know much about sharks, but do agree if the purpose is to attract people, any shark would do and a FO with lots of bright fast moving fish would probably be a better bet.

I do have hybrid exotic cats, however. At this time I have bengals and am looking into getting a Savannah kitten in the near future. There is also a jungle cat available. They are absolutely wonderful and everyone who sees them falls in love with them. You can play with them and walk them on leashes, but they don't have the common pitfalls of large exotics. I.E. don't tyically need a license, can feed regular cat food, keep around other pets, house in your home, etc. Just thought I throw it out there if you weren't aware of these breeds of cats. Also the hybrid cats can be more expensive upfront (i.e. $10000 for a F1 Savannah), but much more maintable long-term and much easier to trust around people.

[Ali_Z]

F1 savannah's are expensive. I have never really looked into the legal requirements for the smaller cats( ocelot, serval, savannah's) but I hear that they can be very tempermental. In California no exotic animal can be kept as a pet. :(

[techigirl78]

Well, if you think a serval is tempermental, what about the lion or tiger you mentioned? All wild animals are tempermental. Hybrids, like bengals and savannahs, contain both wild and domestic bloodlines. They are less tempermental and typically no special license is needed, although I'm not sure about California. Petfinder lists bengals in california, so if the humane societies are doing it, I assume it is legal: http://search.petfinder.com/search/search.cgi?offset=1&zone=4&limit=25&zip=90001&breed=bengal&animal=Cat&tmpl=1&lat=33.9734&long=-118.2476&preview=1

There is also a ton of Savannah breeders in California as well: http://www.savannahcat.com/public/index.php

Chausies also have a resemblence to a caracal: http://www.junglemtnexotics.com/chausies.htm

[Ali_Z]

I have heard that when the female cats go into heat they will go insane and urinate everywhere. I don't plan to keep a big cat in my house. :D I don't even want to touch the cat when it gets to a year old. Like you said, all wild animals are tempermental. I would not even risk it. The only way to keep wild animals in Cali is to have a breeder's license, exhibition license, sanctuary, or have an AZA license.

[Raul-7]

I'm not sure how a Bull Shark is going to be a star, unless he can jump through loops or entertain people not may people are going to take interest. Maybe your better off with a bunch of the smaller species dolphin - that should put on a show and keep people coming back.

The Bull Shark, how's he going to keep people coming back - going around in circles isn't very interesting. Unless you setup a feeding frenzy not many people will take interest. How about 5 Blacktips, that can put on a show - throw in some bait and watch them go.

But seriously, I've seen sharks at the aquarium - I actually enjoyed watching the seals and dophins MUCH more. Especially since you can actually interact with them, put your finger on the glass pane and the seal or dolphin are going to take interest. A shark couldn't care less, they are boring to watch due to the fact that they aren't social and are usually solitary animals (they only interact during feeding).

Or even better, customer interaction with the animals is always a winner - whether it be bat rays or dolphins.

This is just my honest opinion. I know how mcuh you want to own a shark, but it's not going to gaurantee success at the car wash.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7698875#post7698875 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Raul-7
I'm not sure how a Bull Shark is going to be a star, unless he can jump through loops or entertain people not may people are going to take interest. Maybe your better off with a bunch of the smaller species dolphin - that should put on a show and keep people coming back.

The Bull Shark, how's he going to keep people coming back - going around in circles isn't very interesting. Unless you setup a feeding frenzy not many people will take interest. How about 5 Blacktips, that can put on a show - throw in some bait and watch them go.

But seriously, I've seen sharks at the aquarium - I actually enjoyed watching the seals and dophins MUCH more. Especially since you can actually interact with them, put your finger on the glass pane and the seal or dolphin are going to take interest. A shark couldn't care less, they are boring to watch due to the fact that they aren't social and are usually solitary animals (they only interact during feeding).

Or even better, customer interaction with the animals is always a winner - whether it be bat rays or dolphins.

This is just my honest opinion. I know how mcuh you want to own a shark, but it's not going to gaurantee success at the car wash.

Your points have some validity. The fact is that a Bull Shark is an apex predator. What is more facsinating than that? People love to see things that are dangerous from a safe distance. It gives some people a sense of accomplishment. :D

I understand what you are saying though. ;)

Thank you,

Ali

[sharklover]

Don't be so quick to dismiss the attractiveness of captive sharks. Many public aquariums do surveys of guests and the shark exhibits are right up there on top or in a close second. I have personally witnessed ridiculous herds of people show up to fish stores that have shark tanks and scheduled shark feedings. Even pathetic shark displays draw big crowds.

[Ali_Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7700374#post7700374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sharklover
Don't be so quick to dismiss the attractiveness of captive sharks. Many public aquariums do surveys of guests and the shark exhibits are right up there on top or in a close second. I have personally witnessed ridiculous herds of people show up to fish stores that have shark tanks and scheduled shark feedings. Even pathetic shark displays draw big crowds.

That is so true. I went to LV last weekend and visited the Mandalay Bay Aquarium. I talked to a few people their and they said that they might be making a new aquarium that will house bulls. :) That is pretty intresting in regards to the amount of people the sharks bring in. However, their is not one display in the entire exhibit housing a single fish specimen.