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View Full Version : I want to scrub my fish with a luffa sponge...


COreefer
06/21/2006, 01:03 PM
Man I picked up a pair of bicinctus clowns recently from on online retailer. Unfortunately I didn't QT them and now half my tank has been struck by cryptocarren irritans. I know it was the clowns because they had it the day after IU aded them, but healed quickly...I have had minor issues with ich in the past but for some fish this one is pretty bad. All of the fish are eating and so forth, but a couple look terrible. I ramped up the ozone and Eric loaned me his UV sterelizer...

36 hrs after hooking up the UV things are no better, but they are no worse either. Everytime I look at these fish they make me ich. I just want to scrub the ich spots off of them. I know there isn't much I can do but keep up the water parameters, use garlic, UV, and ozone, and pray they pull through it.

Anyone have any positive stories to hang my hat on???

racer69
06/21/2006, 01:20 PM
Sorry Eric, but I don't have any great stories on ick. However, I wouldn't recommend scrubbing them down haha. I have had some success with a hippo tang that was almost dead, and a blue velvet damsel,using a fresh water dip. They both recovered, and seemed to develop a better immunity to it.

calvin415
06/21/2006, 03:14 PM
Sorry to hear that Eric, but I've had good luck with ich just using cleaner shrimp and garlic. Just keep it up and let it run it's course... If the fish can hang in there any free floaters should be vaporized between the Ozone and UV. What method of Garlic are you using?

Joe69
06/21/2006, 03:52 PM
I've used freshly cut and mashed ginger in the past and it worked on 2 percs in my nano. Can't prove it was the ginger, but the ich was gone in a week and never came back. No adverse effects on my corals or inverts either. Might be worth a try.

COreefer
06/21/2006, 04:39 PM
Joe, I just read an article about using ginger...I may give it a try. Did you feed it directly to the fish or did you soak the food in it?

Eric, the garlic is seachem garlic guard. I also have some form 2 with garlic in it. I basically just soak the food in the garlic for 10-15 minutes then feed.

Thanks guys...I've had mild outbreaks in the past and it generally clears up in a couple of days...hopefully these fish can fight through it.

Crit21
06/21/2006, 04:42 PM
If you can trap and remove the infested fish, a FW dip works very well at removing what's already on them, but you still need to kill what's in the tank. If I remember right, I used a 1.010 SG FW dip for 1-3 minutes.

I had considerable success last year with a combination of garlic, cleaner shrimp and neon gobies (can't seem to find any neons lately). The neons were excellent at removing the parasites on the fish, while the garlic did a good job of keeping them off. I think the food additives may have worked to give the fish increased resistance. I also added about a tsp. of garlic water to the tank. Regardless, within a few days it was all gone and hasn't been back, even after adding stress to the tank (new fish, lighting change, moving the LR, etc.).

I used the water from a jar of minced garlic and Selcon as part of the blender based preparation -- sushi nori, cooked shrimp, scallops, squid, Formula 1 and 2 -- that I mixed and froze in a ziplok bag laid flat before cutting it into cubes for easy feeding. I toss a cube in each day and the fish literally leap at it.

The neons are very active cleaners, even cleaning my hand when it was in the water.

I've read that 5-Nitroimidazoles (a hot pepper extract) is in most ich treatments, which are so expensive it's ridiculous. Look under the lid of the 5-N preparations and you'll see the red pepper oil floating on the top. A half tsp. of tabasco or a few drops of Dave's Insanity Sauce has the same effect as any 5-N preparation (tabasco is just hot red peppers, vinegar and salt). 5-N either irritates the ich so they fall off, or irritates the fish's skin to increase slime production, or both. I used it once long ago for a tang that got a bad case of ich in a day. The treatment noticeably reduced the number of parasites within an hour, but they came back the next day. I wouldn't call it very effective on its own, but it could reduce the parasite numbers on the fish to give you time for the other treatments to start working.

Crit21
06/21/2006, 04:53 PM
Hmm, garlic, ginger, hot sauce and fish sounds like cajun seafood.

COreefer
06/21/2006, 04:56 PM
Thanks Dan...getting the trophonts to fall off the fish is my first objective, I may try some tabasco. Then hopefully the UV and Ozone will take over, althought he research is skepitcal of whether ozone or UV have much of an effect on cryptocarren irritans...

I really don't want to remove the fish either and add undue stress upon them.

When its all said and done perhaps I'll use a little ginger, a little garlic, a little tabasco, some skunk eye and hair of the weasel.... :)

Oh and I can't forget the shaman to administer the concoction otherwise it won't work.

Crit21
06/21/2006, 05:01 PM
But here's a review by Steven Pro (reefkeeping.com) of all known ich treatment methods. The author is critical of the ginger method as being unscientific, but he doesn't say that it doesn't work. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

Joe69
06/21/2006, 05:16 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7603318#post7603318 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
Joe, I just read an article about using ginger...I may give it a try. Did you feed it directly to the fish or did you soak the food in it?

I cut it and mashed it up, then I shaved off slices of a formula 1 cube and mashed that into the mix. I took out the bigger pieces of ginger and left the small ones and fed that way. I felt like I was making a gourmet meal. I did this for about a week. The clowns would eat the tiniest pieces of ginger but the larger pieces they would spit out.

To be completely honest, I do not think this is what made the ich go away. I think they fought it off on their own, but the ginger did not hurt any other livestock or water parameters, so it couldn't hurt to try it.

COreefer
06/21/2006, 08:22 PM
I just picked up some minced ginger...I'm going in with my rubber gloves on!! :eek2:

Crit21
06/21/2006, 09:49 PM
Oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

racer69
06/28/2006, 07:37 AM
Eric, have you seen anymore signs of ick on any of your fishes?

COreefer
06/28/2006, 01:28 PM
Todd, there are afew signs on my longnose BF but the other fish seem ok...of course I haven't used that concoction to supplement their food because of the effect it had on my tank. Most likely it was the tabasco that negatively affected my tank.

Crit21
06/28/2006, 02:03 PM
It sure seems to have worked in the short term. I imagine the ozone will do the rest. Other than the clam getting irritated by the hot sauce, what other negative effects did you notice?

COreefer
06/28/2006, 02:43 PM
many effects on my corals...lack of polyp extension is the most notable...I wouldn't suggest anyone use this in a reef tank, that is for sure.

racer69
06/28/2006, 03:29 PM
I think I am going to try the ginger, I have always noticed a little bit on my Powder Blue and think he would be happier with no extra baggage.

Crit21
06/28/2006, 03:34 PM
If it caused so much discomfort to the clam and corals, it probably kicked the ich's butt. Hmm...kick ich... Well, at least the cure wasn't worse than the disease. Sure glad you don't stock Dave's Insanity Sauce!

BTW, I've been using blender mix with Selcon and garlic water for over a year. The fish fight over it, and you've seen how well the SPS are doing.

COreefer
06/28/2006, 04:50 PM
Go for it Todd!!! And for giggles try a drop of tabasco. :)

rekn
06/28/2006, 05:13 PM
ihad the same problem and talked to todd at neptunes realm, he gave me a metal free liquid product and it worked wonders. knocks ick right out.

Crit21
06/28/2006, 07:59 PM
Todd, how do you know it's ich and not another parasite?

D-Rod
06/28/2006, 08:11 PM
Crit21
How big are the frozen cubes after you cut them?

Thanks

On my Jar of chopped garlic (Christopher Ranch) it also contains Soybean oil, olive oil & citric acid will these other ingredients do any harm?
This is the same stuff that you get in jars in the produce section!

D-Rod

Crit21
06/28/2006, 08:19 PM
About the size of a sugar cube. I alternate days with Formula 1 or 2.
I wouldn't use anything with oil in it. It could affect the foam production in the skimmer and make a film on the water that could affect oxygenation. I used Gilroy Farms minced garlic. It's garlic, water and citric acid. Better yet, crush a clove and soak it in a little water in the fridge for a few days. Use just a few drops of the water for the whole batch when you make the frozen food.

COreefer
06/28/2006, 09:32 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7648510#post7648510 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Crit21
Todd, how do you know it's ich and not another parasite?

If it was another parasite the chances are the fish would be dead at this point...cryptocarren irritans (ich) is the least lethal of the group.

Crit21
06/28/2006, 10:51 PM
BTW D-rod, citric acid is used in a number of reef foods. I have phyto preserved in citric acid.

D-Rod
06/28/2006, 11:02 PM
Thanks
:thumbsup:

Crit21
07/03/2006, 03:57 PM
No updates, so I'm assuming the "garden mix" did the trick?

COreefer
07/03/2006, 04:05 PM
your suggestion of tabasco killed my squamosa clam.

murfman
07/03/2006, 04:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7675147#post7675147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
your suggestion of tabasco killed my squamosa clam.

That sux, Man, sorry to hear about it. Let me know if you want a Squammy, I might be persuaded to let mine (used to be yours) go.

Crit21
07/03/2006, 05:28 PM
Sorry to hear about the clam, but I can't believe 2 drops would cause that kind of damage. Unless clams are super sensitive, you'd have to add much more than 2 drops to a 120 to cause more than minor irritation. I've added much, much harsher things with zero effects on pods, shrimp, clam, fish, softies, etc. Could it possibly have been the ozone, garlic or ginger?

COreefer
07/03/2006, 05:29 PM
How much persuading would it take Murf??

I loved that clam, it attacked me in the middle of the night.

COreefer
07/03/2006, 05:31 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7675592#post7675592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Crit21
Or the garlic? Ginger? Ozone? How can you tell?

dude I feed the garlic regularly, use ozone consistently and had used the ginger before the tabasco with no problemo. It was the tabasco with out a doubt.

Crit21
07/03/2006, 05:40 PM
If I had known that tridacna clams were so sensitive and made the connection that you had one in your tank I'd have said something.

murfman
07/03/2006, 06:19 PM
Eric, PM sent

Crit21
07/03/2006, 06:25 PM
I'm surprised that 2 drops did it, but if you're convinced (no lab test necessary), then I'll give you one of mine next week. Not kidding.

COreefer
07/03/2006, 08:35 PM
Naw Dan, don't sweat it man...I'm convinced it was the tabasco but it was my own fault for putting it in there.

Crit21
07/03/2006, 08:37 PM
When you see them you may change your mind. 2 crocea and one maxima.

ZenMan
08/08/2006, 11:07 PM
COReefer,

Did your ich go away?

I just finished setting up my 225 and picked up a purple tang from someone getting out of the hobby. Three days after putting the Tang in the tank he has ich and has given it to my Naso Tang. My Yellow appears to be ich free at the moment. I just hooked up my ozone.

So I should start feeding foods with garlic, and possibly ginger? Anything else you did? I'm going to pass on the tobasco. I have 13 fish and there is no way to catch them all and move them to hyposalinity QT for 6 weeks.

Care to loan me your luffa sponge? My Purple could sure use a good scrubbing.

Thanks.

Jeff

murfman
08/09/2006, 12:14 AM
Just don't do the hot sauce trick!:p

COreefer
08/09/2006, 12:59 AM
Chances are the ich was already present with the other fish or dormant in your system. I'd just let it run its course and feed nutritious foods with selcon and garlic. Give the ginger a shot but don't count on it in the end. Good water quality and low stress levels seem to be the most effective. Eventually te fish will adapt to its new surroundings and will fight it off.

Good luck!

rekn
08/09/2006, 06:54 AM
tod at neptunes has a product called no ich. its in a green bottle, totally reef safe and works wonders.

all fish have ich dormant in their system

rekn
08/12/2006, 10:45 AM
im planning on going to the meeting, i just spilled the rest of the bottle of the noich so ill bring it to the meeting. this is the shiz when it comes to getting rid of ich and its invert safe too!